3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
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reasonabledoubt
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby reasonabledoubt » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:43 pm

kedom wrote:Hi, I've been an Army officer for three years, deployed to Afghanistan. University of Georgia undergrad. Any idea on chances at t14? I'm thinking HYS is obviously out....


That's quite an LSAT - where did you find the time to prepare? I have a few friends who got back from Iraq a while back and it seemed like it took a good year before they were even able to function again.

Alexandria
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Alexandria » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:09 pm

Definitely apply to any school you'd like to go to, whether or not your chances are great. I had numbers similar to yours, and while I'm very happy with how my law school experience (at Michigan) has been, in retrospect I think it was dumb not to try for Y and S just to save a few bucks.

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kalvano
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby kalvano » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:41 pm

I wouldn't ED anywhere, since at least a few of the T14 will bite without it, and he could potentially lose a lot of $$$.

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby reasonabledoubt » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:55 pm

This has high flame potential. 2 posts. 175 LSAT right after middle east deployment. No responses. From personal experience involving friends with similar stories I'm qualified in calling this..... interesting.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby BigFatPanda » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:04 pm

im_blue wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:It's possible Yale might take you with a really solid PS, they seem a little less number-obsessed than Harvard, so I'd throw them an app too. If you really wanna make sure you get into a great school you can ED to Columbia or Chicago, but that might not be recommended 'cause then you can't go to Yale if they do accept you.


I'm going to strongly disagree with having any shot at Yale. The lowest GPA in the entire class last year was a 3.5, which is almost certainly a URM with much stronger softs than military experience. Similarly, Harvard and Stanford almost never take non-URM GPAs below 3.5-3.6, regardless of softs. The military soft gets a boost, but nothing close to the URM boost.

I would approach applying to T14 as if the numbers were something like 3.4/175, so ED to NYU or UVA would be my recommendation.


Maybe Kedon won the Distinguished Service Cross, which would pretty much overcome any great softs a URM could offer.

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johnstuartmill
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby johnstuartmill » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:16 pm

Stanford's GPA low last year was something like a 3.15. I don't see why they wouldn't strongly consider an applicant with great softs and an LSAT above their 75th percentile, so long as they wouldn't be the lowest GPA they admit.

My guesses:

Y: 10%
H: 5%
S: 20%
CCN: slightly better than even
MVPB: 80%
Everywhere else: IN

Definitely don't ED anywhere, unless you have a specific reason (such as, you want academia and anywhere below CCN won't get that for you).

Alexandria
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Alexandria » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:54 pm

johnstuartmill wrote:Stanford's GPA low last year was something like a 3.15. I don't see why they wouldn't strongly consider an applicant with great softs and an LSAT above their 75th percentile, so long as they wouldn't be the lowest GPA they admit.

My guesses:

Y: 10%
H: 5%
S: 20%
CCN: slightly better than even
MVPB: 80%
Everywhere else: IN

Definitely don't ED anywhere, unless you have a specific reason (such as, you want academia and anywhere below CCN won't get that for you).


N is no better than some of MVPB for academia.

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johnstuartmill
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby johnstuartmill » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:08 am

It depends. NYU has a pretty badass Law and Philosophy department; I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to land an academia in that field if one went to NYU.

Battle
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Battle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:11 am

Man, I am so jealous. I returned from Iraq in Nov, took the LSAT in Dec, and tanked it. Now im scraping at the bottom of tier 4 begging for them to give me a chance. Way to go!

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vanwinkle
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:16 am

Battle wrote:Man, I am so jealous. I returned from Iraq in Nov, took the LSAT in Dec, and tanked it. Now im scraping at the bottom of tier 4 begging for them to give me a chance. Way to go!

Study, retake, and reapply next year. And thank you for serving.

EDIT: OP, thank you for serving too. I'm a dick for not saying that sooner.

Battle
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Battle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:17 am

I wish that was even an option. This was my only window to leave the Army for at least two years. I effed this one up badly, but I have no one to blame but myself.

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Mroberts3
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Mroberts3 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:22 am

Battle wrote:I wish that was even an option. This was my only window to leave the Army for at least two years. I effed this one up badly, but I have no one to blame but myself.


Two more years of experience wouldn't hurt you, not to mention the added benefit of saving more $$ and riding out the economy in the meantime. If you raised your LSAT in those two years it could really help.

To OP: People will probably disagree, but I think you should look closely at Berkeley. I know they like high GPA's, but I think if there is a school where a 175 LSAT veteran (esp with an awesome PS) will turn some heads, this is it.

Thanks to both for your service. Here's to hoping I get into JAG after LS!

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vanwinkle
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:22 am

Battle wrote:I wish that was even an option. This was my only window to leave the Army for at least two years. I effed this one up badly, but I have no one to blame but myself.

Pick some schools to apply to as big reaches. Hopefully they'll look past your LSAT score and see your service. Good luck.

Battle
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Battle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:27 am

I have applied to everything from Berkeley to Hofstra. I am crushed considering the fact they were the first two schools to reject me.

I popped in a few more applications to some tier 4 schools this week. Time to roll the dice and see if I catch a break. I just need ONE admissions officer to see my potential and not just my stats. My PS, LOR, and additional addendums are superb. Thanks for the encouragement. It is greatly appreciated.


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big_blue79
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby big_blue79 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:22 am

UVA also offers full ride Yellow Ribbon for up to 5 veterans (assuming you're 100% GI Bill qualified). Among my apps, UCLA is also offering up to ~$17k (w/$17k VA match), which I believe is a full "ride" for in-state rates.

Post-911 GI Bill may be the single greatest investment I'll ever make...

OP, good luck on your apps.

kedom
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby kedom » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:07 am

big_blue79 wrote:UVA also offers full ride Yellow Ribbon for up to 5 veterans (assuming you're 100% GI Bill qualified). Among my apps, UCLA is also offering up to ~$17k (w/$17k VA match), which I believe is a full "ride" for in-state rates.

Post-911 GI Bill may be the single greatest investment I'll ever make...

OP, good luck on your apps.


That's awesome. I had heard of the Yellow Ribbon program, but didn't realize some schools paid enough to it that it would cover all tuition. I am also 100% eligible for the new GI Bill as I came in with no student loans from undergrad. Did you pay into the older one? What happens with that money?

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big_blue79
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby big_blue79 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:41 am

kedom wrote:That's awesome. I had heard of the Yellow Ribbon program, but didn't realize some schools paid enough to it that it would cover all tuition. I am also 100% eligible for the new GI Bill as I came in with no student loans from undergrad. Did you pay into the older one? What happens with that money?


UVA and UCLA were the exceptions, rather than the rule, and their Yellow Ribbon slots are limited to only a few slots. I believe UVA's is first come, first serve. For comparison's sake, Columbia offers an unlimited amount of $1k (with $1k VA match), and NYU (non-undergrad) nothing.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_info/c ... ribbon.htm

I paid $1800 into the GI Bill, including the top-off, and I haven't touched it yet. My brother (Marine) got out, did a semester on the Montgomery GI Bill at UMinn, then took a semester off and coverted to post-911. I assume they just pro-rate it.

Do officers get the GI Bill? I guess if you went OTS instead of ROTC or Academy you would...

Rawlsian
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Rawlsian » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:54 am

bahama wrote:Don't ED. You are going to get into plenty of great schools without it and you may be screwing yourself out of the option at more $ at another school if you lock into one early with an ED.

Your numbers are going to matter a lot less than for most people. For one thing you are primarily competing against the other military applicants, many of whom have a lower gpa because they tend to come from schools/majors with less grade inflation and tend to have had a lot of other things going on in college other than grades. Also, the context of your undergrad grades matters. Do you have something that can explain your gpa such as you were a technical major and div 1 athlete and really involved in ROTC? Or maybe you were enlisted for a few years and got bad grades freshman year while making the adjustment back to school. Your typical 3.2/175 straight out of undergrad is either someone who put much more effort into test prep than classes (and possibly a retaker), or someone who is good at tests and just kind of drifted through college and blew things off knowing they could cram for the final or write a paper the night before it was due and come out okay. With your background you will be a lot more appealing to law schools than these folks.

GI Bill isn't going to help if the Army helped pay for undergrad unless either:
- You have eligibility left from prior enlisted time
- You serve past your initial obligation (3 more yrs for full eligibility)



Really, how does this work?

Op, I agree with the above posters: don't ED. I'd spend the next six months working on a solid PS. If you're curious about a military boost, feel free to check back in on my cycle here in a month or so. I don't have nearly the LSAT score you do (170), but I did spend about 2 n half years in Iraq as infantry, so a boost may be discernible if I get into any of my reaches.
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Rawlsian

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Drew2010
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Drew2010 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:38 am

I feel like the military soft may be getting over valued in this thread.. I don't think it is as strong as people think it is. At least it hasn't appeared so to me.

Rawlsian
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby Rawlsian » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:39 am

Drew2010 wrote:I feel like the military soft may be getting over valued in this thread.. I don't think it is as strong as people think it is. At least it hasn't appeared so to me.


I agree.

kedom
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby kedom » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:11 pm

big_blue79 wrote:
kedom wrote:That's awesome. I had heard of the Yellow Ribbon program, but didn't realize some schools paid enough to it that it would cover all tuition. I am also 100% eligible for the new GI Bill as I came in with no student loans from undergrad. Did you pay into the older one? What happens with that money?


UVA and UCLA were the exceptions, rather than the rule, and their Yellow Ribbon slots are limited to only a few slots. I believe UVA's is first come, first serve. For comparison's sake, Columbia offers an unlimited amount of $1k (with $1k VA match), and NYU (non-undergrad) nothing.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_info/c ... ribbon.htm

I paid $1800 into the GI Bill, including the top-off, and I haven't touched it yet. My brother (Marine) got out, did a semester on the Montgomery GI Bill at UMinn, then took a semester off and coverted to post-911. I assume they just pro-rate it.

Do officers get the GI Bill? I guess if you went OTS instead of ROTC or Academy you would...


Yea, I went OCS. We had the option of Student Loan Repayment or GI Bill, and I took the latter.

bahama
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby bahama » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:42 pm

Battle wrote:I have applied to everything from Berkeley to Hofstra. I am crushed considering the fact they were the first two schools to reject me.

I popped in a few more applications to some tier 4 schools this week. Time to roll the dice and see if I catch a break. I just need ONE admissions officer to see my potential and not just my stats. My PS, LOR, and additional addendums are superb. Thanks for the encouragement. It is greatly appreciated.


What about working for a year and then retaking and reapplying? There are still places looking to hire junior officers who get out.

bahama
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby bahama » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:58 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
Drew2010 wrote:I feel like the military soft may be getting over valued in this thread.. I don't think it is as strong as people think it is. At least it hasn't appeared so to me.


I agree.

It seems to matter quite a bit for some folks and not much for others.

I'm not sure why this is, but suspect it has a lot to do with how the military applicant frames their application rather than some sort of inherent numeric value of the soft.

I also think a lot of military folks hurt their chances by doing things like applying late in the cycle (often due to deployments or other factors beyond their control), hastily putting together their applications, or just not fully understanding the process or what schools are looking for.

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im_blue
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Re: 3.2/175 Army Officer/veteran

Postby im_blue » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:56 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
Drew2010 wrote:I feel like the military soft may be getting over valued in this thread.. I don't think it is as strong as people think it is. At least it hasn't appeared so to me.


I agree.


I also concur. Military service is great, but it's not curing cancer.




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