URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

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groundkontrol
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URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby groundkontrol » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:44 pm

Posted this a month ago with my old LSAT score. I figured I'd post again and get some thoughts.

URM African-American Male
3.4 GPA from Cornell
Master's at Columbia
159 December LSAT (153 previous)
All apps were submitted in November and went complete at the beginning of the month when my December score arrived.
Already took 1 year off to do my master's so I definitely don't want to take another year off to apply next cycle.

Am I out of luck for the T14?
Last edited by groundkontrol on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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groundkontrol
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby groundkontrol » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:11 pm

96 views and no responses? :(

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vanwinkle
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:13 pm

You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.

02082010
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby 02082010 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:13 pm

Probably in at Cornell.

bomedtheLSAT101
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby bomedtheLSAT101 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:22 am

Try rank 20-30. I think Top 19 aside from wash u st. louis, has alot of asians, enough to not count you as a minority. I think.

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groundkontrol
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby groundkontrol » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:33 am

bomedtheLSAT101 wrote:Try rank 20-30. I think Top 19 aside from wash u st. louis, has alot of asians, enough to not count you as a minority. I think.


Confused by the asian reference. AA means African-American not Asian-American. I'm black. Just changed the thread title and posting for clarity.
Last edited by groundkontrol on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:33 am

groundkontrol wrote:
bomedtheLSAT101 wrote:Try rank 20-30. I think Top 19 aside from wash u st. louis, has alot of asians, enough to not count you as a minority. I think.


Confused by the asian reference. AA means African-American not Asian-American. I'm black.

That dude is newer to TLS than you are, he has no idea what he's talking about, just ignore him and pay attention to everyone else and you'll be fine.

amg0996
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Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby amg0996 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:34 am

Retake

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groundkontrol
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Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby groundkontrol » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:37 am

amg0996 wrote:Retake


The next time I could retake would be in June, which would put me into the next cycle. I already took a year off to do my master's and I'm not going to take another year off.

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PDaddy
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby PDaddy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:07 am

vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.


But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.

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najumobi
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby najumobi » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:13 am

PDaddy wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.


But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.

this is his 2nd test (153 on first test)...so his score band isn't 156-162...it's probably 154-158
Last edited by najumobi on Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:13 am

PDaddy wrote:But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.

No, having a 160 or greater would make him a 160+. I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance, just that he has a much weaker chance IMO because he's not in the 160+ range.

The LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between one number and another, but they still seem to draw important psychological lines that adcomms follow. See also: 169 vs. 170 when trying to get into lower T14.

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najumobi
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Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby najumobi » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:16 am

groundkontrol wrote:Posted this a month ago with my old LSAT score. I figured I'd post again and get some thoughts.

URM African-American Male
3.4 GPA from Cornell
Master's at Columbia
159 December LSAT (153 previous)
All apps were submitted in November and went complete at the beginning of the month when my December score arrived.
Already took 1 year off to do my master's so I definitely don't want to take another year off to apply next cycle.

Am I out of luck for the T14?

you're not out of luck at the T14....depending on your softs you could get into any one of the T14 (outside HYS) but you have by far the best chances at cornell...at least 66% or what i would consider a strong target.

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groundkontrol
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Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby groundkontrol » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:36 am

najumobi wrote:
groundkontrol wrote:Posted this a month ago with my old LSAT score. I figured I'd post again and get some thoughts.

URM African-American Male
3.4 GPA from Cornell
Master's at Columbia
159 December LSAT (153 previous)
All apps were submitted in November and went complete at the beginning of the month when my December score arrived.
Already took 1 year off to do my master's so I definitely don't want to take another year off to apply next cycle.

Am I out of luck for the T14?

you're not out of luck at the T14....depending on your softs you could get into any one of the T14 (outside HYS) but you have by far the best chances at cornell...at least 66% or what i would consider a strong target.


Thanks! I really hope everything works out. Where did the 66% number come from?

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PDaddy
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby PDaddy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:22 am

najumobi wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.


But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.

this is his 2nd test (153 on first test)...so his score band isn't 156-162...it's probably 154-158


Ok, if you count averages. But if OP writes an addendum explaining the jump, he's fine. Most schools consider 4+ points a "significant" jump. If I am an adcom, I count the higher score and its score band. Put it like this. An adcom is likely to ask what would happen if OP took the test a third time. The odds are that he would improve by 1-4 points, possibly more. I do agree with the idea that there's a psychological "fault line" of sorts between 159 and 160, but I believe the score jump diminishes that for OP.

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nyyankees
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby nyyankees » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:41 am

PDaddy wrote:
najumobi wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.


But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.

this is his 2nd test (153 on first test)...so his score band isn't 156-162...it's probably 154-158


Ok, if you count averages. But if OP writes an addendum explaining the jump, he's fine. Most schools consider 4+ points a "significant" jump. If I am an adcom, I count the higher score and its score band. Put it like this. An adcom is likely to ask what would happen if OP took the test a third time. The odds are that he would improve by 1-4 points, possibly more. I do agree with the idea that there's a psychological "fault line" of sorts between 159 and 160, but I believe the score jump diminishes that for OP.



all kinds of fail in the bolded. adcomm sees his second score and assumes his real band is somewhere in between. Ultimately, its not about their assumptions of innate ability as much as it is about what score they would report to usnwr, which is a 159

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groundkontrol
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Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT

Postby groundkontrol » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:24 pm

Yeah I understand that the 159 as opposed to a 160 messed me up. But I guess we'll see what happens.




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