What are my odds?

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Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:06 pm

glcoupe wrote:Graduating GPA of 4.1 from a State school. solid LORS. I am going to take an LSAT prep course. What do I need to get on the LSAT to go to a T-14 school?

I would take anything in the TOP 14.


Thanks for the help


167-168 will get you into the t14. If you don't mind paying sticker at cornell. Shoot higher though.

heraper1003
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:22 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby heraper1003 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:31 pm

My university that I am attending to obtain my bachelors degree does not grade on a +/- scale but instead is on a 10-point scale as indicated by the following 100-90 = A, 89-80 = B, 79-70 = C, 69-60 = D, and 59 and below is F. How will such a grading scale compute when it is presented to be converted into my LSDAS. My gpa by the way is a 3.94. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

glcoupe
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: What are my odds?

Postby glcoupe » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:32 pm

thanks. also do law schools look at class schedule or major very much for attendance purposes. Along with that how many pass/no pass classes are appropriate.

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Bildungsroman
Posts: 5537
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: What are my odds?

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:42 pm

heraper1003 wrote:My university that I am attending to obtain my bachelors degree does not grade on a +/- scale but instead is on a 10-point scale as indicated by the following 100-90 = A, 89-80 = B, 79-70 = C, 69-60 = D, and 59 and below is F. How will such a grading scale compute when it is presented to be converted into my LSDAS. My gpa by the way is a 3.94. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.


http://www.lsac.org/aboutlsac/faqs-and- ... -different

4.33 98-100
4.00 93-97
3.67 90-92
3.33 87-89
3.00 83-86
2.67 80-82
2.33 77-79
2.00 73-76
1.67 70-72
1.33 67-69
1.00 63-66
0.67 60-62
0.00 Below 60

User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:29 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
heraper1003 wrote:My university that I am attending to obtain my bachelors degree does not grade on a +/- scale but instead is on a 10-point scale as indicated by the following 100-90 = A, 89-80 = B, 79-70 = C, 69-60 = D, and 59 and below is F. How will such a grading scale compute when it is presented to be converted into my LSDAS. My gpa by the way is a 3.94. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.


http://www.lsac.org/aboutlsac/faqs-and- ... -different

4.33 98-100
4.00 93-97
3.67 90-92
3.33 87-89
3.00 83-86
2.67 80-82
2.33 77-79
2.00 73-76
1.67 70-72
1.33 67-69
1.00 63-66
0.67 60-62
0.00 Below 60


They aren't going to know your exact number because that won't be on your transcript. Which means it will be calculated the same as your GPA is now.

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Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:30 pm

glcoupe wrote:thanks. also do law schools look at class schedule or major very much for attendance purposes. Along with that how many pass/no pass classes are appropriate.


Generally, 1-3 pass classes is ok, too many more is pushing it. And know they don't care about your major except for maybe a slight bump for engineers.

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Deuce
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:12 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby Deuce » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:47 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
glcoupe wrote:thanks. also do law schools look at class schedule or major very much for attendance purposes. Along with that how many pass/no pass classes are appropriate.


Generally, 1-3 pass classes is ok, too many more is pushing it. And know they don't care about your major except for maybe a slight bump for engineers.


What if you have a couple of pass/fail classes not because you didn't want them for GPA, but because they are ungraded courses? For example, I have several pass/fail internships. Internships through my school are only done pass/fail, there is no grading. So it would be bad if I had 4 internships?

jameric
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:45 pm

Re: What are my odds?

Postby jameric » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:54 pm

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum. I have not written my LSAT yet.
My undergrad GPA is pretty low, 3.0 (in engineering from top engineering school in canada), but my graduate (master's) GPA (also in engineering from top engineering school) is 4.0. Do I have any shot in getting into Chicago, NYU, or Columbia? (with a very good LSAT score)

Thanks

charmin519
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby charmin519 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:59 am

I'm new to the game and would like some perspective on my overall application.

UGPA 2.7
LSAT 162

Softs-
DUI during Freshman year and was financially cut off from parents and was mandated to AA meetings, state probation, MADD impact panels, community service, and financial restitution. Also was financially responsible for all of this. Never been in trouble since this occurrence when I was 19. Started an industrial coating business and went to school full time after DUI. My company started slow over the first two years and my grades are apparent with many many W's and F's. I couldn't drop out of school because I KNEW I would never go back. However, after the initial 24 month hump of starting a business I sustained 500k annual revenues and was able to hire on help. Grades dramatically increased after company was on cruise control. I completed final 66 credit hours with 3.2 GPA in 15 month span. I was literally taking 18-21 credit hours at a time to finish up.

I became very involved on campus during my last two years:
President of Fraternity
University Mentor for Incoming Freshman Orientations
Student Government Finance Committee
Volunteered for Boy Scouts of America, Habitat for Humanity, and numerous campus organizations.

My business was not a mom and pop shop. I presented energy saving analysis proposal and contracts to Home Depot, CVS Pharmacy, and Darwin Foods on a regional basis. I literally traveled the entire southeast and field applicated my product. This is a business that required application licenses, numerous insurance qualifications, and multiple municipality licenses. I have tax returns to prove that at age 22 I was making 97k a year. With the economy falling apart I panicked and sold my business and became a Senior Account Executive for a publicly traded Mechanical Contracting Company in 2007. I've worked here for the past two years and I'm currently in the top ten in sales for the nation 6th of 62 salesman. It's also noteworthy that I'm the youngest salesman within the company at the age of 26 and I consistently sell 1.5 million in revenue per year with a clientele that consists of GE Aviation, IBM, Westfield Malls, etc..... I sell maintenance contracts, building automation, energy management systems, and heavy industrial HVAC equipment. I specialize in high rise developments and manufacturing facilities.

I don't have an MBA or an Engineering Degree yet I out perform the majority of my colleagues who also are an average 10 years older. I have a few awards and write ups about my performance but nothing extraordinarily in depth that really tells my story. I'm currently a member of my communities young professionals chamber of commerce and have sponsored/volunteer fishing tournaments for University of Florida Shands Hospital "Fishing for Kids" tournament.

My LOR's will be all business professionals as I didn't impress to many teachers at my university. I had bad attendance because of my business and most professors didn't care for my business first attitude. No one believed the type of business that I ran. My LOR's will be from the Vice President of Sales, General Manager of Local Office, and Real Estate Investor whom I've attempted joint venture projects with (none were successful but non the less). All will talk about my business career and success at early age with absolutely no business degree. MY DEGREE IS CRIMINAL JUSTICE. I GOT MY BUSINESS savy doing my wife's homework which was a B.A. degree.

I HAVE THESE QUESTIONS:

1) Should I explain my circumstances (GRADES) in my Personal Statement and to what extent?
2) Should I create and send an Addendum (GRADES) for all applications whether they except addendums or not?
3) Do my softs carry any weight considering that I basically have been working in a professional capacity since 2004 despite not graduating until 2007?
4) WILL MY DUI and multiple W's (Like 15) hurt me that bad despite my apparent success in business at such an early age and during a recession?

WHAT's MY CHANCES
Reach: Washington & Lee, George Mason, Georgia, Southern Methodist, Wisconsin, Alabama,American

Target:
FSU, UF, Pitt, Tennessee, Richmond, Houston, Georgia State, Case Western, Kansas, Nebraska

Safety:
Stetson, Samford, Indianapolis, Marquette, UNLV, South Carolina

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MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:18 am

charmin519 wrote:I'm new to the game and would like some perspective on my overall application.

UGPA 2.7
LSAT 162

Softs-
DUI during Freshman year and was financially cut off from parents and was mandated to AA meetings, state probation, MADD impact panels, community service, and financial restitution. Also was financially responsible for all of this. Never been in trouble since this occurrence when I was 19. Started an industrial coating business and went to school full time after DUI. My company started slow over the first two years and my grades are apparent with many many W's and F's. I couldn't drop out of school because I KNEW I would never go back. However, after the initial 24 month hump of starting a business I sustained 500k annual revenues and was able to hire on help. Grades dramatically increased after company was on cruise control. I completed final 66 credit hours with 3.2 GPA in 15 month span. I was literally taking 18-21 credit hours at a time to finish up.

I became very involved on campus during my last two years:
President of Fraternity
University Mentor for Incoming Freshman Orientations
Student Government Finance Committee
Volunteered for Boy Scouts of America, Habitat for Humanity, and numerous campus organizations.

My business was not a mom and pop shop. I presented energy saving analysis proposal and contracts to Home Depot, CVS Pharmacy, and Darwin Foods on a regional basis. I literally traveled the entire southeast and field applicated my product. This is a business that required application licenses, numerous insurance qualifications, and multiple municipality licenses. I have tax returns to prove that at age 22 I was making 97k a year. With the economy falling apart I panicked and sold my business and became a Senior Account Executive for a publicly traded Mechanical Contracting Company in 2007. I've worked here for the past two years and I'm currently in the top ten in sales for the nation 6th of 62 salesman. It's also noteworthy that I'm the youngest salesman within the company at the age of 26 and I consistently sell 1.5 million in revenue per year with a clientele that consists of GE Aviation, IBM, Westfield Malls, etc..... I sell maintenance contracts, building automation, energy management systems, and heavy industrial HVAC equipment. I specialize in high rise developments and manufacturing facilities.

I don't have an MBA or an Engineering Degree yet I out perform the majority of my colleagues who also are an average 10 years older. I have a few awards and write ups about my performance but nothing extraordinarily in depth that really tells my story. I'm currently a member of my communities young professionals chamber of commerce and have sponsored/volunteer fishing tournaments for University of Florida Shands Hospital "Fishing for Kids" tournament.

My LOR's will be all business professionals as I didn't impress to many teachers at my university. I had bad attendance because of my business and most professors didn't care for my business first attitude. No one believed the type of business that I ran. My LOR's will be from the Vice President of Sales, General Manager of Local Office, and Real Estate Investor whom I've attempted joint venture projects with (none were successful but non the less). All will talk about my business career and success at early age with absolutely no business degree. MY DEGREE IS CRIMINAL JUSTICE. I GOT MY BUSINESS savy doing my wife's homework which was a B.A. degree.

I HAVE THESE QUESTIONS:

1) Should I explain my circumstances (GRADES) in my Personal Statement and to what extent?
2) Should I create and send an Addendum (GRADES) for all applications whether they except addendums or not?
3) Do my softs carry any weight considering that I basically have been working in a professional capacity since 2004 despite not graduating until 2007?
4) WILL MY DUI and multiple W's (Like 15) hurt me that bad despite my apparent success in business at such an early age and during a recession?

WHAT's MY CHANCES
Reach: Washington & Lee, George Mason, Georgia, Southern Methodist, Wisconsin, Alabama,American

Target:
FSU, UF, Pitt, Tennessee, Richmond, Houston, Georgia State, Case Western, Kansas, Nebraska

Safety:
Stetson, Samford, Indianapolis, Marquette, UNLV, South Carolina


(1) Focus on something more substantive in your PS than making excuses for poor grades.
(2) All schools "accept" addenda...you should send one and tone it down (all of it). You come across as pretty supercilious.
(3) Admissions is a numbers game. As a businessman, perhaps you appreciate that. Your softs will probably be tiebreakers (at best), or irrelevant (at worst). Schools can't report your 6th ranked salesmanship to USNWR.
(4) If you disclose, your DUI should be a non-issue. You can explain W's in an addendum, but it's likely you'll be passed over in favor of an applicant who has 14 or fewer.

NB: (A) You will need an LOR from a professor. That's the way it is. Find one now, or enroll in CC and get one; and (B) my "business first" opinion, which you may not "care for" is that LS will be a poor financial decision for you. You're extremely unlikely to be accepted, w/ your #'s, to a school that will be worth giving up a career you seem to enjoy and be decent at.

My .02.

charmin519
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby charmin519 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:19 pm

MrKappus wrote:
charmin519 wrote:I'm new to the game and would like some perspective on my overall application.

UGPA 2.7
LSAT 162

Softs-
DUI during Freshman year and was financially cut off from parents and was mandated to AA meetings, state probation, MADD impact panels, community service, and financial restitution. Also was financially responsible for all of this. Never been in trouble since this occurrence when I was 19. Started an industrial coating business and went to school full time after DUI. My company started slow over the first two years and my grades are apparent with many many W's and F's. I couldn't drop out of school because I KNEW I would never go back. However, after the initial 24 month hump of starting a business I sustained 500k annual revenues and was able to hire on help. Grades dramatically increased after company was on cruise control. I completed final 66 credit hours with 3.2 GPA in 15 month span. I was literally taking 18-21 credit hours at a time to finish up.

I became very involved on campus during my last two years:
President of Fraternity
University Mentor for Incoming Freshman Orientations
Student Government Finance Committee
Volunteered for Boy Scouts of America, Habitat for Humanity, and numerous campus organizations.

My business was not a mom and pop shop. I presented energy saving analysis proposal and contracts to Home Depot, CVS Pharmacy, and Darwin Foods on a regional basis. I literally traveled the entire southeast and field applicated my product. This is a business that required application licenses, numerous insurance qualifications, and multiple municipality licenses. I have tax returns to prove that at age 22 I was making 97k a year. With the economy falling apart I panicked and sold my business and became a Senior Account Executive for a publicly traded Mechanical Contracting Company in 2007. I've worked here for the past two years and I'm currently in the top ten in sales for the nation 6th of 62 salesman. It's also noteworthy that I'm the youngest salesman within the company at the age of 26 and I consistently sell 1.5 million in revenue per year with a clientele that consists of GE Aviation, IBM, Westfield Malls, etc..... I sell maintenance contracts, building automation, energy management systems, and heavy industrial HVAC equipment. I specialize in high rise developments and manufacturing facilities.

I don't have an MBA or an Engineering Degree yet I out perform the majority of my colleagues who also are an average 10 years older. I have a few awards and write ups about my performance but nothing extraordinarily in depth that really tells my story. I'm currently a member of my communities young professionals chamber of commerce and have sponsored/volunteer fishing tournaments for University of Florida Shands Hospital "Fishing for Kids" tournament.

My LOR's will be all business professionals as I didn't impress to many teachers at my university. I had bad attendance because of my business and most professors didn't care for my business first attitude. No one believed the type of business that I ran. My LOR's will be from the Vice President of Sales, General Manager of Local Office, and Real Estate Investor whom I've attempted joint venture projects with (none were successful but non the less). All will talk about my business career and success at early age with absolutely no business degree. MY DEGREE IS CRIMINAL JUSTICE. I GOT MY BUSINESS savy doing my wife's homework which was a B.A. degree.

I HAVE THESE QUESTIONS:

1) Should I explain my circumstances (GRADES) in my Personal Statement and to what extent?
2) Should I create and send an Addendum (GRADES) for all applications whether they except addendums or not?
3) Do my softs carry any weight considering that I basically have been working in a professional capacity since 2004 despite not graduating until 2007?
4) WILL MY DUI and multiple W's (Like 15) hurt me that bad despite my apparent success in business at such an early age and during a recession?

WHAT's MY CHANCES
Reach: Washington & Lee, George Mason, Georgia, Southern Methodist, Wisconsin, Alabama,American

Target:
FSU, UF, Pitt, Tennessee, Richmond, Houston, Georgia State, Case Western, Kansas, Nebraska

Safety:
Stetson, Samford, Indianapolis, Marquette, UNLV, South Carolina


(1) Focus on something more substantive in your PS than making excuses for poor grades.
(2) All schools "accept" addenda...you should send one and tone it down (all of it). You come across as pretty supercilious.
(3) Admissions is a numbers game. As a businessman, perhaps you appreciate that. Your softs will probably be tiebreakers (at best), or irrelevant (at worst). Schools can't report your 6th ranked salesmanship to USNWR.
(4) If you disclose, your DUI should be a non-issue. You can explain W's in an addendum, but it's likely you'll be passed over in favor of an applicant who has 14 or fewer.

NB: (A) You will need an LOR from a professor. That's the way it is. Find one now, or enroll in CC and get one; and (B) my "business first" opinion, which you may not "care for" is that LS will be a poor financial decision for you. You're extremely unlikely to be accepted, w/ your #'s, to a school that will be worth giving up a career you seem to enjoy and be decent at.

My .02.



Didn't mean to come off as supercilious. Just trying to give a direct and accurate picture of my background.

Thank you for advice on PS. I intend not mentioning anything in my PS about grades and will rely on Addendum's.

I'm not really looking for Big Law type job and really don't mind going to a Tier 2 or even Tier 3 school. I don't really have a choice but you get my point. My job prospects from the beginning are to start my own shop up and use my existing business network. My concentration will be on business law with mergers, secure transactions, taxation, etc.........Ultimate goal would to create a consultant/asset management firm that's able to help business in all sectors including legal, finance, marketing, etc.......So again job prospects aren't a huge factor for me. Sorry if that comes off as supercilious again but I'm not going to law school for big law.

I appreciate the advice though and I'm sorry that I didn't communicate my law school intentions from the beginning.

So the question remains??? Are my reach schools really just dreams? Are my Target Schools realistically my Reaches?

I've done research with the predictor calculator but honestly this doesn't factor in softs or non traditional students applicants. I've also found LSN to trend only towards people with higher peripherals. Could be that other applicants don't input numbers or applicants could just be that good these days? My point is that I've done research on LSAT medians for all the schools listed above and I meet or exceed many of them. So with a sub 25% UGPA, 50-75% LSAT, my softs listed above (which I think are unique), and assumption that I can adaquetely show my strengths in PS and LOR's; what are my odds?

Are my schools off base?
Is there absolutely no hope for the Tier 1 and 50-70 Tier 2 schools?

Thanks again for your insightful advice.

charmin519
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby charmin519 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:46 pm

Didn't mean to come off as supercilious. Just trying to give a direct and accurate picture of my background.

Thank you for advice on PS. I intend not mentioning anything in my PS about grades and will rely on Addendum's.

I'm not really looking for Big Law type job and really don't mind going to a Tier 2 or even Tier 3 school. I don't really have a choice but you get my point. My job prospects from the beginning are to start my own shop up and use my existing business network. My concentration will be on business law with mergers, secure transactions, taxation, etc.........Ultimate goal would to create a consultant/asset management firm that's able to help business in all sectors including legal, finance, marketing, etc.......So again job prospects aren't a huge factor for me. Sorry if that comes off as supercilious again but I'm not going to law school for big law.

I appreciate the advice though and I'm sorry that I didn't communicate my law school intentions from the beginning.

So the question remains??? Are my reach schools really just dreams? Are my Target Schools realistically my Reaches?

I've done research with the predictor calculator but honestly this doesn't factor in softs or non traditional students applicants. I've also found LSN to trend only towards people with higher peripherals. Could be that other applicants don't input numbers or applicants could just be that good these days? My point is that I've done research on LSAT medians for all the schools listed above and I meet or exceed many of them. So with a sub 25% UGPA, 50-75% LSAT, my softs listed above (which I think are unique), and assumption that I can adaquetely show my strengths in PS and LOR's; what are my odds?

Are my schools off base?
Is there absolutely no hope for the Tier 1 and 50-70 Tier 2 schools?

Thanks again for your insightful advice.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:15 pm

You've got some stuff on your resume that the vast majority of 22 year-old (or 30 year-old) applicants don't have, for sure. My cycle was pretty much a let-down at T1 schools (though a couple let me in), and I too was hardly a 75/75% applicant. If there's a T1 where you're in-state, that's your best shot. That said, when you're not a sure thing (one way or the other) by the numbers, it comes down to softs. If you apply broadly and manage your expectations, it's very possible that your CV, outlook, and goals strike a T1 adcom the right way. Scholarship leverage aside, you only need to convince one.

Apologies for the bluntness before. Do know that sometimes self-starters, as you seem to be, don't realize that confidence can be mistaken for brashness.

charmin519
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby charmin519 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:47 pm

MrKappus wrote:You've got some stuff on your resume that the vast majority of 22 year-old (or 30 year-old) applicants don't have, for sure. My cycle was pretty much a let-down at T1 schools (though a couple let me in), and I too was hardly a 75/75% applicant. If there's a T1 where you're in-state, that's your best shot. That said, when you're not a sure thing (one way or the other) by the numbers, it comes down to softs. If you apply broadly and manage your expectations, it's very possible that your CV, outlook, and goals strike a T1 adcom the right way. Scholarship leverage aside, you only need to convince one.

Apologies for the bluntness before. Do know that sometimes self-starters, as you seem to be, don't realize that confidence can be mistaken for brashness.



I currently live in Tampa Florida and intend to apply to FSU and Stetson but for some reason I have serious doubts about FSU. They seem to be less forgiving to splitters. Stetson is a possibility and is 15 miles away but I really would like to attend Georgia State, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Alabama, Houston, SMU, or Richmond. I also have two friends who originally went to University of Denver and transferred to Stetson and each of them have yet to pass the Florida Bar. Some of this is their own doing but they make a strong argument to Stetson's inability to academically challenge students even compared to University of Denver which is by no means a academic powerhouse. So I have my concerns with Stetson.

This leaves me with limited options in Florida as Miami is not nearly as nice as the country perceives it to be (GANGS, MOB, Unemployment, very high property taxes, horrible traffic, etc.....)and Gainesville is a two exit gas station stop in BFE Florida. Horrible, Horrible, Horrible town that only offers Health Care Careers for pennies on the dollar. Great education system at UF but horrible surroundings with little networking opportunities.

If I interpreted your last response correctly it seemed that my best chance for Tier 1 was in state and that I would have no predetermined probability of acceptance at most top 100 schools because of super splitter stats. Furthermore, I should prepare my cycle with as many applications as possible hoping that (1) of the 15+ schools mentioned above lets me in? GEEZZZ.... not what I wanted to hear but very grateful for blunt and realistic opinion. I was pretty sure 162 and wash of GPA and great softs would get me into Tennessee, Stetson, Georgia State, Samford, Marquette, Indy, and possibly Richmond, FSU, Part Time SMU, PT/Houston, and Pitt. I only though real reaches were Alabama, Wisconsin, George Mason/PT, Washington & LEE, etc... as mentioned above.

Are you being overly pessimistic to keep my expectations in check or are you being very realistic? Not questioning you at all!!!! Just trying to get a gauge of what you truly think. Sounds like my expectation above was very off base.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:55 pm

charmin519 wrote:
MrKappus wrote:You've got some stuff on your resume that the vast majority of 22 year-old (or 30 year-old) applicants don't have, for sure. My cycle was pretty much a let-down at T1 schools (though a couple let me in), and I too was hardly a 75/75% applicant. If there's a T1 where you're in-state, that's your best shot. That said, when you're not a sure thing (one way or the other) by the numbers, it comes down to softs. If you apply broadly and manage your expectations, it's very possible that your CV, outlook, and goals strike a T1 adcom the right way. Scholarship leverage aside, you only need to convince one.

Apologies for the bluntness before. Do know that sometimes self-starters, as you seem to be, don't realize that confidence can be mistaken for brashness.



I currently live in Tampa Florida and intend to apply to FSU and Stetson but for some reason I have serious doubts about FSU. They seem to be less forgiving to splitters. Stetson is a possibility and is 15 miles away but I really would like to attend Georgia State, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Alabama, Houston, SMU, or Richmond. I also have two friends who originally went to University of Denver and transferred to Stetson and each of them have yet to pass the Florida Bar. Some of this is their own doing but they make a strong argument to Stetson's inability to academically challenge students even compared to University of Denver which is by no means a academic powerhouse. So I have my concerns with Stetson.

This leaves me with limited options in Florida as Miami is not nearly as nice as the country perceives it to be (GANGS, MOB, Unemployment, very high property taxes, horrible traffic, etc.....)and Gainesville is a two exit gas station stop in BFE Florida. Horrible, Horrible, Horrible town that only offers Health Care Careers for pennies on the dollar. Great education system at UF but horrible surroundings with little networking opportunities.

If I interpreted your last response correctly it seemed that my best chance for Tier 1 was in state and that I would have no predetermined probability of acceptance at most top 100 schools because of super splitter stats. Furthermore, I should prepare my cycle with as many applications as possible hoping that (1) of the 15+ schools mentioned above lets me in? GEEZZZ.... not what I wanted to hear but very grateful for blunt and realistic opinion. I was pretty sure 162 and wash of GPA and great softs would get me into Tennessee, Stetson, Georgia State, Samford, Marquette, Indy, and possibly Richmond, FSU, Part Time SMU, PT/Houston, and Pitt. I only though real reaches were Alabama, Wisconsin, George Mason/PT, Washington & LEE, etc... as mentioned above.

Are you being overly pessimistic to keep my expectations in check or are you being very realistic? Not questioning you at all!!!! Just trying to get a gauge of what you truly think. Sounds like my expectation above was very off base.


Sorry, T1 = Top 50. I think your safeties/targets, combined w/ your softs and distance from UG, are probably all realistic.

bows_and_toes
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:06 pm

Re: What are my odds?

Postby bows_and_toes » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:31 pm

Just going to post this here instead of making a whole new thread...

It seems that almost all of the probability calculators (like the ones in the OP of this thread) tend to consistently give (ive played around with GPAs from anywhere from a 3.0-3.5, and a LSAT from 160-170...a pretty large range) probabilities that are inconsistent with the schools admissions data.

For example, it always gives a better probability for getting into Emory and Wake than UNC, despite Emorys medians being higher than and Wakes numbers similar to UNC's. It often does this by a significant margin, for example ill have something like a 50% chance at Emory, 85% at Wake, but only 25% at UNC. Is this really accurate (does UNC care about GPA that much than LSAT?), or is it just more of a glitch in the data or program? Ive looked at the data points on some of the sites as well, but cant really conclude anything that looking at the median numbers doesnt tell me.

Any thoughts?

charmin519
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby charmin519 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:10 pm

bows_and_toes wrote:Just going to post this here instead of making a whole new thread...

It seems that almost all of the probability calculators (like the ones in the OP of this thread) tend to consistently give (ive played around with GPAs from anywhere from a 3.0-3.5, and a LSAT from 160-170...a pretty large range) probabilities that are inconsistent with the schools admissions data.

For example, it always gives a better probability for getting into Emory and Wake than UNC, despite Emorys medians being higher than and Wakes numbers similar to UNC's. It often does this by a significant margin, for example ill have something like a 50% chance at Emory, 85% at Wake, but only 25% at UNC. Is this really accurate (does UNC care about GPA that much than LSAT?), or is it just more of a glitch in the data or program? Ive looked at the data points on some of the sites as well, but cant really conclude anything that looking at the median numbers doesnt tell me.

Any thoughts?


From my research UNC is high on UGPA but compared to Wake I'm not sure of the percentages. Typically, schools give out medians and sometimes a percentage of accepted students. EX: Median 3.58 GPA with 65% of all accepted student UGPA ranging from 3.5-3.75. Look at the MEDIAN UGPA for the individual schools at Top Law School Rankings. Typically, if you click on a specific school it will tell you the median.

Emory 3.55 Median/25% 3.37
Wake 3.6 Median/25% 3.20
UNC 3.6 Median/25%-3.43

It does seem that UNC has a higher 25% that's accepted to their program. So I would say the predictor is somewhat accurate as UNC seems to covet applicants with 3.5+ UGPA's and have less emphasis on LSAT scores with 162 being the median.

Hope this helps.

ProZach
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Re: What are my odds?

Postby ProZach » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:14 pm

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster. I had a few questions regarding my chances at various schools.

Softs: Nothing too amazing, young white american male. Good LoRs but no crazy work experience or anything like that.
GPA: 3.53 - Liberal Arts Degree, state school
LSAT - First time felt I wasn't ready didn't show up, took an absent. Need to write an explanation for this or not a big deal? Second time got a 161 Don't really feel like retaking it.
What are my chances at - Pepperdine, UC Davis, Santa Clara, ASU and University of Washington.
Finally, I am assuming these are some of the best schools that I could get into with my numbers, are there any other schools that would be worth applying to and could land me a job in big law? Also, is it true that all of these schools are considered regional for the most part, or could I potentially land a job elsewhere if I went to Davis?

ashejane
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Where can I go?

Postby ashejane » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:07 pm

I have a twofold question, I'm planning on getting my PhD in Clinical Psychology joint with a JD. There are a few schools that offer formal joint programs and many more schools that will allow you to develop your own joint JD/PhD program. Initially, I had been considering a few schools that were good PhD programs but nothing special for law but now I wonder if I should set my sights higher for law school. My reasoning is that, in general, the reputation of my law school will be more important than the PhD program. I recently took my first practice LSAT (dry run, no studying) and scored a 176, which made me think I really should be looking at better law schools.

So, based on my stats, where do you think I might get in, and does anyone know if these schools offer the option of joint studies and is there anywhere you might recommend that has good joint programs?

My stats:
GPA 3.72/4.0
Lsat practice - 176
Softs - Since my first passion is psychology all my activities are geared toward that type of thing, counselling etc...

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Patriot1208
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Re: Where can I go?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:43 pm

ashejane wrote:I have a twofold question, I'm planning on getting my PhD in Clinical Psychology joint with a JD. There are a few schools that offer formal joint programs and many more schools that will allow you to develop your own joint JD/PhD program. Initially, I had been considering a few schools that were good PhD programs but nothing special for law but now I wonder if I should set my sights higher for law school. My reasoning is that, in general, the reputation of my law school will be more important than the PhD program. I recently took my first practice LSAT (dry run, no studying) and scored a 176, which made me think I really should be looking at better law schools.

So, based on my stats, where do you think I might get in, and does anyone know if these schools offer the option of joint studies and is there anywhere you might recommend that has good joint programs?

My stats:
GPA 3.72/4.0
Lsat practice - 176
Softs - Since my first passion is psychology all my activities are geared toward that type of thing, counselling etc...


Well if you really get above a 175 your in for sure at every school except HYS, with a shot at harvard. Some schools may Yield protect you, but you can always write a compelling Why X essay if you really prefer Penn over Columbia or something.

salenics
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Re: What are my odds?

Postby salenics » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:55 pm

Well,this really helps me a lot! Thank you very much to share such a useful information!
If u dont mind,here u can have a good look,maybe it can give u a fantastic challenge, just come to SHOES GALORE OMG SPAM!!!!![/b]

alexdstone
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:23 am

Re: What are my odds?

Postby alexdstone » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:14 pm

Soft: White 21 yr old male, 1 yr work experience with an L&T lawyer in Downtown Manhattan

GPA : 3.33 (disappointing, at best)

LSAT : Canceled score for June 2010 exam (panicked on exam day) re-taking in October


What do I have to score in October to have a legit shot at NYU????



*braces self*

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hemm
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Re: What are my odds?

Postby hemm » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:21 pm

3.75 / 175

Non-URM. Only real soft is 3 years teaching English abroad. I'll probably blanket the T14, but I'm not sure what my chances are at the T6. Targets are Chi and Columbia. Realistic?

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Deuce
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Re: What are my odds?

Postby Deuce » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:49 pm

hemm wrote:3.75 / 175

Non-URM. Only real soft is 3 years teaching English abroad. I'll probably blanket the T14, but I'm not sure what my chances are at the T6. Targets are Chi and Columbia. Realistic?


You serious? You're almost 100% everywhere except YHS where you still have a good chance.

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Sh@keNb@ke
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Re: What are my odds?

Postby Sh@keNb@ke » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:25 pm

hemm wrote:3.75 / 175

Non-URM. Only real soft is 3 years teaching English abroad. I'll probably blanket the T14, but I'm not sure what my chances are at the T6. Targets are Chi and Columbia. Realistic?


Out at Yale.

H/S are a 50/50.

In everywhere else on down.




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