T4 transfer question

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newyorker69
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby newyorker69 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:49 pm

LOL

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kurama20
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby kurama20 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:03 am

TheLuckyOne wrote:I'm sorry to ask this question, I'm just clueless in certain things. Is it really that easy to get into CLS/NYU being #1 at t4? and is it really that hard to get a high GPA from a t4 school? Honestly, just really curious and completely clueless.


I mean there are about 200 schools, if every top 5 students from each school decide to transfer to t14, even t5, and CLS/NYU accept up to a 100 and HYS 50 (just assuming), there is just not enough space for everyone to be a lock there. I mean, if a person put so much effort to pull that GPA, I doubt that person is not sensible enough to try to transfer to, say, Harvard.

Someone shed some light here, please.


Transferring is a hassle. For a lot of people it just isn't worth it to them. Also I'm not sure why you think being number one in your class (which the OP very well might be) is "easy".

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby TheLuckyOne » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:23 am

kurama20 wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:I'm sorry to ask this question, I'm just clueless in certain things. Is it really that easy to get into CLS/NYU being #1 at t4? and is it really that hard to get a high GPA from a t4 school? Honestly, just really curious and completely clueless.


I mean there are about 200 schools, if every top 5 students from each school decide to transfer to t14, even t5, and CLS/NYU accept up to a 100 and HYS 50 (just assuming), there is just not enough space for everyone to be a lock there. I mean, if a person put so much effort to pull that GPA, I doubt that person is not sensible enough to try to transfer to, say, Harvard.

Someone shed some light here, please.


Transferring is a hassle. For a lot of people it just isn't worth it to them. Also I'm not sure why you think being number one in your class (which the OP very well might be) is "easy".


I'm just under impression that it's not too hard. I also think that most of his classmates go there just for the sake of going to school, not to actually learn something.

For the record, OP, by no means am I being a jerk here, I'm genuinely curious (mostly likely due to certain biases on my part :? )

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Cara
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby Cara » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:29 am

Congratulations and definitely apply to CLS/NYU with Fordham as a worst case safety. I wouldn't waste my time applying to any of the lower ranked NYC schools. If you're willing to leave the NYC area you could put in apps to all of the T14. You never know, if you finish #1 then as a URM you might even get HLS.

There's a yahoogroup called transferapps that has a lot of good info about transfering.
Last edited by Cara on Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

BenJ
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby BenJ » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:30 am

-
Last edited by BenJ on Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

iceman12354
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby iceman12354 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:38 am

I'm surprised no one has suggested locking in your good fortune and applying to Georgetown or Chicago with one semester's grades. Just a thought, but if it's at all possible, and you're not at all certain (100%) that you can repeat the performance, I would say apply to these schools early and pray.

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Ken
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby Ken » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:42 am

TLS will soon be creating an entire forum for those looking to transfer and also expand and add content for transferring. In the meantime, Arrow wrote a good article on transferring (got into Boalt from Loyola (LA), which can be found at:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=82937

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby TheLuckyOne » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:54 am

BenJ wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:I'm sorry to ask this question, I'm just clueless in certain things. Is it really that easy to get into CLS/NYU being #1 at t4? and is it really that hard to get a high GPA from a t4 school? Honestly, just really curious and completely clueless.


I mean there are about 200 schools, if every top 5 students from each school decide to transfer to t14, even t5, and CLS/NYU accept up to a 100 and HYS 50 (just assuming), there is just not enough space for everyone to be a lock there. I mean, if a person put so much effort to pull that GPA, I doubt that person is not sensible enough to try to transfer to, say, Harvard.

Someone shed some light here, please.


Transferring is a hassle. For a lot of people it just isn't worth it to them. Also I'm not sure why you think being number one in your class (which the OP very well might be) is "easy".


Not easy generally, of course, but perhaps easy for someone who went to a law school way below their potential. Think of someone with a 3.5 UG GPA and a 165 on the LSAT. That's good enough to get into Fordham, say, but certainly not T14 material. However, instead of going to Fordham, this student applies to Touro, gets a full scholarship, and attends. They're far more qualified than everyone else at Touro and therefore has an easy time making it to at or near top of the class, definitely over a 4.0 GPA assuming they still work. Then, after 1L, this person applies to transfer to NYU and gets in. Clearly, that transfer to NYU is much, much easier than the transfer from Fordham, where said person would have been maybe 75th percentile at best.

Just a possible way someone could game the system, I guess.


haha and something definitely worth contemplating about :P

by the way, does anyone know of the concrete examples of someone's rank at a top school who was #1 at TTT. Would be good to know. Does anyone communicate with Yalie? I remember he trasfered from a very low ranked school to Yale.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:08 am

BenJ wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:I'm sorry to ask this question, I'm just clueless in certain things. Is it really that easy to get into CLS/NYU being #1 at t4? and is it really that hard to get a high GPA from a t4 school? Honestly, just really curious and completely clueless.


I mean there are about 200 schools, if every top 5 students from each school decide to transfer to t14, even t5, and CLS/NYU accept up to a 100 and HYS 50 (just assuming), there is just not enough space for everyone to be a lock there. I mean, if a person put so much effort to pull that GPA, I doubt that person is not sensible enough to try to transfer to, say, Harvard.

Someone shed some light here, please.


Transferring is a hassle. For a lot of people it just isn't worth it to them. Also I'm not sure why you think being number one in your class (which the OP very well might be) is "easy".


Not easy generally, of course, but perhaps easy for someone who went to a law school way below their potential. Think of someone with a 3.5 UG GPA and a 165 on the LSAT. That's good enough to get into Fordham, say, but certainly not T14 material. However, instead of going to Fordham, this student applies to Touro, gets a full scholarship, and attends. They're far more qualified than everyone else at Touro and therefore has an easy time making it to at or near top of the class, definitely over a 4.0 GPA assuming they still work. Then, after 1L, this person applies to transfer to NYU and gets in. Clearly, that transfer to NYU is much, much easier than the transfer from Fordham, where said person would have been maybe 75th percentile at best.

Just a possible way someone could game the system, I guess.


False. Based only on 2 numbers there is no way to say with any certainty that someones ability to perform on law school exams is somehow capped. Get off your high horse.

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billyez
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby billyez » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:18 am

I agree with the above sentiment, except without the added spice of righteousness. The prevailing wisdom from law students is that it's best go into a top-tier school in the first place because law school grades are so unpredictable. Going to a lower tiered school to "game the system" is utterly foolish because you don't know how the game is played at that point.

Besides, if this guy proves anything that LSAT crap is just as crappy of a prediction of your performance in law school as long as you work hard and work smart.

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Helmholtz
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:20 am

I'm sorry, but going to a lower school out of speculation that you will do awesome in order to transfer up is hilarious, it's like playing Russian roulette with a couple extra bullets.

newyorker69
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby newyorker69 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:28 am

i cant be certain but i have a friend who was at my school who did pretty well and transferred to a good T2 school. i was told by that person that the T4 school can be even harder to get top grades because everyone is gunning hard for the good grades. if i killed the LSAT, i would NEVER risk "gaming" the system. i just hope this is true because i was worried if I do move up to a T14, i would be a fish out of water but hopefully my success in T4 should carry over to a T1

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jack duluoz
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby jack duluoz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:31 am

wow.

1. Congrats on the semester!

2. theluckyone sounds like an ignorant pile of you know what. They have a lot to learn.

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paratactical
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby paratactical » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:43 am

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

newyorker69
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby newyorker69 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:52 am

I just reserached Univ of Chicago and this is what the site says for early action:

"Early Decision acceptances are binding on the applicant, which means that, if admitted, you will commit to matriculating at the Law School and will withdraw all other transfer applications at other law schools. If you apply Early Decision, you may not apply to any other law school through a binding early decision or early action program... All applicants accepted under the Early Decision program will be required to submit a law school transcript containing their final first-year law school grades. All offers of admission made under the Early Decision transfer program are contingent upon the Law School's receipt of a final first-year law school transcript demonstrating consistent performance and successful completion of one full year of study at an ABA-accredited law school."

GULC says: "Early Action acceptances are not binding on the applicants"

Does that mean I can apply to both schools since Chicago states that I cannot apply to another binding early decision or early action program?

BenJ
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby BenJ » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:59 am

Helmholtz wrote:I'm sorry, but going to a lower school out of speculation that you will do awesome in order to transfer up is hilarious, it's like playing Russian roulette with a couple extra bullets.


I wouldn't suggest it to anyone, but it would be hilarious if someone tried. Not accusing the OP of gaming the system, either, don't worry :)

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strawinlemonade
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby strawinlemonade » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:00 am

BenJ wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:I'm sorry to ask this question, I'm just clueless in certain things. Is it really that easy to get into CLS/NYU being #1 at t4? and is it really that hard to get a high GPA from a t4 school? Honestly, just really curious and completely clueless.


I mean there are about 200 schools, if every top 5 students from each school decide to transfer to t14, even t5, and CLS/NYU accept up to a 100 and HYS 50 (just assuming), there is just not enough space for everyone to be a lock there. I mean, if a person put so much effort to pull that GPA, I doubt that person is not sensible enough to try to transfer to, say, Harvard.

Someone shed some light here, please.


Transferring is a hassle. For a lot of people it just isn't worth it to them. Also I'm not sure why you think being number one in your class (which the OP very well might be) is "easy".


Not easy generally, of course, but perhaps easy for someone who went to a law school way below their potential. Think of someone with a 3.5 UG GPA and a 165 on the LSAT. That's good enough to get into Fordham, say, but certainly not T14 material. However, instead of going to Fordham, this student applies to Touro, gets a full scholarship, and attends. They're far more qualified than almost everyone else at Touro and therefore have an easy time making it to at or near top of the class, definitely over a 4.0 GPA assuming they still work. Then, after 1L, this person applies to transfer to NYU and gets in. Clearly, that transfer to NYU is much, much easier than the transfer from Fordham, where said person would have been maybe 75th percentile at best.

Just a possible way someone could game the system, I guess.


Why is a 3.5/165 "certainly not T14"? Those stats would put you in the lower quartile of many of those schools. The chances are obviously low, but "certainly not" is too strong, no?

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Helmholtz
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:03 am

strawinlemonade wrote:Why is a 3.5/165 not "certainly not T14"? Those stats would put you in the lower quartile for many of those schools. The chances are obviously low, but "certainly" is too strong, no?


Having both numbers below median = almost certain rejection. Remember, having an LSAT and GPA at the 25th percentile does not mean that 25% of the class is going to have lower numbers than you, it means that 25% of the class is going to have a lower GPA (which is usually offset by their 75th+ LSAT) and 25% of the class is going to have a lower LSAT (which is usually offset by their 75th+ GPA).

BenJ
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby BenJ » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:05 am

strawinlemonade wrote:
BenJ wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
TheLuckyOne wrote:I'm sorry to ask this question, I'm just clueless in certain things. Is it really that easy to get into CLS/NYU being #1 at t4? and is it really that hard to get a high GPA from a t4 school? Honestly, just really curious and completely clueless.


I mean there are about 200 schools, if every top 5 students from each school decide to transfer to t14, even t5, and CLS/NYU accept up to a 100 and HYS 50 (just assuming), there is just not enough space for everyone to be a lock there. I mean, if a person put so much effort to pull that GPA, I doubt that person is not sensible enough to try to transfer to, say, Harvard.

Someone shed some light here, please.


Transferring is a hassle. For a lot of people it just isn't worth it to them. Also I'm not sure why you think being number one in your class (which the OP very well might be) is "easy".


Not easy generally, of course, but perhaps easy for someone who went to a law school way below their potential. Think of someone with a 3.5 UG GPA and a 165 on the LSAT. That's good enough to get into Fordham, say, but certainly not T14 material. However, instead of going to Fordham, this student applies to Touro, gets a full scholarship, and attends. They're far more qualified than almost everyone else at Touro and therefore have an easy time making it to at or near top of the class, definitely over a 4.0 GPA assuming they still work. Then, after 1L, this person applies to transfer to NYU and gets in. Clearly, that transfer to NYU is much, much easier than the transfer from Fordham, where said person would have been maybe 75th percentile at best.

Just a possible way someone could game the system, I guess.


Why is a 3.5/165 "certainly not T14"? Those stats would put you in the lower quartile of many of those schools. The chances are obviously low, but "certainly not" is too strong, no?


Maybe. A good chunk of the lower quartile will be occupied by URMs (because most URMs with lower-mid, upper-mid and upper quartile scores will be admitted to higher schools and will only attend if money or location is an issue), while a lot of the rest will be splitters and reverse splitters who are only lower quartile in either LSAT or GPA, not both. Certainly not is overstating it, you're right, but the softs would have to be very good and the application early.

Danteshek
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby Danteshek » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:22 am

Just want to congratulate OP. Remember your friends form Touro.

newyorker69
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby newyorker69 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:34 am

Danteshek wrote:Just want to congratulate OP. Remember your friends form Touro.


thanks!

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traehekat
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby traehekat » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:14 am

mallard wrote:I doubt you'll have any trouble getting into CLS/NYU.


+1

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transferapps/

Join the group and check out the databases. I also recommend Arrow's thread that Ken pointed you to, as well as JayCutler'sCombover's blog which includes information on transferring (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77498).

You have a very good shot, I think, at NYU and CLS. You should be in everywhere else you apply in New York. Good luck and congrats on those grades, really impressive.

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby TheLuckyOne » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:02 pm

jack duluoz wrote:2. theluckyone sounds like an ignorant pile of you know what. They have a lot to learn.


WTF :roll:

How am I supposed to know how cool one must be in order to graduate #1 at TTTT? Unfortuantely, I'm not a law student yet and, thus, have 0 experience at this point. I've never researched anything on the lower ranked schools, let alone transfers. After reading the responses I was genuinely surprised and curious. I contstantly see folks comparing TTT UG GPAs with HYP, MIT etc, laughing at "easy majors" and so on.

Maybe you should consider what you call a person before actually doing it, you know. It's not Ok to call someone "pile of you know what" for merely asking a legitimate question.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:28 pm

TheLuckyOne, I think the above poster was actually trying to criticize BenJ but got mixed up because of the multiple quotes in each post. Note that BenJ has already deleted his post but can be read in the quote of one of my earlier posts in this thread.

araiza99
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Re: URM with 4.19 1L GPA - T4 transfer question (NY)

Postby araiza99 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:40 pm

Be prepared to go from top of class to average at CLS or NYU. But at least you will have 10X more opportunities.




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