3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

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BenJ
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3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:08 am

Might as well do this and see what you guys think. Applied late, applications submitted within the last week (2 Jan for UVA and GWU, 30 Dec for Yale, 29 Dec for the rest) because I retook the LSAT. I was so disappointed by the September score that I figured I was better off waiting and retaking than submitting.

GPA: 3.78 from a strong private institution (step below Ivy), History/Philosophy double major with History honors thesis to be completed
LSAT: 178 in Dec. '09, 167 in Sept. '09, included an addendum that just encouraged them to look at Dec. numbers.
PS was about my experiences as a Wikipedia administrator with copyright law, although I'm not actually all that interested in copyright law as a discipline.
LGBT, but didn't write a DS because I can't honestly think of any serious hardship it's caused me. I would have been lying/fudging. Mentioned LGBT in the PS, though, so even schools that didn't ask know.

Let me know what you think about admit, waitlist, deny and scholarship $$$. Ideally will stay in the Boston area to be with SO but not at all adverse to any of the locations on the list. Also, let me know if you think it would be worth submitting additional apps to Georgetown and UChicago in the next couple of days (less preferred than other T14s on the list, although I applied to UVA mainly because I got a fee waiver).

Yale
Harvard
Columbia
NYU
Cornell
UVA
BU
BC
GWU (heavily recruited as LGBT)

And two obvious-admit $$$ safeties (Lewis & Clark and Pace, most interested in urban/environmental law and they're really strong for lower-tier schools, considered Rutgers-Newark as well for a safety as I'm a NJ resident legally but decided against law school in Newark).

Also, does BC actually look at the SAT scores they ask for?
Last edited by BenJ on Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:18 am

BenJ wrote:Might as well do this and see what you guys think. Applied late, applications submitted within the last week (2 Jan for UVA and GWU, 30 Dec for Yale, 29 Dec for the rest) because I retook the LSAT. I was so disappointed by the September score that I figured I was better off waiting and retaking than submitting.

GPA: 3.78 from a strong private institution, History/Philosophy double major with History honors thesis to be completed
LSAT: 178 in Dec. '09, 167 in Sept. '09, included an addendum that just encouraged them to look at Dec. numbers.
PS was about my experiences as a Wikipedia administrator with copyright law, although I'm not actually all that interested in copyright law as a discipline.
LGBT, but didn't write a DS because I can't honestly think of any serious hardship it's caused me. I would have been lying/fudging. Mentioned LGBT in the PS, though, so even schools that didn't ask know.

Let me know what you think about admit, waitlist, deny and scholarship $$$. Ideally will stay in the Boston area to be with SO but not at all adverse to any of the locations on the list. Also, let me know if you think it would be worth submitting additional apps to Georgetown and UChicago in the next couple of days (less preferred than other T14s on the list, although I applied to UVA mainly because I got a fee waiver).

Yale
Harvard
Columbia
NYU
Cornell
UVA
BU
BC
GWU (heavily recruited as LGBT)

And two obvious-admit $$$ safeties (Lewis & Clark and Pace, most interested in urban/environmental law and they're really strong for lower-tier schools).


I wouldn't go to anything but HYS if I had your numbers. Even if it meant waiting a year and trying again. Maybe take $$$ at UVA. I wouldn't touch BC, BU, GWU, L&C, or Pace for any amount.

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:28 am

The big retest leap is what makes me inclined to settle for $$$ at a T30 school; Harvard supposedly averages, for example, and then I've just got a 172.5, which can get in but is below the median, and my GPA is also below median a bit (don't think the double major and consistent heavy course load ameliorates it). Plus, I'm not sure what I'd do with myself in the interim--surely it will look bad when applying next year if my summer job is mediocre. And I won't hear back from Harvard and Yale until too late to get a really good summer job like I had last summer (Bloomberg campaign).

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iShotFirst
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby iShotFirst » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:37 am

With those numbers I don't think anyone will care about your summer job. If you're really worried about it why not just volunteer internationally for a summer?

09042014
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:42 am

BenJ wrote:The big retest leap is what makes me inclined to settle for $$$ at a T30 school; Harvard supposedly averages, for example, and then I've just got a 172.5, which can get in but is below the median, and my GPA is also below median a bit (don't think the double major and consistent heavy course load ameliorates it). Plus, I'm not sure what I'd do with myself in the interim--surely it will look bad when applying next year if my summer job is mediocre. And I won't hear back from Harvard and Yale until too late to get a really good summer job like I had last summer (Bloomberg campaign).


So apply for jobs now. Not just summer jobs but real jobs. If you get into H or Y, then quit. I really doubt Harvard will average in your case.

I don't think you'll have to settle for $$$ at T30. I'm guessing you'll get some money at Columbia, and NYU.

I actually don't think applying now will hurt you that much.

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:45 am

tjeffery wrote:With those numbers I don't think anyone will care about your summer job. If you're really worried about it why not just volunteer internationally for a summer?


It'd be the only thing different between applications (well, that and grades for the last two semesters). I imagine that matters. I suppose this is a discussion to have after I know where I'm in, though.

Thanks for the confidence boost, though, guys. Fingers crossed. More comments appreciated, too :)

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:05 am

Well, if you want Boston, BU and BC both have comparable starting salaries and placement to the T14. I'm actually interested in hearing what schools are keen on giving a boost in recruitment to LGBT, so I'm more asking than helping on that front. You, as I'm sure you know, are a lock at either (and were with the first score).

That being said, you absolutely MUST apply to every T14 you'd consider going to. With a 178, you have numbers that can get you in anywhere - I doubt Harvard will equate you to a 172.5. Cornell might give you great money, and Ithaca is nearly matchless in both its progressive attitude and primal beauty (but I post that everywhere I can!). NYU, especially being that you are LGBT, seems a lock. In fact, besides Yale, I'd bet good money at a low rate of return that you'll hit every one (minus a felony or a personal statement with feces stains). Yale is still a very good shot, but they are unpredictable - seemingly random even.

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:19 am

kwhitegocubs wrote:I'm actually interested in hearing what schools are keen on giving a boost in recruitment to LGBT, so I'm more asking than helping on that front. You, as I'm sure you know, are a lock at either (and were with the first score).


I was pretty confident in the bottom 3 with the first score, yes. (I'm not sure if "lock" is the right word, but very likely, certainly.) As I mentioned in the OP, I got heavily recruited by GWU, even a personalized letter from their Lambda Legal chapter heads. Not a peep from anywhere else about LGBT (although I did get a bunch of emails from Regent asking me to apply, lol). I don't think NYU would give an LGBT boost, either; if anything, they might get a glut of LGBT applicants.

That being said, you absolutely MUST apply to every T14 you'd consider going to. With a 178, you have numbers that can get you in anywhere - I doubt Harvard will equate you to a 172.5. Cornell might give you great money, and Ithaca is nearly matchless in both its progressive attitude and primal beauty (but I post that everywhere I can!). NYU, especially being that you are LGBT, seems a lock. In fact, besides Yale, I'd bet good money at a low rate of return that you'll hit every one (minus a felony or a personal statement with feces stains). Yale is still a very good shot, but they are unpredictable - seemingly random even.


I guess that means shelling out the dough for UChicago and Georgetown. At this stage, I'm partially hesitant because of the cost of applications as I'm pretty certain I'll get in at one or two places in the T14 I've applied to already. And, yes, Cornell definitely seems awesome. I visited for UG applications ages ago, and it was beautiful, and I have some friends UG there.

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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby Sourpunch » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:44 am

You will get into a lot of schools, perhaps even one of HYS. If you don't plan on going to BU or BC, withdraw once you get the acceptance so other people can get in:).

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GordonCole
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby GordonCole » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:46 pm

I've got the exact same LSAT scores and GPA, so for my sake I hope you do really well. Seriously though, I think Harvard and Yale are tough to predict but you're set.

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:27 pm

GordonCole wrote:I've got the exact same LSAT scores and GPA, so for my sake I hope you do really well. Seriously though, I think Harvard and Yale are tough to predict but you're set.


Hope so. Good luck to you, application twin.

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englawyer
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby englawyer » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:25 am

hmm you will be a good test of harvard's retake policy. good luck!

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:48 am

don't bother with cornell or chicago if they didn't give you fee waivers unless you really, really want to go to one of them.

I say guaranteed in at either NYU or Columbia (probably both) and a pretty good shot at Harvard.
Harvard, while considering retakes, does not seem to purely average them..

For example my friend had a 169, 171, 178.. and a decent GPA (3.9+) and was basically auto-admitted early in the cycle. Also the top UG will be a boost at Harvard too.

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scribelaw
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby scribelaw » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:53 am

I have one anecdotal thing on HLS, but I have a friend who is a 1L there who got a mid-160s LSAT, then retook and scored in the low 170s. She got in (high GPA, great softs, etc.), but I seriously doubt that would have happened if HLS had averaged her at ~168.

Also, I just applied last week too. As long as your apps are in, I don't think it's that late. You obviously won't get the Sept-Oct app bump, but I don't think it'll be killer either...Now people applying 2-3 weeks from now, they're going to get squeezed...

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:28 am

Scratch the "being a good test of Harvard's retake policy". I did something incredibly, phenomenally stupid with my app that will almost certainly doom it regardless. I discovered the error last night and sent an e-mail correcting it without their prompting, but that shouldn't make a difference. Fortunately, this doesn't affect anywhere else. I just wish I'd submitted my Harvard app a few days later, as I would have caught this as I became better at putting apps together while doing other schools. *sigh* I'm too embarrassed to even mention what it was here.

I guess it's waiting until next cycle unless I get good money or into Yale. Although I guess I'm now a good test of "Is there any stupid mistake you can do with an app that will automatically disqualify you?"

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nattybro
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby nattybro » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:35 am

Come on now, let's hear it. It can't be as bad as you say.

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:45 am

Oh, yes, it can. Ugh. Fine. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I think, although I doubt it.

My initial application had no resume attached, at all. I could have sworn I attached the resume, but I admit that, immediately after submitting the BU and BC apps, I didn't check the resume on the PDF because I was uploading the same file. It might not have been there. I have to assume that leaving out a required part of the application completely gives me no chance at all, especially late enough in the cycle, when they're looking for a reason to deny people. Obviously, I e-mailed them my resume as soon as I realized.
Last edited by BenJ on Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

ughOSU
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby ughOSU » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:46 am

That's definitely not that bad.

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englawyer
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby englawyer » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:48 am

BenJ wrote:Oh, yes, it can. Ugh. Fine. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I think, although I doubt it.

My initial application had no resume attached, at all. I could have sworn I attached the resume, but I admit that, immediately after submitting the BU and BC apps, I didn't check the resume on the PDF because I was uploading the same file. It might not have been there. I have to assume that leaving out a required part of the application completely gives me no chance at all, especially late enough in the cycle, when they're looking for a reason to deny people. Obviously, I e-mailed them my resume as soon as I realized.


they will want you to send it via snail mail.

"Unfortunately, we are unable to accept letters of recommendation, updates or additions to your application via email or fax. Please mail your materials to us via the postal service and be sure to include your name and either your SSN or LSAC number. If you would like to receive confirmation that we have received the information, please include a self-addressed, stamped postcard that we can return to you when your items arrive.



Our mailing address is below.

Harvard Law School J.D. Admissions
Austin Hall 203
1515 Massachusetts Avenue
Cambridge, MA 02138"

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:49 am

Thanks, englawyer.

Maybe I just need some time away from law school applications. Who would ever guess I'd wish for break to end? But I need to get back to school so I can't obsess about my applications 24/7.

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nattybro
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby nattybro » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:51 am

BenJ wrote:Oh, yes, it can. Ugh. Fine. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I think, although I doubt it.

My initial application had no resume attached, at all. I could have sworn I attached the resume, but I admit that, immediately after submitting the BU and BC apps, I didn't check the resume on the PDF because I was uploading the same file. It might not have been there. I have to assume that leaving out a required part of the application completely gives me no chance at all, especially late enough in the cycle, when they're looking for a reason to deny people. Obviously, I e-mailed them my resume as soon as I realized.


This site amazes me sometimes

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:56 am

nattybro wrote:
BenJ wrote:Oh, yes, it can. Ugh. Fine. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I think, although I doubt it.

My initial application had no resume attached, at all. I could have sworn I attached the resume, but I admit that, immediately after submitting the BU and BC apps, I didn't check the resume on the PDF because I was uploading the same file. It might not have been there. I have to assume that leaving out a required part of the application completely gives me no chance at all, especially late enough in the cycle, when they're looking for a reason to deny people. Obviously, I e-mailed them my resume as soon as I realized.


This site amazes me sometimes


Hopefully you just think I'm insane rather than the mistake being a big one. Applications just get me really nervous ever since I had a horrible experience/really bad luck/a malevolent LOR writer while applying to undergrad.

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englawyer
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby englawyer » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:00 am

BenJ wrote:
nattybro wrote:
BenJ wrote:Oh, yes, it can. Ugh. Fine. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I think, although I doubt it.

My initial application had no resume attached, at all. I could have sworn I attached the resume, but I admit that, immediately after submitting the BU and BC apps, I didn't check the resume on the PDF because I was uploading the same file. It might not have been there. I have to assume that leaving out a required part of the application completely gives me no chance at all, especially late enough in the cycle, when they're looking for a reason to deny people. Obviously, I e-mailed them my resume as soon as I realized.


This site amazes me sometimes


Hopefully you just think I'm insane rather than the mistake being a big one. Applications just get me really nervous ever since I had a horrible experience/really bad luck/a malevolent LOR writer while applying to undergrad.


im pretty sure he means you're insane. that sounds awful though eek

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nattybro
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby nattybro » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:11 am

BenJ wrote:
nattybro wrote:
BenJ wrote:Oh, yes, it can. Ugh. Fine. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I think, although I doubt it.

My initial application had no resume attached, at all. I could have sworn I attached the resume, but I admit that, immediately after submitting the BU and BC apps, I didn't check the resume on the PDF because I was uploading the same file. It might not have been there. I have to assume that leaving out a required part of the application completely gives me no chance at all, especially late enough in the cycle, when they're looking for a reason to deny people. Obviously, I e-mailed them my resume as soon as I realized.


This site amazes me sometimes


Hopefully you just think I'm insane rather than the mistake being a big one. Applications just get me really nervous ever since I had a horrible experience/really bad luck/a malevolent LOR writer while applying to undergrad.


Yeah I don't think it will be any problem at all - worst case your application will be delayed a few days while the resume arrives via snail mail. I just hope your email to admissions was not as hysterical as your posts here.

Sorry to hear about the undergrad experience. I always suspected my guidance councilor wrote me a bad rec (rejected from all my top choices with a 1600 SAT and decent grades). Good luck with your cycle - we have pretty similar numbers.

BenJ
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Re: 3.78 GPA / 178 retest from 167 LSAT, late applying

Postby BenJ » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:38 am

nattybro wrote:
BenJ wrote:
nattybro wrote:
BenJ wrote:Oh, yes, it can. Ugh. Fine. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I think, although I doubt it.

My initial application had no resume attached, at all. I could have sworn I attached the resume, but I admit that, immediately after submitting the BU and BC apps, I didn't check the resume on the PDF because I was uploading the same file. It might not have been there. I have to assume that leaving out a required part of the application completely gives me no chance at all, especially late enough in the cycle, when they're looking for a reason to deny people. Obviously, I e-mailed them my resume as soon as I realized.


This site amazes me sometimes


Hopefully you just think I'm insane rather than the mistake being a big one. Applications just get me really nervous ever since I had a horrible experience/really bad luck/a malevolent LOR writer while applying to undergrad.


Yeah I don't think it will be any problem at all - worst case your application will be delayed a few days while the resume arrives via snail mail. I just hope your email to admissions was not as hysterical as your posts here.

Sorry to hear about the undergrad experience. I always suspected my guidance councilor wrote me a bad rec (rejected from all my top choices with a 1600 SAT and decent grades). Good luck with your cycle - we have pretty similar numbers.


Hahaha, no, I was actually very calm and collected in my e-mail; just asked them to include "the attached document, which was elided from my application submitted via LSAC", gave them my full name, LSAC# and last four digits of SSN, and apologized for the trouble. Outside of the admissions process, I'm usually an incredibly stable, calm person (so much that it gets remarked upon by others); please don't think I'm a mental case. Good luck to you, too.




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