Hi all,

I took some photos of Duke Law School, I had trouble posting these photos onto this website so I uploaded them onto Snapfish. Maybe Ken can figure it out.

Here is the Snapfish link (Note to view photos click on the link that says you already have an account and then type in Ken's email (kendeleon@hotmail.com and the password bunny):

http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare ... _=44980237

Bear in mind, photos may not be indicative of a typical day because these photos were taken on a Sunday morning in December and students are in the midst of finals.

Here are my preliminary thoughts:

Setting:

The Duke law school building had the traditional Duke architecture on the outside. Once inside, as seen by the pictures, the facilities were renovated and state-of-the-art. The classrooms and faculty offices were renovated. The library seemed to have been untouched by renovations, not sure if they plan to renovate the library or preserve its traditional feel. Besides the library and a lounge in the basement, I did not see many study spaces for students. But hey, Duke's campus is large enough that you can find room somewhere.

(The law school building is located next to the business school building. The business school building was very impressive and one of the most impressive buildings I have ever seen with glass ceilings and much more real estate (in terms of classroom, study space, etc.) than the law school.)

Duke is nestled in a forest-like setting. Duke is located in Durham, NC. Durham offers many highly rated ethnic restaurants. But Durham is not the safest neighborhood. Unless there is a minor league Durham Bulls baseball game, locals usually do not hang out in Durham. Students can easily take a 20 minute drive to Franklin Street near UNC Chapel Hill, which offers more of a college-town feel. I did not sense that Duke had much of a college-town feel, although a current Duke student can give you a better assessment.

There are not many things you can do without a car. There was one local street, with about maybe 10-20 stores/restaurants that students can walk to but otherwise, driving is required.

Significant real estate development around the vicinity of Duke’s campus offers new and probably affordable housing for law students. You can probably get a nice 1-bedroom apartment for about $500 or 2-bedroom for about $700. In general, North Carolina cost of living is very affordable and is significantly lower than places like New York or California. Obviously, NY and California probably have more exciting things to do outside of school. In my opinion, Durham is a sleepy town with many restaurants closing around 9pm Sunday-Thursday. (Of course, you can always find a Walmart that opens 24 hours!)

If you intend to practice in NY, a majority of Duke Law School students take the bar in NY and are highly recruited by top NY firms. It wouldn't be a bad idea to live in Durham for 3 years, save a lot of money!, and then move onto the Big Apple. Almost 50 percent of Duke graduates end up in NY, with about 30 percent in DC, and 25 percent in North Carolina.

Stats

Here is the quick profile from the brochure I took:


Duke Law School Class of 2009:
205 JD students enrolling come from 36 different states, eight countries, and represent 110 different undergraduate institutions.

[b][b]40% are recent college grads
45% graduated 1-4 years ago
15% graduated 5 years or more ago
Fluent in 16 languages[/b]
More than half of the class expressed interest in public service
Background include science, teaching, education, entertainment, the arts, politics, public policy, government, business, technology, sports, and non-profit sector work.
25% of the class intends to pursue a joint degree
75% of class has an undergraduate GPA of 3.66 or higher and the median GPA was 3.78
The median LSAT score was 168[/b]

The great thing about Duke's academic joint degree program is that you only have to take the LSAT and Duke will take care of the rest. That's pretty impressive because most law schools require you to take th GRE. I am not sure about the MBA/JD joint degree, that joint degree will probably require you to take the GMAT.

Link to joint degree:
http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/joint.html


Student body:

Duke students are known to be highly driven, motivated, and intelligent. From my visit, students seemed focused and friendly (Cheers to Southern hospitality!). Many were in sweatshirts and sweatpants hustling and bustling into the library to study for the finals. In the midst of finals, it was evident that students were under a lot of stress but that is to be expected at a great institution like Duke.

To be continued...............

I have to get some things done, More of my op-ed later this week!

Ken's profile on Duke Law School can be found at:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/duke-law-school.html

Hope it helps.


Enjoy!

I lived in Durham, right off of Duke's campus for a summer, and spent two spring breaks there during undergrad.

For the most part, Duke students do not hang out that much in Durham, but mostly confine themselves to the campus or will head to Franklin St. in nearby Chapel Hill or into Raleigh. Ninth Street, bordering East Campus, is a strip that Duke students frequent. It has many restaurants and bars. There is a mall in Durham, but many students I knew headed out to a mall called Southpoint, where there is more stores, a movie theatre and several restaurants.

And how can we talk about Duke without talking about Duke basketball?! Unlike undergrads, grad students only have to camp out ("tent") for one night (I believe) for student tickets. I personally love Duke, and I would love to go to the "Gothic Wonderland" for law school.

To finish off my thoughts.

Yes, I agree with kmoneys, Duke basketball is a BIG DEAL on campus. After another forgetable football season, Duke students cannot wait for basketball. Duke's rivalry with UNC is legendary. I am not sure what priority law students get in terms of first dibs for basketball tickets but Duke basketball tickets is a rare commodity but well worth the price of admissions!

Without a doubt, Duke has a strong national reputation and Duke law students are gobbled up fast by top law firms around the country. Duke attracts a good number of international students and from what I hear, Duke has a decent pull internationally, partly because Duke's business school is world-renown attracting many internationals and thus, the Duke name can travel far.

Although Duke's been in the national spotlight for the infamous lacrosse scandal, it doesn't seem that Duke's reputation as an academic powerhouse was affected greatly. When someone graduates from Duke, you know you're getting someone smart and highly capable. I believe the school did a good job in damage control and although the trial is still on-going, Duke seems to have recovered and are ready to move on.

But one important aspect that was uncovered in the lacrosse scandal was Duke relationship, or lack there of, with Durham and the local community. It is apparent that Duke and its students need to do a better job of reaching out to the local community and its people, have open discussions in order to reconcile any racial tensions (Durham is a historically poor black community with a rather high crime rate and the socioeconomic divide is very evident between Duke students and Durham residents). I am not an expert in these matters and have no more comments on it, you can google this Duke situation online and read endlessly about it. Maybe someone can work those thoughts into their personal statements, optional essays, etc. when applying to Duke and impress the admissions committee! If done right, without sacifricing the "getting to know you part" of the essay, it can be very powerful and a deal-breaker. In my opinion, such an issue can work very well in a law school personal statement, probably not so much in a medical school personal statement. Ken, maybe you have some words of wisdom regarding whether or not to incorporate such a conversial issue into a personal statement/optional essay.

Lastly, the campus setting does seem to foster a sense of unity among its students and with close to 100 percent employment rate, I would expect students openly helping each other succeed. The Southern charm does seem to rub off on its out-of-town students and helps create a laid-back atmosphere. In short, you can't go wrong if you attend Duke Law!

Duke is known to accept students early in the process. Reading some posts on this forum, I believe there have been acceptances to Duke already and it's only early December (Congrats to those already in at Duke!). That is probably a smart strategy for Duke since those accepted to Duke have a high probably of being accepted to the other T14 schools that are located in larger legal markets such as New York, Boston, DC, LA, or Chicago. Up agianst the legal markets in NY, Boston, DC, LA, or Chicago; Durham will, unfortunately, lose each and every time (But hey, at least you can brag about Duke basketball!).

So apply as early as you can. With a median LSAT of 168 and median GPA of 3.78, for those applying, I'll conclude with a cheesy StarWars quote, LET THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!

definitely agree w/ yankee on the town-gown relations. definitely not the best.

YankeeDoodleDandy and Kmoneys,

Thank you for the excellent insight on Duke. Regarding whether to address the Duke lacrosse scandal in your personal statement, I can generalize the question and explore whether one should include a controversial topic in their personal statement (which this one surely is at Duke with the wound so fresh).

Whether to take a big risk on a personal statement is determined in large part by your numbers. If the school you are applying to is a safety school (such as applying to Duke with a 175 and a 3.85), then avoid controversy because just maintaining the status quo should lead to an acceptance.

However, if your numbers make this school a large reach (such as applying to Duke with a 165 and a 3.5), then crafting a controversial personal statement may be a calculated risk worth taking for the presumption for this person would that they would be rejected unless they really stand out.

If your numbers match up about equal with a law school, avoid the controversy. In sum, taking a calculated risk in a personal statement only makes sense if there is a need to stand out. Thus, having two personal statements, one less controversial for safety and likely schools, and another for reach schools is an option to consider.

YankeeDoodleDandy thanks for the detailed profile which will be beneficial to those who do not have the time or money to visit Duke. Kmoneys, thanks for being such a great part of the forum and congratulations on passing the 1000 post mark, putting you as the 3rd most prolific poster on the forum. Cheers to you both!

I also forgot to mention one aspect of Duke's location that can be only be matched by Stanford and Berkeley's proximity to Silicon Valley.

Duke's IP program is consistently ranked in the Top 10 in the country. To those unfamiliar with the area, Duke is located in a strategic location called Research Triangle Park. Research Triangle Park (RTP) is often referred to as the Silicon Valley of the East and is the largest high-tech research park in the world. There are more than 100 research and development firms in RTP with the two largest employers being IBM (I suppose now called Lenovo) and GlaxoSmithKline. RTP is an IP goldmine, only second to Silicon Valley in California. Those interested in IP should strongly consider Duke's program and its valuable location.

Due to RTP, new interstate highways are being built and the housing market is hot. There are a significant number of transplanted Northerners and Californians. Many who have worked in either NJ or Silicon Valley have moved to this area for jobs in science and engineering. Those who come from NJ escape the cold weather and look for affordable housing. Those from California come to look for affordable housing. Houses that would costs about $600,000 - $800,000 in the Bay Area cost about $150,00 - $200,000 in NC.

Because of the influx of out-of-towners for education and job, the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill, NC area is not your typical Southern town (Although you can still find sweet tea, grits, a yes, Waffle House!). In about 5-10 years, the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area is poised to become the next Atlanta, GA. In short, the tremenduous growth opportunity has lead to this area being ranked the Top 10 Best Big Cities in America by CNN (I believe it was ranked #4 in 2006 and #1 a year ago): http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag ... 55000.html

Just on the news this morning:

Early admisions to Duke is down 20% this year and much fewer applicants from major metropolitan areas on the East Coast where the media coverage of the Duke lacrosse case has been most publicized. What does that mean? East Coast applicants, this might be your oppurtunity!! .


And that officially concludes my story on Duke. The end! Time for UNC Chapel Hill.........

Controversial topics can be interesting. But do NOT mention the lacrosse scandal in your application. That would just be bringing up a very sore subject.

I thought Duke's online virtual tour was pretty slick:

http://www.law.duke.edu/webcast/virtualtour.html

I'm surprised more law schools don't have this sort of thing on their websites--real students walking around, talking about the program. It works.

up_late,

Yeah, it seems like the Lacrosse scandal is water under the bridge now. The accuser doesn't seem to have a legitimate case.

I had a great visit at Duke today. Will post more when I'm less tired!

I had some great, long conversations with students about all kinds of things, from classes, to housing, to jobs, to special programs. Plus, the admissions and financial aid staff were very nice and helpful.

Duke Campus: We did have the opportunity to walk around a little, and I was wowed by the quad over by Duke Chapel. I loved the old European style of architecture!

Duke Law Building: They've just opened up a huge addition (it appeared to be larger than the old part) to the law school, which is beautiful and modern, including clinic space and office space. The older part, though you could tell it was older, especially down on the second floor where the vending and cafe and lockers were, still contained beautifully renovated classrooms that are completely wired, airy, and with new-looking furnishings.

Next year, the law library will be closed for extensive renovations. The books will be moved to the chemistry library across the street. It will only be for next school year. This is an inconvenience, but the students I talked to seem to feel that the biggest use of the library is as a gathering place, in this electronic age.

When the renovations are done, there will be an expansion, including a huge atrium to serve as a gathering place for students.

Classes: I sat in on Professor Chemerinsky's 1L Con Law class, which definitely did not employ Socratic method! It was an interesting lecture, and there was a lot of class participation, in terms of both asking questions and giving answers. The 2L and 3L students I talked to told me there were only two professors known for using Socratic method and a few more who used some sort of modified version, like writing a state on the blackboard, and everyone from that state knew that he or she was going to be called on that day.

To be continued...

Had a visit; here's my notes. I know there are typos, but I'm exhausted.

General Feelings:
Strong program made more elite by a high demand for having attorneys from all T-14 schools with a low supply of students from Duke. Made them sort of a novelty. Overall a solid program overall that has almost placed them back in my front running.

Students:
Everyone I spoke with said they were genuinely happy to be there and they liked the school. One individual complained of high percentage of “losers” in the school, but later said it was better than most law schools.

The students were well catered to in many respects, (it was pointed out to me that they “paid enough” for law school).

A high amount of respect appeared to exist for each other, despite a high level of political, racial, and religious diversity. As was described by one student, the individuals who are selected are supposed to by “pieces of a puzzle” that come together to complete a ideal picture. I saw nothing that made me think it wasn’t working.

Faculty:
I only sat in on one class, Torts. The professor was supposedly the one of the only professors at Duke who taught in the Socratic method. It was not very intimidating. Though I may be completely wrong, the professor seemed to be asking the student about the important generalities of a pre-assigned case. Though the professor was a bit aggressive at times, she seemed to be giving the student every opportunity to save face and answer well.

The students stated that the professors were all highly intelligent. One of the Dean’s stated that 4 areas were targeted that Duke students were likely to engage in: Constitutional, International, Banking(?), and Technology. All major hiring of faculty for the past 5 years has been of big-whigs in these fields. The focus of Duke law, he stated, was to organize deeply around these principal topic areas. A student later confirmed this, stating that professors overlap their areas of expertise in these areas, and that through this, extensive individual study into areas mixing these fields was possible.


Staff:
Respectful, professional, and seemingly capable. I was thoroughly impressed by the friendly and relaxed manner that was present in every office, while still maintaining a very professional manner. It was evident that they were there to help make life better for their students. Based upon what I heard from students, it was working.

Career Prospects:
I was repeatedly told that they were being “bred for corporate life”, but that it was very easy to pursue other interests. One example was that at a school of 600 total law students, an office with 4 individuals was devoted solely toward getting students placed in public work. This was independent from a general career service office.

3L’s said that nearly everyone had good jobs waiting for them. They were able to largely pick and choose among offers. JD/LLM naturally appeared to be at an advantage internationally, having studied overseas and finding easy placement during the 1L summer. To my surprise, I was informed that that JD/LLM students had few limitations despite their academic focusing.

One potential problem is lack of alumni mentors in specific fields. Though I have heard good reports of alumni involvement, with only 200 law students being sent each year, and the vast majority going corporate, a student wanting to work in a certain niche of public service may become the trailblazer. (For better or worse)

I spent a week living on the Duke campus with an Institute for Humane Studies seminar back in the summer of 2005.

The Duke Law building was under renovation/construction while I was there, so my comments are relatively limited:

1) The Duke Law Library is gorgeous. Multiple levels, good resources. Many carrels available, fantastic lighting, lovely study environments. The bottom floor of the library is stuffed - hand-cranked rolling bookshelves that are extremely useful once one is accustomed to them. Along the back side of this floor is a wall of older and rarer texts, including 3-5 century old texts on English Common Law and American Colonial Law. I was in love.

2) My time was spent on the undergrad campus. The campus is simply gorgeous. The Student Center has nearly everything one would need with coffeeshops/restaurants, the bookstore, and a drugstore/grocery store. All overpriced, of course. Duke Gardens and the Chapel are lovely, and I would find myself studying in a back corner pew of the chapel when visiting hours were open.

3) The city of Durham is known as the ghetto of the research triangle in the Carolinas. There's no way to get around that. That said, it makes cost of living VERY cheap - you can buy a 3 bedroom 2 bath house for $50,000. That's approximately $300 monthly with no down payment. Imagine having a roommate who paid $250 rent. You cover utilities and repairs/upkeep, and you've got a phenomenal deal.

Any stats on this or is that just the impression that most visitors get?

Well at least my car will be safe.

Is this crime issue stopping anyone from applying/attending? I know I'm definitely having second thoughts.

It shouldn't. The school itself is safe and isn't right in the middle of a rough area (Penn, Chicago).

Tch! Those schools have other things to worry about like being in the middle of the ANTARCTIC. Have you SEEN the pics Erin posted?

or USC.....

I think Erin posted pics of Northwestern

I hear its comparable to NYC weather though, although chicago is in a wind tunnel and consequently has stronger winds

shouldnt be too bad