Michigan vs Duke for ASW

(Where, When and What Did You Think)
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GoldHattedGatsby
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Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby GoldHattedGatsby » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:41 am

I was admitted to both Michigan and Duke at the end of last week (while I was already out of town at the GULC ASW), and now I have to decide which school's ASW to attend on the weekend of April 5th. I don't have a strong preference one way or the other right now and need to do some research, but what do y'all think? For those that have attended both, was one significantly better/more enjoyable/more informative/whatnot than the other? Whichever ASW I skip I'll most likely visit the school for a normal tour at some point, but I do like the added benefits of an ASW like meeting potential fellow classmates and more interaction with and information from the staff. If it makes any difference, I'm from the Midwest and interested in Intellectual Property/Tech/Entertainment Law. Oh and I'm still waiting on news of $$$ from both.

TL;DR: Should I attend the Michigan or Duke ASW the first weekend in April?

curious66
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby curious66 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:25 am

GoldHattedGatsby wrote:I was admitted to both Michigan and Duke at the end of last week (while I was already out of town at the GULC ASW), and now I have to decide which school's ASW to attend on the weekend of April 5th. I don't have a strong preference one way or the other right now and need to do some research, but what do y'all think? For those that have attended both, was one significantly better/more enjoyable/more informative/whatnot than the other? Whichever ASW I skip I'll most likely visit the school for a normal tour at some point, but I do like the added benefits of an ASW like meeting potential fellow classmates and more interaction with and information from the staff. If it makes any difference, I'm from the Midwest and interested in Intellectual Property/Tech/Entertainment Law. Oh and I'm still waiting on news of $$$ from both.

TL;DR: Should I attend the Michigan or Duke ASW the first weekend in April?


Wow, tough choice. If one of them is giving you $$, then go to that ASW. Otherwise, just go to the one that you would rank higher on your preference list -- schools are very comparable for the most part, Michigan has a slight edge in rankings and prestige (campus is incredible btw too), and Duke has much better weather and is outperforming in terms of job placement.

texas1990
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby texas1990 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:16 pm

I just came back from my visit to Michigan (not even on ASW), thinking I'd hate it and it'd make my decision-making process easier. I was wrong. The place is amazing. Ann Arbor is amazing. Cheap drinks, pretty good-looking people, beautiful campus, and loads of dedication of funds to the law school program. It went from the bottom of my list to the top. I'd visit it over Duke if I were you.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:32 pm

texas1990 wrote:I just came back from my visit to Michigan (not even on ASW), thinking I'd hate it and it'd make my decision-making process easier. I was wrong. The place is amazing. Ann Arbor is amazing. Cheap drinks, pretty good-looking people, beautiful campus, and loads of dedication of funds to the law school program. It went from the bottom of my list to the top. I'd visit it over Duke if I were you.


Just wait until January. If those are your criteria, Duke is cheaper, has better weather, also has a beautiful campus, and isn't in the middle of dying state. Plus our class is half the size, our employment stats are better, we're reasonably close to DC/NYC, etc.

texas1990
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby texas1990 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:09 pm

quakeroats wrote:
texas1990 wrote:I just came back from my visit to Michigan (not even on ASW), thinking I'd hate it and it'd make my decision-making process easier. I was wrong. The place is amazing. Ann Arbor is amazing. Cheap drinks, pretty good-looking people, beautiful campus, and loads of dedication of funds to the law school program. It went from the bottom of my list to the top. I'd visit it over Duke if I were you.


Just wait until January. If those are your criteria, Duke is cheaper, has better weather, also has a beautiful campus, and isn't in the middle of dying state. Plus our class is half the size, our employment stats are better, we're reasonably close to DC/NYC, etc.


someone was dinged at michigan lol. visited duke, sat in a class, spoke to students, not as impressed. but i assume you are a current student, not a prospective, so you get to be biased.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:33 pm

texas1990 wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
texas1990 wrote:I just came back from my visit to Michigan (not even on ASW), thinking I'd hate it and it'd make my decision-making process easier. I was wrong. The place is amazing. Ann Arbor is amazing. Cheap drinks, pretty good-looking people, beautiful campus, and loads of dedication of funds to the law school program. It went from the bottom of my list to the top. I'd visit it over Duke if I were you.


Just wait until January. If those are your criteria, Duke is cheaper, has better weather, also has a beautiful campus, and isn't in the middle of dying state. Plus our class is half the size, our employment stats are better, we're reasonably close to DC/NYC, etc.


someone was dinged at michigan lol. visited duke, sat in a class, spoke to students, not as impressed. but i assume you are a current student, not a prospective, so you get to be biased.


Note that I didn't say, OMG Duke is amaze, you should totes go!!!! Each of the points I mentioned is something you really need to think about before you decide on Michigan, particularly the employment-related ones.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:51 pm

Just to drive the point home, ATL posted something from TaxProf you might find interesting:

Elite Outcomes (Combined “Big Law, More or Less” and “Federal Clerks” categories)
1. Stanford University 72.9%
2. Columbia University 69.5%
3. University of Pennsylvania 67.1%
4. Yale University 66.4%
5. Harvard University 65.0%
6. Northwestern University 61.4%
7. Duke University 56.1%
8. University of Chicago 54.2%
9. New York University 54.1%
10. University of California—Berkeley 51.3%

Big Law, More or Less (Number of graduates employed in law firm / total graduates * graduates employed in law firms consisting of more than 100 lawyers, full-time, long-term)
1. Columbia University 61.4%
2. University of Pennsylvania 58.0%
3. Northwestern University 53.3%
4. Stanford University 49.5%
5. Harvard University 48.7%
6. Duke University 45.0%
7. University of Chicago 44.9%
8. New York University 43.1%
9. University of California—Berkeley 41.6%
10. Cornell University 38.8%


Note which school appears on both lists and which appears on neither.


http://abovethelaw.com/2013/03/which-la ... lite-jobs/
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... -2014.html

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GoldHattedGatsby
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby GoldHattedGatsby » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:22 pm

Oh Snap, DFW

But in all seriousness, as a Duke student, do you feel I would be sufficiently able to get a good feel for Duke (Atmosphere, Student body, etc) by visiting at a time other than ASW? Do you think ASW is critical to a full understanding of Duke?

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:35 pm

GoldHattedGatsby wrote:Oh Snap, DFW

But in all seriousness, as a Duke student, do you feel I would be sufficiently able to get a good feel for Duke (Atmosphere, Student body, etc) by visiting at a time other than ASW? Do you think ASW is critical to a full understanding of Duke?


ASWs are staged events designed to sell the school to you, so I don't think you'll miss anything if you don't go that you need to see. Honestly, ASW is a bad time to get a good feel for a school and for law school in general. If it's free, take your pick and enjoy the weekend, but don't expect it to give you a realistic picture and don't make any decisions based on it. If you want to figure out what Duke/Michigan is like, visit some other time.

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zoidberg86
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby zoidberg86 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:21 pm

GoldHattedGatsby wrote:Oh Snap, DFW

But in all seriousness, as a Duke student, do you feel I would be sufficiently able to get a good feel for Duke (Atmosphere, Student body, etc) by visiting at a time other than ASW? Do you think ASW is critical to a full understanding of Duke?


I just went to the Michigan ASW and it was not only extremely informational, but really fun. I'd highly recommend anyone considering Michigan to attend. I didn't think I'd like a small town environment, but fell in love with Ann Arbor and will be attending this fall.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:52 pm

zoidberg86 wrote:
GoldHattedGatsby wrote:Oh Snap, DFW

But in all seriousness, as a Duke student, do you feel I would be sufficiently able to get a good feel for Duke (Atmosphere, Student body, etc) by visiting at a time other than ASW? Do you think ASW is critical to a full understanding of Duke?


I just went to the Michigan ASW and it was not only extremely informational, but really fun. I'd highly recommend anyone considering Michigan to attend. I didn't think I'd like a small town environment, but fell in love with Ann Arbor and will be attending this fall.


I'm sure it was. That's the way the ASW was designed, and your experience likely differed materially from what the school is like every other day of the year.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:00 pm

Fun weather facts:

Ann Arbor gets 53 days of snow in an average year that total to 57.3 inches.
Durham gets 0.7 days of snow in an average year that total to 1.9 inches.

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Entchen
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby Entchen » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:09 pm

quakeroats wrote:Duke . . . has better weather

quakeroats wrote:Fun weather facts:

Ann Arbor gets 53 days of snow in an average year that total to 57.3 inches.
Durham gets 0.7 days of snow in an average year that total to 1.9 inches.


Why do people equate snow with "bad weather"? Snow is awesome. Those numbers, to me, mean Michigan has (significantly) preferable weather. To each his own, but don't act like your opinion is objectively right.

I went dog-sledding this term in the UP and it was amazing. Also xc skiing a bunch of times.


/tangent

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:18 pm

Entchen wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Duke . . . has better weather

quakeroats wrote:Fun weather facts:

Ann Arbor gets 53 days of snow in an average year that total to 57.3 inches.
Durham gets 0.7 days of snow in an average year that total to 1.9 inches.


Why do people equate snow with "bad weather"? Snow is awesome. Those numbers, to me, mean Michigan has (significantly) preferable weather. To each his own, but don't act like your opinion is objectively right.

I went dog-sledding this term in the UP and it was amazing. Also xc skiing a bunch of times.


/tangent


I'm sure you'll retire to Alaska, but if we're defining what's better as what the super majority of people like more, less snow wins easily.

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Entchen
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby Entchen » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:26 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Entchen wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Duke . . . has better weather

quakeroats wrote:Fun weather facts:

Ann Arbor gets 53 days of snow in an average year that total to 57.3 inches.
Durham gets 0.7 days of snow in an average year that total to 1.9 inches.


Why do people equate snow with "bad weather"? Snow is awesome. Those numbers, to me, mean Michigan has (significantly) preferable weather. To each his own, but don't act like your opinion is objectively right.

I went dog-sledding this term in the UP and it was amazing. Also xc skiing a bunch of times.


/tangent


I'm sure you'll retire to Alaska, but if we're defining what's better as what the super majority of people like more, less snow wins easily.


You're missing out, man, it's beautiful.

I only find snow unpleasant when I have to drive in it, which up here is never.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:36 pm

Entchen wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
Entchen wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Duke . . . has better weather

I only find snow unpleasant when I have to drive in it, which up here is never.


I only find snow unpleasant when I have to walk through it while the wind's blowing, or when it turns to a frothy mix of slush and runoff, or when it shuts down the city. Do you want to know when I find 65 and sunny unpleasant?

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Entchen
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby Entchen » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:14 pm

quakeroats wrote:I only find snow unpleasant when I have to walk through it while the wind's blowing, or when it turns to a frothy mix of slush and runoff, or when it shuts down the city. Do you want to know when I find 65 and sunny unpleasant?

When you want to go skiing? :)

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail this thread, I just wanted to chime in in favor of colder climes.

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby SteelPenguin » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:18 pm

Entchen wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I only find snow unpleasant when I have to walk through it while the wind's blowing, or when it turns to a frothy mix of slush and runoff, or when it shuts down the city. Do you want to know when I find 65 and sunny unpleasant?

When you want to go skiing? :)

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail this thread, I just wanted to chime in in favor of colder climes.


I'll derail it a bit more. I've always liked snow when I don't have to shovel/drive. From what I understand, snow doesn't cause Ann Arbor to shut down.

EDIT: Dog sledding sounds like a lot of fun. How much does something like that cost?

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Entchen
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby Entchen » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:52 pm

SteelPenguin wrote:
Entchen wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I only find snow unpleasant when I have to walk through it while the wind's blowing, or when it turns to a frothy mix of slush and runoff, or when it shuts down the city. Do you want to know when I find 65 and sunny unpleasant?

When you want to go skiing? :)

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail this thread, I just wanted to chime in in favor of colder climes.


I'll derail it a bit more. I've always liked snow when I don't have to shovel/drive. From what I understand, snow doesn't cause Ann Arbor to shut down.

EDIT: Dog sledding sounds like a lot of fun. How much does something like that cost?


Yeah, Ann Arbor is fine in the snow. It honestly doesn't even get that much in town.

I did the dog-sledding through Michigan's Outdoor Adventures program, it cost around $300, but that included transportation to and from the UP, two nights at a cabin, equipment rental (we went XC skiing in the afternoon), and meals. They also offer cheaper trips as well -- I did a day trip cross-country skiing around an hour from AA for $30.

Here's their website: http://recsports.umich.edu/outdooradv/trips

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DorianGray89
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby DorianGray89 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:58 pm

I'm a 2L at Duke, and ASW really did it for me. I visited higher ranked school's ASW and didnt like them at all, visited duke with the expectation of hating it, and loved it (and still do). Plus we have better weather ;) and better basketball team overall (just not this season... let's not talk about it, it's a touchy subject)

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J_stack
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby J_stack » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:22 am

Duke offers a travel stipend, Michigan doesn't.

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VeeD101
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby VeeD101 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:20 pm

The hotel cost at Michigan is $20/ night and the food / drinks are substantially free. You just have to get your ass there and things seem to be taken care off from there. I will be visiting Michigan this weekend so let me know if that's the one you decide on :)

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GoldHattedGatsby
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby GoldHattedGatsby » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:32 pm

I have decided to visit Michigan this weekend. I'll be checking out Duke the weekend after, but obviously not during an ASW.

BigZuck
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:09 am

Poor, poor Duke. Even better weather and better employment prospects can't excite people enough to give it a shot.

I will be at ASW this weekend. I'm excited.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Duke for ASW

Postby quakeroats » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:31 pm

BigZuck wrote:Poor, poor Duke. Even better weather and better employment prospects can't excite people enough to give it a shot.


I'm all right with that. I put the data out there, and you get to make the decision. If you went through everything in this thread and still think Michigan's a better choice, then by all means go. Odds are it won't make a difference.




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