Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

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phialphadelta
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Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby phialphadelta » Tue May 31, 2011 7:20 pm

This is the response from Thomas Jefferson Law school's general counsel and attorney Jeff Joseph:


Dear All,

As many of you have read, the school has been sued by one of its 2008 graduates, Anna Alaburda. Anna alleges that statistical information given by the school to the American Bar Association regarding employment is false and misleading and that it falsely induced her to go to law school. She is working as a lawyer but alleges she is unable to find a legal position that pays as much as a non-legal position.

This school reports employment statistics in the same manner as most law schools, using standards and directions set forth by the ABA. We do not know Anna’s expectations when she started law school. We do know she graduated and passed the bar the first time for which the school deserves some credit. This is a difficult economy for all professions, including the legal profession. Even assuming Anna is unable to find the legal job she would like, we do not believe it justifies her demand that the school be punished. This is simply a case about the frustrations of a bad economy.

We have tendered the defense of the case to our insurance carrier and intend to fight this suit vigorously. We are confident that our alums will support the school in the defense of this case.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Jeffrey A. Joseph

Associate Dean and General Counsel

Thomas Jefferson School of Law

1155 Island Avenue

San Diego, CA

Phone: (619) 297-9700 ext 4240; (619) 961-4240 (Direct Line)

Fax: (619) 961-1240

___________________



Jeff Joseph states:

[b]We do know she graduated and passed the bar the first time for which the school deserves some credit. [/b

So should the Thomas Jefferson school of law get credit for the 50% of students who failed the California bar too?

And also some credit for those who couldn't get a job?

_______________

The issue here is not even that the girl couldn't get a job. The issue is how Thomas Jefferson school of law counted students who did not respond to the post-graduate employment survey as being employed when they DID NOT RESPOND TO THE SURVEY ALTOGETHER.

There was an entire article on Thomas Jefferson Law school's fraudulent employment numbers in the New York Times back in January 2011:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/busin ... ted=4&_r=1

phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby phialphadelta » Tue May 31, 2011 7:55 pm

How come no one cares whether or not the law school INTENTIONALLY lied in publishing its statistics?

How about how the Thomas Jefferson school of law was hiring its own graduates right before the 9 month mark used by US News?

Forget about reliance by the plaintiff. Is there any honor left in a stupid ass dean, Beth kransberger, that tries to pass on the blame to grad schools in general and how "it's a tough economy for all grad school graduates"?

No, let's talk about how THIS law school disseminated lies. I don't really care about the job market or this class rep getting a job;

All I want is for the law school to accept personal responsibility....Since the General Counsel of the school thinks the school should get SOME CREDIT for this girl passing the California Bar on her first try. What about some credit for the school to take responsibility for the students who didnt pass? aka 50% of them.

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bk1
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby bk1 » Tue May 31, 2011 7:57 pm

phialphadelta wrote:How come no one cares whether or not the law school INTENTIONALLY lied in publishing its statistics?


Because they all misrepresent the truth and engage in shady practices. This also isn't news to anybody on TLS. It's the thousands of other kids who don't have this information that really need to hear but most of them never will.

phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby phialphadelta » Tue May 31, 2011 8:00 pm

No that wasn't just misleading the numbers. They actually counted students who didn't respond to their employment survey as being EMPLOYED to inflate their numbers further.

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bk1
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby bk1 » Tue May 31, 2011 8:00 pm

phialphadelta wrote:No that wasn't just misleading the numbers. They actually counted students who didn't respond to their employment survey as being EMPLOYED to inflate their numbers further.


With all the other shady shit that law schools do, I'm not really surprised.

Curry

Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby Curry » Tue May 31, 2011 8:02 pm

phialphadelta wrote:No that wasn't just misleading the numbers. They actually counted students who didn't respond to their employment survey as being EMPLOYED to inflate their numbers further.

This happens everywhere. Law school pay students to study for the bar and include them in their employment statistics.

phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby phialphadelta » Tue May 31, 2011 8:17 pm

Even if thats the case....

since when is "Every law school lies about stats and commits fraud"

an actual defense in court?

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dr123
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby dr123 » Tue May 31, 2011 8:20 pm

phialphadelta wrote:How come no one cares whether or not the law school INTENTIONALLY lied in publishing its statistics?


Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't TJSL a for-profit institution?

Also, they didn't really lie the student were technically employed
Last edited by dr123 on Tue May 31, 2011 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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NYC Law
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby NYC Law » Tue May 31, 2011 8:21 pm

But Cooley does it!!

Curry

Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby Curry » Tue May 31, 2011 8:22 pm

phialphadelta wrote:Even if thats the case....

since when is "Every law school lies about stats and commits fraud"

an actual defense in court?

Its not. But this is in response to "why aren't people here up in arms about it"
The answer is we know this shit and we know of even more egregious shit that law schools do.

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bk1
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby bk1 » Tue May 31, 2011 8:26 pm

phialphadelta wrote:Even if thats the case....

since when is "Every law school lies about stats and commits fraud"

an actual defense in court?
.
Nobody ever said it was. It is however the reason that nobody cares.

phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby phialphadelta » Tue May 31, 2011 8:29 pm

dr123 wrote:
phialphadelta wrote:How come no one cares whether or not the law school INTENTIONALLY lied in publishing its statistics?


Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't TJSL a for-profit institution?

Also, they didn't really lie the student were technically employed


No TJSL got itself on the non-profit list in 2005 when Dean Rudy Hasl came over from Seattle Law School.

Exeter
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby Exeter » Tue May 31, 2011 8:31 pm

I have a friend who attends TJLS. Poor Bastard. Poor poor bastard.

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NYC Law
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby NYC Law » Tue May 31, 2011 8:32 pm

Exeter wrote:I have a friend who attends TJLS. Poor Bastard. Poor poor bastard.


I went to school with a pretty hot chick who goes to Barry. It's a shame, but she was kind of a bitch anyways, so whatever.

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Hippononymous
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby Hippononymous » Tue May 31, 2011 8:35 pm

phialphadelta... umadbro?

I mean, let's look at one example of a TJSL grad and see if we can figure out why they can't find employment:

Mr. Wallerstein rented a spacious apartment. He also spent a month studying in the South of France and a month in Prague — all on borrowed money. There were cost-of-living loans, and tuition of about $33,000 a year. Later came a $15,000 loan to cover months of studying for the bar.

Today, his best guess is that he should be sending $2,000 to $3,000 a month in total, to lenders that include Wells Fargo, Citibank and Sallie Mae.

“There are a bunch of others,” he says. “I’m not really good at keeping records.”


phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby phialphadelta » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:47 am

Yeah some law students are beyond dumb and deserve to be stuck with the debt they incurred.

But the issue here is not that the students are stuck with debt....

The issue is still that the school decided to count all students who did not respond to their mail home survey as being employed. Let alone just counting the ones who worked as waiters and waitresses, etc as being a part of their miraculous 90%+ employment stats they submitted to the ABA. Seeing as how only 50% of Thomas Jefferson law students pass the CA bar each year.

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reepS
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby reepS » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:12 am

I went to UG at UCSD w/ some people who are going to TJLS. They are happy that "they got in somewhere" and that they are "going to be a lawyer". I have a feeling that they know its a farce of a school, as it is viewed in SD as a joke on par with a community college. I also have a feeling that everyone at that school also knows their degree is useless. It is like people who believe going to a junior college and saying they are in school as if they are on the same level as someone at Harvard.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:21 am

Hippononymous wrote:phialphadelta... umadbro?

I mean, let's look at one example of a TJSL grad and see if we can figure out why they can't find employment:

Mr. Wallerstein rented a spacious apartment. He also spent a month studying in the South of France and a month in Prague — all on borrowed money. There were cost-of-living loans, and tuition of about $33,000 a year. Later came a $15,000 loan to cover months of studying for the bar.

Today, his best guess is that he should be sending $2,000 to $3,000 a month in total, to lenders that include Wells Fargo, Citibank and Sallie Mae.

“There are a bunch of others,” he says. “I’m not really good at keeping records.”


We need to invoke capitol punishment for borrowers like this.

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NYC Law
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:25 am

Mickey Quicknumbers wrote:
Hippononymous wrote:phialphadelta... umadbro?

I mean, let's look at one example of a TJSL grad and see if we can figure out why they can't find employment:

Mr. Wallerstein rented a spacious apartment. He also spent a month studying in the South of France and a month in Prague — all on borrowed money. There were cost-of-living loans, and tuition of about $33,000 a year. Later came a $15,000 loan to cover months of studying for the bar.

Today, his best guess is that he should be sending $2,000 to $3,000 a month in total, to lenders that include Wells Fargo, Citibank and Sallie Mae.

“There are a bunch of others,” he says. “I’m not really good at keeping records.”


We need to invoke capitol punishment for borrowers like this.


Or just some sort of rating system that would prevent borrowers like this from obtaining more money in the future

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reepS
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby reepS » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:57 am

Or just some sort of rating system that would prevent borrowers like this from obtaining more money in the future[/quote]



IQ test/LSAT based loans lol?

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Magnolia
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby Magnolia » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:53 am

phialphadelta wrote:The issue is still that the school decided to count all students who did not respond to their mail home survey as being employed. Let alone just counting the ones who worked as waiters and waitresses, etc as being a part of their miraculous 90%+ employment stats they submitted to the ABA. Seeing as how only 50% of Thomas Jefferson law students pass the CA bar each year.

Where are you getting that they counted all unresponsive students as employed? That Times article mentions that they count 25% of the people who don't respond as employed, which is ABA policy. If they're doing something beyond that, that's a whole different level of fucked, but I haven't seen anything that says they are.

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NYC Law
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:54 am

reepS wrote:
Or just some sort of rating system that would prevent borrowers like this from obtaining more money in the future




IQ test/LSAT based loans lol?


No, something where you receive some sort of score based on your prior financial habits. IDK though, sounds too complex to ever be implemented.

phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby phialphadelta » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:01 pm

Loans should be given out the same way credit card credit is....

But since they are non-dischargeable lenders give them out more freely and almost limitlessly!

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joeshmo39
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby joeshmo39 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:08 pm

NYC Law wrote:
reepS wrote:
Or just some sort of rating system that would prevent borrowers like this from obtaining more money in the future




IQ test/LSAT based loans lol?


No, something where you receive some sort of score based on your prior financial habits. IDK though, sounds too complex to ever be implemented.


No, man, no. Do not give up on this. I could see it happening. IN FACT, I could see something like this spawning an entire cottage industry of shady, catchy, annoying commercials trying to dupe people into figuring out what the magic "score" is. I'm dreaming a dream here TLS, dream it with me.

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Ikki
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Re: Thomas Jefferson School of Law- TJSL attorney responds

Postby Ikki » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:46 am

Mickey Quicknumbers wrote:We need to invoke capitol punishment for borrowers like this.


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