Berkeley ASW 2010 Forum

[Tangerine Gleam]

I am a huge Chris Edley fan, but yes, I was also surprised that his speech was so joke-y. The "we try not to admit assholes" comment was amazing, don't get me wrong, but he's such an incredibly brilliant man and I wish he had spoken to a lot of the concerns that potential incoming students might have, especially in light of the California economy and the UC budget crisis. I know he's done some amazing things for Boalt over the last five years, and I imagine it would have assuaged some fears if he had been a little more serious about the state of things.

Also, a good 2/3 of the Boalt admits I spoke with said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I really want to come here, but I'm waiting on a matching scholarship response." Sounds like a ton of people are jockeying for that money.

The FinAid panel sounds like it was rough, but I honestly wish I had gone. Maybe it would have made it easier for me to make a decision? Or at least soften the blow before I get rejected for my scholarship request.

[spiffypyro]

Also, a good 2/3 of the Boalt admits I spoke with said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I really want to come here, but I'm waiting on a matching scholarship response." Sounds like a ton of people are jockeying for that money.
[/size]

Actually, a lot of admits I spoke with had NOT applied for scholarship matching, which surprised me. I thought that everyone would or at least should have- there's nothing to lose.

[Tangerine Gleam]

Also, a good 2/3 of the Boalt admits I spoke with said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I really want to come here, but I'm waiting on a matching scholarship response." Sounds like a ton of people are jockeying for that money.
[/size]

Actually, a lot of admits I spoke with had NOT applied for scholarship matching, which surprised me. I thought that everyone would or at least should have- there's nothing to lose.

Oh really? Well, my sample size was pretty bad I guess -- I probably only talked to 12 students, of which I think 7 or 8 were waiting on a matching offer.

As far as everyone applying for it, though, I'm sure that not everyone considering Boalt is also sitting on a $ offer from the list of "peer" schools.

And FWIW, another admit told me that one of the FinAid officers claimed that last year, the three schools where they matched the "most" offers were Michigan, Duke, and UVA. Not sure where this info comes from or if it means anything...but there it is.

[Dignan]

I am a huge Chris Edley fan, but yes, I was also surprised that his speech was so joke-y. The "we try not to admit assholes" comment was amazing, don't get me wrong, but he's such an incredibly brilliant man and I wish he had spoken to a lot of the concerns that potential incoming students might have, especially in light of the California economy and the UC budget crisis. I know he's done some amazing things for Boalt over the last five years, and I imagine it would have assuaged some fears if he had been a little more serious about the state of things.

I totally agree. Edley has been an amazing Dean. When he came on board, he had a vision for improving Berkeley Law, and he's about two-third of the way there. (Most deans do much less over a longer period of time.) I was hoping that Edley would share his vision, talk about the impressive accomplishments of recent years, and explain his strategy for dealing the budget crisis. Instead, he acted like our biggest worry should be the distraction of ongoing construction--which, while annoying, is not the primary concern for most admitted students.

[CoutureChiq]

Also, a good 2/3 of the Boalt admits I spoke with said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I really want to come here, but I'm waiting on a matching scholarship response." Sounds like a ton of people are jockeying for that money.
[/size]

Actually, a lot of admits I spoke with had NOT applied for scholarship matching, which surprised me. I thought that everyone would or at least should have- there's nothing to lose.

Oh really? Well, my sample size was pretty bad I guess -- I probably only talked to 12 students, of which I think 7 or 8 were waiting on a matching offer.

As far as everyone applying for it, though, I'm sure that not everyone considering Boalt is also sitting on a $ offer from the list of "peer" schools.

And FWIW, another admit told me that one of the FinAid officers claimed that last year, the three schools where they matched the "most" offers were Michigan, Duke, and UVA. Not sure where this info comes from or if it means anything...but there it is.

At the financial aid session, he also mentioned that only about 25%-30% of the matching forms submitted actually receive a match.

[spiffypyro]

Also, a good 2/3 of the Boalt admits I spoke with said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I really want to come here, but I'm waiting on a matching scholarship response." Sounds like a ton of people are jockeying for that money.
[/size]

Actually, a lot of admits I spoke with had NOT applied for scholarship matching, which surprised me. I thought that everyone would or at least should have- there's nothing to lose.

Oh really? Well, my sample size was pretty bad I guess -- I probably only talked to 12 students, of which I think 7 or 8 were waiting on a matching offer.

As far as everyone applying for it, though, I'm sure that not everyone considering Boalt is also sitting on a $ offer from the list of "peer" schools.

And FWIW, another admit told me that one of the FinAid officers claimed that last year, the three schools where they matched the "most" offers were Michigan, Duke, and UVA. Not sure where this info comes from or if it means anything...but there it is.

At the financial aid session, he also mentioned that only about 25%-30% of the matching forms submitted actually receive a match.

That was actually more than I was expecting. The director said that 40-45 students matriculate at Berkeley with scholarships, which means that they must offer more than that. Based on what I'd read on TLS in the past, I thought that they only offered a dozen or so.

[sandiecohen47]

I am a huge Chris Edley fan, but yes, I was also surprised that his speech was so joke-y. The "we try not to admit assholes" comment was amazing, don't get me wrong, but he's such an incredibly brilliant man and I wish he had spoken to a lot of the concerns that potential incoming students might have, especially in light of the California economy and the UC budget crisis. I know he's done some amazing things for Boalt over the last five years, and I imagine it would have assuaged some fears if he had been a little more serious about the state of things.

I totally agree. Edley has been an amazing Dean. When he came on board, he had a vision for improving Berkeley Law, and he's about two-third of the way there. (Most deans do much less over a longer period of time.) I was hoping that Edley would share his vision, talk about the impressive accomplishments of recent years, and explain his strategy for dealing the budget crisis. Instead, he acted like our biggest worry should be the distraction of ongoing construction--which, while annoying, is not the primary concern for most admitted students.

I agree. I think he should have addressed it. There was a big elephant in the room and I think he probably decided to stick with the positive and put his best (funny) foot forward. But, yes, not addressing the budget crisis was a bad idea. Also, most of the admits I spoke to who did the one-on-one financial counseling said it was a gigantic waste of time. I wonder if yield will be lower due to a lack of matching scholarships and worries about the budget. Regardless, I'm almost definitely attending.

[CoutureChiq]

I was unclear as to if that 40-45 number included the matching or didn't. I took it to mean that there are 40-45 merit scholarships given out, and then 25-30% of the matching forms on top of that??

[Tangerine Gleam]

25-30% of the match requests are fulfilled? If true, that's the best news I've heard all day. I assumed that only, like, 5 scholarships would be matched.

[MahaloMontana]

I am a huge Chris Edley fan, but yes, I was also surprised that his speech was so joke-y. The "we try not to admit assholes" comment was amazing, don't get me wrong, but he's such an incredibly brilliant man and I wish he had spoken to a lot of the concerns that potential incoming students might have, especially in light of the California economy and the UC budget crisis. I know he's done some amazing things for Boalt over the last five years, and I imagine it would have assuaged some fears if he had been a little more serious about the state of things.

I totally agree. Edley has been an amazing Dean. When he came on board, he had a vision for improving Berkeley Law, and he's about two-third of the way there. (Most deans do much less over a longer period of time.) I was hoping that Edley would share his vision, talk about the impressive accomplishments of recent years, and explain his strategy for dealing the budget crisis. Instead, he acted like our biggest worry should be the distraction of ongoing construction--which, while annoying, is not the primary concern for most admitted students.

I agree. I think he should have addressed it. There was a big elephant in the room and I think he probably decided to stick with the positive and put his best (funny) foot forward. But, yes, not addressing the budget crisis was a bad idea. Also, most of the admits I spoke to who did the one-on-one financial counseling said it was a gigantic waste of time. I wonder if yield will be lower due to a lack of matching scholarships and worries about the budget. Regardless, I'm almost definitely attending.

Yeah, I kind of felt the same way. I really love Boalt, and have always wanted to go there, and though I had a great time, the budget issue was a big factor, and I was surprised that it wasn't really directly addressed. I was the one who asked the question about how budget cuts had affected student life during the student session and I felt like I had touched on some terribly taboo issue, even though it was clearly a huge question for us all. (I was originally thinking strictly about tuition increases and furloughs, but visiting campus I was pretty surprised to see big piles of trash heaping up near Zellerbauch Hall, etc.)

These aren't things that are necessarily going to make or break my decision, and I was very impressed by a lot of other aspects of the day, but it was a little weird how the admins, excluding the fin aid people, seemed to want to ignore this issue.

[spiffypyro]

I was unclear as to if that 40-45 number included the matching or didn't. I took it to mean that there are 40-45 merit scholarships given out, and then 25-30% of the matching forms on top of that??

I was unclear as to if that 40-45 number included the matching or didn't. I took it to mean that there are 40-45 merit scholarships given out, and then 25-30% of the matching forms on top of that??

The director said it was the total number of merit scholarships, so I assume that includes Matching. But I also don't think that Berkeley gives out many other scholarships other than Matching.

[voice of reason]

I didn't go to the financial aid panel but I heard that the guy in charge was borderline rude/ maybe too direct. Something about how if you have a scholarship anywhere else, admits should choose to go there without a doubt? Is this true?

He wasn't rude, he was just very bureaucratic. The session was a waste of time. I didn't learn anything that I couldn't have learned by reading the website, except that they don't do very well at matching scholarships from peer schools.

Anyone go to the career/job-related breakouts? Anything good there?

What did people think overall? I just loved how down-to-earth and funny the professors, current students and admits were. The construction was annoying but I thought that everything else made up for it.

Liked it. If I want to go to law school, I think Berkeley will be good.

[screwsandboalts]

Found out about this site from a few people at ASW- lots of surprised reactions when i told them i had never heard of it so i figured i'd come on and check it out.
anyway, everyone last weekend was very cool (to be honest, i wasn't expecting to meet such down to earth people)- and i just wanted to come on here and say what's up.
i'm definitely attending boalt next year and looking forward to meeting even more of you guys.

[Emma.]

Found out about this site from a few people at ASW- lots of surprised reactions when i told them i had never heard of it so i figured i'd come on and check it out.
anyway, everyone last weekend was very cool (to be honest, i wasn't expecting to meet such down to earth people)- and i just wanted to come on here and say what's up.
i'm definitely attending boalt next year and looking forward to meeting even more of you guys.

ZOMG! You got into Boalt without knowing about TLS??

[screwsandboalts]

ha, guess i must have been one of those 3 assholes

[bilbobaggins]

I think TLS really plays up the "concerns." Why would you expect Edley to address them when he doesn't agree with the doom and gloom that gets thrown around here? They aren't really on his radar. What he does know is that he has one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country and a very solid pool of admits that are likely to fill out the class.

Boalt's philosophy has always seemed to shy away from hand holding or feeling like they really have to work hard to make you come. Boalt will get great students without doing those things (as the school continues to do) and it doesn't make sense for them to make a big deal out of the concerns of a few students who likely won't attend either way.

[Tangerine Gleam]

Boalt will get great students without doing those things (as the school continues to do) and it doesn't make sense for them to make a big deal out of the concerns of a few students who likely won't attend either way.

Wait, were you actually there for Edley's speech?

Either way, I take issue with this comment. I am one of the biggest Boalt proponents out there and the school has been my #1 choice since I decided to go to law school. I wasn't saying I wanted anyone to make a "big deal" about anything; I was only stating that Chris Edley is one of the reasons I fell in love with the school to begin with and I was surprised that, for all of his brilliance and accomplishments, he didn't speak more about his vision for the school.

Surely you don't actually think that only "a few students who won't likely attend" have serious, legitimate concerns about the UC system and the school's tuition hikes?

[EDITED to make me sound like less of an asshole, because I am not trying to start an e-fight.]

[Dignan]

I think TLS really plays up the "concerns." Why would you expect Edley to address them when he doesn't agree with the doom and gloom that gets thrown around here? They aren't really on his radar. What he does know is that he has one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country and a very solid pool of admits that are likely to fill out the class.

Perhaps you are being sarcastic, so I'll apologize in advance if I mistakenly took your post seriously, but how can you possibly believe that the fiscal condition of the University of California is not on Dean Edley's radar? That's absurd. Of course it's on his radar; he's the dean of a major law school who is trying to implement a vision in a time of decreasing state support.

[Tangerine Gleam]

There are about 20 more things about Fake Dean Tom's post that bum me out. Again, I wonder if this person was actually at the Edley speech?

What he does know is that he has one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country and a very solid pool of admits that are likely to fill out the class. [...] Boalt's philosophy has always seemed to shy away from hand holding or feeling like they really have to work hard to make you come. Boalt will get great students without doing those things...

Really, dude? You came into this thread to essentially imply that Boalt has no need to worry about addressing its applicants' "concerns" (which you very classily put in quotations) because, either way, it has enough qualified applicants to fill the class?

I'm not looking to get my fucking "hand held", thanks. Ridiculous. If I end up at Boalt, someone remind me not to drink from this guy's particular batch of Kool Aid.

[CrimsonCal]

ya, had a great time at ASW and met a lot of really cool, down to earth people
the students seemed really laid back and had a great sense of humor

from my time at Harvard, it seemed like the law students there were generally more somber and serious,
the sort of type that prob jerks off in the mirror wearing an HLS t-shirt to have a
prestige induced orgasm... although obviously met some great people there too

[bilbobaggins]

Here is what I meant:

Boalt really likes to undersell the school. It's not a surprise the Edley didn't address these particular concerns. It's also not a surprise he didn't give his "vision of the future."

Edley doesn't look at the CA budget issues the way posters on TLS do. Boalt gets a tiny percentage of its operating budget from CA and from the UC system in general. He is way more worried about raising private funds than the state of the CA budget. This is what I mean by not on his radar.

The hand holding comment is based on the feeling I get from the school's administration. For better or worse, that's the way they view their students. If Edley doesn't perceive the issues facing the school the way you suggest, he's not going to spend time in a speech welcoming you to ASW to address concerns like that. It would make it seem like the issues are bigger than they actually are.

The speech sounded the same as the one he gave last year. Same jokes, etc.

[drdolittle]

"we try not to admit assholes"

...we instead hire them to run our law school...

[Dignan]

Edley doesn't look at the CA budget issues the way posters on TLS do. Boalt gets a tiny percentage of its operating budget from CA and from the UC system in general. He is way more worried about raising private funds than the state of the CA budget.

Cool. My point is that Edley should have said something along the lines of what you wrote. Concern about Berkeley's finances is not limited to a fringe element on TLS. Almost every admitted student I talked to was concerned about it. The admitted students, by the way, did end up hearing negative things about the budget from people like financial aid advisers--who were, quite frankly, a lot less charismatic and reassuring than Edley. Many admitted students walked away from the ASD with a sense of unease that could have been avoided or at least lessened.

The hand holding comment is based on the feeling I get from the school's administration. For better or worse, that's the way they view their students.

I think you and I have a different definition of hand holding. Hundreds of admitted students were in a lecture hall. These students were considering paying $150K to a law school over the next three years. Many of these students wanted to hear the dean of the law school talk, in general terms, about his strategy for maintaining or improving the law school in the face of a difficult state economy. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with "hand holding."

Look, I don't think that Dean Edley committed some grave sin here. I certainly don't think that the content of his speech should dissuade anyone from attending Berkeley. But it seems to me that the criticism of his speech is fair.

[screwsandboalts]

from my time at Harvard, it seemed like the law students there were generally more somber and serious,
the sort of type that prob jerks off in the mirror wearing an HLS t-shirt to have a
prestige induced orgasm... although obviously met some great people there too

haha, awesome dude

[dlac]

lmao you cats is crazay!

Anybody start looking into the housing situation? Is Manville pretty much booked? I walked by this neat little complex that had a big sign advertising "FALL 2010" availability. Sadly I did not write down the name of the place, anybody in the know?