Duke ASO March 26th Forum

[thickfreakness]

Echoing the sentiments on the facilities being incredible. I've spent time in five law school buildings in the past year or so and this one was easily the most impressive. The campus was breathtaking and enjoyable, though I do agree that parking may be a problem. However, parking zone enforcement does end at 5 PM at Duke, so you can park right next to school when you're studying at night, which is helpful (for instance, my UG enforced parking zones until 8 PM, which was very problematic for library access).

One thing I observed was the constant and emphasized focus on public interest and pro bono work. I think that Dean Levi, whose legal career went law clerk-> assistant US attorney -> US attorney -> district judge -> Dean, is seriously trying to raise the PI profile of Duke. Also heard in financial aid counseling that the LRAP program is undergoing a revision to work well with IBR.

I've driven around 650 miles today so I'm exhausted, especially given the whirlwind pace of the weekend. I really loved Duke quite a bit, and I'm eager to make my decision as soon as I get back from Vandy's ASW on the 9th.

[wiseowl]

parking isn't that bad...if you time it properly you can catch a bus from the lots that drops you right at the door

or if you're lazy and have a little pocket change you can usually park for $2/hr in the visitor lot across the street. i usually show up in that lot at 8:23 for an 8:25 class.

[toolshed]

My fellow admitted students - a good, diverse group of people. Most were very down to earth and easy to converse with. I met a local who attends UNC for undergrad, and I was fortunate to speak with him about the Raleigh-Durham area. He shared a lot of insight about the economic growth there, the reputation of Duke law, inter-school relationships, town-school relationships, social and sporting events, etc. I got the sense from him that RDU is generally an outdoorsy lifestyle kind of place, and it is comprised of a VERY high proportion of college educated residents, many with graduate degrees. It apparently has one of the top three (if not the highest) concentrations of M.D.s in the country. On top of that, Duke law is highly regarded in the community. I noticed that there were a LOT of admitted students from the I-95 corridor and the southeast (I include Texas when I say 'southeast'). In general, the admitted students would not hold up to the -insert negative superlative- law school stereotype of Duke. There were only two people who seemed unsavory. One was a really overweight guy in a blazer wearing a bowtie, the other also happened to be wearing a blazer and he was from W&M undergrad - came off like a total toolshed. Other than that, people were great.

Hey...I think I take offense to this...


Facilities were great, faculty/students were cool, most admits seemed like good people. Durham has more to it than what I had pictured in my head. Seems like a good place to spend three years.

[Jericwithers]

My fellow admitted students - a good, diverse group of people. Most were very down to earth and easy to converse with. I met a local who attends UNC for undergrad, and I was fortunate to speak with him about the Raleigh-Durham area. He shared a lot of insight about the economic growth there, the reputation of Duke law, inter-school relationships, town-school relationships, social and sporting events, etc. I got the sense from him that RDU is generally an outdoorsy lifestyle kind of place, and it is comprised of a VERY high proportion of college educated residents, many with graduate degrees. It apparently has one of the top three (if not the highest) concentrations of M.D.s in the country. On top of that, Duke law is highly regarded in the community. I noticed that there were a LOT of admitted students from the I-95 corridor and the southeast (I include Texas when I say 'southeast'). In general, the admitted students would not hold up to the -insert negative superlative- law school stereotype of Duke. There were only two people who seemed unsavory. One was a really overweight guy in a blazer wearing a bowtie, the other also happened to be wearing a blazer and he was from W&M undergrad - came off like a total toolshed. Other than that, people were great.

Hey...I think I take offense to this...


Facilities were great, faculty/students were cool, most admits seemed like good people. Durham has more to it than what I had pictured in my head. Seems like a good place to spend three years.

HAHAHA you just got Shalhoub'd.

I'm also not sure if I like Texas being considered the Southeast

[quetzalcoatl]

My fellow admitted students - a good, diverse group of people. Most were very down to earth and easy to converse with. I met a local who attends UNC for undergrad, and I was fortunate to speak with him about the Raleigh-Durham area. He shared a lot of insight about the economic growth there, the reputation of Duke law, inter-school relationships, town-school relationships, social and sporting events, etc. I got the sense from him that RDU is generally an outdoorsy lifestyle kind of place, and it is comprised of a VERY high proportion of college educated residents, many with graduate degrees. It apparently has one of the top three (if not the highest) concentrations of M.D.s in the country. On top of that, Duke law is highly regarded in the community. I noticed that there were a LOT of admitted students from the I-95 corridor and the southeast (I include Texas when I say 'southeast'). In general, the admitted students would not hold up to the -insert negative superlative- law school stereotype of Duke. There were only two people who seemed unsavory. One was a really overweight guy in a blazer wearing a bowtie, the other also happened to be wearing a blazer and he was from W&M undergrad - came off like a total toolshed. Other than that, people were great.

Hey...I think I take offense to this...


Facilities were great, faculty/students were cool, most admits seemed like good people. Durham has more to it than what I had pictured in my head. Seems like a good place to spend three years.

That guy in a bowtie and blazer was cracking me up. Seriously dude?
I was impressed by the faculty and building. The campus is beautiful, Durham is not as bad as I thought. The other admits seemed very nice, but I wasnt really impressed with them during mock class. Alot of people had no answer/didnt do the reading. Im being overly critical, but if you raise your hand to answer a question, have something semi-intelligent to say.

ASO was great overall, but im still not sure what I will end up doing. Crazy to think that I am actually considering a school I only thought about applying to after getting the PT waiver. Im really glad they sent it to me now

[soullesswonder]

In defense of the mock class participation, I thought most of the people with "poor" answers were cold-called, and I thought that not including copies of the reading in the registration packet was a glaring oversight. I actually had the cases in my car, but I said to myself, "Surely, they're not expecting me to act like a total gunner by walking in there with the cases in my hand." Evidently, I was wrong.

[Herb Watchfell]

Mock classes are a relatively useless, anxiety-inducing farce. Sitting in on actual classes gives you a much better idea of what classes are like.

[Flanker1067]

Hey,

Good reviews people, keep them coming. I didn't get to go but I wanted to. Besides, Duke is the only school I have gotten into yet so it's not like I have to compare schools and I am pretty good in all types of atmospheres. I like hearing good things though.

[quetzalcoatl]

In defense of the mock class participation, I thought most of the people with "poor" answers were cold-called, and I thought that not including copies of the reading in the registration packet was a glaring oversight. I actually had the cases in my car, but I said to myself, "Surely, they're not expecting me to act like a total gunner by walking in there with the cases in my hand." Evidently, I was wrong.

Cold calling was another story. There were plenty of people that raised their hands (during the second mock) and their answers made no sense. Im just saying I wasnt impressed. The only reason I even mentioned it was because it was the only aspect of ASO that wasnt fantastic (in my opinion). I had to be critical on something haha!

[Jericwithers]

In defense of the mock class participation, I thought most of the people with "poor" answers were cold-called, and I thought that not including copies of the reading in the registration packet was a glaring oversight. I actually had the cases in my car, but I said to myself, "Surely, they're not expecting me to act like a total gunner by walking in there with the cases in my hand." Evidently, I was wrong.

Cold calling was another story. There were plenty of people that raised their hands (during the second mock) and their answers made no sense. Im just saying I wasnt impressed. The only reason I even mentioned it was because it was the only aspect of ASO that wasnt fantastic (in my opinion). I had to be critical on something haha!

There were also people I felt who had really good answers, both volunteered and cold-called. I would have volunteered but I didn't read lol. 30 page business legal report was much more important.

[toolshed]

In defense of the mock class participation, I thought most of the people with "poor" answers were cold-called, and I thought that not including copies of the reading in the registration packet was a glaring oversight. I actually had the cases in my car, but I said to myself, "Surely, they're not expecting me to act like a total gunner by walking in there with the cases in my hand." Evidently, I was wrong.

Cold calling was another story. There were plenty of people that raised their hands (during the second mock) and their answers made no sense. Im just saying I wasnt impressed. The only reason I even mentioned it was because it was the only aspect of ASO that wasnt fantastic (in my opinion). I had to be critical on something haha!

I get what you are saying. I had no real intention of volunteering, but at one point I wanted to volunteer just to give the answer so we could move on. All in all, it wasn't that bad...I was just surprised how many people didn't at least glance at the cases. On the other hand, I saw a few people with the sample cases marked up with notes, highlighter, flowcharts, etc. I guess gunning rears its ugly head early.

[thickfreakness]

A lot of the bad answers were just way too broad. Professor was asking very simple, fact-based questions and people were trying to give sweeping, wishy-washy policy-like answers instead of sticking to the facts of the case. It's not necessarily unimpressive, it's simply the product of having a lot of polisci people who are used to answering questions in that fashion.

[strokes788]

My fellow admitted students - a good, diverse group of people. Most were very down to earth and easy to converse with. I met a local who attends UNC for undergrad, and I was fortunate to speak with him about the Raleigh-Durham area. He shared a lot of insight about the economic growth there, the reputation of Duke law, inter-school relationships, town-school relationships, social and sporting events, etc. I got the sense from him that RDU is generally an outdoorsy lifestyle kind of place, and it is comprised of a VERY high proportion of college educated residents, many with graduate degrees. It apparently has one of the top three (if not the highest) concentrations of M.D.s in the country. On top of that, Duke law is highly regarded in the community. I noticed that there were a LOT of admitted students from the I-95 corridor and the southeast (I include Texas when I say 'southeast'). In general, the admitted students would not hold up to the -insert negative superlative- law school stereotype of Duke. There were only two people who seemed unsavory. One was a really overweight guy in a blazer wearing a bowtie, the other also happened to be wearing a blazer and he was from W&M undergrad - came off like a total toolshed. Other than that, people were great.

Hey...I think I take offense to this...


Facilities were great, faculty/students were cool, most admits seemed like good people. Durham has more to it than what I had pictured in my head. Seems like a good place to spend three years.

That guy in a bowtie and blazer was cracking me up. Seriously dude?
I was impressed by the faculty and building. The campus is beautiful, Durham is not as bad as I thought. The other admits seemed very nice, but I wasnt really impressed with them during mock class. Alot of people had no answer/didnt do the reading. Im being overly critical, but if you raise your hand to answer a question, have something semi-intelligent to say.

ASO was great overall, but im still not sure what I will end up doing. Crazy to think that I am actually considering a school I only thought about applying to after getting the PT waiver. Im really glad they sent it to me now

+1

I'm in the same boat. I mainly applied because I was given priority track/the waiver, and felt I had a good shot with my numbers of getting in, which as a T10 law school, was nice to know. However I didn't seriously consider it for the longest time because it was in Durham, NC, the reputation of frattiness and douchebaggery that I had unfairly used as a criteria (I guess all of us possible future Dukies can thank Tucker Max's dumb ass for that one), but a month or so leading into ASO, I realized that the school was actually probably one of if not the best fit for me of any schools I've been accepted to, and I absolutely loved everything when I went for the ASO, so like you, I'm also really glad Duke sent me the PT/Waiver. Fantastic school, beautiful campus, small class size, Durham and the triangle area seems like a great place to spend three years and take a break away from growing up in/going to school in big cities, faculty was very impressive, and everyone was very nice, from the other admitted students to the current Duke students I met while there. And I seriously think Bill Hoye and Mark Hill were pretty awesome and extremely friendly, and Mr. Hoye especially literally answered all my fin-aid questions and questions about Duke law for about 40 minutes in a one-on-one meeting during financial aid counseling. It was really awesome and absolutely above and beyond.

[Jericwithers]

1) Business education for the win when giving fact-based answers.

2) I don't ever want to be called a "dookie"

3) I just committed myself to an apartment I hate the ambiguity of not knowing where I will be in 6 months and the cognitive dissonance of not know if I made a mistake or not. Oh well here is to happy thoughts!

[thickfreakness]

1) Business education for the win when giving fact-based answers.

2) I don't ever want to be called a "dookie"

3) I just committed myself to an apartment I hate the ambiguity of not knowing where I will be in 6 months and the cognitive dissonance of not know if I made a mistake or not. Oh well here is to happy thoughts!

You're committed? I was thinking about applying at Pinnacle Ridge, then getting an apartment and holding it while I look for a house. If I can't find a suitable house or apartment, then I would sign the lease there. The way leasing works, at least the way I've always done it, is that you apply and then they hold the apartment for you, but you don't actually sign the binding lease contract until move-in day. Does PR require you to sign a lease on an apartment you can't see and aren't sure that you'll get before you actually move in? If so, that seems a little bit strange.

[soullesswonder]

1) Business education for the win when giving fact-based answers.

2) I don't ever want to be called a "dookie"

3) I just committed myself to an apartment I hate the ambiguity of not knowing where I will be in 6 months and the cognitive dissonance of not know if I made a mistake or not. Oh well here is to happy thoughts!

which one? I know you said you liked Alexan Garrett...

[Jericwithers]

1) Business education for the win when giving fact-based answers.

2) I don't ever want to be called a "dookie"

3) I just committed myself to an apartment I hate the ambiguity of not knowing where I will be in 6 months and the cognitive dissonance of not know if I made a mistake or not. Oh well here is to happy thoughts!

which one? I know you said you liked Alexan Garrett...

Actually found a different place, and I am committed in so far as I sent them $250 for a wait list. Its Colonial Grand at Patterson Place. I randomly stumbled over it while driving by my hotel, and walked through it and the units and prices were nice. I really liked the area, the rent is a very fair price, grounds are nice, units are spacious, and they lock you into a price once you get on the waitlist. The problem I had with pinnacle ridge is that you get on the waitlist but you have no idea if you will get the bottom of the price range or the top, and they have so many differences in the units that affect the price range. I am satisfied with this place, but am afraid since I made a decision after only one visit.

[fwaam]

Admit weekend was very well orchestrated, building was impressive, the people nice, etc. I thought Duke and the apartment complexes we visited really rolled out the red carpet for us.

What's with criticizing people online so specifically that they can be identified, though? That doesn't bode well....

[Jericwithers]

Admit weekend was very well orchestrated, building was impressive, the people nice, etc. I thought Duke and the apartment complexes we visited really rolled out the red carpet for us.

What's with criticizing people online so specifically that they can be identified, though? That doesn't bode well....

How else would we know who we are criticizing unless we are very specific in describing them? In 5 months none of this will matter anyways, but I agree in not wanting to make anyone to feel bad

[fwaam]

Admit weekend was very well orchestrated, building was impressive, the people nice, etc. I thought Duke and the apartment complexes we visited really rolled out the red carpet for us.

What's with criticizing people online so specifically that they can be identified, though? That doesn't bode well....

How else would we know who we are criticizing unless we are very specific in describing them? In 5 months none of this will matter anyways, but I agree in not wanting to make anyone to feel bad

It's just not classy to let people know who you're criticizing in a public forum that those individuals, or people who have met/will meet them, are likely to visit. Way to make people feel unwelcome.

After I posted that I thought maybe it was an inside joke and those two people are actually his friends, but that's not evident from the post....

[Jericwithers]

Admit weekend was very well orchestrated, building was impressive, the people nice, etc. I thought Duke and the apartment complexes we visited really rolled out the red carpet for us.

What's with criticizing people online so specifically that they can be identified, though? That doesn't bode well....

How else would we know who we are criticizing unless we are very specific in describing them? In 5 months none of this will matter anyways, but I agree in not wanting to make anyone to feel bad

It's just not classy to let people know who you're criticizing in a public forum that those individuals, or people who have met/will meet them, are likely to visit. Way to make people feel unwelcome.

After I posted that I thought maybe it was an inside joke and those two people are actually his friends, but that's not evident from the post....

I am actually thankful that the one guy gave an info dump on Brazilian law/culture at the student Q/A. On the flight home I sat next to a student visiting Duke from Brazil and it made me feel smart to know something about his country

[soullesswonder]

Admit weekend was very well orchestrated, building was impressive, the people nice, etc. I thought Duke and the apartment complexes we visited really rolled out the red carpet for us.

What's with criticizing people online so specifically that they can be identified, though? That doesn't bode well....

How else would we know who we are criticizing unless we are very specific in describing them? In 5 months none of this will matter anyways, but I agree in not wanting to make anyone to feel bad

It's just not classy to let people know who you're criticizing in a public forum that those individuals, or people who have met/will meet them, are likely to visit. Way to make people feel unwelcome.

After I posted that I thought maybe it was an inside joke and those two people are actually his friends, but that's not evident from the post....

As the person who first brought attention to ur-gunner (although without referencing his name or specific school), I feel a short explanation is in order. I only mentioned that individual because it was so glaringly outside the tone and general vibe of both the current students and the other admitted students. The individual in question made specific actions that called attention to himself in a negative way, and several other admits commented upon his passive-aggressive questioning which he exhibited on two separate occasions. By the end of the day he was already known as "that guy", without any need to clarify who "that guy" was.

Furthermore, I'm not so sure that the current Duke students wouldn't agree with my reaction. As I recall from the student panel, one girl said, "If we saw people talking in a corner about how many offers they'd received [in a year where OCI had been so tough], then we'd be like 'show some class!'" I don't think that coming on to a presenter with "if your program doesn't cover civil law, then what's the point?" shows very much class, either.

Maybe "that guy" didn't mean to come off like he did, and if that's the case I'm sure he can make a more positive impression if he does decide to enroll. But I'm not going to feel bad for commenting on someone who deliberately drew attention to himself, and if he wasn't aware of the image he was projecting then maybe this will let him know so he can make the necessary changes. But again, I would emphasis to anyone reading this who wasn't there that this guy has generated comments precisely because he was such an anomaly to an otherwise laid back and very engaging group of people.

[Jericwithers]

Admit weekend was very well orchestrated, building was impressive, the people nice, etc. I thought Duke and the apartment complexes we visited really rolled out the red carpet for us.

What's with criticizing people online so specifically that they can be identified, though? That doesn't bode well....

How else would we know who we are criticizing unless we are very specific in describing them? In 5 months none of this will matter anyways, but I agree in not wanting to make anyone to feel bad

It's just not classy to let people know who you're criticizing in a public forum that those individuals, or people who have met/will meet them, are likely to visit. Way to make people feel unwelcome.

After I posted that I thought maybe it was an inside joke and those two people are actually his friends, but that's not evident from the post....

As the person who first brought attention to ur-gunner (although without referencing his name or specific school), I feel a short explanation is in order. I only mentioned that individual because it was so glaringly outside the tone and general vibe of both the current students and the other admitted students. The individual in question made specific actions that called attention to himself in a negative way, and several other admits commented upon his passive-aggressive questioning which he exhibited on two separate occasions. By the end of the day he was already known as "that guy", without any need to clarify who "that guy" was.

Furthermore, I'm not so sure that the current Duke students wouldn't agree with my reaction. As I recall from the student panel, one girl said, "If we saw people talking in a corner about how many offers they'd received [in a year where OCI had been so tough], then we'd be like 'show some class!'" I don't think that coming on to a presenter with "if your program doesn't cover civil law, then what's the point?" shows very much class, either.

Maybe "that guy" didn't mean to come off like he did, and if that's the case I'm sure he can make a more positive impression if he does decide to enroll. But I'm not going to feel bad for commenting on someone who deliberately drew attention to himself, and if he wasn't aware of the image he was projecting then maybe this will let him know so he can make the necessary changes. But again, I would emphasis to anyone reading this who wasn't there that this guy has generated comments precisely because he was such an anomaly to an otherwise laid back and very engaging group of people.

Too be fair you stood out too If only I had outed you before you outed me....

[cavebat2000]

Too be fair you stood out too If only I had outed you before you outed me....

I was there and I have no idea who either of you are talking about.

[fwaam]

Admit weekend was very well orchestrated, building was impressive, the people nice, etc. I thought Duke and the apartment complexes we visited really rolled out the red carpet for us.

What's with criticizing people online so specifically that they can be identified, though? That doesn't bode well....

How else would we know who we are criticizing unless we are very specific in describing them? In 5 months none of this will matter anyways, but I agree in not wanting to make anyone to feel bad

It's just not classy to let people know who you're criticizing in a public forum that those individuals, or people who have met/will meet them, are likely to visit. Way to make people feel unwelcome.

After I posted that I thought maybe it was an inside joke and those two people are actually his friends, but that's not evident from the post....

As the person who first brought attention to ur-gunner (although without referencing his name or specific school), I feel a short explanation is in order. I only mentioned that individual because it was so glaringly outside the tone and general vibe of both the current students and the other admitted students. The individual in question made specific actions that called attention to himself in a negative way, and several other admits commented upon his passive-aggressive questioning which he exhibited on two separate occasions. By the end of the day he was already known as "that guy", without any need to clarify who "that guy" was.

Furthermore, I'm not so sure that the current Duke students wouldn't agree with my reaction. As I recall from the student panel, one girl said, "If we saw people talking in a corner about how many offers they'd received [in a year where OCI had been so tough], then we'd be like 'show some class!'" I don't think that coming on to a presenter with "if your program doesn't cover civil law, then what's the point?" shows very much class, either.

Maybe "that guy" didn't mean to come off like he did, and if that's the case I'm sure he can make a more positive impression if he does decide to enroll. But I'm not going to feel bad for commenting on someone who deliberately drew attention to himself, and if he wasn't aware of the image he was projecting then maybe this will let him know so he can make the necessary changes. But again, I would emphasis to anyone reading this who wasn't there that this guy has generated comments precisely because he was such an anomaly to an otherwise laid back and very engaging group of people.

Heh, I don't object to your saying this at all. I just got a negative vibe from the original post discussing "that guy"--it described him in a way that people would be able to identify him, but didn't say what exactly he'd done wrong. I'm sure he wasn't very pleasant either, but as a prospective Duke student I got a bad feeling from that part of the post. At any rate, I understand where you're coming from and found it to be a very pleasant and friendly group overall. Fortunately managed to avoid any run-ins with "that guy."