Top Law Schools

finalaspects wrote:

Inygma wrote:

Borhas wrote:thank you brothers

also, completed 10/19/09

Congrats, may I ask where you are located in the US?

he's in VA according to his profile. i just realized i went complete the same day... sigh...

Dear Hastings, I am a 5 hour drive from you. Please send me a decision.

Thank you.

Inygma wrote:

Borhas wrote:thank you brothers

also, completed 10/19/09

Congrats, may I ask where you are located in the US?

Harrisonburg, VA

(it's a small town in the Shenandoah Valley)

.

Borhas wrote:

Inygma wrote:

Borhas wrote:thank you brothers

also, completed 10/19/09

Congrats, may I ask where you are located in the US?

Harrisonburg, VA

(it's a small town in the Shenandoah Valley)

any civil war ghosts?

No ghosts, but there's a few areas round here that have been completely forgotten by time and progress

Borhas wrote:No ghosts, but there's a few areas round here that have been completely forgotten by time and progress

Neat! Unless by 'progress' you mean... the right to vote, etc.

Borhas wrote:No ghosts, but there's a few areas round here that have been completely forgotten by time and progress

Does discovery channel do a pretty good job at showing "life after humans"?

sibley wrote:

Borhas wrote:No ghosts, but there's a few areas round here that have been completely forgotten by time and progress

Neat! Unless by 'progress' you mean... the right to vote, etc.

No, I've never encountered any civil rights issues or stuff like that... mostly I'm talking about the Mennonites. One day you can be driving behind a buggy wondering why on earth there are people that still travel by horse, and then later you'll see Mennonite girls snowboarding down the mountain in their dresses.

Borhas wrote:later you'll see Mennonite girls snowboarding down the mountain in their dresses.

double neat!

Borhas wrote:

sibley wrote:

Borhas wrote:No ghosts, but there's a few areas round here that have been completely forgotten by time and progress

Neat! Unless by 'progress' you mean... the right to vote, etc.

No, I've never encountered any civil rights issues or stuff like that... mostly I'm talking about the Mennonites. One day you can be driving behind a buggy wondering why on earth there are people that still travel by horse, and then later you'll see Mennonite girls snowboarding down the mountain in their dresses.

the only thing i know about mennonites is from a simpsons episode that made them sound like they are just like the amish but more shady/lazy

sdegarmo wrote:

Borhas wrote:

sibley wrote:

Borhas wrote:No ghosts, but there's a few areas round here that have been completely forgotten by time and progress

Neat! Unless by 'progress' you mean... the right to vote, etc.

No, I've never encountered any civil rights issues or stuff like that... mostly I'm talking about the Mennonites. One day you can be driving behind a buggy wondering why on earth there are people that still travel by horse, and then later you'll see Mennonite girls snowboarding down the mountain in their dresses.

the only thing i know about mennonites is from a simpsons episode that made them sound like they are just like the amish but more shady/lazy

swore i read that definition in the dictionary...

predetermined wrote:Quick question: is LRW graded?

Yes, you get a grade, but it is a non-GPA class so it does not affect your GPA or class rank.

sbcity24 wrote:

predetermined wrote:Quick question: is LRW graded?

Yes, you get a grade, but it is a non-GPA class so it does not affect your GPA or class rank.

Woah... Hastings just got a +1

sbcity24 wrote:

predetermined wrote:Quick question: is LRW graded?

Yes, you get a grade, but it is a non-GPA class so it does not affect your GPA or class rank.

Do you take 4 substantive classes then? Or just 3 classes for GPA?

uuughh I have been waiting since the end of October as well. My LSAT is a little low for Hastings, so I'm not surprised I'm still waiting. I applied early-commitment which I hope it counts for something...

Hastings is my first choice so hopefully I dont get shafted otherwise I'm going to be pretty bummed

star10 wrote:uuughh I have been waiting since the end of October as well. My LSAT is a little low for Hastings, so I'm not surprised I'm still waiting. I applied early-commitment which I hope it counts for something...

Hastings is my first choice so hopefully I dont get shafted otherwise I'm going to be pretty bummed

You were deferred for early commitment, right?

yes I was deferred from EC

predetermined wrote:

sbcity24 wrote:

predetermined wrote:Quick question: is LRW graded?

Yes, you get a grade, but it is a non-GPA class so it does not affect your GPA or class rank.

Sweet. The letter still goes on the transcript, though, right?

Yep goes on your transcript, but isnt calculated into GPA. Some employers and most judges like to see good LWR grades, so don't just write it off as a joke class. Moot Court on the other hand is Pass/Fail, and I figure I will put less effort into it than I did into LWR. But if you really like Moot Court you can bust your tail in there and try to win an award or a spot on the Hastings Moot Court team (which is actually a pretty big deal -- they win many, maybe most, of the competitions they attend).

swheat wrote:

predetermined wrote:

sbcity24 wrote:

predetermined wrote:Quick question: is LRW graded?

Yes, you get a grade, but it is a non-GPA class so it does not affect your GPA or class rank.

Sweet. The letter still goes on the transcript, though, right?

Yep goes on your transcript, but isnt calculated into GPA. Some employers and most judges like to see good LWR grades, so don't just write it off as a joke class. Moot Court on the other hand is Pass/Fail, and I figure I will put less effort into it than I did into LWR. But if you really like Moot Court you can bust your tail in there and try to win an award or a spot on the Hastings Moot Court team (which is actually a pretty big deal -- they win many, maybe most, of the competitions they attend).

Do you take 4 substantive classes then? Or just 3 classes for GPA?

So a few people asked me to give my pros/cons of Hastings. I am a 1L in my second semester.

Pros:
-Professors are top-notch, friendly, eager to help and take their classes very seriously
-Seems to have above average employment prospects for a school of its rank. Even this year, some of the top 15% at Hastings are landing V20 jobs. It is no longer top 33% = big or midlaw, but Hastings grads are still doing better than most in CA. If public interest is your thing, Hastings will set you up nicely. They are holding a HUGE public interest career fair on campus this week.
-The student body is great, contrary to rumors of ultra-competitiveness. I guess people who think Hastings is 'cutthroat' expect people to be arguing over who gets to talk next in class, hiding books, giving misinformation to classmates, etc. None of that has been the case. A lot of people speak up in class, but that is about as far as this stuff goes. I am sure that most law schools have their fair share of gunners. If you like a diverse student body, you will fit in fine at Hastings. There are a ton of international people doing both JD and LLM. Most of the student body comes from a UC school -- most of all Berkeley (around 30% I believe)-- but there are a good many students from other areas of the country as well.
-Lots of clubs, organizations, activities. They have all kinds of free classes you can take - yoga and dance classes come to mind. There is a nice gym at the Tower.
-facilities are aesthetically nice on the interior. Exterior - yeah its ugly 1950s gov't-brutalist, but the insides are quite nice. The 200 building (administrative offices + library) received a major overhaul from 2005-2007, so it feels like a brand new building once inside. The library in particular is very nicely done.

Cons
-TUITION. Seriously this is getting out of hand. Less than 10 years ago the tuition at Hastings was under 10k per year instate. Next year it will be 39k. If I were looking at law schools this year, the tuition alone might be enough to push me to attend another law school. I know that it is tempting to choose a T2 like Loyola or USD with huge scholarships, but keep in mind that those schools impose strict GPA requirements on their scholarships and they still provide far weaker employment prospects (eg - Hastings places over 3x more students in biglaw than Loyola). I could think of nothing worse than passing on Hastings, and ending up at median at Loyola with no scholarship. But if you don't have a strong attachment to CA, you might want to look to other regions. I almost chose the far cheaper University of Colorado over Hastings. But then again - keep in mind that a school like Colorado is unlikely to place you in CA if that is your desired region. Only the T20 + ND + UW are solid out of state bets if you want to work in CA.
-TENDERLOIN. This is the other big negative. Hastings adcoms and professors will stress its proximity to all levels of courts as a selling point. I don't really see the advantage, unless you are doing an externship or something. The TL is not dangerous -- most of the crime in the area is drug related, and there are a lot of robberies/stolen property. But it's not very comfortable walking over hobos and past crack dealers on your way to class. I've never felt myself in danger, and the Hastings police are quite good. If you need an escort to the BART they will walk with you (the BART is only about 5 min. walk away from Hastings). If you live within a 10 or 15 block radius they will drive you home too.
-OVERCROWDED. There are a TON of Hastings students. There are something like 1200 JD students and 150 LLM students at Hastings. The buildings seem very crowded at times. You will have to wait in line to enter your class rooms, and there will be lines of people on both sides of the hallway waiting to enter their own class. The library feels overcrowded at times too. You won't find a private place to study in the common area of the library - you will have to use one of the many study rooms instead. There are a lot of group study rooms, but you might have to reserve them (I am not sure, never used them). I think if they are empty you can use them.
-FEW CONCENTRATIONS. There are only 5 or 6 concentrations that you can choose from at Hastings. I believe they are Public Interest, Tax, International, Health, Criminal, and Civil Litigation. I happen to be interested in none of these. I would like to see a Business or Corporate concentration similar to the one at Davis. Even though Hastings doesn't have a broad range of concentrations, it does have a huge selection of courses. For instance, there are a ton of courses in corporate law/m&a/securities, etc. I am not sure if employers really care about concentrations anyway. GPA is still the most important thing.

Nonissues that sometimes are considered issues:
-Hastings is administered separately from the UC Regents. This is true, but part of Hastings' charter is that the CA legislature cannot treat Hastings differently than the other UC law schools. Hence any cut to Hastings has to be made to all other UC law schools. If someone tells you "Hastings won't even be a UC school in 5 years" or "Hastings is about to lose all its state funding - dont go there" don't believe them. Well the 2nd point is true, but it is true of all other UC law schools: all of them will be privately funded within the next few years.
-Hastings students are cutthroat/hide books in library. Already been over this. Isn't true, isn't an issue.
-Hastings students are all politically liberal. Might be true for most Hastings students, but politics has not been an issue in any manner during my time there. If you are liberal, you will find groups that interest you, and if you are conservative you will find groups that interest you. There are also a diverse set of religious groups at Hastings if that is your thing, and an active LGBT scene.
-Hastings is dropping in the rankings while Davis is rising. I think its a stupid point...3 or 4 places is not a big deal, and the two schools trade places frequently. The employment prospects are virtually identical. The USNWR scores show that Davis is more highly regarded in the academic world, and Hastings is more highly regarded among judges and lawyers. Pick the one that suits your lifestyle, not the one you think USNWR would choose.

These are the high points. If anyone has any more specific questions, I am glad to try and answer them.

swheat wrote:So a few people asked me to give my pros/cons of Hastings. I am a 1L in my second semester.

Pros:
-Professors are top-notch, friendly, eager to help and take their classes very seriously
-Seems to have above average employment prospects for a school of its rank. Even this year, some of the top 15% at Hastings are landing V20 jobs. It is no longer top 33% = big or midlaw, but Hastings grads are still doing better than most in CA. If public interest is your thing, Hastings will set you up nicely. They are holding a HUGE public interest career fair on campus this week.
-The student body is great, contrary to rumors of ultra-competitiveness. I guess people who think Hastings is 'cutthroat' expect people to be arguing over who gets to talk next in class, hiding books, giving misinformation to classmates, etc. None of that has been the case. A lot of people speak up in class, but that is about as far as this stuff goes. I am sure that most law schools have their fair share of gunners. If you like a diverse student body, you will fit in fine at Hastings. There are a ton of international people doing both JD and LLM. Most of the student body comes from a UC school -- most of all Berkeley (around 30% I believe)-- but there are a good many students from other areas of the country as well.
-Lots of clubs, organizations, activities. They have all kinds of free classes you can take - yoga and dance classes come to mind. There is a nice gym at the Tower.
-facilities are aesthetically nice on the interior. Exterior - yeah its ugly 1950s gov't-brutalist, but the insides are quite nice. The 200 building (administrative offices + library) received a major overhaul from 2005-2007, so it feels like a brand new building once inside. The library in particular is very nicely done.

Cons
-TUITION. Seriously this is getting out of hand. Less than 10 years ago the tuition at Hastings was under 10k per year instate. Next year it will be 39k. If I were looking at law schools this year, the tuition alone might be enough to push me to attend another law school. I know that it is tempting to choose a T2 like Loyola or USD with huge scholarships, but keep in mind that those schools impose strict GPA requirements on their scholarships and they still provide far weaker employment prospects (eg - Hastings places over 3x more students in biglaw than Loyola). I could think of nothing worse than passing on Hastings, and ending up at median at Loyola with no scholarship. But if you don't have a strong attachment to CA, you might want to look to other regions. I almost chose the far cheaper University of Colorado over Hastings. But then again - keep in mind that a school like Colorado is unlikely to place you in CA if that is your desired region. Only the T20 + ND + UW are solid out of state bets if you want to work in CA.
-TENDERLOIN. This is the other big negative. Hastings adcoms and professors will stress its proximity to all levels of courts as a selling point. I don't really see the advantage, unless you are doing an externship or something. The TL is not dangerous -- most of the crime in the area is drug related, and there are a lot of robberies/stolen property. But it's not very comfortable walking over hobos and past crack dealers on your way to class. I've never felt myself in danger, and the Hastings police are quite good. If you need an escort to the BART they will walk with you (the BART is only about 5 min. walk away from Hastings). If you live within a 10 or 15 block radius they will drive you home too.
-OVERCROWDED. There are a TON of Hastings students. There are something like 1200 JD students and 150 LLM students at Hastings. The buildings seem very crowded at times. You will have to wait in line to enter your class rooms, and there will be lines of people on both sides of the hallway waiting to enter their own class. The library feels overcrowded at times too. You won't find a private place to study in the common area of the library - you will have to use one of the many study rooms instead. There are a lot of group study rooms, but you might have to reserve them (I am not sure, never used them). I think if they are empty you can use them.
-FEW CONCENTRATIONS. There are only 5 or 6 concentrations that you can choose from at Hastings. I believe they are Public Interest, Tax, International, Health, Criminal, and Civil Litigation. I happen to be interested in none of these. I would like to see a Business or Corporate concentration similar to the one at Davis. Even though Hastings doesn't have a broad range of concentrations, it does have a huge selection of courses. For instance, there are a ton of courses in corporate law/m&a/securities, etc. I am not sure if employers really care about concentrations anyway. GPA is still the most important thing.

Nonissues that sometimes are considered issues:
-Hastings is administered separately from the UC Regents. This is true, but part of Hastings' charter is that the CA legislature cannot treat Hastings differently than the other UC law schools. Hence any cut to Hastings has to be made to all other UC law schools. If someone tells you "Hastings won't even be a UC school in 5 years" or "Hastings is about to lose all its state funding - dont go there" don't believe them. Well the 2nd point is true, but it is true of all other UC law schools: all of them will be privately funded within the next few years.
-Hastings students are cutthroat/hide books in library. Already been over this. Isn't true, isn't an issue.
-Hastings students are all politically liberal. Might be true for most Hastings students, but politics has not been an issue in any manner during my time there. If you are liberal, you will find groups that interest you, and if you are conservative you will find groups that interest you. There are also a diverse set of religious groups at Hastings if that is your thing, and an active LGBT scene.
-Hastings is dropping in the rankings while Davis is rising. I think its a stupid point...3 or 4 places is not a big deal, and the two schools trade places frequently. The employment prospects are virtually identical. The USNWR scores show that Davis is more highly regarded in the academic world, and Hastings is more highly regarded among judges and lawyers. Pick the one that suits your lifestyle, not the one you think USNWR would choose.

These are the high points. If anyone has any more specific questions, I am glad to try and answer them.

Thanks for this... Can you answer my previous question?

What 4 or 5 classes do you take your first semester? Basically, is it LRW + 3 substantive classes or 4?

Inygma wrote:
Thanks for this... Can you answer my previous question?

What 4 or 5 classes do you take your first semester? Basically, is it LRW + 3 substantive classes or 4?

Sure...it depends on your section really. It is always LWR + 3 classes first semester, and Moot Court + 4 classes second semester. That is true for everybody. But which classes you get depends on your section. I am not sure but I think everybody has Civpro first semester and everybody has Constitutional in the spring. The other four classes (Torts, Property, Contracts, Crim) are divided up depending on your section. FWIW I had Ks and Crim first semester, and Torts and Property this semester.

predetermined wrote:Great stuff. Any idea what the age distribution among students is like?

Most are in mid 20s. There are a handful of nontrads. I think over half the class has some work experience. The class feels young though...not a bunch of old stuffy people by any means.

One concern I had with Hastings is that its students may have to compete with Boalt students when it comes to externships/summer law clerkships, etc, especially in the government/public service sector because there are such limited spaces. Is that a real issue up there or do Hastings students usually not have a problem getting clerkships?

msch0i wrote:One concern I had with Hastings is that its students may have to compete with Boalt students when it comes to externships/summer law clerkships, etc, especially in the government/public service sector because there are such limited spaces. Is that a real issue up there or do Hastings students usually not have a problem getting clerkships?

Depends on the type of clerkship. I am sure the federal ones were very competitive this year, for the summer. Where Hastings students have a real advantage is in being able to clerk during the SEMESTER, as opposed to during the summer. It's not easy for a Boalt or Stanford guy to get out of class at 1 or 2 pm, then travel to the Civic Center to clerk at the 9th Circuit. Hastings students on the other hand, are a 5 minute walk away.