George Mason 2010 Forum

[FunkyJD]

Life doesn't have to be so bleak. This guy looks happy.
--ImageRemoved--

He has to panhandle to pay his property tax, though.

[pjo]

getting back on topic though.... does everyone on here besides gdane5 really think paying OOS sticker at GMU really isn't worth it? I feel much the same as ramjam. I would (or at least I think I would) really like to live in NoVa, which makes GMU make sense. Would it be worth it if it means I got to live in my first choice geographically or should I give up and pick another region w/ a cheaper dominant school?

[eandy]

getting back on topic though.... does everyone on here besides gdane5 really think paying OOS sticker at GMU really isn't worth it? I feel much the same as ramjam. I would (or at least I think I would) really like to live in NoVa, which makes GMU make sense. Would it be worth it if it means I got to live in my first choice geographically or should I give up and pick another region w/ a cheaper dominant school?

I think it's a gamble. GMU could rise signicantly in the rankings, but it may not. I think if you are in the top 15% or so in your class, it's a great investment. I think if you aren't, it's probably a poor choice.
All in all, both are unknowns. It's hard to know if you will be at the top of your class. It's hard to know how much they will go up in the rankings. It's hard to tell how much it rising in the rankings will matter in the face of its competition.

Really, ITE, going to law school in general is a risk. It's hard for anybody to give advice, because nobody really knows what will happen. It's possible that in three years, the economy will be much better. It could be worse or the same.

I'm rambling. Basically, no matter what it's a gamble. Go with your gut and hope for the best.

[MarkRenton]

What makes this a difficult case is that GMU is in Northern Virginia... Meaning that BIGLAW jobs are saturated with G'Town, GW, and many other T14 grads. GMU will probably give you an inside track to government jobs. However, government work doesn't always pay the bills. I really wish I could say that paying stick was worth it. It'd make my life a bit easier. Plus, with the amount of loans you'll probably need, you're talking about private loans which aren't nearly as easy to pay off as federal loans. To me, GMU at sticker sounds much better pre-graduation. I can also see myself being full of regrets after graduation.

[eandy]

What makes this a difficult case is that GMU is in Northern Virginia... Meaning that BIGLAW jobs are saturated with G'Town, GW, and many other T14 grads. GMU will probably give you an inside track to government jobs. However, government work doesn't always pay the bills. I really wish I could say that paying stick was worth it. It'd make my life a bit easier. Plus, with the amount of loans you'll probably need, you're talking about private loans which aren't nearly as easy to pay off as federal loans. To me, GMU at sticker sounds much better pre-graduation. I can also see myself being full of regrets after graduation.

Yep, and the trouble is that this economy sucks so grads from higher ranked schools are taking government jobs that GMU grads used to be able to get without too many problems.

[FunkyJD]

If you're willing to bet $170k that you'll finish in the top 10 percent of your class, by all means, pay sticker at Mason. Just know that if you lose this bet, this is how you will feel:

[ViIIager]

If you really want to have a good time and come up with a fact-based decision, decide what you want out of life after school in an Excel spreadsheet. For a simplistic example:

1. Townhouse in the VA/DC/MD area = $400,000 general purchase price; call it $3,000 per month
2. New BMW (of course) = $35,000; call it $1,000 per month
3. Utilities/cell phone/groceries/Guiness/whatever = call it $2,000 per month

Total those monthly prices and then add in how much you think

4. Law school debt = $XXX,XXX for out of state; call it $YYY per month

is going to cost. Without #4 you're looking at $6,000 of net income to cover; for those of you who don't pay taxes (future Congressmen), don't contribute to a retirement plan, don't go on vacation, don't buy health care insurance, etc., that's $72,000 yearly. Will Mason provide you with a job that will enable you to cover that $72k PLUS your law school debt monthly payment? If not, chage your "wants"--kill the mortgage and substitute a cheaper rent; keep rocking the 1972 Geo Metro; live in a cardboard box to avoid utilities. The key is what your law school education will enable you to do. I'd recommend doing some extensive itemization for your post-law school expenses, expectations of income/job after school, and play out some different scenarios. Are you married? Is part-time a better option? What happens to job/salary expectations if you finish top 10%/25%/50%/last in your class?

All that said and moving back to the subject in question, out of state costs for GMU will build up a large chunk of debt that could bite you hard in your post-school expenses. Will they draw enough blood for you to decide its worth it?

Based on my personal situation, if I were from out of state, I don't think I'd ever consider GMU. It's a good school that's supposedly moving up in the rankings (with the exception of last year), but there are too many good law schools around the country that offer far more in scholarship money than GMU. That said, I'm a lifetime resident of the Commonwealth that wants to stay in Virginia until my kids are in college, at which point I'm going to have to agonize over staying versus finding a state that doesn't get this damned cold. GMU means opportunity in the Fed gov't, the VA gov't, private law firms, private/public consulting firms in the commonwealth, etc. at an awesomely cheap price, so it couldn't be more perfect for me. My post-law school balance sheet comes out rather positive based on the mix of my wants, my expected job/income, and my expected law school debt, including scenarios wherein I'm top 10%, top 50%, and the anchorman of the class.

tl;dr version: you does your math and you's takes your chances as an out of stater (or, in general, as any LS student).

[Bulls]

Anyone hear anything lately? my status checker says decision sent.. does this mean a ding?

[druss3ll]

I applied to both PT and FT programs and I just noticed that the little drop down menu on my status checker only has part-time listed and that the program type also says part-time only. Should I take this to mean I've already been rejected from the full-time program and they are still deciding on my part-time? Has anyone else had a similar experience with the status checker? I'm not even sure if it ever said "both" or "either" for program before or if that was another school.

Ahh this waiting game is exasperating!

[FunkyJD]

Anyone hear anything lately? my status checker says decision sent.. does this mean a ding?

I've noticed that with most schools, people who get news on Thursdays and Fridays tend to be happier than people who get news on Wednesdays -- myself included. That's hella non-scientific, but hopefully this means an acceptance for you. Good luck.

[druss3ll]

Anyone hear anything lately? my status checker says decision sent.. does this mean a ding?

What it seems to mean, based on the shared experience base, is that you really, really want to get a phone call today or tomorrow from the 703 area code.

[gdane]

Those estimates are so retarded. You dont need to buy a $400,000 home nor do you need to buy a BMW! That's stupid, not paying sticker at Mason.

[FunkyJD]

Those estimates are so retarded. You dont need to buy a $400,000 home nor do you need to buy a BMW!

Villager never said you did, as he was merely illustrating an example. That being said, there's nothing remotely wrong about aspiring to have those things. Personally, I would change the BMW to a top-of-the-line pickup truck, but otherwise I would be very happy with that outcome.

That's stupid, not paying sticker at Mason.

You're going to have to come up with a better argument than, "Paying sticker at GMU is okay because you might someday make enough money to comfortably shoulder $170,000 in student loan debt." So far, you haven't. If you think this is a good idea, then hopefully you have enough personal financial resources to fall back on if you're wrong. Most people don't.

[MarkRenton]

Those estimates are so retarded. You dont need to buy a $400,000 home nor do you need to buy a BMW!

Villager never said you did, as he was merely illustrating an example. That being said, there's nothing remotely wrong about aspiring to have those things. Personally, I would change the BMW to a top-of-the-line pickup truck, but otherwise I would be very happy with that outcome.

That's stupid, not paying sticker at Mason.

You're going to have to come up with a better argument than, "Paying sticker at GMU is okay because you might someday make enough money to comfortably shoulder $170,000 in student loan debt." So far, you haven't. If you think this is a good idea, then hopefully you have enough personal financial resources to fall back on if you're wrong. Most people don't.

I agree with everything about this post. I would find much more use in a Toyota Tundra than a BMW. Second, definitely. It'd be nice to able to cover the debt, but imagine life in a world where you can't. shudder

[Bulls]

Anyone hear anything lately? my status checker says decision sent.. does this mean a ding?

I've noticed that with most schools, people who get news on Thursdays and Fridays tend to be happier than people who get news on Wednesdays -- myself included. That's hella non-scientific, but hopefully this means an acceptance for you. Good luck.

haha I like your method, I'll let you know if it works.

[FunkyJD]

Anyone hear anything lately? my status checker says decision sent.. does this mean a ding?

I've noticed that with most schools, people who get news on Thursdays and Fridays tend to be happier than people who get news on Wednesdays -- myself included. That's hella non-scientific, but hopefully this means an acceptance for you. Good luck.

haha I like your method, I'll let you know if it works.

I just got a call from another school with a great scholarship, so let's add that statistic to the data.

[NU_Jet55]

Anyone hear anything lately? my status checker says decision sent.. does this mean a ding?

Did you send your app in on Jan 31st? When did you go complete?


I sent my app in on the 28th, went complete on Feb 3rd, and still nothing ...

[Dr. Review]

Complete 2/3.
Dinged via Snail Mail today.

Not surprising. 159 and 3.3 with 2 yrs WE

[*kiki*]

Hello Everyone,

I am a 1L right now at Mason. I am not sure what you guys have covered on this thread, or if you even have any questions left for a current Mason student, but I will answer any questions that you all might have. If any of you attended the recent admitted students weekend, I might have met you yesterday. Best of luck to all of you who are still waiting to hear whether you are in! I just wanted to put a little plug in to not take anything that other prospective students take too seriously. I was on this board all the time last cycle. Overall most of the things that were said were highly overstated. First of all, law school is going to be different for everyone. Second, law school is what you make of it. I know several of you are concerned about being able to find the jobs that you would like coming out of a school like Mason. Honestly, some people will have problems finding those jobs, however, those who realize it will be a little more work and are willing to put in the work won't. Nearly all of my 1L friends already have jobs secured for the summer. I secured a position with a Circuit Court Judge back in early December. There is one student in my class who has a position for the summer on the Senate Judiciary Committee even, which is highly sought after by students from T14 schools since it is highly likely that their work this summer will be looking at nominations to fill a seat on the Supreme Court. Overall, don't get too worked up over the idea that rankings are always an absolute indicator of job prospects. If anyone has anymore specific questions about my experiences or the situations of my fellow 1Ls, I will be more than happy to answer them. Just remember to try and relax while you guys still can. Things will work out for all of you.


All my best!

[luckyduck]

Hello Everyone,

. If anyone has anymore specific questions about my experiences or the situations of my fellow 1Ls, I will be more than happy to answer them. Just remember to try and relax while you guys still can. Things will work out for all of you.


All my best!

Thanks for the info! Do you know how hard is it get off the waitlist?

[*kiki*]

I am so sorry that I can not give any indication of how hard it is to get off of the waitlist. I was admitted straight in, so I am not familiar with that. Though, I do have one person in my class who got in the day before classes. So I know that if people don't show up to orientation, they will fill their spots.

[daagermy1]

Hello Everyone,

I am a 1L right now at Mason. I am not sure what you guys have covered on this thread, or if you even have any questions left for a current Mason student, but I will answer any questions that you all might have. If any of you attended the recent admitted students weekend, I might have met you yesterday. Best of luck to all of you who are still waiting to hear whether you are in! I just wanted to put a little plug in to not take anything that other prospective students take too seriously. I was on this board all the time last cycle. Overall most of the things that were said were highly overstated. First of all, law school is going to be different for everyone. Second, law school is what you make of it. I know several of you are concerned about being able to find the jobs that you would like coming out of a school like Mason. Honestly, some people will have problems finding those jobs, however, those who realize it will be a little more work and are willing to put in the work won't. Nearly all of my 1L friends already have jobs secured for the summer. I secured a position with a Circuit Court Judge back in early December. There is one student in my class who has a position for the summer on the Senate Judiciary Committee even, which is highly sought after by students from T14 schools since it is highly likely that their work this summer will be looking at nominations to fill a seat on the Supreme Court. Overall, don't get too worked up over the idea that rankings are always an absolute indicator of job prospects. If anyone has anymore specific questions about my experiences or the situations of my fellow 1Ls, I will be more than happy to answer them. Just remember to try and relax while you guys still can. Things will work out for all of you.


All my best!

Hey Kiki! Welcome (back?) to the thread and thanks for helping the paranoid crew that we are on TLS.

I've heard from a good number of friends that Mason is a traditionally "conservative" law school. I'm pretty moderate politically, so the environment is not a dealmaker or breaker; just curious if you've seen that conservative angle to be true in terms of your classmates and professors. Thanks!

[*kiki*]

I would say that it is definitely apparent from some of the students. I myself am pretty liberal, so I understand the concern that one would have coming to Mason. From my personal experience though, the professors own political views do not manifest in the actual classroom. It is apparent that most of them are conservative if you read their published works or speak to them about politics in office hours. However, there are at least two professors that I have had, who I am still completely clueless on in regards to their political affiliation. One of my peers mentioned at the admitted students day that many of our professors come from very highly regarded, and very liberal, law schools themselves. Thus, many of them remember how that situation made them feel, and are careful not to put their students in that same position. I would absolutely agree with this observation. Hope this answer helps.

Hello Everyone,

I am a 1L right now at Mason. I am not sure what you guys have covered on this thread, or if you even have any questions left for a current Mason student, but I will answer any questions that you all might have. If any of you attended the recent admitted students weekend, I might have met you yesterday. Best of luck to all of you who are still waiting to hear whether you are in! I just wanted to put a little plug in to not take anything that other prospective students take too seriously. I was on this board all the time last cycle. Overall most of the things that were said were highly overstated. First of all, law school is going to be different for everyone. Second, law school is what you make of it. I know several of you are concerned about being able to find the jobs that you would like coming out of a school like Mason. Honestly, some people will have problems finding those jobs, however, those who realize it will be a little more work and are willing to put in the work won't. Nearly all of my 1L friends already have jobs secured for the summer. I secured a position with a Circuit Court Judge back in early December. There is one student in my class who has a position for the summer on the Senate Judiciary Committee even, which is highly sought after by students from T14 schools since it is highly likely that their work this summer will be looking at nominations to fill a seat on the Supreme Court. Overall, don't get too worked up over the idea that rankings are always an absolute indicator of job prospects. If anyone has anymore specific questions about my experiences or the situations of my fellow 1Ls, I will be more than happy to answer them. Just remember to try and relax while you guys still can. Things will work out for all of you.


All my best!

Hey Kiki! Welcome (back?) to the thread and thanks for helping the paranoid crew that we are on TLS.

I've heard from a good number of friends that Mason is a traditionally "conservative" law school. I'm pretty moderate politically, so the environment is not a dealmaker or breaker; just curious if you've seen that conservative angle to be true in terms of your classmates and professors. Thanks!

[Sauer Grapes]

...

[*kiki*]

From my experiences around here this is correct. My friend has a very nice house, which she paid around $250,000 for, but she is all the way out in Stafford. My husband and I have been looking at houses in the area, and for a two bedroom house which we consider to be very nice, most have been between $350K to $450K. So the $600K would get you an extremely nice or extremely large house, but the lower estimate of $400K is reasonable.

Those estimates are so retarded. You dont need to buy a $400,000 home nor do you need to buy a BMW! That's stupid, not paying sticker at Mason.

Actually, if you stay in the DC area like most Mason grads, you do need to budget for at least a $400K home. In Arlington, a 2 bedroom condo is almost $400K (can actually be much more), and with condo fees it makes your mortgage equivalent to a payment on a $400K home. Sure, you could commute an hour and get that two bedroom condo for $250K, maybe a bit less, but if you want a SFH, you are going to be paying at least $400K for anything close to decent, and MUCH MUCH more for any SFH in Arlington (try $600K at least if you are not on the metro, and much more if you are).