George Mason 2010

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fallguy
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby fallguy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:37 pm

ram jam wrote:Has anyone thought about how to pay for GMU. As it is unlikely that we out-of-state folk will get in-state tuition coupled with the fact of high COA, how willing are you to finance the $175,000+ Debt. I would like to know if people are in my same position. How do you justify the debt? Is it worth it?



I don't think it's worth it. I'm holding out for the slim hope of some money. Otherwise, I am not considering Mason.

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gwuorbust
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby gwuorbust » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:38 pm

ram jam wrote:Has anyone thought about how to pay for GMU. As it is unlikely that we out-of-state folk will get in-state tuition coupled with the fact of high COA, how willing are you to finance the $175,000+ Debt. I would like to know if people are in my same position. How do you justify the debt? Is it worth it?


This is why I do not think I will be going to GMU. I do not think I could justify 200k from GWU, but I def do not think I could spend 180k at GMU. I have thought about asking if I could transfer my app to PT and then work over the 4 years so that I could grad w/o any debt. But then I would have to do the PT program.

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gdane
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby gdane » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:49 pm

Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.

fallguy
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby fallguy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:52 pm

gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.


I hear what you're saying, but it's the difference in cost between schools of similar quality that I am considering. I can go to Wake Forest or SMU for around $70,000 less than GMU (factoring in scholarship money). Consider the additional interest I'll be paying and that's around $100K extra to go to a school I don't know if I'll like any more. It's not like it GMU or nothing.

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gdane
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby gdane » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:56 pm

Ahh gotcha. Yea I would go to Wake Forest if the opportunity is there. Definitely. Smart Choice.

fallguy
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby fallguy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:01 pm

I also want to say that I hope I didn't sound down on Mason is my posts. I really respect Mason, would love to attend, and hope they offer me some money. I just can't justify paying out of state at full price.

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pjo
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby pjo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:03 pm

fallguy wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.


I hear what you're saying, but it's the difference in cost between schools of similar quality that I am considering. I can go to Wake Forest or SMU for around $70,000 less than GMU (factoring in scholarship money). Consider the additional interest I'll be paying and that's around $100K extra to go to a school I don't know if I'll like any more. It's not like it GMU or nothing.


don't get me wrong. WF and SMU are great schools too but at the same time where do you want to be? I mean for me I'd rather be in NoVa than NC but I'm not sure if that actually justifies paying extra for GMU than my flag ship.

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MarkRenton
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby MarkRenton » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:03 pm

gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.


This is basically saying "don't worry about tomrorow, it will never come". I wish I could get behind this advice. You say, "yes you will be over 100K in debt"... It'll be around 170K with living expenses (conservative estimate). This makes me shudder. Making 60K/year will make life difficult for many many years (many more) while trying to pay off nearly 200K. Good gawd, thinking about this makes me want to get drunk. I'm not saying don't do it - but also, don't be cavalier about it either.

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eandy
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby eandy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:04 pm

gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.


I don't think this is necessarily good advice. We haven't seen statistics from GMU recently(not since the boom in 2006/2007). I would talk to 2Ls at each school and see how they're doing in the job search. Wake Forest does just fine in NC, so if you don't mind practicing there it is a good deal. I'm doing the whole Georgia vs GMU debate right now(DP at W&M :( ) I like George Mason, but it's not worth all of the extra money to me. GMU grads are competing against UVA, Georgetown, GWU, W&L, W&M, and American grads. Plus, Catholic. I don't want to put myself in that boat. Georgia is cheap(about 105k at sticker!) and does just fine in Atlanta.

One should really keep debt in mind because employment statistics currently available are old. Honestly, they are both regional schools and aren't that different, IMO. Go with the best deal!

qualster
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby qualster » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:15 pm

MarkRenton wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.


This is basically saying "don't worry about tomrorow, it will never come". I wish I could get behind this advice. You say, "yes you will be over 100K in debt"... It'll be around 170K with living expenses (conservative estimate). This makes me shudder. Making 60K/year will make life difficult for many many years (many more) while trying to pay off nearly 200K. Good gawd, thinking about this makes me want to get drunk. I'm not saying don't do it - but also, don't be cavalier about it either.


The advice isn't that great but 60K per year is pretty light. By year four a grad of a good law school would probably be making 70 or 80 and then probably over 100K by year 10. If working in Big Law, the hypothetical grad earns more. Am I wrong?

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FunkyJD
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:23 pm

gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

This is insane advice. You don't pay $170k for a school that will "get better in time."

gdane5 wrote:With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

$60k/yr after graduation against $170k in debt. Sweet! :twisted:

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MarkRenton
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby MarkRenton » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:26 pm

qualster wrote:
MarkRenton wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.


This is basically saying "don't worry about tomrorow, it will never come". I wish I could get behind this advice. You say, "yes you will be over 100K in debt"... It'll be around 170K with living expenses (conservative estimate). This makes me shudder. Making 60K/year will make life difficult for many many years (many more) while trying to pay off nearly 200K. Good gawd, thinking about this makes me want to get drunk. I'm not saying don't do it - but also, don't be cavalier about it either.


The advice isn't that great but 60K per year is pretty light. By year four a grad of a good law school would probably be making 70 or 80 and then probably over 100K by year 10. If working in Big Law, the hypothetical grad earns more. Am I wrong?


Unless you plan to live like a pauper, you'll be in debt for decades. Plus it'll severely limit career options (money will always be the first priority). You'll essentially be working for student loans for 20 years. GMU's a good education - but honestly, it's not that good. There are certain educations where one can be assured of excellent employment. GMU can't do that. Not ITE

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gdane
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby gdane » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:33 pm

I used 60k as a "conservative" estimate. Of course there are people that will make much more. I finished that statement by saying that there is the potential to earn more. For instance, working for the DOJ you start off in the 60k range, but move up to over 100k in 5 or so years.

GMU is a great school right now as it is. Really great. I meant that it can get better in the sense that it is currently in the high 20's, but has the potential to be in the top 20 or even 15.

I'm just one of those people that believes that you shouldnt shortchange yourself. Being 150k in law school debt is different than being 150k in gambling, drug or personal debt. A law degree truly is an investment in yourself and it is an investment that can grow.

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eandy
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby eandy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:35 pm

qualster wrote:
MarkRenton wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Invest in yourself. Dont worry about debt. Far too many people worry so much about a future that isnt here yet. Its great to plan ahead, but dont be cheap. GMU is a great school that will only get better in reputation as the years go along.

With that being said, take out loans. Yes you will be over 100k in debt, but thats where your awesome GMU JD comes into play. Work and pay off the debt. Even if you dont go into biglaw you can still get a good paying job. Making 60k isnt that bad at all. The potential to earn more is there.

dont deprive yourself the opportunity to go to a great school just because you are worried about what you are going to owe 3 or 4 years from now.


This is basically saying "don't worry about tomrorow, it will never come". I wish I could get behind this advice. You say, "yes you will be over 100K in debt"... It'll be around 170K with living expenses (conservative estimate). This makes me shudder. Making 60K/year will make life difficult for many many years (many more) while trying to pay off nearly 200K. Good gawd, thinking about this makes me want to get drunk. I'm not saying don't do it - but also, don't be cavalier about it either.


The advice isn't that great but 60K per year is pretty light. By year four a grad of a good law school would probably be making 70 or 80 and then probably over 100K by year 10. If working in Big Law, the hypothetical grad earns more. Am I wrong?


yeah, but GMU doesn't do that well with BigLaw.

ram jam
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby ram jam » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:36 pm

I am from out of state and I do not want to live in this state anymore. I would like to live in NOVA/DC. This makes Mason almost worth the debt. But, I dont know if I can swallow the debt and hope for a great career. Maybe, I go in debt, then grad and make enough money to pay off the debt sooner, and have a good life. But maybe, I droon in debt for decades. I think we all have these fears.

Tough decisions ahead.

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pjo
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby pjo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:37 pm

gdane5 wrote:GMU is a great school right now as it is. Really great. I meant that it can get better in the sense that it is currently in the high 20's, but has the potential to be in the top 20 or even 15.


umm actually its in the low 40's (41 to be exact) and has never been in the 20's

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eandy
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby eandy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:38 pm

pjo wrote:
gdane5 wrote:GMU is a great school right now as it is. Really great. I meant that it can get better in the sense that it is currently in the high 20's, but has the potential to be in the top 20 or even 15.


umm actually its in the low 40's (41 to be exact) and has never been in the 20's


I thought the statement that it could be top 15 was so hilarious that I didn't bother to correct. It's cute.

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gdane
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby gdane » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:40 pm

Exactly! what is your other option? stay somewhere you didnt want to be? Go to a school that you dont want to be at?

Go somewhere that you want to go to. Study where you want to study.

My mistake about the GMU ranking. I was thinking about GW.

qualster
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby qualster » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:40 pm

eandy wrote:
pjo wrote:
gdane5 wrote:GMU is a great school right now as it is. Really great. I meant that it can get better in the sense that it is currently in the high 20's, but has the potential to be in the top 20 or even 15.


umm actually its in the low 40's (41 to be exact) and has never been in the 20's


I thought the statement that it could be top 15 was so hilarious that I didn't bother to correct. It's cute.


Top 14-15 will probably never be changed, will it? I mean, how does a school break into a group with Cornell and Georgetown at the bottom? Can't be done.

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FunkyJD
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:07 pm

gdane5 wrote:I used 60k as a "conservative" estimate. Of course there are people that will make much more. I finished that statement by saying that there is the potential to earn more. For instance, working for the DOJ you start off in the 60k range, but move up to over 100k in 5 or so years.

You can't pay off student loan debt each month with potential future earnings. If you don't get biglaw out of law school, and you're $170k, unless you have a job with massive repayment assistance, you are going to be screwed.

And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but don't programs like federal public service loan forgiveness only forgive federally guaranteed loans, and not any private loan balances?
Last edited by FunkyJD on Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

qualster
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby qualster » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:11 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
gdane5 wrote:I used 60k as a "conservative" estimate. Of course there are people that will make much more. I finished that statement by saying that there is the potential to earn more. For instance, working for the DOJ you start off in the 60k range, but move up to over 100k in 5 or so years.

You can't pay off student loan debt each month with potential future earnings.


"That's as good as money, sir. Those are IOUs."

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FunkyJD
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:12 pm

qualster wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
gdane5 wrote:I used 60k as a "conservative" estimate. Of course there are people that will make much more. I finished that statement by saying that there is the potential to earn more. For instance, working for the DOJ you start off in the 60k range, but move up to over 100k in 5 or so years.

You can't pay off student loan debt each month with potential future earnings.


"That's as good as money, sir. Those are IOUs."

Ha! I guess in California that's true. :lol:

qualster
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby qualster » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:21 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
qualster wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
gdane5 wrote:I used 60k as a "conservative" estimate. Of course there are people that will make much more. I finished that statement by saying that there is the potential to earn more. For instance, working for the DOJ you start off in the 60k range, but move up to over 100k in 5 or so years.

You can't pay off student loan debt each month with potential future earnings.


"That's as good as money, sir. Those are IOUs."

Ha! I guess in California that's true. :lol:


"That's as good as money, sir. Those are IOUs. Go ahead and add it up. Every cent's accounted for. Look, see this? That's a legal education plus living expenses. 175 thou. Might want to hang on to that one."

I used to hate people who quote Dumb and Dumber (like the dbags in my fraternity who thought that quoting a movie every five seconds could make up for a lack of personality), but I thought it appropriate here.

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eandy
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby eandy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:28 pm

Life doesn't have to be so bleak. This guy looks happy.
--ImageRemoved--

qualster
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Re: George Mason 2010

Postby qualster » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:30 pm

eandy wrote:Life doesn't have to be so bleak. This guy looks happy.
--ImageRemoved--


That is rather thick cardboard paper stock. Could be worse.




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