Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

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KimmyGibbler
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby KimmyGibbler » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:58 pm

Padimud wrote:Good thread- Needed to bookmark.


+1

sfdreaming09
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby sfdreaming09 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:02 pm

hopefulincal wrote:Thanks for all the helpful advice. I'm researching into Thinking Like A Lawyer: A New Introduction To Legal Reasoning and found two versions on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Like-Lawyer-Introduction-Reasoning/dp/0674032705/

http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Like-Lawyer-Introduction-Perspectives/dp/0813322049/

They are also by two different authors. Could someone help clarify the difference between these two, and which one is the recommended one?


+1. I was confused by this too. If somebody could clarify, it would be much appreciated!

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vanwinkle
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:07 pm

sfdreaming09 wrote:
hopefulincal wrote:Thanks for all the helpful advice. I'm researching into Thinking Like A Lawyer: A New Introduction To Legal Reasoning and found two versions on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Like-Lawyer-Introduction-Reasoning/dp/0674032705/

http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Like-Lawyer-Introduction-Perspectives/dp/0813322049/

They are also by two different authors. Could someone help clarify the difference between these two, and which one is the recommended one?


+1. I was confused by this too. If somebody could clarify, it would be much appreciated!


The new one (by Frederick Schauer) is referencing the old one in the title (saying it's a "NEW" introduction to legal reasoning). I was recommending the new one, as it's written to be geared toward someone with little/no legal experience; I have never read the old one.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:12 pm

sneakersboy11 wrote:True, but I feel to some extent most prepared for this. Went to a top undergrad, work in very selective field. The shock of being surrounded of bright motivated people is the least of my concerns in LS right now.


In your very selective field, is your pay determined by how well your peers do? If your peers do better than you, do you get a pay cut?

That's pretty much what law school is like and why it is so very different than anything else. You are graded entirely based on your relative performance to your peers. In undergrad, half the people in a class could get As if they worked well enough. In law school this will not happen, it'll just make it that much harder for everyone to get better than a B+.

The harder the competition is the harder it is to get the good grades you need to truly succeed. I was in some incredibly competitive programs in undergrad and in a highly stressful and demanding job that could get people killed if I screwed up badly enough, and I'm telling you that law school stress is an entirely different kind of stress than you have ever faced before.

If you think you're prepared for it, that's a pretty good sign you're probably not.

nifer327
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby nifer327 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:18 pm

edit
Last edited by nifer327 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BriaTharen
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby BriaTharen » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:24 pm

I read <i>PLS II</i> and I can say this much: it does have some useful information, but it is a headache. Like another poster said, if you can make it through the typos and Falcon's ranting against the system, there is some good information. Falcon gives you a reading list in Chapter 16, along with a schedule to follow concerning the books. I'm planning on using it. But even Falcon says to consult your class list for the first semester- some of the books he recommends address topics that you won't get into until 2L, so you don't need to rush to read them now.

If you can avoid the level of pretentiousness the book has and wishes to pass onto you, you can get some good out of it.

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DoctorNick189
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby DoctorNick189 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:29 pm

nifer327 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
sneakersboy11 wrote:True, but I feel to some extent most prepared for this. Went to a top undergrad, work in very selective field. The shock of being surrounded of bright motivated people is the least of my concerns in LS right now.


In your very selective field, is your pay determined by how well your peers do? If your peers do better than you, do you get a pay cut?

That's pretty much what law school is like and why it is so very different than anything else. You are graded entirely based on your relative performance to your peers. In undergrad, half the people in a class could get As if they worked well enough. In law school this will not happen, it'll just make it that much harder for everyone to get better than a B+.

The harder the competition is the harder it is to get the good grades you need to truly succeed. I was in some incredibly competitive programs in undergrad and in a highly stressful and demanding job that could get people killed if I screwed up badly enough, and I'm telling you that law school stress is an entirely different kind of stress than you have ever faced before.

If you think you're prepared for it, that's a pretty good sign you're probably not.


Aren't you are 0L? Settle dude, it's not that bad.


Based on what some of my undergrad's alums who are in law school now and have graduated from law school have told me, if sneakers did actually go to a top undergrad (H/Y/P and their ilk), then no, the stress he will experience in law school will be very much like the stress he's faced before. The curve here works the same way it does in law school.

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98234872348
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby 98234872348 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:30 pm

nifer327 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
sneakersboy11 wrote:True, but I feel to some extent most prepared for this. Went to a top undergrad, work in very selective field. The shock of being surrounded of bright motivated people is the least of my concerns in LS right now.


In your very selective field, is your pay determined by how well your peers do? If your peers do better than you, do you get a pay cut?

That's pretty much what law school is like and why it is so very different than anything else. You are graded entirely based on your relative performance to your peers. In undergrad, half the people in a class could get As if they worked well enough. In law school this will not happen, it'll just make it that much harder for everyone to get better than a B+.

The harder the competition is the harder it is to get the good grades you need to truly succeed. I was in some incredibly competitive programs in undergrad and in a highly stressful and demanding job that could get people killed if I screwed up badly enough, and I'm telling you that law school stress is an entirely different kind of stress than you have ever faced before.

If you think you're prepared for it, that's a pretty good sign you're probably not.


Aren't you are 0L? Settle dude, it's not that bad.

This amount of fail is satisfying on so many levels...

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vanwinkle
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:24 pm

nifer327 wrote:Aren't you are 0L? Settle dude, it's not that bad.


I am a 1L at UVA, a T10 law school. My second final is tomorrow.

This is supposed to be one of the most laid-back and least stressful institutions, but the reality is that the stress is just a lot quieter, because the competitiveness is so less obvious than it is elsewhere. It's still there in full force, and everyone is aware of it.

DoctorNick189 wrote:Based on what some of my undergrad's alums who are in law school now and have graduated from law school have told me, if sneakers did actually go to a top undergrad (H/Y/P and their ilk), then no, the stress he will experience in law school will be very much like the stress he's faced before. The curve here works the same way it does in law school.


I went to a "top undergrad" (One of the most respected public UGs in the country) and nothing at all there was graded on a curve. Most UGs don't grade their classes on a curve. Even if they did, you still knew you could be the best in the class just by studying enough to get all the "right" answers to the questions on the final exam, and law school exams don't work like that at all. (This is also why I recommend spending time reading books like Thinking Like a Lawyer; you need to know how to respond to a question, which you're not gonna get taught very well at law school.) Any UG curve is probably not as steep as it is in law school, nor does it have such a damning effect on your job prospects. Everything in terms of job hunting is based on your 1L grades. That doesn't fully affect you until you're in the middle of 1L.

I'm gonna laugh so hard when you all are ready to killself this time next year. I'll be right here waiting to say "I told you so".

sneakersboy11
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby sneakersboy11 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:00 pm

DoctorNick189 wrote:
nifer327 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
sneakersboy11 wrote:True, but I feel to some extent most prepared for this. Went to a top undergrad, work in very selective field. The shock of being surrounded of bright motivated people is the least of my concerns in LS right now.


In your very selective field, is your pay determined by how well your peers do? If your peers do better than you, do you get a pay cut?

That's pretty much what law school is like and why it is so very different than anything else. You are graded entirely based on your relative performance to your peers. In undergrad, half the people in a class could get As if they worked well enough. In law school this will not happen, it'll just make it that much harder for everyone to get better than a B+.

The harder the competition is the harder it is to get the good grades you need to truly succeed. I was in some incredibly competitive programs in undergrad and in a highly stressful and demanding job that could get people killed if I screwed up badly enough, and I'm telling you that law school stress is an entirely different kind of stress than you have ever faced before.

If you think you're prepared for it, that's a pretty good sign you're probably not.


Aren't you are 0L? Settle dude, it's not that bad.


Based on what some of my undergrad's alums who are in law school now and have graduated from law school have told me, if sneakers did actually go to a top undergrad (H/Y/P and their ilk), then no, the stress he will experience in law school will be very much like the stress he's faced before. The curve here works the same way it does in law school.


My current comp is based on how I stack up against my class at my job. (FWIW, I went to a top 10 private and graduated in the top 20% of my class).

I'm not saying and I'm going to get to law school and kill it (in the least!). Rather I'm saying that I've been through the psychological hurdle of being placed in very competitive pools and having to sink or swim. And know what I learned? It's hard, I initially struggle, but my intelligence and work ethic do pretty well for me. I don't think I'm going into these places guaranteed to make law review, but I'm confident in my abilities and you should be too. They've gotten you this far, and will likely serve you well in LS.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:08 pm

Thread added to "View your posts."

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Genki
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby Genki » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:12 pm

These are the books I plan on reading:

Bear and the Dragon by Tom Clancy
Shogun by James Clavel
The Entire Harry Potter Series (wife has been bugging me to to read them)
The Law of Nines by Terry Goodkind
and
The Gunslinger by Stephen King

I figure I won't have a chance to read these once law school starts so I better read them now while I do have time. There will be plenty of time to study come September.

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IHaveDietMoxie
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby IHaveDietMoxie » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:28 pm

OH yeah I read "The Common Law" by O.W. Holmes, its really really interesting if you can trudge through the difficult writing. I also think it gives a lot of context to some of the stuff they will be teaching us, particularly because it originates or was filtered through this man.

Also, it's free on google books 8)

http://books.google.com/books?id=xXouAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=oliver+holmes+common+law&as_brr=1&ei=RTIgS5uyA6iWygTtjqmMCg&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

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kalvano
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby kalvano » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:37 pm

Genki wrote:The Gunslinger by Stephen King



One of my favorite books...you realize it spans 6 other Dark Tower books and about 10 other tie-ins in the Stephen King universe, though?

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soccersmo
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby soccersmo » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:38 pm

bookmarking

jk11287
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby jk11287 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:46 pm

Okay, so I guess the consensus is not to try to learn actual 1L content beforehand? There were a bunch of people freaking out about trying to learn everything over the summer in LSD awhile ago.

Snuffie
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby Snuffie » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:48 pm

MF248 wrote:1L & The Paper Chase. I like 1L more.

+1

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IHaveDietMoxie
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby IHaveDietMoxie » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:00 pm

amyLAchemist wrote:

Yea, I think a good deal of my summer before 1L will be spent on job research. I don't think I can handle doing this while simultaneously trying to study for exams.

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bettielocke
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby bettielocke » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:01 pm

.

sfdreaming09
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby sfdreaming09 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:22 pm

I've been out of school for a couple of years and my writing skills have probably gotten a bit rusty. Does anyone know of a good introductory book on legal writing?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:29 pm

sfdreaming09 wrote:I've been out of school for a couple of years and my writing skills have probably gotten a bit rusty. Does anyone know of a good introductory book on legal writing?


No, but after going through LRW this semester I can easily recommend a couple bad ones.

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SeymourShowz
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby SeymourShowz » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:37 pm

sfdreaming09 wrote:I've been out of school for a couple of years and my writing skills have probably gotten a bit rusty. Does anyone know of a good introductory book on legal writing?


I've heard good things about this one... But I haven't read it (yet).

http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Legal-St ... 0195141628

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Genki
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby Genki » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:52 am

kalvano wrote:
Genki wrote:The Gunslinger by Stephen King



One of my favorite books...you realize it spans 6 other Dark Tower books and about 10 other tie-ins in the Stephen King universe, though?


Yeah, I've been meaning to get around to reading them for quite a while. I actually own the first 5 books. They've just been sitting on my book shelf for the last year or so. Now that I've finally graduated, I have a little time to actually read something that isn't a text book or a scholarly journal.

sckon
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby sckon » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:14 am

I am going to start my reading binge with The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky.

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GlobeTrotter
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Re: Books to read before Fall (distraction from the waiting)

Postby GlobeTrotter » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:32 am

vanwinkle wrote:
sneakersboy11 wrote:True, but I feel to some extent most prepared for this. Went to a top undergrad, work in very selective field. The shock of being surrounded of bright motivated people is the least of my concerns in LS right now.


In your very selective field, is your pay determined by how well your peers do? If your peers do better than you, do you get a pay cut?

That's pretty much what law school is like and why it is so very different than anything else. You are graded entirely based on your relative performance to your peers. In undergrad, half the people in a class could get As if they worked well enough. In law school this will not happen, it'll just make it that much harder for everyone to get better than a B+.

The harder the competition is the harder it is to get the good grades you need to truly succeed. I was in some incredibly competitive programs in undergrad and in a highly stressful and demanding job that could get people killed if I screwed up badly enough, and I'm telling you that law school stress is an entirely different kind of stress than you have ever faced before.

If you think you're prepared for it, that's a pretty good sign you're probably not.


I guess I don't really see how this "realization" should affect my strategy? Should I be ripping pages out of other people's text books? Stealing laptops in the library? How can you do anything more than what you did in UG? (Try to ace the exam)




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