Rutgers Newark

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:21 am

I meant to say their clinics and skills seminars seem limited in comparison to competing Tri-State schools (Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn, Seton Hall, SJU).

By Media I did mean what you addressed, but also symposia, student held events, shaping their brand on the website, etc.

And by entrepreneurship, I meant a growing spirit to start your own initiatives within the RU community. For instance, how many new programs, organizations, events, policy issue seminars are held and started by students? Are they encouraged by RU? What if they are highly disagreeable to the ideological leanings of the school? Does the administration welcome motivated and energetic students who want to come in there and shake things up a bit? OR Are they more comfortable with RU's status quo because they have become insiders to the way it is? Even though money is a big obstacle, I still feel their energy could be a bit more like other schools in the area in this regard. When you visit BLS, Dozo, SHU, they all have this certain energy, whether a visit to the website or a visit to the school.

Again, thanks for the lengthy response. It was candid and did answer those concerns while making them feel somewhat warranted. I mean, I am here right? So you know I have made it further than most students who give into gimmicks. I just want to make sure that they are for the most part- just gimmicks. I could potentially put a value on some aspects of schools' energy and compare the costs of each after scholarships, so these are precautionary concerns to be sure Iean the right way in the end. They are concerns, in which I had always been aware of, hence my use of the term "confirm," but now its coming close to decision time.

It is good to hear that the upperclassman put on events to help students network and take advantage of the contacts that are at their disposal. This type of communal facilitation is important for law school. I still don't get why alumni outreach isn't stronger to help aid more these types of things with Rutgers. Are good managers and administrators really that expensive to obtain? How hard is it to brainstorm and shake a school up? Especially one with a brand name like Rutgers.
Last edited by bernie shmegma on Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:23 am

nyjfanjmk wrote:
bernie shmegma wrote:So I am concerned about the energy of Rutgers. These may be shallow concerns, but they also may indicate something.

Admitted students day is decent. They give you some food, let you sit in a class, ask some questions, but the whole thing is not much of a seller. In fact in kind of confirms my concerns that I find when navigating their awful website. This makes me feel like their budgetary issues are very significant. The amount of clinics or practical skill seminars seem to either be limited or inadequately represented to those outside of the school. They don't offer any vibrant media, they have few events and gatherings, networking opportunities, seem little concerned with marketability, and don't advocate much for student entrepreneurship. Their career services don't seem to be pro-active in maintaining strong relationships with private sector firms or at least they don't show it at all. It's like the school only cares about facilitating public interest and doing so at as little cost a possible without regard for innovation and energetic outreach. The place seems to be one big public bureaucracy.

Does anyone disagree? If you convince me and I confirm your answer, I will delete this post.


I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think your concerns might be irrelevant. If you're really planning on going to the law school that gives you the flashiest presentation at admitted students' day, then maybe Rutgers isn't the place for you. Keep in mind that this is law school, and what you should be sold on is not how "sexy" the school is but how good of a fit it is for you. If you think that Rutgers is the best place for you to attend law school, then go. If not, don't. It's that simple. Don't make a decision based on how "flashy" of a school it is.


First of all, if that is all I cared about I wouldn't have withdrawn my admittance from Cardozo. Second of all, money and investment is what concerns me and these seemingly and admittedly somewhat superficial types of things may effect a lot more than just facade. Its not an all or nothing thing for me. On one extreme, I'm not willing to drop 200K for the "energy" of a school. On the other, I don't want to miss out on a compromise of sorts between affordability and "energy," which I still have other options for, but they are still in absolute terms more money than Rutgers. So, I am inquiring about my impressions and expressing these thoughts, many of which have been acknowledged by others as a relief and as valid concerns with considerable foresight in mind. But, don't worry you're not raining on my parade, especially because I woulnd't just go to a school that is the "best" place for me to attend. Such a statement is not so dissimilar from deciding on "flash." This decision is not that simple.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:48 pm

bernie, when I went to the small group session the faculty there talked about plenty of student initiatives, so I don't think that's the concern. Again, I didn't go to ASD, so I don't know if there was a different "vibe" there or anything. But if you didn't like RU-N, you have every right not to like it, and if you know you're not going to go there and you prefer SHU, that isn't a problem either. Go to the school you want to go to.

Anyway, for the schools I've been accepted at it's down to RU-N and RU-C. Went to the RU-C event today and I have to admit I'm probably leaning that way at the moment (which could partially be with ASD excitement -- they seriously brought out the "Big Guns" including an amazing Crim Law prof that my parents had back in the 70's), but I still need to do a ton more thinking. I'm going to ask RU-N if they can extend my deadline because April 1st is too soon (I have a 5/1 deadline at RU-C).

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:07 pm

keg411 wrote:bernie, when I went to the small group session the faculty there talked about plenty of student initiatives, so I don't think that's the concern. Again, I didn't go to ASD, so I don't know if there was a different "vibe" there or anything. But if you didn't like RU-N, you have every right not to like it, and if you know you're not going to go there and you prefer SHU, that isn't a problem either. Go to the school you want to go to.

Anyway, for the schools I've been accepted at it's down to RU-N and RU-C. Went to the RU-C event today and I have to admit I'm probably leaning that way at the moment (which could partially be with ASD excitement -- they seriously brought out the "Big Guns" including an amazing Crim Law prof that my parents had back in the 70's), but I still need to do a ton more thinking. I'm going to ask RU-N if they can extend my deadline because April 1st is too soon (I have a 5/1 deadline at RU-C).


RU-N is still the front runner because I am not just deciding my law school on the school I WANT to go to. I think the odds of regret are much higher with that approach. So, like you, I am considering other things. The aforementioned issues are some of which are on my mind.

BTW, does anyone happen to know how the Moot Court program is at Rutgers? Specifically, is it accessible? Is their affirmative action for Moot Court too?

get it to x
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby get it to x » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:24 pm

keg411 wrote:bernie, when I went to the small group session the faculty there talked about plenty of student initiatives, so I don't think that's the concern. Again, I didn't go to ASD, so I don't know if there was a different "vibe" there or anything. But if you didn't like RU-N, you have every right not to like it, and if you know you're not going to go there and you prefer SHU, that isn't a problem either. Go to the school you want to go to.

Anyway, for the schools I've been accepted at it's down to RU-N and RU-C. Went to the RU-C event today and I have to admit I'm probably leaning that way at the moment (which could partially be with ASD excitement -- they seriously brought out the "Big Guns" including an amazing Crim Law prof that my parents had back in the 70's), but I still need to do a ton more thinking. I'm going to ask RU-N if they can extend my deadline because April 1st is too soon (I have a 5/1 deadline at RU-C).


Keg, I'm pretty sure the 1st deposit date is April 15 not the 1st. I don't have the admit letter in front of me, but that's when I believe it is.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:27 pm

get it to x wrote:
keg411 wrote:bernie, when I went to the small group session the faculty there talked about plenty of student initiatives, so I don't think that's the concern. Again, I didn't go to ASD, so I don't know if there was a different "vibe" there or anything. But if you didn't like RU-N, you have every right not to like it, and if you know you're not going to go there and you prefer SHU, that isn't a problem either. Go to the school you want to go to.

Anyway, for the schools I've been accepted at it's down to RU-N and RU-C. Went to the RU-C event today and I have to admit I'm probably leaning that way at the moment (which could partially be with ASD excitement -- they seriously brought out the "Big Guns" including an amazing Crim Law prof that my parents had back in the 70's), but I still need to do a ton more thinking. I'm going to ask RU-N if they can extend my deadline because April 1st is too soon (I have a 5/1 deadline at RU-C).


Keg, I'm pretty sure the 1st deposit date is April 15 not the 1st. I don't have the admit letter in front of me, but that's when I believe it is.


My letter has a different date.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:11 pm

Its due the 1st, but you can get a refund up to July 1st. There is no substantial reason for your purposes not to give the deposit now.
Last edited by bernie shmegma on Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

MIA
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby MIA » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:17 pm

bernie shmegma wrote:I meant to say their clinics and skills seminars seem limited in comparison to competing Tri-State schools (Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn, Seton Hall, SJU).

By Media I did mean what you addressed, but also symposia, student held events, shaping their brand on the website, etc.

And by entrepreneurship, I meant a growing spirit to start your own initiatives within the RU community. For instance, how many new programs, organizations, events, policy issue seminars are held and started by students? Are they encouraged by RU? What if they are highly disagreeable to the ideological leanings of the school? Does the administration welcome motivated and energetic students who want to come in there and shake things up a bit? OR Are they more comfortable with RU's status quo because they have become insiders to the way it is? Even though money is a big obstacle, I still feel their energy could be a bit more like other schools in the area in this regard. When you visit BLS, Dozo, SHU, they all have this certain energy, whether a visit to the website or a visit to the school.

Again, thanks for the lengthy response. It was candid and did answer those concerns while making them feel somewhat warranted. I mean, I am here right? So you know I have made it further than most students who give into gimmicks. I just want to make sure that they are for the most part- just gimmicks. I could potentially put a value on some aspects of schools' energy and compare the costs of each after scholarships, so these are precautionary concerns to be sure Iean the right way in the end. They are concerns, in which I had always been aware of, hence my use of the term "confirm," but now its coming close to decision time.

It is good to hear that the upperclassman put on events to help students network and take advantage of the contacts that are at their disposal. This type of communal facilitation is important for law school. I still don't get why alumni outreach isn't stronger to help aid more these types of things with Rutgers. Are good managers and administrators really that expensive to obtain? How hard is it to brainstorm and shake a school up? Especially one with a brand name like Rutgers.


Clinics: Rutgers has many and they are well respected. Check it out on the website.

Media: We have tons of student groups and student held events. For example, just today we had Senator Rob Menendez speak about Immigration Reform with other panelists at our campus. This event was held by the student immigration group at our school. I heard there was even some media present (does this show energy for you?)

Website: Seriously? that's a substantial factor in your decision? I doubt the people that judge schools in the US News Ranking will give a school extra points in reputation because they have an attractive website. But if it really is a huge concern to you, and if you decide to join us next year, then maybe you can talk to the Dean of Students. He is very open to new ideas.

Energy: Ok seriously, what is this "certain energy" that you speak of? You are ambiguously generalizing the school based on a narrow and ridiculous observation - a few hours of visitation on the worst day of the week. Don't make conclusions like that in front of professors or they will chew you up. I have seen so much energy in this school that its ridiculous. Most of the student organizations host panels, symposiums, social events, resume/interview/skills workshops etc.. If i have time later maybe I can share some of my experiences, but check out the student groups here http://law.newark.rutgers.edu/students/ ... anizations

Oh, and on your moot court question. They grade you based on your LRW Appellate Brief (40%) and your Oral Argument (60%). Basically, you need an A- or an A in your appellate Brief and you need to do a kick ass oral argument in front of the judges.

MIA
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby MIA » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:21 pm

keg411 wrote:bernie, when I went to the small group session the faculty there talked about plenty of student initiatives, so I don't think that's the concern. Again, I didn't go to ASD, so I don't know if there was a different "vibe" there or anything. But if you didn't like RU-N, you have every right not to like it, and if you know you're not going to go there and you prefer SHU, that isn't a problem either. Go to the school you want to go to.

Anyway, for the schools I've been accepted at it's down to RU-N and RU-C. Went to the RU-C event today and I have to admit I'm probably leaning that way at the moment (which could partially be with ASD excitement -- they seriously brought out the "Big Guns" including an amazing Crim Law prof that my parents had back in the 70's), but I still need to do a ton more thinking. I'm going to ask RU-N if they can extend my deadline because April 1st is too soon (I have a 5/1 deadline at RU-C).


I think you should think about where you want to practice. If you want to practice in North Jersey or New York then Rutgers-Newark is the way to go. If you want Phili, then go for Rutgers-Camden. Also, if you want biglaw, your chances increase twofold at Rutgers Newark.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:33 pm

MIA wrote:
bernie shmegma wrote:I meant to say their clinics and skills seminars seem limited in comparison to competing Tri-State schools (Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn, Seton Hall, SJU).

By Media I did mean what you addressed, but also symposia, student held events, shaping their brand on the website, etc.

And by entrepreneurship, I meant a growing spirit to start your own initiatives within the RU community. For instance, how many new programs, organizations, events, policy issue seminars are held and started by students? Are they encouraged by RU? What if they are highly disagreeable to the ideological leanings of the school? Does the administration welcome motivated and energetic students who want to come in there and shake things up a bit? OR Are they more comfortable with RU's status quo because they have become insiders to the way it is? Even though money is a big obstacle, I still feel their energy could be a bit more like other schools in the area in this regard. When you visit BLS, Dozo, SHU, they all have this certain energy, whether a visit to the website or a visit to the school.

Again, thanks for the lengthy response. It was candid and did answer those concerns while making them feel somewhat warranted. I mean, I am here right? So you know I have made it further than most students who give into gimmicks. I just want to make sure that they are for the most part- just gimmicks. I could potentially put a value on some aspects of schools' energy and compare the costs of each after scholarships, so these are precautionary concerns to be sure Iean the right way in the end. They are concerns, in which I had always been aware of, hence my use of the term "confirm," but now its coming close to decision time.

It is good to hear that the upperclassman put on events to help students network and take advantage of the contacts that are at their disposal. This type of communal facilitation is important for law school. I still don't get why alumni outreach isn't stronger to help aid more these types of things with Rutgers. Are good managers and administrators really that expensive to obtain? How hard is it to brainstorm and shake a school up? Especially one with a brand name like Rutgers.


Clinics: Rutgers has many and they are well respected. Check it out on the website.

Media: We have tons of student groups and student held events. For example, just today we had Senator Rob Menendez speak about Immigration Reform with other panelists at our campus. This event was held by the student immigration group at our school. I heard there was even some media present (does this show energy for you?)

Website: Seriously? that's a substantial factor in your decision? I doubt the people that judge schools in the US News Ranking will give a school extra points in reputation because they have an attractive website. But if it really is a huge concern to you, and if you decide to join us next year, then maybe you can talk to the Dean of Students. He is very open to new ideas.

Energy: Ok seriously, what is this "certain energy" that you speak of? You are ambiguously generalizing the school based on a narrow and ridiculous observation - a few hours of visitation on the worst day of the week. Don't make conclusions like that in front of professors or they will chew you up. I have seen so much energy in this school that its ridiculous. Most of the student organizations host panels, symposiums, social events, resume/interview/skills workshops etc.. If i have time later maybe I can share some of my experiences, but check out the student groups here http://law.newark.rutgers.edu/students/ ... anizations

Oh, and on your moot court question. They grade you based on your LRW Appellate Brief (40%) and your Oral Argument (60%). Basically, you need an A- or an A in your appellate Brief and you need to do a kick ass oral argument in front of the judges.


Now, that's a fucking answer. I've spoken to two current students, visited twice, and practically memorized the entire website and still felt that I had to be missing something. Other responses from talking to students at different schools, my experiences there on the days I went to visit, my acceptance packages & marketing material, and the website is all I have to judge the respective schools. Being that I know RU may not quite have the resources to waste on these stupid things, I just wanted to make sure that what could not be demonstrated as competitively as other tri-state schools to prospective students (this phenomenon in which you mocked, but I call "energy" ) was not in fact absent from Rutgers. I think I have a bit more confidence now, assuming you're a trustworthy authority on the other end of this thread. I would like to point out this recent little rant of mine was different than making an assumption or definitive claim. Rather its objective was to be re-assured that there is not such unknown reality behind my concerns or to find out if there is and to react accordingly. Believe me, I have deliberated plenty on my decision and the blurb you have come across is the last of my anxiety before making a final decision. Although, I think you would be surprised how much this may be helpful to other students who may think these things, but not realize or not admit to them. If this could help one other person sort out their thoughts in the future, then I think it was worth divulging them. Additionally, I think it has been noted that they were not unwarranted and totally inaccurate either. However, I have a better feeling that they are not nearly indicative enough of what I feared to make me question my preference for Rutgers over the schools I am passing up. As judicious and prudent as one may be when deciding to not just go to a top 50 ranked school "without looking back," there are still those superficial aspects- that lure many other students- to get over (almost there). Of course all of this shit will mean nothing once at school or even by summer, but it means something now from the perspective of an admitted student who wants to have complete confidence after withdrawing and committing.
Last edited by bernie shmegma on Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:54 pm

BTW Bob Menendez has hot staff assistants, or at least he used to. Just met him the other day again after a forum ironically enough that you bring that up. Very good speaker. The issue was not immigration reform though. We don't agree on much, but what we do agree on, he's a pretty strong supporter, or at least his rhetoric seems to indicate so. I saw he was coming to Rutgers through the WEBSITE! Hope you had the chance to attend.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:00 am

MIA wrote:I think you should think about where you want to practice. If you want to practice in North Jersey or New York then Rutgers-Newark is the way to go. If you want Phili, then go for Rutgers-Camden. Also, if you want biglaw, your chances increase twofold at Rutgers Newark.


I know :). That still doesn't mean it isn't a tricky decision to make. There are a lot of positives about both Rutgers schools that make them equally appealing regardless of location (Although I live up in North NJ now, I'm not 100% sold in staying in the NY metro forever and Philly holds a ton of appeal for that).

lovaholic
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby lovaholic » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:11 pm

@Wizoz and anyone else-- here are some highlights from ASD on Friday.

I have to agree with one of the previous posts about RU not trying to "sell" itself too hard but simply showcasing what they have to offer and allowing you to decide if that's the right place for you.

Some impt. take aways--> the clinical program placement process--it was mentioned that you may not get your first pick as a 2L but that you would ultimately be placed in your first choice if you had not gotten it originally.

The scholarships available as a 2L and 3L are not very large-- max like 3K. Usually people get 1 to 2k.

They were pushing clerkships hard-which goes along with their placement numbers.

I spoke to one of the career services representatives because I wanted to gauge how supportive they would be in helping you reach out to firms that don't recruit at Rutgers and it does seem like there is a good amount of students who do some of the leg work on their own. With some guidance from that office-they seem to be successful.

I thought all the professors showed great enthusiasm for the work they're doing and they were all really funny. Dean Walton was actually nice (i've had awful experiences with her and the admissions office on the phone)

There were three different panels you could attend, family law, criminal law and an eminent domain related one. They stressed that you should not work during your first semester---maybe your second semester. Also, if you DO receive WORK-STUDY as part of your financial aid-'delay' it to your second semester but def take "SOME" of it-- even if it's a small amount. If you reject Work Study funds--you will not be offered them again.

What's the best preparation for law school?? Be a 50 book a year reader. Get used to reading for long periods of time without wanting to go on Facebook. ha! As a lawyer you've chosen to be a "professional reader".

The financial aid rep- Nicky Fornarotto was super helpful and very detailed on her kind of long presentation. :)

beast510
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby beast510 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:25 pm

made my $300 deposit to RU-N.

Now, I'm just curious if there is anyway that we can have a MSN group or something. Just want to chat with my future school mates. Not sure if it's a good idea.

lovaholic
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby lovaholic » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:38 pm

bernie shmegma wrote:So I am concerned about the energy of Rutgers. These may be shallow concerns, but they also may indicate something.

Admitted students day is decent. They give you some food, let you sit in a class, ask some questions, but the whole thing is not much of a seller. In fact in kind of confirms my concerns that I find when navigating their awful website. This makes me feel like their budgetary issues are very significant. The amount of clinics or practical skill seminars seem to either be limited or inadequately represented to those outside of the school. They don't offer any vibrant media, they have few events and gatherings, networking opportunities, seem little concerned with marketability, and don't advocate much for student entrepreneurship. Their career services don't seem to be pro-active in maintaining strong relationships with private sector firms or at least they don't show it at all. It's like the school only cares about facilitating public interest and doing so at as little cost a possible without regard for innovation and energetic outreach. The place seems to be one big public bureaucracy.

Does anyone disagree? If you convince me and I confirm your answer, I will delete this post.



Hey Bernie! Rutgers is a very large university-and the feel to each campus is very different. The Newark campus as a whole- I would say has the reputation among all three of being the MOST proactive and 'progressive'. You will find bureaucracy at ALL levels, just because it is SO large. But I think you experience that more once you become involved in administrative issues. (prob the SBA kids feel this the most). As a general student I think you would be pleased to know even with a tight budget and a looming axe from Trenton- they continue to work on their 'branding' more. Check this initiative out: http://identity.rutgers.edu/

The RU-Newark's website last year was TERRIBLE. Worse than it is now. Now it 'fits' with the main RU page and the others at the University.

I asked a student at ASD about the budget cuts and if there were rumblings of classes being cut and she said they were not. She mentioned they were hiring more professors. But--she was the student they picked to be at ASD-so take that with a grain of salt.

So-they're trying to be more flashy-they're aware .http://president.rutgers.edu/letter_110705.shtml

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:43 pm

beast510 wrote:made my $300 deposit to RU-N.

Now, I'm just curious if there is anyway that we can have a MSN group or something. Just want to chat with my future school mates. Not sure if it's a good idea.


I think a good compromise this early on is to make a private chat on TLS. Can you do that? I don't know if we're all ready to open up quite yet, I barely know your Tar.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:07 pm

lovaholic wrote:
bernie shmegma wrote:So I am concerned about the energy of Rutgers. These may be shallow concerns, but they also may indicate something.

Admitted students day is decent. They give you some food, let you sit in a class, ask some questions, but the whole thing is not much of a seller. In fact in kind of confirms my concerns that I find when navigating their awful website. This makes me feel like their budgetary issues are very significant. The amount of clinics or practical skill seminars seem to either be limited or inadequately represented to those outside of the school. They don't offer any vibrant media, they have few events and gatherings, networking opportunities, seem little concerned with marketability, and don't advocate much for student entrepreneurship. Their career services don't seem to be pro-active in maintaining strong relationships with private sector firms or at least they don't show it at all. It's like the school only cares about facilitating public interest and doing so at as little cost a possible without regard for innovation and energetic outreach. The place seems to be one big public bureaucracy.

Does anyone disagree? If you convince me and I confirm your answer, I will delete this post.



Hey Bernie! Rutgers is a very large university-and the feel to each campus is very different. The Newark campus as a whole- I would say has the reputation among all three of being the MOST proactive and 'progressive'. You will find bureaucracy at ALL levels, just because it is SO large. But I think you experience that more once you become involved in administrative issues. (prob the SBA kids feel this the most). As a general student I think you would be pleased to know even with a tight budget and a looming axe from Trenton- they continue to work on their 'branding' more. Check this initiative out: http://identity.rutgers.edu/

The RU-Newark's website last year was TERRIBLE. Worse than it is now. Now it 'fits' with the main RU page and the others at the University.

I asked a student at ASD about the budget cuts and if there were rumblings of classes being cut and she said they were not. She mentioned they were hiring more professors. But--she was the student they picked to be at ASD-so take that with a grain of salt.

So-they're trying to be more flashy-they're aware .http://president.rutgers.edu/letter_110705.shtml


I wonder what the barriers to entry is to being on SBA or starting your own organizations & initiatives? Thanks for sharing that there is at least some self-awareness going on there. Its a step in the right direction. I hope that they would welcome some innovation. BTW that letter was 5 years ago haha. THAT"S IT, I cant take it anymore. Jersey pride does not belong on the sideline. I'm going to RU if they'll have me, but they better be prepared to tolerate my pain in the ass.

afterglow99
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby afterglow99 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:13 pm

Rutgers1L_10 wrote:I don't want this to seem like I'm invalidating your concerns. Actually, it's refreshing to see someone thinking ahead and trying to find the nuances and all the negatives of a school. It's easy to like a school for the positive. The question is, will you like your school when you realize all the negative? You can't accurately judge the school or it's resources on one afternoon. But, Rutgers is a public school with limited funds, and a mission to recruit, retain, and graduate community-focused, and well rounded, lawyers. They don't care about spending money in a way that influences US News. That works to their detriment, but mostly it's just superficial. It hardly changes anything academic, but it doesn't sit well with a lot of students. There are a number of schools that can afford to spend the money on recruiting, advertising, and outreach--mostly all the private schools in the area are known for just that. If you want to know what the differences in the ranks are--there it is. Your tuition dollars at (Cardozo, St. Johns, Brooklyn etc.) are being spent on those things. If those are important to you, then make sure you evaluate that in your decision because Rutgers doesn't plan to change any time soon.


They definitely care about spending money to get their ranking up, but they simply know they can't do it. There's a reason they kicked out Dean Deutsche after the school plummeted in the ranks over the last fifteen years. I remember at last year's accepted students day they mentioned that they're not that not really concerned with US News, but I think they are just trying to save face as the rank slips. The T3 abyss is close by, and while it certainly doesn't mean they quality of the education is slipping, it could have a huge effect on the quality of future applicants. They care, but I don't think they can do anything about it. I also don't buy their talk about how their admissions are less numbers based that other similar schools (they have the lowest undergrad gpa range of any school in the top 100 and seem to blindly auto-admit people with an LSAT over 160).

Rutgers makes sense for many people because, unlike most T2s, it charges a tuition in line with its career prospects. If you want to work in NYC but you can't get into NYU/Columbia/Fordham, the only school you should really be considering is Rutgers. It's absolutely absurd to pay 45k a year for st johns/bls/dozo/hofstra. You're not gonna come out of Rutgers making six figures (most likely), but that's okay because you won't have 200k in debt either. For those considering the school, I can't emphasize enough how important this consideration should be. Don't pay Harvard/Yale tuition for a very different degree!

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:27 pm

Is there really a chance RU-N slips to TTT-dom? This worries me.

BTW, if you look at this year's LSN grid there are low GPA WL's with over 160 LSAT's so maybe they changed taking "everyone" with a 160 and a pulse.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:34 pm

afterglow99 wrote:
Rutgers1L_10 wrote:I don't want this to seem like I'm invalidating your concerns. Actually, it's refreshing to see someone thinking ahead and trying to find the nuances and all the negatives of a school. It's easy to like a school for the positive. The question is, will you like your school when you realize all the negative? You can't accurately judge the school or it's resources on one afternoon. But, Rutgers is a public school with limited funds, and a mission to recruit, retain, and graduate community-focused, and well rounded, lawyers. They don't care about spending money in a way that influences US News. That works to their detriment, but mostly it's just superficial. It hardly changes anything academic, but it doesn't sit well with a lot of students. There are a number of schools that can afford to spend the money on recruiting, advertising, and outreach--mostly all the private schools in the area are known for just that. If you want to know what the differences in the ranks are--there it is. Your tuition dollars at (Cardozo, St. Johns, Brooklyn etc.) are being spent on those things. If those are important to you, then make sure you evaluate that in your decision because Rutgers doesn't plan to change any time soon.


They definitely care about spending money to get their ranking up, but they simply know they can't do it. There's a reason they kicked out Dean Deutsche after the school plummeted in the ranks over the last fifteen years. I remember at last year's accepted students day they mentioned that they're not that not really concerned with US News, but I think they are just trying to save face as the rank slips. The T3 abyss is close by, and while it certainly doesn't mean they quality of the education is slipping, it could have a huge effect on the quality of future applicants. They care, but I don't think they can do anything about it. I also don't buy their talk about how their admissions are less numbers based that other similar schools (they have the lowest undergrad gpa range of any school in the top 100 and seem to blindly auto-admit people with an LSAT over 160).

Rutgers makes sense for many people because, unlike most T2s, it charges a tuition in line with its career prospects. If you want to work in NYC but you can't get into NYU/Columbia/Fordham, the only school you should really be considering is Rutgers. It's absolutely absurd to pay 45k a year for st johns/bls/dozo/hofstra. You're not gonna come out of Rutgers making six figures (most likely), but that's okay because you won't have 200k in debt either. For those considering the school, I can't emphasize enough how important this consideration should be. Don't pay Harvard/Yale tuition for a very different degree!


I agree with that for the most part. I mean, they definitely care less about the rankings and do sacrifice more for other reasons than most schools, but they would certainly like that not to be the case. I personally think that they could do a lot with very simple measures, but just need some managerially savvy administrators and some assertive personalities. Hopefully the switch in deans will help the process.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:46 pm

keg411 wrote:Is there really a chance RU-N slips to TTT-dom? This worries me.

BTW, if you look at this year's LSN grid there are low GPA WL's with over 160 LSAT's so maybe they changed taking "everyone" with a 160 and a pulse.


Did it really take that post for this to occur to you? Of course there is a chance. The pattern of RU has been descending since the 90's and reached 87 last year from 77 the previous year. That means that in one more year, if the pattern from last year indicates a CHANCE that it could happen again, then it would be at 97. 101-97= 4. That is just 4 spots from being off the top 100 chart. If the difference between 101 (because it qualifies as third tier and doesn't get assigned a special little number in the printed USNEWS) and 87 bothers you, then you should be worrying about the difference between RU-C and RU-N in the rankings as they stand now. Be consistent on principle. However, the reality of such a difference is an idiotic measurement to follow for the quality of education and its value whether comparing #110 with #40 or #87 wit #77. Thus, for your situation, I wouldn't be worrying about THAT...

Read afterglow's second graph. He's a wise man.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:02 pm

Because I have a weird thing in my brain that would bother me if I went to a 3rd tier school; I know it's kind of stupid but it's true. I don't want to go to a REAL TTT and that's something my brain doesn't want to process. Once you're in the "unranked" zone, I worry about the school just failing to ever get out. I dunno, it's kind of weird and stupid, but it's true for me at least. The 10 spots between Rutgers and Rutgers don't bother me, but the third tier does.

Believe me, I know about the debt, hence why I'm down to the 2 schools where my debt will be well under $100k so it won't suck if I get a lower paying job out of law school.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:14 pm

keg411 wrote:Because I have a weird thing in my brain that would bother me if I went to a 3rd tier school; I know it's kind of stupid but it's true. I don't want to go to a REAL TTT and that's something my brain doesn't want to process. Once you're in the "unranked" zone, I worry about the school just failing to ever get out. I dunno, it's kind of weird and stupid, but it's true for me at least. The 10 spots between Rutgers and Rutgers don't bother me, but the third tier does.

Believe me, I know about the debt, hence why I'm down to the 2 schools where my debt will be well under $100k so it won't suck if I get a lower paying job out of law school.


If you only got into school #85 @ 45 K per year vs. # 101 @ 25K per year, you're telling me the latter is just something you can't stomach?

Educate yourself: http://www.educationsector.org/research ... _id=404230

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:20 pm

Whatever, I don't want to argue about this. I said it was a weird personal brain block and wasn't necessarily rational or reality-based. Plus, for me the costs would be equal at both schools so your point makes no sense and doesn't apply in my situation.

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Re: Rutgers Newark

Postby bernie shmegma » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:27 pm

keg411 wrote:Whatever, I don't want to argue about this. I said it was a weird personal brain block and wasn't necessarily rational or reality-based. Plus, for me the costs would be equal at both schools so your point makes no sense and doesn't apply in my situation.


Its the principle for which I am discussing. I know it doesn't apply n your case, which is why I gave you another case. I'm trying to put your mind at ease by facilitating rational thought. It would apply to more than just money, but also as a principle when considering other factors. If you want to accept your "weird brain block" go ahead.
Last edited by bernie shmegma on Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.




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