Top Law Schools

Thanks to all the current RU students looking over this thread the last few months, you've all been great. I wonder if any of you guys could try and give an accurate picture of the employment prospects for graduates. I've found it difficult to navigate the space between the website's inflated median salary info and the naysayers of TLS who say nobody will ever get a job other than doc review etc. coming out of a T2, to get a solid idea of what job prospects are really like. I am by no means biglaw or bust, but thinking through all the factors in my decision of whether or not to attend, it's really about whether or not I can be confident in landing a job out of school where I can live on my own, pay bills, have a little leftover, etc. (my debt should be relatively minimal) So... what can one really expect graduating from RU? Are a large percentage of graduates unable to find jobs that fit the description I gave? What do you hear about hiring changes over the next few years?

I'm sure my post seems pretty uninformed, and I suppose that's because it is, but any words from you guys about RU-N specifically in regards to my questions would go a long way. Thanks again.

champ33 wrote:Thanks to all the current RU students looking over this thread the last few months, you've all been great. I wonder if any of you guys could try and give an accurate picture of the employment prospects for graduates. I've found it difficult to navigate the space between the website's inflated median salary info and the naysayers of TLS who say nobody will ever get a job other than doc review etc. coming out of a T2, to get a solid idea of what job prospects are really like. I am by no means biglaw or bust, but thinking through all the factors in my decision of whether or not to attend, it's really about whether or not I can be confident in landing a job out of school where I can live on my own, pay bills, have a little leftover, etc. (my debt should be relatively minimal) So... what can one really expect graduating from RU? Are a large percentage of graduates unable to find jobs that fit the description I gave? What do you hear about hiring changes over the next few years?

I'm sure my post seems pretty uninformed, and I suppose that's because it is, but any words from you guys about RU-N specifically in regards to my questions would go a long way. Thanks again.

The question regarding RU's stats has been discussed before, just search for "rutgers," a thread will pop up dealing with same.

nevermind, here you go: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=42649e

Take from it what you will, you don't seem too......enthused?

For those who will attend RU-N this fall, I got three questions:

1) Have you received your room assignment, if you have already applied for on-campus housing, esp. unversity square.

2) Have you received a decision about Graduate Plus, if you have applied?

3) Did you receive an email saying that we can use our own account as a student account? If so, how to set up? I just can't find where to start.

Thanks in advance. See you next month!

beast510 wrote:For those who will attend RU-N this fall, I got three questions:

1) Have you received your room assignment, if you have already applied for on-campus housing, esp. unversity square.

2) Have you received a decision about Graduate Plus, if you have applied?

3) Did you receive an email saying that we can use our own account as a student account? If so, how to set up? I just can't find where to start.

Thanks in advance. See you next month!

1. Not living on campus.

2. No

3. Don't understand the question- are you referring to the email about getting our refund check deposited directly into our bank account? If so, then I just clicked on the link in the email and went from there.

champ33 wrote:Thanks to all the current RU students looking over this thread the last few months, you've all been great. I wonder if any of you guys could try and give an accurate picture of the employment prospects for graduates. I've found it difficult to navigate the space between the website's inflated median salary info and the naysayers of TLS who say nobody will ever get a job other than doc review etc. coming out of a T2, to get a solid idea of what job prospects are really like. I am by no means biglaw or bust, but thinking through all the factors in my decision of whether or not to attend, it's really about whether or not I can be confident in landing a job out of school where I can live on my own, pay bills, have a little leftover, etc. (my debt should be relatively minimal) So... what can one really expect graduating from RU? Are a large percentage of graduates unable to find jobs that fit the description I gave? What do you hear about hiring changes over the next few years?

I'm sure my post seems pretty uninformed, and I suppose that's because it is, but any words from you guys about RU-N specifically in regards to my questions would go a long way. Thanks again.

Don't attend so I can't speak to specifics, but NALP shows 62 employers coming to campus. This includes multiple offices from the same firm so the number of distinct employers is less. Don't know what you're shooting for, but also interested to know how much this number has dropped from prior years.

audrey hepburn wrote:

beast510 wrote:For those who will attend RU-N this fall, I got three questions:

1) Have you received your room assignment, if you have already applied for on-campus housing, esp. unversity square.

2) Have you received a decision about Graduate Plus, if you have applied?

3) Did you receive an email saying that we can use our own account as a student account? If so, how to set up? I just can't find where to start.

Thanks in advance. See you next month!

1. No I didn't, but they said they should be out by the end of this month.

2. No

3. Don't understand the question- are you referring to the email about getting our refund check deposited directly into our bank account? If so, then I just clicked on the link in the email and went from there.

On 3: Yep, that's what I was talking about.
I went from there, logged in by using NetId, tried to set up, but ended up finding a website where there is no info about how to set up...
BTW, I know I'm asking an extremely stupid question...but would you please tell me what's the meaning of "refund"? Is it just simply like putting all the money we got from financial aid into our bank account? If so, why it's not called "derect deposit"...

sent in my request for early track.

beast510 wrote:

audrey hepburn wrote:

beast510 wrote:For those who will attend RU-N this fall, I got three questions:

1) Have you received your room assignment, if you have already applied for on-campus housing, esp. unversity square.

2) Have you received a decision about Graduate Plus, if you have applied?

3) Did you receive an email saying that we can use our own account as a student account? If so, how to set up? I just can't find where to start.

Thanks in advance. See you next month!

1. No I didn't, but they said they should be out by the end of this month.

2. No

3. Don't understand the question- are you referring to the email about getting our refund check deposited directly into our bank account? If so, then I just clicked on the link in the email and went from there.

On 3: Yep, that's what I was talking about.
I went from there, logged in by using NetId, tried to set up, but ended up finding a website where there is no info about how to set up...
BTW, I know I'm asking an extremely stupid question...but would you please tell me what's the meaning of "refund"? Is it just simply like putting all the money we got from financial aid into our bank account? If so, why it's not called "derect deposit"...

It's not all the money from financial aid... it's your cost of living money. The school receives all your Stafford and Grad Plus money, takes out your tuition, fees, etc. and refunds the money you get to pay your rent and food, etc (assuming you aren't living on campus). FWIW, the online refund thing where you get it refunded directly to your account is new as of last semester and I don't know anyone who has used it successfully. I managed to navigate the process, which includes Rutgers putting small deposits in your bank and you verifying that amount on the school site, but I still ended up getting a paper check in the mail.

I was just offered a seat off the waitlist (packet arrived today in the mail)! Ironically, I was also offered admission at a competing choice (Wake), but I am very curious about the prospects of attending RU - Newark given the in-state tuition option and the fact that the school is right in the backyard of the NYC legal market. Can anyone offer a word of advice for my dilemna??

I have to make a decision within the next week for either school. PS - I would be paying sticker at both schools.

Stats:
UGPA: 2.9 (Electrical Engineering)
LSAT: 153

Softs:
9 yrs of WE (3yrs in Corporate Banking & 6 yrs in Engineering)
MBA (3.35 GPA)
URM (AAM)

So turns out my Dr. does not have my vaccination records and now I'm going to have to get these shots to fulfill that health form. Does anyone know if that stuff is REALLY required? I'm not living on campus. I was planning on quitting my job next week-but will prob have to change that if I need all these shots and stuff.

You guys turned in that health form?

@michguy - link people your choosing a law school Wake vs. Rutgers page. ive responded to you there.

king3780 wrote:

beast510 wrote:

audrey hepburn wrote:

beast510 wrote:For those who will attend RU-N this fall, I got three questions:

1) Have you received your room assignment, if you have already applied for on-campus housing, esp. unversity square.

2) Have you received a decision about Graduate Plus, if you have applied?

3) Did you receive an email saying that we can use our own account as a student account? If so, how to set up? I just can't find where to start.

Thanks in advance. See you next month!

1. No I didn't, but they said they should be out by the end of this month.

2. No

3. Don't understand the question- are you referring to the email about getting our refund check deposited directly into our bank account? If so, then I just clicked on the link in the email and went from there.

On 3: Yep, that's what I was talking about.
I went from there, logged in by using NetId, tried to set up, but ended up finding a website where there is no info about how to set up...
BTW, I know I'm asking an extremely stupid question...but would you please tell me what's the meaning of "refund"? Is it just simply like putting all the money we got from financial aid into our bank account? If so, why it's not called "derect deposit"...

It's not all the money from financial aid... it's your cost of living money. The school receives all your Stafford and Grad Plus money, takes out your tuition, fees, etc. and refunds the money you get to pay your rent and food, etc (assuming you aren't living on campus). FWIW, the online refund thing where you get it refunded directly to your account is new as of last semester and I don't know anyone who has used it successfully. I managed to navigate the process, which includes Rutgers putting small deposits in your bank and you verifying that amount on the school site, but I still ended up getting a paper check in the mail.

Thank you so much! That's really helpful!

lovaholic wrote:So turns out my Dr. does not have my vaccination records and now I'm going to have to get these shots to fulfill that health form. Does anyone know if that stuff is REALLY required? I'm not living on campus. I was planning on quitting my job next week-but will prob have to change that if I need all these shots and stuff.

You guys turned in that health form?

Same here... don't really have a medical record in U.S. yet...

The form said we can't even enroll if we don't have it, but it also said the deadline is July 30th, before which we have already started school... Guess it's just bureaucratically self-contradictory...

BTW, is there anyone who purchased a parking permit already? I can't login to purchase... sigh...

beast510 wrote:

lovaholic wrote:So turns out my Dr. does not have my vaccination records and now I'm going to have to get these shots to fulfill that health form. Does anyone know if that stuff is REALLY required? I'm not living on campus. I was planning on quitting my job next week-but will prob have to change that if I need all these shots and stuff.

You guys turned in that health form?

Same here... don't really have a medical record in U.S. yet...

The form said we can't even enroll if we don't have it, but it also said the deadline is July 30th, before which we have already started school... Guess it's just bureaucratically self-contradictory...

BTW, is there anyone who purchased a parking permit already? I can't login to purchase... sigh...

Try contacting your UG, you probably had those vaccines for them so they might be able to send their records for you. On an unrelated note, I am happy to be joining everyone in the fall!

So I did call my undergraduate school (which happens to be RU anyways-haha) and the DO have most of my records. So now I just got some blood work this morning and hopefully my body will show immunity and I will not need shots!

beast510 wrote:

lovaholic wrote:So turns out my Dr. does not have my vaccination records and now I'm going to have to get these shots to fulfill that health form. Does anyone know if that stuff is REALLY required? I'm not living on campus. I was planning on quitting my job next week-but will prob have to change that if I need all these shots and stuff.

You guys turned in that health form?

Same here... don't really have a medical record in U.S. yet...

The form said we can't even enroll if we don't have it, but it also said the deadline is July 30th, before which we have already started school... Guess it's just bureaucratically self-contradictory...

BTW, is there anyone who purchased a parking permit already? I can't login to purchase... sigh...

You can get your parking permit during orientation. I'm drawing a blank right now, but there are a couple things you need to do during orientation that are in the same building... I think one was getting an ID. There's something weird going on with the parking department. I'm going to be out of town for a month and won't be back until the weekend before school starts so I wanted to see if I could get my parking permit for next year in the next week or so... I've called the parking office a half dozen times and all I get is a voicemail.

Can any current Rutgers student provide any insight into the extent that gunners exist? I thought the school was relatively devoid of this subculture, but acouple of 0L's have begun to prep giving me the impressions that it may be more prevalent than I anticipated.

get it to x wrote:Can any current Rutgers student provide any insight into the extent that gunners exist? I thought the school was relatively devoid of this subculture, but acouple of 0L's have begun to prep giving me the impressions that it may be more prevalent than I anticipated.

Gunners are very minimal. My section had only a handful that anyone could call gunners. Three or four of them shut up in the spring after fall grades came out and they figured out they weren't so smart. There were a couple people who spoke a lot, but knew their stuff. There weren't any that were consistently insufferable.

I never understood why there was such intense competition in law school. After you finish and pass the bar, then it does not matter where you ranked, as does experience in the legal field.

NJcollegestudent wrote:I never understood why there was such intense competition in law school. After you finish and pass the bar, then it does not matter where you ranked, as does experience in the legal field.

False. It depends on where you work. Would a DA/PD office care what your grades were 5-10 years ago? Probably not. Some firms do care. I worked as a paralegal for an older attorney who said 20 years out of law school she was jumping from one mid-sized firm to another and they requested a copy of her transcripts.

get it to x wrote:Can any current Rutgers student provide any insight into the extent that gunners exist? I thought the school was relatively devoid of this subculture, but acouple of 0L's have begun to prep giving me the impressions that it may be more prevalent than I anticipated.

There are no gunners. However, since Professors will 'bump' grades for class participation, you will see some people speak up in class more often than others. Don't confuse people who talk with 'gunners'. There are no gunners.

king3780 wrote:

NJcollegestudent wrote:I never understood why there was such intense competition in law school. After you finish and pass the bar, then it does not matter where you ranked, as does experience in the legal field.

False. It depends on where you work. Would a DA/PD office care what your grades were 5-10 years ago? Probably not. Some firms do care. I worked as a paralegal for an older attorney who said 20 years out of law school she was jumping from one mid-sized firm to another and they requested a copy of her transcripts.

Well, sometimes they want to see your transcript only to prove something on your resume. If you put 'magna cum laude' on your resume, they would ask for a transcript just to verify you aren't a liar. I doubt anyone hiring you would take more than 5 seconds to look at your transcript, especially with 20 years in the business.

My personal opinion is that grades are useful for that 'first job'. After that, grades are useless. And I probably wouldn't apply to a firm that asked for my grades if I had 20 years as an attorney. I worked for 11 years before attending Rutgers. No one you work with will care about your grades.

phooey182 wrote:

king3780 wrote:

NJcollegestudent wrote:I never understood why there was such intense competition in law school. After you finish and pass the bar, then it does not matter where you ranked, as does experience in the legal field.

False. It depends on where you work. Would a DA/PD office care what your grades were 5-10 years ago? Probably not. Some firms do care. I worked as a paralegal for an older attorney who said 20 years out of law school she was jumping from one mid-sized firm to another and they requested a copy of her transcripts.

Well, sometimes they want to see your transcript only to prove something on your resume. If you put 'magna cum laude' on your resume, they would ask for a transcript just to verify you aren't a liar. I doubt anyone hiring you would take more than 5 seconds to look at your transcript, especially with 20 years in the business.

My personal opinion is that grades are useful for that 'first job'. After that, grades are useless. And I probably wouldn't apply to a firm that asked for my grades if I had 20 years as an attorney. I worked for 11 years before attending Rutgers. No one you work with will care about your grades.

Wait, so your argument is that because you worked in another field prior to law school and no one in that field cared about your grades after your first job, that no one will care about grades after your first job as an attorney?

Did everyone fill out the HESSA form?

I see there are some new admits--Congrats to those of you that made it off the wait list.

I'll try and throw a few answers out there if I can remember some of your questions.

First, let me start by saying I think the word "biglaw" is stupid, and misleading. Everyone uses it and has no idea what it really means. People confuse it with A large firm meaning 100+, or 250+ or 500+ person firm, mulit-office/multi-city firms, NLJ250, Vault 100 firms, firms paying the top salaray for their area aka "market" rate. Some firms fall under multiple categories. But the term can mean a lot of things and if you're not sure what the word means then you're going to have a hell of a time finding it.
Just to clear up a few misconceptions
-Market salary is different in every market...go figure! That means the same firm can pay one salary in one city, and a higher/lower salary in a different city based on the cost of living and potential bonuses that may be earned in that office. Also salary is greatly tied to billable hours. The more money firm pay in base salary and bonuses the more hours you will work. Most firms in the NYC metro (NJ, NY, PA, CT) pay market for their area, but they do not all pay the same amount. Obviously NYC firms tend to have a higher starting salary, but the cost of living in NYC is much higher than some places in NJ, PA and CT and so the salary differences can be somewhat negligible.
Many of the law firs with 75 people or more start about $90,000. If you think that isn't enough money to live on, pay bills, have a nice car, and take care of a family, while going on vacation and having rainy day money then I assume you've never had a salaried job. Trust me--that's plenty of money. Mathematically speaking it's not as much as $150,000, but I assure you it's a fantastic starting salary. But again, that is the low end of what can be considered a biglaw salary. Most likely that salary will also be at an office in a more suburban city, and a smaller office where you can live comfortably on that amount. I don't think there is a NYC firm paying that low. That being said you definitely have to weigh the pros/cons of making $150,000 v. $90,000. If you do opt for a job that pays on the high end of the salary structure don't expect to have ANY time to spend it. You will live, eat, breath, law firm. It's a lifestyle choice.

Speaking of jobs...the number of OCI employers has definitely decreased, and dropped off since 2007-2008. OCI is done in a couple of phases. The early phase of OCI which is the week before school has just under 50 employers attending this year. That's not an amazing number, but it's not that bad. Considering only about 180 students are eligible to interview (based on class year/graduation). Many students will not participate in early OCI based on personal preference and availability. That also does not include other types of employers like corporate industries, government, and public interest employers. Also since many firms are not hiring as many associates as they have in the past the low number is even more overstated. But, it's not the end of the world. OCI is just one way to get a job.

Gunners--they're irrelevant. Either you are one or you're not. Either you will think someone else in your class is or you won't. It will have little to no effect on your legal career except maybe to cause you slight annoyance on some days and slight comedy on others. Take it for what it's worth. You'll appreciate any so-called gunners when you're in a class where the professor is looking on someone to call on and you don't want to be called. Like Phooey said, don't confuse "class participation" with being a gunner. Law school is not the time to be so super cool that you can't raise your hand because you don't want people to think you're a gunner. Do what you need to do to understand what is going on--screw what people think about you. It's your grade. There is no such thing as 0L's prepping for law school. If an incoming student claims to be prepping they're probably just wasting time and wasting their summer. Nobody comes to law school prepared, I don't care what you did before the first day. Everyone starts learning on day 1.

Grades--they're only so important. The emphasis on grades is kind of odd. Rutgers is notorious for giving low grades. I'm sure many of you have seen the NYTimes article about a number of schools raising all of their students grades 1/3 of a grade just to be competitive. I highly doubt RU will follow suit. They don't really seem to give a crap that other school give a way B+ and A's like M&Ms. All I can say it get over it. The RU curve is low, and it's likely to bite you in the but at least once as a first year, probably more. Grades are only important for a while, granted this is the time when the grades are the most important because that's all the "legal" experience you have, and it's what you depend on to get a job. But, your grades will be what they are and 3-4 years down the road no body will give a crap what your law schools grades were. That's easier to say than it is to believe because freaking out about grades is what the first year is all about--unfortunately.

You MUST have all your medical records/immunizations up to date or you cannot start school.

@Michguy--Wake and RU are two completely different school. I think you're either a southern guy or a northeastern guy. There are not many similarities or things that could be comparable to argue one school over the other. I think it's just a matter of who you are and where you want to go to school and work (just my opinion). If you want to work in the South (south of D.C go to Wake)

GradPlus loans--you can apply for GPL pretty much anytime after you have completed your FAFSA which should've been completed months ago. It's not the school's responsibility to send you information on GradPlus loans. You can get that info on your own. Sooner rather than later is my only advice on that.

@champ33--it would be kind of pointless to give you employment prospects for this years graduating class, or even our summer employment this year, because that may not necessarily give you an accurate picture of your employment prospects. Legal hiring nationwide is low. Employers have decreased their interviews at RU and some have dropped off from OCI all together. This is not just at RU it's everywhere. Higher ranked schools tend to not feel that quite as much because they may have started off with a much, much, larger number of employers, but they're still feeling it. All regional law school students can probably tell you horror stories of 2Ls not getting internships, or getting an internship and not being offered a position, or even 3Ls that have no employment prospects right now as they study for the bar. But so goes the legal market and legal hiring. Some of that is due to personal preferences, where people applied, and a number of other factors that affect statistics. The environment at RU seems to be pretty easy. Nobody seems to be completely freaked out, but people are definitely networking and using all angles to get a job. I will say that the difference between RU and other schools in the region (minus NYU) are in similar boats with hiring. So if you're wondering if schools like Seton,NY Law, Brooklyn, Cardozo, etc., are somehow doing better than RU because of their rank I can assure you they are not.

The median salaries are not really all that far off. Majority of students that graduate do end up at law firms at RU the next highest number is probably clerkships (but that's just my guess I don't know what the statistics show). The salaries at law firms are relatively high. If Rutgers graduates approx 180 students and 50-70% of them accept jobs in law firms chances are the median salary is going to be in the low-mid 6-figure range ($110-150k ish) about a 1/4 of the students will accept clerkships (although it's probably higher, more around 1/3) and they will have lower starting salaries, most likely before moving on to higher paying positions, some students will may make higher salaries, and some will be unemployed for various reasons. I can understand you not wanting to be mislead, but statistics are not really meant to mislead, but they are designed to give you a snapshot. You just have to understand what the numbers represent and try not to read too much into them. Don't really stress yourself out about hiring statistics because it will neither do you any good in the first year, nor will it do you any good when you go to get your first internship. The statistics really have nothing to do with your ability to land a job. That will come from factors that have yet to be established. So just go to the school where you feel the best and feel you will do the best, and in an area where you don't mind attending for 3 years, and hopefully in a region where you would like to work for a few years after graduation. hope this helps