Seton Hall

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keg411
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:11 pm

WTF :lol:.

You can tell Chris Christie that "random person on a message board" also thinks he's an incompetent governor and said person will be working to make sure he's not re-elected due to his fucking over the NJ public school system. He makes me miss Jon Corzine (and I didn't like Corzine either).

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:38 pm

keg411 wrote:
Fef619 wrote:
amclane wrote:
keg411 wrote:Finally got in via snail mail. Crappy $ award. Will send withdrawal form on Monday. Plus, I hate SHU (only applied in case I got rejected everywhere) and now I can say I purposely chose not to go there :D.


your smugness is greatly appreciated, thank you.



Ya, he's a doosh. Probably got denied from SHU.


Um, I got accepted. See above. Don't like the school and have my reasons. I applied as a super-safety.


Super-safety that took long enough to decide on you and give you a "crappy $ award". I have purposefully restrained from giving you a hard time (considerate it kind) because it is just too easy and whenever I have in the past, I know you're borderline breaking down on the other end of this thread. However Keg, not only do you consistently use irrational thought on TLS, but you persist to be an unpleasant individual with opinions on things way above your pay grade. If I were you, I would stick to shopping for pink Yankees gear and reading People magazine, because that's where your type of superficial judgment belongs.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:45 pm

Fef619 wrote:
amclane wrote:
keg411 wrote:Finally got in via snail mail. Crappy $ award. Will send withdrawal form on Monday. Plus, I hate SHU (only applied in case I got rejected everywhere) and now I can say I purposely chose not to go there :D.


your smugness is greatly appreciated, thank you.



Ya, he's a doosh. Probably got denied from SHU.


He's a She, allegedly.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:56 pm

keg411 wrote:WTF :lol:.

You can tell Chris Christie that "random person on a message board" also thinks he's an incompetent governor and said person will be working to make sure he's not re-elected due to his fucking over the NJ public school system. He makes me miss Jon Corzine (and I didn't like Corzine either).


Case in point. Chris Christie incompetent? Are you mad? You may dislike fiscal responsibility, government efficiency, limited government, promoting small business, and rare principled politics, but incompetent Chris Christie is not. I don't know where your political views are, but if you dislike Corzine and then Christie makes you miss Corzine, then wtf are you voting on? personality? looks? Are you even thinking policy? Do you know government? Do you know anything? I'd like to hear what you think about Teacher's Unions and what statistics you have on child performance in public schools over the last 30 years in NJ. Then compare that to $$ spent, property tax increases, sales tax increases, people voting with their feet, etc. Keg, I am a "random person on a message board" but as a fellow American and Jersian, please fulfill your civic responsibility more and learn about this shit before you speak. Thanks.

PS. Olberman, Maddow, and Radar.com do not constitute a credible source.

Fef619
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Fef619 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:02 pm

bernie shmegma wrote:
keg411 wrote:WTF :lol:.

You can tell Chris Christie that "random person on a message board" also thinks he's an incompetent governor and said person will be working to make sure he's not re-elected due to his fucking over the NJ public school system. He makes me miss Jon Corzine (and I didn't like Corzine either).


Case in point. Chris Christie incompetent? Are you mad? You may dislike fiscal responsibility, government efficiency, limited government, promoting small business, and rare principled politics, but incompetent Chris Christie is not. I don't know where your political views are, but if you dislike Corzine and then Christie makes you miss Corzine, then wtf are you voting on? personality? looks? Are you even thinking policy? Do you know government? Do you know anything? I'd like to hear what you think about Teacher's Unions and what statistics you have on child performance in public schools over the last 30 years in NJ. Then compare that to $$ spent, property tax increases, sales tax increases, people voting with their feet, etc. Keg, I am a "random person on a message board" but as a fellow American and Jersian, please fulfill your civic responsibility more and learn about this shit before you speak. Thanks.

PS. Olberman, Maddow, and Radar.com do not constitute a credible source.



^lol agreed.

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:23 pm

A few things:
1) Why crappy $ award and late acceptance? I applied with my original 162/sub3 GPA from years ago (reason for applying there out of fear I would be accepted nowhere) and was planning on re-taking in February. I asked SHU (and several other schools) if they would consider looking at my application prior to my re-take and make a decision. SHU told me that they would NOT do it under any circumstances and if they wanted my application to be reviewed, I would have to cancel my Feb. LSAT. I had no intention to cancel my LSAT for SHU and was accepted to 3 other schools during the time prior to my re-take.

2) I re-took and got a 165. SHU reviewed my app and gave me 15k/year. When you charge over $40k/year for tuition it isn't worth it. I got similar scholarships from similar schools in other markets (in fact, the same offer to a T) and turned down all of those. I am going to the school that cheapest option where I want to work.

3) I'm a Democrat. I didn't like Corzine because he was disappointing as governor and made a fool out of himself more than once. I'm outraged at what Christie has done in cutting public school budgets; especially in inner cities. Many of the local public schools are cutting programs left and right and it saddens me greatly. The reason many people live in New Jersey in the first place is because of the strong public school system and I don't like seeing what Christie has already done. I'm sorry if my political leanings offend the Republicans in this thread, but those are my own opinions and they have nothing to do with being "superficial" or reading People Magazine and shopping. I'm a Liberal and I'm not going to apologize for it. I also don't care if any of you are conservative/Republicans either. These are all my own opinions. I'm not forcing them on anyone else.

4) I do have a friend at SHU who is a 3L. She has a local court internship after graduation (county court; not federal, not state, not a desirable county). She was not in the top of her class, but is happy she has something. I have another friend who graduated in '07, had 2 federal clerkships and has a job at a V10 (he graduated summa and was likely in the top 5 people in the class). SHU isn't a death sentence if you do well. However, I DO put some stock into the "where there's smoke, there's fire" with SHU's reputation which is why I have turned against it and why I'm uncomfortable with the school to begin with.

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inSouthAmerica
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby inSouthAmerica » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:30 pm

@bernie shmegma - christie is a douchebag, i'm fine with trying to balance a budget, but teachers aren't the enemy. you want smart people to go into teaching. why? everyone wants good teachers and strong public schools. well if you want that you need to have pay structures that allow teachers to be able to live in the communities they teach in. nobody goes into teaching to get rich, they just want to lead something close to middle class lives. when you take a teacher who has been working for 35 years and restructure their pension plans that they have been counting on for years, you're being a douchebag.

its not the teacher's fault that the state raids the pension fund everytime they cant raise the money to fill a deficit. are there bad teachers, sure. are they protected by the union, sure. are union's as a whole bad for america, no not really. i don't want to go back to the 1890s. teachers generally are hard working, educated people that dedicate their lives to public service. blaming the teachers for poor academic performance may seem logical, and sure a restructuring of the system based on teacher performance may be a credited alternative to continuing the same thing over again and not expecting low student performance, but that should not negate the contracts that were already negotiated for AND agreed upon. i am fine with changing the rules of the game for entering teachers (not really i think teaching should be a highly rewarded/regarded profession that should be compensated accordingly), but the current teachers have based their lives and retirements around what are now or will soon be broken promises.

christie may have the money to send his sons to delbarton and his daughters to morristown catholic but that is not what the majority of the state can either afford or in my case would want to do (though i expect people on the Seton Hall thread see little/no problem with religion and education going together).

everyone who is on TLS knows that they didn't get to the stage of life where they get to choose which law school to go to based on any teacher; they get there or they don't because either their parents read to them as a child or they didn't. blaming the teachers for poor performance is a typical american deflection mechanism of blaming anyone but ourselves for the problem we are currently in. we are the parents, we arent the teachers, it must be the teachers fault. i agree that the money spent is ridiculous, that property taxes in new jersey are ridiculous, but i say hire less cops and cut their salaries. i say make the parks a little less beautiful. i say don't build a new stadium for the giants. hard choices, yes certainly, but there's almost nothing i wouldn't sacrifice in favor of educating the next generation of new jersey's citizens. you need to pay teachers or they won't teach; they will do something else.

in short i'm for fiscal responsibility as much as the next guy. what i take issue with is that where christie sees necessary cuts is the one place i see cuts as intolerable. its a question of priorities. i know for a fact my beautiful hometown does not need the police force, the fire department, the five million parks, the constantly repaved roads, or the community centers to be nearly as nice as they are. what we do need are our schools and our one library. i also take issue with someone who refuses a government service (public schooling) for his own family and therefore acts like everyone else should do the same. if it was up to me, delbarton would have burned down in the 50s.

ultimately an educated workforce is as good for the private sector as anything. and ultimately a healthy private sector made up of tax payers should allow for a government that provides services. both the liberal and conservative view should in my opinion hinge upon our common american necessity of strong public education.

to the kid interning for christie this summer, good luck, suit up, see you on the battlefield in later years.

p.s. the public educational system is the primary difference between the home values in north jersey. many people in strong school districts have a lot more to lose in property values than they have to lose in taxes.

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby bernie shmegma » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:54 pm

inSouthAmerica wrote:@bernie shmegma - christie is a douchebag, i'm fine with trying to balance a budget, but teachers aren't the enemy. you want smart people to go into teaching. why? everyone wants good teachers and strong public schools. well if you want that you need to have pay structures that allow teachers to be able to live in the communities they teach in. nobody goes into teaching to get rich, they just want to lead something close to middle class lives. when you take a teacher who has been working for 35 years and restructure their pension plans that they have been counting on for years, you're being a douchebag.

its not the teacher's fault that the state raids the pension fund everytime they cant raise the money to fill a deficit. are there bad teachers, sure. are they protected by the union, sure. are union's as a whole bad for america, no not really. i don't want to go back to the 1890s. teachers generally are hard working, educated people that dedicate their lives to public service. blaming the teachers for poor academic performance may seem logical, and sure a restructuring of the system based on teacher performance may be a credited alternative to continuing the same thing over again and not expecting low student performance, but that should not negate the contracts that were already negotiated for AND agreed upon. i am fine with changing the rules of the game for entering teachers (not really i think teaching should be a highly rewarded/regarded profession that should be compensated accordingly), but the current teachers have based their lives and retirements around what are now or will soon be broken promises.

christie may have the money to send his sons to delbarton and his daughters to morristown catholic but that is not what the majority of the state can either afford or in my case would want to do (though i expect people on the Seton Hall thread see little/no problem with religion and education going together).

everyone who is on TLS knows that they didn't get to the stage of life where they get to choose which law school to go to based on any teacher; they get there or they don't because either their parents read to them as a child or they didn't. blaming the teachers for poor performance is a typical american deflection mechanism of blaming anyone but ourselves for the problem we are currently in. we are the parents, we arent the teachers, it must be the teachers fault. i agree that the money spent is ridiculous, that property taxes in new jersey are ridiculous, but i say hire less cops and cut their salaries. i say make the parks a little less beautiful. i say don't build a new stadium for the giants. hard choices, yes certainly, but there's almost nothing i wouldn't sacrifice in favor of educating the next generation of new jersey's citizens. you need to pay teachers or they won't teach; they will do something else.

in short i'm for fiscal responsibility as much as the next guy. what i take issue with is that where christie sees necessary cuts is the one place i see cuts as intolerable. its a question of priorities. i know for a fact my beautiful hometown does not need the police force, the fire department, the five million parks, the constantly repaved roads, or the community centers to be nearly as nice as they are. what we do need are our schools and our one library. i also take issue with someone who refuses a government service (public schooling) for his own family and therefore acting like everyone else should do the same. if it was up to me, delbarton would have burned down in the 50s.

ultimately an educated workforce is as good for the private sector as anything. and ultimately a healthy private sector made up of tax payers should allow for a government that provides services. both the liberal and conservative view should in my opinion hinge upon our common american necessity of strong public education.

p.s. the public educational system is the primary difference between the home values in north jersey. many people in strong school districts have a lot more to lose in property values than they have to lose in taxes.


To address the Post script; its a chicken or the egg scenario. The public schools are strong because of high property value, and moreso high property taxes. Education is local and should stay that way. Delbarton has nothing to do with the public education. In fact, people who send their kids to Delbendover pay shitloads in property taxes for their own towns public shools + poorer communities + sending their own kids to Delbendover. So don't rag on them. They're the reason teachers even have anything to take away in the first place. You hit the nail on the head as far as the parents issue goes! Which means education is NOT A RIGHT. Is it something we should provide YES. Is it good economics. YES. but is it a right? NO. I am not for everyone providing their own education for their children at all. However, when times call for it, there needs to be restructuring. If some teacher in another town is looking at earning his/her salary or having to wait until the other people who provide it can actually provide it, then so be it.

Too much is just spend on schools overall. More money does not mean better performance at all. I agree with the fundamentals that teacher's are important, so is education for our children, but you can't deploy the "Oh, Christie is going over the one thing we should be protecting blah blah" argument if the actual policies are broke. Corrupt. Union run. 3 years and you get tenure? That''s crazy! We have Teach for America and KIP schools performing better than regular public schools and pedagogical degrees. Christie is not a douchebag. In fact, he knows what he's doing. This will in turn save the state from insolvency AND generate more REVENUE. Public schools will eventually improve because of these actions. Right now, the providers are LEAVING the state and counties like Essex, who rely on other municipalities. They are starting over, they are actually hurting in the upper middle class. Granted they have the skills and connections to build up again, but building is no guarantee, and they have to get their before restoring our little habit of entitled egalitarian ways again. How the hell will Newark function, if Caldwell or essex fells or Livingston can't continue to pay for themselves, let alone their employees, forget about Newark teachers and students etc? Education has been wayyy tooo centralized and needs to get back to the local level. The state should ensure the less fortunate areas in certain counties are taken care of by the more well-off and that is exactly what Christie is ensuring. Right now, its unsustainable and he has the balls to step up to the shitty arguments progressives present. If people can't see that for the long hall and they are too accustomed to 3 year tenure, full pension benefit, teacher's union mentality, then continue to flush the state and country down the toilet next election. BUT Guess what. JERSEY IS GOING RED because people aren't morons, well at least with regard to that. Polls show A VAST majority of NJ supports all of this BTW.

Unions are generally TERRIBLE for America. They served a function to protect employee safety an rights and have gone WAYYY beyond the scope of their proper role in society and politics in general. How can you be for fiscal responsibility and for Unions at the same time? You can't because they have become antecedent to each other. They are a cancer. Christie is the chemo. It sucks while we're doing it. It may eat at our hearts. But its necessary. Every other thing you mentioned to cut is ESSENTIAL to the less well off communities. Kids won't make it to school if the parents from Essex who send their kids to Mo Beard are not paying for Police forces in Irvington. Are you kidding? Go ahead, cut the police and fire departments funds controlled by the state and not the local level and see what happens. POINT IS: When the providers can't provide anymore, what happens? Christie is relieving the pressure, so that productivity builds and then you can elect another guy to destroy the state all over again in the name of equality.

It's not a matter of anyone being "the enemy" Policy doesn't work like that. Politics do.

Listen, I am not saying I can't see where you come from. Nor do I disagree with everything you are saying. We will have a lot of time to share resources and talk about this over beers. I would love to do so with you. I personally feel these conversations are useful and important. However, what I am willing to present here on TLS is not an ideological discussion and worth all this time and energy, which a lot of this requires. There is A LOT to cover on this topic and I'm sure we have plenty to discuss and learn from each other. Lets pick up where we left off in person sometime after we get to know each other. In the meantime, Christie is not a Douche for what he is doing haha. That's comical, but I think you will find the evidence is strong to suggest he is doing the right thing. That is what we will get to in due time along with a more elaborate and collegial way of addressing Unions, teachers, education policy, etc. As For now, that was my TLS ramble, hope you enjoyed it.

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inSouthAmerica
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby inSouthAmerica » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:05 pm

i did enjoy it. and i agreee these conversations are very important. to be continued then!

amclane
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby amclane » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:38 pm

so, where are people going shu thinking about living :-)

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badpixie
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby badpixie » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:43 pm

inSouthAmerica wrote:i did enjoy it. and i agreee these conversations are very important. to be continued then!

I love to see debate on these boards done in an intelligent and respectful manner. :)

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eagles86
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby eagles86 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:11 pm

I think he was saying cut the police forces in nice, wealthy suburban town, not the war zones of Camden, Newark and Trenton. NJ is becoming a red state? Watch Obama win by 20 points in 2012 once the economy is better

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby bernie shmegma » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:46 am

eagles86 wrote:I think he was saying cut the police forces in nice, wealthy suburban town, not the war zones of Camden, Newark and Trenton. NJ is becoming a red state? Watch Obama win by 20 points in 2012 once the economy is better


The wealthy towns barely use state funds. They are tiny municipalities that support themselves for the most part. Why would the wealthy towns pay taxes to the state for primarily local public services? The amount the wealthy areas might receive from the state for pension benefits or urban qualifications that poor areas don't is negligible. Its the urban areas that rely on state programs and funds. To cut state funding in common programs or appropriations for those wealthy areas (for whatever they do receive), but not to what the "war zones" receive, when those funds primarily benefit those "war zones" in the first place, is ass backwards. InSouthAmerica could not have gone from talking about leaving education alone and using police and fire departments as a replacement for Christie to cut, only to mean for wealthy areas. Why wouldn't he just say the same ass backwards thing you think he meant only instead for education policy? After all, he made clear how he felt about education when it came to other dynamics. The entire problem is about NJ policy being unsustainable, people voting with their feet & leaving NJ, ppl leaving counties with high taxes that Camden or Newark rely on and you think "he was saying cut the police forces in nice, wealthy suburban town"? I doubt it and if so, it makes no sense.

In response to your question "NJ is becoming a red state?" First of all , watch the redistricting in NJ. Second of all, I'm not necessarily talking about the presidential election of 2012. There are red states that voted for Obama in 2008, that doesn't mean they're blue now. I'm sorry if I refuse to only think in terms of the presidency. Nevertheless, I happen to disagree with your predictions as of right now. If you are right, it will be completely coincidental and contingent upon great change in course of events, circumstance & momentum by then. Granted, this very well could happen. I'm sure you're relying on it. And, if/when the economy recovers people will know it had nothing to do with the President's policies nor will the president's policies lead people to believe the worst isn't still ahead.

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eagles86
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby eagles86 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:02 am

NJ actually has non- partisan redistricting so I dont expect it to change much aside from the loss of one house seat

publiusjr
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby publiusjr » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:12 am

is there ever a liberal that can use facts or is everything emotion and name calling.
NJ was a place where people move because they couldnt afford ny. Now nj is the most taxed state if you combine all taxes and is losing people and businesses at record numbers. It is also a leader among states who's students graduate college and move away.

Lets stop with the teachers. If they paid 1.5% of there salary in benefits it would match the union dues they pay which go to political campaigns for democrats. Secondly, Christie is trying to force the older, ineffective teaches to retire so there is new blood. The city of Newark gets an average of $22k per student, yet they can't graduate 50%. Why? the money isnt going towards edcuation. People like Sharpe James rob it, hire their family memebers for made up position at six figure salaries. Look at how stupid the government is. Teenage girls are getting pregnant so instead of condoms and other birth control being given out at the school. They build a daycare center. Or students cant speak english, so they put them in classes where they are taught in spanish. How do these kids makes success? Answer, they dont because liberals want them to be poor and dependent on government so they keep voting for them. In NJ, alot of schools mandate all studetns take spanish. Why? It is a third world language. The most productive and power country in South America is Brazil and they speak Protugese. Why not teach them Japanese, Mandarin, etc.

It is not only teachers, you have a ton fo government works robbing the system. I have had to deal with the department of labor with my business. they have some of the most incompetent and quite frankly stupid people you could imagine.
the eonomy will not get better because Obama is not doesnt understand the free market. Second, he helped create the econmic collapose when he sued the government with acorn and Clinton and Andrew Cuomo at the end of 1998 forced banks to start meeting racial and economic quotas. There was a time when you need to put 20% dowen to buy a house. they were forcing banks to lend to people who had no jobs and give them 106% financing. As a matter, you can look up the video on youtube of the democrats calling banks and regulators racist and saying Freddie Mac and Fannie mae were being run great. Acorn use to tell people buy a house and dont make any paymetns. it will take about 2 months to foreclose so you could live rent free. BTW, I am not fan of W Bush either.

publiusjr
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby publiusjr » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:16 am

something was wrong with my last paragraph. everything was flashing and moving when I typed it. Excuse the grammer and it was 24 months not 2.

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inSouthAmerica
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby inSouthAmerica » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:40 pm

i'm not a liberal (but if i was i wouldn't apologize for it either), i'm a left leaning registered republican. you would probably call me a RINO; i would call me the type of person republicans need to win back if they are going to recover politically.

if i came off emotional in my post its because you read more into it than what i wrote.
plenty of name calling on both sides of the aisle.
saying "is there ever a liberal that can use facts" with the implied answer of "of course not you idiots!" is essentially name calling. i fail to see your point.

even so.

1) pushing out older teachers makes education more inefficient than it already is, and i certainly didn't fail to acknowledge inefficiency. older teachers are not the "older, ineffective" teachers. they are certainly more costly, and no i'm not going to find the phd dissertation that proves this (those damn liberals never have any facts! yes i'm mocking you), but you get a lot more out of your older experienced teachers than you'd get out of all but the most gifted 24-28 year olds.
2) your assertion that the teaching profession is dominated by nepotism is certainly not credited outside of maybe a handful of anecdotes.
3) maybe building day care centers in newark is a waste of money, but its comical that you blame wasteful liberal spending here when your solution, handing out condoms and other birth control measures... i don't even have to finish this thought you know where i'm going with it.
4) i'll ignore the racism that is the statement "spanish is a third world language". it should be noted that i speak spanish fluently (as a second language) and live in a 3rd world country. if you think the average high schooler in new jersey or anywhere else has the patience to learn japanese or mandarin, when 99% of them can't learn spanish, german, italian, or latin, then you have more faith in teachers than you profess to have. swedish is a decidedly first world language, but i know for a fact i don't have the faculty to learn it, and its decidedly useless. teaching spanish is necessary because plenty of people in plenty of industries in america will employ and or work with people that speak spanish better than they speak english. if you fail to see how teaching spanish to non-speakers helps to grease the american productivity system when by far our largest minority in the unskilled workforce is spanish speaking, then i probably can't have an intelligent conversation with you.
5) ESL is a separate issue, surely it benefits us all if people could just "fucking learn english", but i'd offer up the alternative that if we don't have ESL, i'd gander that the dropouts, the crime, probable welfare, probability of teenage parentage etc, and the complete waste of that warm body to american society costs us far more than just teaching the kid in spanish until he can float in english classes. i don't really have a horse in this race, but does it really hurt to use a cost benefit analysis that favors a longer term view point than only acknowledging the added cost of ESL to the schools.
6) i didn't mention the role of government in my previous post so its off the scope of where i was. i'll respond anyway. certainly lending to people that don't qualify for loans contributed to the economic collapse, but lets not forget that that couldn't have happened without those bankers being sure that they could later sell those mortgages to wallstreet who would cut them up and sell them to people betting on and against them. they in turn, knew they could do that because they were getting triple A ratings from the ratings companies and eventually who ends up investing in them, right, pension funds. i don't want to imagine where we'd be right now if bush had privatized social security in 2004. so, theres a lot of blame to go around.

blaming obama for the financial collapse is demagoguery. mentioning acorn like it does anything more than register low income people to vote, which you can certainly have an opinion on, makes me question where you get your sourcing in life, heard that ran on FoxNews for like 60 days straight. however, i'm not in a tv watching position, so i get my news from the internets.

certainly, people with no jobs and no assets shouldn't qualify for 300k mortgages, nobody is disputing that. however, what you're claiming is that its a government conspiracy that allowed for these loans to happen, when reality is that it was the free-market playing with fire, with a mixture of colatoralized debt obligations and derivatives which i certainly don't understand and i'd wager you don't either. that was their purpose, to not be understood. without this, nobody could have given the no job no asset guy a loan, no matter what the government wanted for minority homeownership. the government can't legislate companies to provide a service that is unprofitable, the companies simply won't do it. and you can say, but the government owns fannie mae and freddie mac, yeah, right, NOW THEY DO, but they didn't when this happened.

7) nobody's a w bush fan anymore, man thats just not what the cool kids are doing.
8)

don't assume things about people, and read over your shit before you post it next time.
Last edited by inSouthAmerica on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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inSouthAmerica
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby inSouthAmerica » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:47 pm

eagles86 wrote:I think he was saying cut the police forces in nice, wealthy suburban town, not the war zones of Camden, Newark and Trenton. NJ is becoming a red state? Watch Obama win by 20 points in 2012 once the economy is better


that is what i was saying. bernie, if we in the wealthy towns are net outpayers for towns like Irvington, thats going to exist either way. that doesnt justify a new cop car fleet every 3 or 4 years for ourselves, 3 dedicated cops for the school system, un-or-under-utilized town swat teams, etc. if we look at our net outflow to poor communities as a fixed cost state mandated and beyond our control, we can still bring total cost down, by reducing our own services, and one that i see as obvious is the police forces in towns like mendham, millburn, randolph, madison, etc. i'd make that cut in favor of hiring more AP teachers every single day of the week.

lastly, i live in a place where education is truly not a right. where all the educational resources are divided up among the wealthy. i know for a fact that it stagnates a nations growth and is bad for a country. educations my big button issue for a reason. i see its effects everyday in an entirely different way than is possible from your chairs in america. don't get me wrong, i'm not criticizing any of you for that. i'm just trying to share one lesson i've taken away from living abroad for 2+ years. public education is the dividing line between the first world and the "third world" which is all too often not at all "developing"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02037.html

publiusjr
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby publiusjr » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:57 pm

Firstly, I can see you lean left because you are arrogant but lack facts. You are definately one of those kids that thinks he is some intellect and can't do well outside a classroom atmosphere. Most likely, need to sit in a classroom with a bunch of people who havent accomplished anything in the real world but think they know everything. Talking points. I believe, I feel, etc. instead of I know and the facts are. I answered to you briefly below and if you want I can provide stats but frankly I don't want to waste my time. In 4 years, NJ will be in better shape than it was when scumbag, GOLDMAN SACHS, crook Corzine left office. NY is about to elect Andrew Cuomo who is more reponsible for the economic crash then anyone. He was a human wrecking ball at hud.


1) pushing out older teachers makes education more inefficient than it already is, and i certainly didn't fail to acknowledge inefficiency. older teachers are not the "older, ineffective" teachers. they are certainly more costly, and no i'm not going to find the phd dissertation that proves this (those damn liberals never have any facts! yes i'm mocking you), but you get a lot more out of your older experienced teachers than you'd get out of all but the most gifted 24-28 year olds.

(You have alot of older teachers who dont have the energy nor care in their profession anymore still collecting a check while younger more hungry teachers cant find work. Not all older teachers but if they teachers are so great. Why is NJ education so bad?)

2) your assertion that the teaching profession is dominated by nepotism is certainly not credited outside of maybe a handful of anecdotes.

(No assertion on nepotism. Nice try.)

3) maybe building day care centers in newark is a waste of money, but its comical that you blame wasteful liberal spending here when your solution, handing out condoms and other birth control measures... i don't even have to finish this thought you know where i'm going with it.

(What is more cheap? Building and funding a daycare center then having to pay when a child is being raised. All factual data shows that children who are from two parents households no matter their race perform equally. Of course all families wont stay together but majority of inmates in prison are from teenage mothers and illegtimate. That is a fact you can look up. If a girl having 2 or 3 kids as a teenager with a few different guys a way to live? And you are right. I support giving out birth control because some kids will have sex regardless and I would rather pay for condons than to raise a kid who will be a burden on society.)

4) i'll ignore the racism that is the statement "spanish is a third world language". it should be noted that i speak spanish fluently (as a second language) and live in a 3rd world country. if you think the average high schooler in new jersey or anywhere else has the patience to learn japanese or mandarin, when 99% of them can't learn spanish, german, italian, or latin, then you have more faith in teachers than you profess to have. swedish is a decidedly first world language, but i know for a fact i don't have the faculty to learn it, and its decidedly useless. teaching spanish is necessary because plenty of people in plenty of industries in america will employ and or work with people that speak spanish better than they speak english. if you fail to see how teaching spanish to non-speakers helps to grease the american productivity system when by far our largest minority in the unskilled workforce is spanish speaking, then i probably can't have an intelligent conversation with you.

(If you are gonna play the raise card you will go no where in life. I have good friends of all races but obviously that is a crutch you will use in your life. I am no racist. I speak Italian and I would be against Italian being mandated in schools. It is a third world langauge. Brazil is the most powerful country in south america and they speak portguese. Spain isnt that much of a trade partner for us. Personally, I believe all kids who speak spanish as a first language should be taught english so they can succeed and have more opportunity. If you never learn english, how do you succeed? Also, I am actually for more legalized immigration. I actually believe we have a slave trade in this country with central americans and I dont like it because it is immoral.)


5) ESL is a separate issue, surely it benefits us all if people could just "fucking learn english", but i'd offer up the alternative that if we don't have ESL, i'd gander that the dropouts, the crime, probable welfare, probability of teenage parentage etc, and the complete waste of that warm body to american society costs us far more than just teaching the kid in spanish until he can float in english classes. i don't really have a horse in this race, but does it really hurt to use a cost benefit analysis that favors a longer term view point than only acknowledging the added cost of ESL to the schools.

(see above.)

6) i didn't mention the role of government in my previous post so its off the scope of where i was. i'll respond anyway. certainly lending to people that don't qualify for loans contributed to the economic collapse, but lets not forget that that couldn't have happened without those bankers being sure that they could later sell those mortgages to wallstreet who would cut them up and sell them to people betting on and against them. they in turn, knew they could do that because they were getting triple A ratings from the ratings companies and eventually who ends up investing in them, right, pension funds. i don't want to imagine where we'd be right now if bush had privatized social security in 2004. so, theres a lot of blame to go around.

(I agree some insitutions did improper stuff and they should go to jail and not be bailed out. Let them fail. Also,when you have the people at the sex surfing porn all day. Your not solving anything.)

blaming obama for the financial collapse is demagoguery. mentioning acorn like it does anything more than register low income people to vote, which you can certainly have an opinion on, makes me question where you get your sourcing in life, heard that ran on FoxNews for like 60 days straight. however, i'm not in a tv watching position, so i get my news from the internets.

(Not blaming just Obama. HE did sue Citibank. The Democrats have very bloody hands in this. If you think Acorn was just doing that you are naive. Stop with the talking points. Acorn is a thug organization that registares dead people. Robs government money, threatens people. Did you ever hear that they use to send people to threaten the wives of banks executives of certain banks because they didnt lend to enough low income people. )

certainly, people with no jobs and no assets shouldn't qualify for 300k mortgages, nobody is disputing that. however, what you're claiming is that its a government conspiracy that allowed for these loans to happen, when reality is that it was the free-market playing with fire, with a mixture of colatoralized debt obligations and derivatives which i certainly don't understand and i'd wager you don't either. that was their purpose, to not be understood. without this, nobody could have given the no job no asset guy a loan, no matter what the government wanted for minority homeownership. the government can't legislate companies to provide a service that is unprofitable, the companies simply won't do it. and you can say, but the government owns fannie mae and freddie mac, yeah, right, NOW THEY DO, but they didn't when this happened.

here in their own words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

Look up, the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000

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eagles86
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby eagles86 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:20 pm

Looks like someone spends too much time listening to great intellectuals like Rush lol

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby bernie shmegma » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:55 am

eagles86 wrote:NJ actually has non- partisan redistricting so I dont expect it to change much aside from the loss of one house seat


Losing one house seat for the dems and a serious potential for the GOP to pick another depending on how things play out makes a current 8-4 split a big difference from a 7-5 split. That my friend, would start turning a clearer shade of blue to purple. I restate my claim: keep an eye on redistricting.

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inSouthAmerica
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby inSouthAmerica » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:20 am

publiusjr wrote: [on government] People like Sharpe James rob it, hire their family memebers for made up position at six figure salaries.


your assertion that you didn't claim nepotism is... false.

your assertion that i am arrogant is perhaps true, but vicious, vicious name calling.
your assertion that if i were to be arrogant then that would be a characteristic of liberal people, when i've already told you that i am not a liberal and that i am left of the republican party but right of center, is bombastic especially in light of your subsequent arrogance.

we agree, they shouldn't teach italian. not because its a third world language but because it doesn't help us be more productive as a society, which was my argument for spanish... that you did not address.

i'm not the one with the talking points on acorn, you are. who cares what acorn does, at its most it was getting .000000000002% of public money (yes i made that figue up for dramatic effect). screaming about it and recirculating youtube videos, doesn't make it more important. i don't know what you have against dead people, but i say let 'em vote.

you have no facts to back up your claim that "hungry" teachers are more productive. you may "feel" and "believe that", and i may disagree strongly. attacking me for having no facts when you have none of your own whilst calling me arrogant for it is a highly intellectual stylization that i admire in you.

i concede bernie shmegma's point that the average teacher is not as productive as a Teach for America person, but would like to remind him that Teach for America admits roughly 15% of its applicants, who are mostly 3.8 students from prestigious institutions. its a lot harder to get into Teach for America than it is to get into Seton Hall Law or Rutgers Newark Law for the matter. trying to staff America's schools with Teach for America people is impossible. its akin to running a country with peace corps volunteers.

i am not a minority. i am not trying to get anywhere by "playing the raise card". asserting that some languages are "third world languages" and that they should stay there where they belong by not teaching them is, in my opinion, racist. you can fail to see that, thats fine, but don't confuse me for caring that much about the race issue or using it as significant part of my world view.

nobody has said anything against the 2 parent household. what you have done however is come out against the one parent household. personally, as a social libertarian, i don't really care how many kids a teenage mother has if its not costing me anything. i agree, lets flood the inner city schools with condoms it would be way better for everyone, most importantly inner city teenage women, than building day care centers.

as for letting the entire financial system fail. that would certainly have provided a great precedent for moral hazard against future bets these banks peers will be taking (if they survived... and they wouldnt' have), but i'm almost certain that i don't want to continue living in adobe houses past july, and i'm absolutely certain you wouldn't want to live in one either.

i'm not sure what your point about the legislation you've cited is. do i think savings banks and investment banking should be separate, sure. did the financial services modernization act of 1999 pass the house with a vote of 241-132 and 58 republican votes, yes. did the commodity futures modernization vote pass the house with a vote of 377-4, yes. is hindsight 20/20, yes, i would have loved to see hear your opinions on this in 2000. try to focus on what can be done moving forward, like toyota.

i believe in law school you're going to have to learn to see an issue from both sides of the argument. it wouldn't hurt you in life either. notice how i haven't said anything like, conservatives this, or liberals that, i've addressed you and bernie shmegma, with whom i have a much friendlier relationship because we address each other respectfully. you publiusjr, should avoid assertions (especially false ones) in the future, and if you tone down the rhetoric you might just find that we all have plenty to compromise on.

please dont forget publiusjr, that my one issue is education, expanding the vitriol toward me because i'm a "liberal", which seems to you to mean someone more liberal than you, makes me roll my eyes (because i'm arrogant).

as a side note, i think we should start a new forum on the future of nj governance and politics instead of highjacking seton hall's thread to which we should invite all rutgers-newark, rutgers-camden, and seton hall students to join in this debate.

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inSouthAmerica
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby inSouthAmerica » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:36 am

i've started a forum at viewtopic.php?f=10&t=115923 to talk about NJ politics and governance. Seton Hall forum people, I'm sorry I highjacked your thread for so long. I do believe, and agree with bernie shmegma, this line of discourse is extremely important, and urge anyone so interested in new jersey and its political future to join us on the new thread, even you publiusjr.

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HazelEyes
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby HazelEyes » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:37 am

keg411 wrote:WTF :lol:.

You can tell Chris Christie that "random person on a message board" also thinks he's an incompetent governor and said person will be working to make sure he's not re-elected due to his fucking over the NJ public school system. He makes me miss Jon Corzine (and I didn't like Corzine either).


LOL! I agree, but for other reasons.

Stupid Christie just raised my train fares too. I’m so glad the idiot thinks it makes sense to charge people even more money to get to work. As if paying upwards of 150 a month for a 30 minute commute wasn’t bad enough to begin with, now he raised fares 30% and got rid of off-peak trips. STUPID. Why penalize the people who are traveling to NY to work, thereby bringing in more taxable revenue to YOUR state? Maybe I should just stay in NJ and flip burgers or something, instead of spending my salary on train fares.

How about opening up Bergen County on weekends? Wouldn’t it make sense to open one of the most lucrative shopping centers for business on a Sunday? Garden State Plaza, etc. Blue Laws are out, no one else has them, but NJ. Stupid, stupid Christie. Stop taxing and use your friggin brain to come up with sensible ways to generate $$$$.

Ugh.
The only good thing about Newark is Cory Booker. Sigh.

publiusjr
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby publiusjr » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:07 am

FYI, I am sick the last few days and cranky. I also do not listen to Glenn Beck or Rush because I don’t really like them. Sean Hannity I find repetitive. I will confess I listen to Mark Levin. However, are they any worse than Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman or the Huffington post.

Are you saying learning Spanish is productive? How? Make a valid argument on that.

I am for community organizations and also grant programs that help people who are hard working but just need a hand. I support non-partisan groups. When Barack Obama gets over 800k from acorn it shows they are pushing people to vote in a specific way. Additionally, not only has acorn received hundreds of millions of dollars but they were set to get up to $5.2 billion in stimulus money. Are you in the workforce yet? Don’t you care where your tax money is going?

You claim we have so many experienced teachers. Why is NJ at the bottom in education then?

The fact is Spanish is a third world language. Aside from Spain which Spanish speaking country is a world power, fully functioning democracy, a prosperous nation, etc.

My point is teenage mothers does cost you. It costs you to have them in school, it costs with welfare, it costs when they are in prison.

What are you talking about with the collapse and adobe homes?

I was against it then. It was 58 incompetents that voted for that. First it forced the banks and other large wall street entities merge. “Super Mergers” Secondly, they forced banks to fill quotas and make loans they never wanted to make. Thirdly, they forced all of the public to have access to Option Arms/portfolio loans which are loans for investors. Everyone says, “Neg Am loans” when they were simple interest loans designed to be paid off in 12-18 years instead of 30. They gave flexibility. It wasn’t for someone who makes 25k to buy a 500k home and make the minimum payments. But the banks were force to meets quotas on those loans too. Fourthly, they didn’t mandate that all brokers or bankers be required to be licensed thus holding banks and not the individuals (who a lot were greedy) accountable.

This country won’t improve unless we elect better leaders. W bush was only president because his last name was Bush and Barack Obama is a complete joke. He went from never accomplishing anything to becoming president and people wonder why he can’t fix anything. Hillary Clinton would have been better.




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