Seton Hall

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GoodToBeTheKing
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Seton Hall

Postby GoodToBeTheKing » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:35 am

Just went complete today. anyone else applying here? I live in California so do not know too much about the campus besides what I find online and through their info packet. I know they have a great health law program and international law program, and also know Newark is not the greatest place to live.

Anyone visit the campus, know the area, know anything they can interject about why they are applying to Seton Hall?

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underachiever
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby underachiever » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:50 am

Newark is not very nice in general
The area where the Law school is located is okay during the day (right next to several office buildings..PSE&G, the legal center, Prudential arena and Newark Penn Station...and soon to be complete Red Bulls stadium).
B/c of the train station there and the light rail stations nearby you do have a lot of living options.
The nice areas are of course expensive and not so nice areas are usually cheaper but the Hudson county/Newark area is a cool place to live for a few yrs.

PM if you want some more info as I have tons of friends at Seton Hall Law

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:05 am

OP, PM me as well if you want more information about Seton Hall. It's about 10 minutes from where I live and I have some knowledge about the NJ legal market.

Burger in a can
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Burger in a can » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:11 am

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mparty7441
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Mparty7441 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:40 pm

Received a letter from them today, but I'm not home and I told my family not to open it. Anyone get a letter and what did it say?

Ready2golaw
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Ready2golaw » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:16 pm

I received a letter today rather disappointing just said my application has been sent for review.

Burger in a can
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Burger in a can » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:37 pm

Mparty7441 wrote:Received a letter from them today, but I'm not home and I told my family not to open it. Anyone get a letter and what did it say?


I haven't seen a letter, but nobody on LSN has reported any kind of decision yet.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:39 pm

Burger in a can wrote:I'm applying too. Regardless of what snobs on here might say, it's actually a pretty solid regional school, and the area it's in really isn't that bad. IF you want to live and work in NJ, it's a good place to be.

I don't know where in Cali you live, but I spent a few years in the Bay area. Newark is kind of like Oakland- it has a bad reputation, and some parts of it certainly stand up to that reputation, but plenty of parts are decent, and a few areas are actually nice. Seton Hall's neighborhood would fall into the "decent" category.


No. Its really not. You're 100% wrong.

Mparty7441
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Mparty7441 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:43 pm

Ready2golaw wrote:I received a letter today rather disappointing just said my application has been sent for review.


Yeah, I told someone to open it says the same thing, bummer.

Mparty7441
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Mparty7441 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:43 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:I'm applying too. Regardless of what snobs on here might say, it's actually a pretty solid regional school, and the area it's in really isn't that bad. IF you want to live and work in NJ, it's a good place to be.

I don't know where in Cali you live, but I spent a few years in the Bay area. Newark is kind of like Oakland- it has a bad reputation, and some parts of it certainly stand up to that reputation, but plenty of parts are decent, and a few areas are actually nice. Seton Hall's neighborhood would fall into the "decent" category.


No. Its really not. You're 100% wrong.


The whole statement is wrong?

Burger in a can
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Burger in a can » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:57 pm

,
Last edited by Burger in a can on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PapantlaFlyer
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby PapantlaFlyer » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:02 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
Mparty7441 wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:I'm applying too. Regardless of what snobs on here might say, it's actually a pretty solid regional school, and the area it's in really isn't that bad. IF you want to live and work in NJ, it's a good place to be.

I don't know where in Cali you live, but I spent a few years in the Bay area. Newark is kind of like Oakland- it has a bad reputation, and some parts of it certainly stand up to that reputation, but plenty of parts are decent, and a few areas are actually nice. Seton Hall's neighborhood would fall into the "decent" category.


No. Its really not. You're 100% wrong.


The whole statement is wrong?


Reasonable Man likes to cruise around TLS telling everyone how big and scary the real world is. I assume he took issue with my saying anything positive about Seton Hall. We'll probably never know, because he apparently has the time to vaguely criticize, but can't be bothered to explain himself. My advice: ignore.


I live near Newark and it is not pretty by any standard. If there are any "nice" areas, I sure as hell haven't seen them. Regarding Seton Hall, generally speaking, people who know nothing about the legal profession or law school seem to think it's a decent school, while those that have some knowledge of the legal world, or have studied at Seton Hall, seem to think it's pretty much a craphole. But don't take anybody's word for it, got visit and talk to Seton students.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:51 pm

I know. I know. Lawyers have no idea what makes a good law school and what makes a shit-hole. Only 0Ls can make those kinds of judgments. Seton hall charges about 160K to attend and 95% of its graduates earn in the range of about 30 to 60k, if they are employed at all (many are not). Where are my manners? How could I 'cruise around TLS' and have the nerve to be honest and truthful and fail to tell people that they are special snowflakes that will be the rare exception and do well coming from a piece of shit school like Seton hall? I don't even know how I live with myself.

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:02 pm

reasonable_man wrote:I know. I know. Lawyers have no idea what makes a good law school and what makes a shit-hole. Only 0Ls can make those kinds of judgments. Seton hall charges about 160K to attend and 95% of its graduates earn in the range of about 30 to 60k, if they are employed at all (many are not). Where are my manners? How could I 'cruise around TLS' and have the nerve to be honest and truthful and fail to tell people that they are special snowflakes that will be the rare exception and do well coming from a piece of shit school like Seton hall? I don't even know how I live with myself.


SHU isn't good. At all. I hate it (and I'll hate myself more when I send the application). But if you ONLY ONLY ONLY want to work in the state of NJ and have no desire to work in NYC is it somewhat decent. But it's really really really expensive for what it is and it's super competitive. My only knowledge of any legal market at all is New Jersey (specifically North Jersey). It currently has a very slight prestige advantage on Rutgers-Newark (but it is $20k more per year). It is my last-ditch resort of a school because I know what I'll get with it (EXTREME competition and I'll have to rely on my connections entirely for a job).

I've already PM'd a couple of people and told them flat out that they will be making nowhere near $160k out of Seton Hall. You just won't. The big firms aren't hiring and I'm pretty sure the Pharma companies don't hire in-house with no experience. The Essex Co. prosecutor's office pays $42k to start. This is what you should expect out of a school like SHU. Do not borrow to go there and do NOT have delusions of NYC. If you are successful, you can work your way into midlaw, but you have to be a good lawyer and you have to start at the bottom. And these positions won't be glamourous either (Personal Injury or Insurance Defense; some Family Law; some residential Real Estate, Estates & Trusts, etc.)

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:07 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
Mparty7441 wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:I'm applying too. Regardless of what snobs on here might say, it's actually a pretty solid regional school, and the area it's in really isn't that bad. IF you want to live and work in NJ, it's a good place to be.

I don't know where in Cali you live, but I spent a few years in the Bay area. Newark is kind of like Oakland- it has a bad reputation, and some parts of it certainly stand up to that reputation, but plenty of parts are decent, and a few areas are actually nice. Seton Hall's neighborhood would fall into the "decent" category.


No. Its really not. You're 100% wrong.


The whole statement is wrong?


Reasonable Man likes to cruise around TLS telling everyone how big and scary the real world is. I assume he took issue with my saying anything positive about Seton Hall. We'll probably never know, because he apparently has the time to vaguely criticize, but can't be bothered to explain himself. My advice: ignore.


Why don't you survey people with more than 1500 posts and see if they think my advice is worth ignoring?

You want justification:

Seton Hall boasts a 'median starting salary' north of 120k for its grads.. Meanwhile, less than 10% of its class lands jobs at NYLJ250 firms, essentially the only employers paying anything close to 130k+. So if less than 10% of the class will land a job that pays over 120k, how the hell do they get away with listing a 'median' starting salary north of 120k?

The reality of school's like Seton hall are simple. The tuition and expenses run north of 50k a year. Students (for the most part), will only earn about 40 to 60k per year when they graduate (assuming they can find a job at all, many cannot).

Moreover, schools like Seton add to the deception by working up programs in 'international law' and 'health law.' While these programs will provide very interesting subject matter while the student is in school; they DO NOT help you find a job in either area. Seton Hall grads are not working in the international justice courts. Fuck, Yale grads have a hard time getting gigs like that. Moreover, no one gets hired into the health care field from Seton out of school (aside from 1 or 2 kids with connections or serious other credentials in the field before they entered Seton). By and large employers of that ilk don't come looking for law school grads, they hire seasoned attorneys.

What Seton will not tell you is that the bulk of their grads (again excluding the ones that couldn't find jobs at all), will work in low end plaintiff's personal injury, traffic courts, insurance defense, low end consumer bankruptcy cases and collections firms. So if you want to spend almost 200k to get a job earning 39k with free pizza on fridays handling consumer debt defaults for Kohl's credit card accounts... Then sign up at Seton hall and have a fucking blast.

And trust me. Seton has a ZERO prestige up on Rutgers. Anyone in the State of NY or NJ knows full well that Rutgers Pwns Shiton Hall Law any day of the week.

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:19 pm

RM, I asked my attorney dad who works in NJ (he is a RU-Cam grad) about that because I originally thought RU-N >>>>>>>>>> SHU and he said SHU slight > RU-N. I was shocked at it. Trust me. I do think that slight > is not worth $20,000/year. And the job prospects are exactly the same. It's all low-end stuff and by the time you are old (meaning 40's-ish) you can make about $80k/year if you are in the right job.
Last edited by keg411 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:20 pm

keg411 wrote:RM, I asked my attorny dad who works in NJ (he is a RU-Cam grad) about that because I originally thought RU-N >>>>>>>>>> SHU and he said SHU slight > RU-N. I was shocked at it. Trust me. I do think that slight > is not worth $20,000/year. And the job prospects are exactly the same.


I'm not going to argue with ya... but I think if you asked 5 other lawyers in the same area the same question, you'd get a very different response than that from each.

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:31 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
keg411 wrote:RM, I asked my attorny dad who works in NJ (he is a RU-Cam grad) about that because I originally thought RU-N >>>>>>>>>> SHU and he said SHU slight > RU-N. I was shocked at it. Trust me. I do think that slight > is not worth $20,000/year. And the job prospects are exactly the same.


I'm not going to argue with ya... but I think if you asked 5 other lawyers in the same area the same question, you'd get a very different response than that from each.


You're right that it's a small sample size. One of my family friends works in a more prestigious midlaw case (he does bankrupcy; went to Temple; makes better $$$ than my dad) and he says they all don't matter. But he pretty much knows nothing about legal hiring because I've piqued his mind before and 99.9% of their hires are laterals, not new hires. NJ is kind of a "different" legal market because it's so midlaw dominant that you really have to work, work, work if you want to make decent money (which, for me, is about $80k after 10+ years of experience) and they expect you to. You don't borrow a ton of money if you want to be a NJ lawyer.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:34 pm

keg411 wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
keg411 wrote:RM, I asked my attorny dad who works in NJ (he is a RU-Cam grad) about that because I originally thought RU-N >>>>>>>>>> SHU and he said SHU slight > RU-N. I was shocked at it. Trust me. I do think that slight > is not worth $20,000/year. And the job prospects are exactly the same.


I'm not going to argue with ya... but I think if you asked 5 other lawyers in the same area the same question, you'd get a very different response than that from each.


You're right that it's a small sample size. One of my family friends works in a more prestigious midlaw case (he does bankrupcy; went to Temple; makes better $$$ than my dad) and he says they all don't matter. But he pretty much knows nothing about legal hiring because I've piqued his mind before and 99.9% of their hires are laterals, not new hires. NJ is kind of a "different" legal market because it's so midlaw dominant that you really have to work, work, work if you want to make decent money (which, for me, is about $80k after 10+ years of experience) and they expect you to. You don't borrow a ton of money if you want to be a NJ lawyer.


NJ is very Midlaw driven. Agreed. I largely agree with you temple Alum friend.. I really believe that after about the T25 or so (and only kids at the t25 ranked well in their class), its all the same. The difference in quality and hiring prospects from NYLS (TTT) and say Seton or Villanova is so small that its not worth talking about.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:35 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
Mparty7441 wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
Burger in a can wrote:I'm applying too. Regardless of what snobs on here might say, it's actually a pretty solid regional school, and the area it's in really isn't that bad. IF you want to live and work in NJ, it's a good place to be.

I don't know where in Cali you live, but I spent a few years in the Bay area. Newark is kind of like Oakland- it has a bad reputation, and some parts of it certainly stand up to that reputation, but plenty of parts are decent, and a few areas are actually nice. Seton Hall's neighborhood would fall into the "decent" category.


No. Its really not. You're 100% wrong.


The whole statement is wrong?


Reasonable Man likes to cruise around TLS telling everyone how big and scary the real world is. I assume he took issue with my saying anything positive about Seton Hall. We'll probably never know, because he apparently has the time to vaguely criticize, but can't be bothered to explain himself. My advice: ignore.


Now its your turn to say anything of value douche...

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:40 pm

NJ is very Midlaw driven. Agreed. I largely agree with you temple Alum friend.. I really believe that after about the T25 or so (and only kids at the t25 ranked well in their class), its all the same. The difference in quality and hiring prospects from NYLS (TTT) and say Seton or Villanova is so small that its not worth talking about.


No, he meant that his firm didn't care about where anyone went to school (he even says there really isn't a difference between places like BU/Fordham and the lower ranked schools). I don't think laterals care about school as long as you have a track record of success as a lawyer.

ETA: I'd probably say someone from Nova/Temple has better prospects in NJ than someone from NYLS. NJ has enought lower-T2's to choose from that they won't hire peole from NYLS/Pace/Touro/Hofstra etc.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:43 pm

keg411 wrote:
NJ is very Midlaw driven. Agreed. I largely agree with you temple Alum friend.. I really believe that after about the T25 or so (and only kids at the t25 ranked well in their class), its all the same. The difference in quality and hiring prospects from NYLS (TTT) and say Seton or Villanova is so small that its not worth talking about.


No, he meant that his firm didn't care about where anyone went to school (he even says there really isn't a difference between places like BU/Fordham and the lower ranked schools). I don't think laterals care about school as long as you have a track record of success as a lawyer.



I tend to agree with this for the most part as well.. Outside of the very top, there really is no difference. If you survey the 5 partners I work most closely with at my firm probably 2 of them know where I went to LS.

Burger in a can
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby Burger in a can » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:44 pm

reasonable_man wrote:Now its your turn to say anything of value douche...


I think the amount of frantic, neurotic typing you've done in the past 30 minutes or so on this thread alone is marvelous support for my suggestion that you be ignored. I'm not here to get into useless arguments, but hey- do whatever makes you happy :)

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reasonable_man
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby reasonable_man » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:47 pm

Burger in a can wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:Now its your turn to say anything of value douche...


I think the amount of frantic, neurotic typing you've done in the past 30 minutes or so on this thread alone is marvelous support for my suggestion that you be ignored. I'm not here to get into useless arguments, but hey- do whatever makes you happy :)


Translation. You can't back up your position so you'll simply say... "I'm above this and RM should be ignored."

Well done.

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ILoveClowns8
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Re: Seton Hall

Postby ILoveClowns8 » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:18 pm

Ready2golaw wrote:I received a letter today rather disappointing just said my application has been sent for review.

I just got the same letter, basically says "We're reviewing your application."




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