IN AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL!!!!!!

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BenJ
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL!!!!!!

Postby BenJ » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:51 pm

blue5385 wrote:
Dignan wrote:
blue5385 wrote:This may seem like a dumb question on the surface, but do they ever award scholarships to people who didn't fill out the forms (other than a H or B)?

Based on what I've read, CLS will not award aid (besides Hamiltons and Butlers) until the admitted student has submitted the required paperwork. Not all schools are like this, but CLS is apparently a stickler for completed forms and need access applications.


That makes sense. So is all their non H/B-aid strictly need based? It seems like it based on their insistence that students submit all their parents' information to the financial aid office, but I wasn't sure.


Supposedly. Evidence from past years suggests that Columbia is not above giving "need-based" aid to candidates with excellent numbers but minimal need.

Amelie
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL!!!!!!

Postby Amelie » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:51 pm

s419 wrote:
blue5385 wrote:This may seem like a dumb question on the surface, but do they ever award scholarships to people who didn't fill out the forms (other than a H or B)? Chicago just sent me a letter offering me some $ (nothing earth-shattering but definitely nothing to scoff at either) and I didn't fill out Need Access or any other financial aid apps with them or with any other school since my parents' income automatically disqualifies me. Also, I wonder if CLS would entertain the idea of matching Chicago's offer or if it would be a bad idea to bring this up. I really want to go to CLS and I thought I had made up my mind, but the fact that it would now be twice as expensive for me to go to CLS rather than Chicago is making me reconsider.


The language on the website seems to be pretty clear that you must submit Need Access, FAFSA and their own questionnaire to be considered for institutional grants.

Also, do we definitely know they send financial aid awards by mail? Or could we hope for emails?


Definitely snail mail (per my conversation today)

s419
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL!!!!!!

Postby s419 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:53 pm

Amelie wrote:
s419 wrote:
blue5385 wrote:This may seem like a dumb question on the surface, but do they ever award scholarships to people who didn't fill out the forms (other than a H or B)? Chicago just sent me a letter offering me some $ (nothing earth-shattering but definitely nothing to scoff at either) and I didn't fill out Need Access or any other financial aid apps with them or with any other school since my parents' income automatically disqualifies me. Also, I wonder if CLS would entertain the idea of matching Chicago's offer or if it would be a bad idea to bring this up. I really want to go to CLS and I thought I had made up my mind, but the fact that it would now be twice as expensive for me to go to CLS rather than Chicago is making me reconsider.


The language on the website seems to be pretty clear that you must submit Need Access, FAFSA and their own questionnaire to be considered for institutional grants.

Also, do we definitely know they send financial aid awards by mail? Or could we hope for emails?


Definitely snail mail (per my conversation today)


Wow that's...unfortunate. Especially for everyone dealing with early April scholarship deposit deadlines elsewhere. Why would you want to risk losing students by taking extra time to mail things?

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Dignan
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL!!!!!!

Postby Dignan » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:53 pm

blue5385 wrote:
Dignan wrote:
blue5385 wrote:This may seem like a dumb question on the surface, but do they ever award scholarships to people who didn't fill out the forms (other than a H or B)?

Based on what I've read, CLS will not award aid (besides Hamiltons and Butlers) until the admitted student has submitted the required paperwork. Not all schools are like this, but CLS is apparently a stickler for completed forms and need access applications.


That makes sense. So is all their non H/B-aid strictly need based? It seems like it based on their insistence that students submit all their parents' information to the financial aid office, but I wasn't sure.

CLS claims that all of their non H/B aid is strictly need based. In past years, however, some have questioned whether this is really true. If you dig up last year's CLS thread, and if you look at LSN, you'll see that there seems to be some award bias (though it's hard to tell) towards those with higher LSAT scores. Unless those with 174+ LSAT scores are, on a whole, more financially needy than those with lower LSAT scores, it does seem like CLS takes merit factors into consideration, at least a bit. But no one seems to know for certain.

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swc65
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL!!!!!!

Postby swc65 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:32 pm

Amelie wrote:
s419 wrote:
blue5385 wrote:This may seem like a dumb question on the surface, but do they ever award scholarships to people who didn't fill out the forms (other than a H or B)? Chicago just sent me a letter offering me some $ (nothing earth-shattering but definitely nothing to scoff at either) and I didn't fill out Need Access or any other financial aid apps with them or with any other school since my parents' income automatically disqualifies me. Also, I wonder if CLS would entertain the idea of matching Chicago's offer or if it would be a bad idea to bring this up. I really want to go to CLS and I thought I had made up my mind, but the fact that it would now be twice as expensive for me to go to CLS rather than Chicago is making me reconsider.


The language on the website seems to be pretty clear that you must submit Need Access, FAFSA and their own questionnaire to be considered for institutional grants.

Also, do we definitely know they send financial aid awards by mail? Or could we hope for emails?


Definitely snail mail (per my conversation today)



This totally blows. Why do they send this stuff out via snail mail? E-mail is so much faster AND cheaper! Is it due to privacy concerns or something?

Also, sorry to hear they lost your form.

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groundkontrol
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL!!!!!!

Postby groundkontrol » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:22 am

Everyone should join the Facebook group. There's only 62 members:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=367976840450

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby of Benito Cereno » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:42 am

Dignan wrote:
blue5385 wrote:
Dignan wrote:
blue5385 wrote:This may seem like a dumb question on the surface, but do they ever award scholarships to people who didn't fill out the forms (other than a H or B)?

Based on what I've read, CLS will not award aid (besides Hamiltons and Butlers) until the admitted student has submitted the required paperwork. Not all schools are like this, but CLS is apparently a stickler for completed forms and need access applications.


That makes sense. So is all their non H/B-aid strictly need based? It seems like it based on their insistence that students submit all their parents' information to the financial aid office, but I wasn't sure.

CLS claims that all of their non H/B aid is strictly need based. In past years, however, some have questioned whether this is really true. If you dig up last year's CLS thread, and if you look at LSN, you'll see that there seems to be some award bias (though it's hard to tell) towards those with higher LSAT scores. Unless those with 174+ LSAT scores are, on a whole, more financially needy than those with lower LSAT scores, it does seem like CLS takes merit factors into consideration, at least a bit. But no one seems to know for certain.

well, i think its not even a question of needy people with higher lsats being favoured over needy people with lower lsats. instead, from last year it seems that often its people who clearly didn't qualify for aid getting grants clearly based on merit. that is to say, its not just that merit seems to be used in allocating financial aid, rather, financial aid often seems to be purely window dressing on merit grants.
Clearly, a very large percentage of columbia students come from wealthy or upper middle class professional families with parents making over 200k combined a year with substantial equity; its not as if Ivy schools draw evenly from all socioeconomic groups. However, if you look at lsn in previous years, pretty much every nyu merit award recipient except for 2 or 3 exceptions got money from Columbia; does anyone honestl believe that all of these people actually have demonstrable financial need? I'm sure there are tons of children of doctors, lawyers, bankers at cls with 30k grants etc. If that weren't the case columbia would leave itself wide open to losing the top 1/3 of its class to chicago and nyu.

jitsrenzo
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby jitsrenzo » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:10 pm

Anyone get financial aid offers yet? Especially the NYU scholarship folks?

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Dignan
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby Dignan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:15 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
Dignan wrote:CLS claims that all of their non H/B aid is strictly need based. In past years, however, some have questioned whether this is really true. If you dig up last year's CLS thread, and if you look at LSN, you'll see that there seems to be some award bias (though it's hard to tell) towards those with higher LSAT scores. Unless those with 174+ LSAT scores are, on a whole, more financially needy than those with lower LSAT scores, it does seem like CLS takes merit factors into consideration, at least a bit. But no one seems to know for certain.

well, i think its not even a question of needy people with higher lsats being favoured over needy people with lower lsats. instead, from last year it seems that often its people who clearly didn't qualify for aid getting grants clearly based on merit. that is to say, its not just that merit seems to be used in allocating financial aid, rather, financial aid often seems to be purely window dressing on merit grants.
Clearly, a very large percentage of columbia students come from wealthy or upper middle class professional families with parents making over 200k combined a year with substantial equity; its not as if Ivy schools draw evenly from all socioeconomic groups. However, if you look at lsn in previous years, pretty much every nyu merit award recipient except for 2 or 3 exceptions got money from Columbia; does anyone honestl believe that all of these people actually have demonstrable financial need? I'm sure there are tons of children of doctors, lawyers, bankers at cls with 30k grants etc. If that weren't the case columbia would leave itself wide open to losing the top 1/3 of its class to chicago and nyu.

I suspect that you're right, but why doesn't CLS just come out and say that they take merit into account in their awards? Why do they explicitly state that the awards are purely need based? Other schools acknowledge that FA is awarded based on a combination of financial need and merit. I'm not sure why CLS bothers to be mysterious about this.

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Dtackpat75
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby Dtackpat75 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Dignan wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
Dignan wrote:CLS claims that all of their non H/B aid is strictly need based. In past years, however, some have questioned whether this is really true. If you dig up last year's CLS thread, and if you look at LSN, you'll see that there seems to be some award bias (though it's hard to tell) towards those with higher LSAT scores. Unless those with 174+ LSAT scores are, on a whole, more financially needy than those with lower LSAT scores, it does seem like CLS takes merit factors into consideration, at least a bit. But no one seems to know for certain.

well, i think its not even a question of needy people with higher lsats being favoured over needy people with lower lsats. instead, from last year it seems that often its people who clearly didn't qualify for aid getting grants clearly based on merit. that is to say, its not just that merit seems to be used in allocating financial aid, rather, financial aid often seems to be purely window dressing on merit grants.
Clearly, a very large percentage of columbia students come from wealthy or upper middle class professional families with parents making over 200k combined a year with substantial equity; its not as if Ivy schools draw evenly from all socioeconomic groups. However, if you look at lsn in previous years, pretty much every nyu merit award recipient except for 2 or 3 exceptions got money from Columbia; does anyone honestl believe that all of these people actually have demonstrable financial need? I'm sure there are tons of children of doctors, lawyers, bankers at cls with 30k grants etc. If that weren't the case columbia would leave itself wide open to losing the top 1/3 of its class to chicago and nyu.

I suspect that you're right, but why doesn't CLS just come out and say that they take merit into account in their awards? Why do they explicitly state that the awards are purely need based? Other schools acknowledge that FA is awarded based on a combination of financial need and merit. I'm not sure why CLS bothers to be mysterious about this.


It is probably to [strike]feel[/strike] appear more like HLS.

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Dtackpat75
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby Dtackpat75 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:45 pm

So maybe tomorrow as the mail has already been delivered on the East Coast.

andreea7
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby andreea7 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Dtackpat75 wrote:
Dignan wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
Dignan wrote:CLS claims that all of their non H/B aid is strictly need based. In past years, however, some have questioned whether this is really true. If you dig up last year's CLS thread, and if you look at LSN, you'll see that there seems to be some award bias (though it's hard to tell) towards those with higher LSAT scores. Unless those with 174+ LSAT scores are, on a whole, more financially needy than those with lower LSAT scores, it does seem like CLS takes merit factors into consideration, at least a bit. But no one seems to know for certain.

well, i think its not even a question of needy people with higher lsats being favoured over needy people with lower lsats. instead, from last year it seems that often its people who clearly didn't qualify for aid getting grants clearly based on merit. that is to say, its not just that merit seems to be used in allocating financial aid, rather, financial aid often seems to be purely window dressing on merit grants.
Clearly, a very large percentage of columbia students come from wealthy or upper middle class professional families with parents making over 200k combined a year with substantial equity; its not as if Ivy schools draw evenly from all socioeconomic groups. However, if you look at lsn in previous years, pretty much every nyu merit award recipient except for 2 or 3 exceptions got money from Columbia; does anyone honestl believe that all of these people actually have demonstrable financial need? I'm sure there are tons of children of doctors, lawyers, bankers at cls with 30k grants etc. If that weren't the case columbia would leave itself wide open to losing the top 1/3 of its class to chicago and nyu.

I suspect that you're right, but why doesn't CLS just come out and say that they take merit into account in their awards? Why do they explicitly state that the awards are purely need based? Other schools acknowledge that FA is awarded based on a combination of financial need and merit. I'm not sure why CLS bothers to be mysterious about this.


It is probably to [strike]feel[/strike] appear more like HLS.


Wouldn't it make sense that merit is somewhat taken into account? If you have this much money to distribute, and you are looking at so many people with the same relative need -- and by need I mean people who don't have large amounts of cash in savings/checkings/equity,etc. -- how do you decide who gets more/less some/none? Also, don't forget, CLS doesn't owe us anything beyond a good education. It is up to us to decide if said education is worth the huge amounts.

muahawhawhaw
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby muahawhawhaw » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:31 pm

I just got my financial aid "award"... I got nothing, unless a Stafford loan counts haha.

Also, I called them and told them that I needed to hear back by tomorrow for NYU, so they offered to (and did) send me an e-mail attachment of my letter, which is why I got mine so early.

Ugh, this makes my choice very, very difficult (30K from Chicago, 50K from NYU, and I like Columbia marginally better than both)

BenJ
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby BenJ » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:46 pm

Just got my letter from Columbia via email as well. I guess they remembered that I had asked to be informed quickly when I sent them my NYU package!

They did give me money (need based, *snerk*), but only $10k annually, which is less than NYU, and subsequently Columbia is off the table. I will be withdrawing once the NYU extended deadline comes around.

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maudlinstreet
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby maudlinstreet » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:51 pm

I also just got an e-mail that contained my financial aid information (I was RD)! I got $32,500 over 3 years, which is only slightly less than what NYU gave me. Columbia, here I come!

BenJ
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby BenJ » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:58 pm

maudlinstreet wrote:I also just got an e-mail that contained my financial aid information (I was RD)! I got $32,500 over 3 years, which is only slightly less than what NYU gave me. Columbia, here I come!


I'm surprised that they would make such a subtle distinction as $2,500 over three years. Congrats, and I hope you enjoy Columbia!

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Sogui
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby Sogui » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:01 pm

Seconded on financial aid. $50k from Columbia that acknowledged the NYU deadline/amount. My gap was far larger than $2,500 though, by about 10-fold.


What a crazy day
Last edited by Sogui on Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BenJ
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby BenJ » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:02 pm

Columbia definitely won the NYU-Columbia game of chicken on this one. At least for TLS; a lot of applicants probably didn't know to send Columbia NYU's offer and to request a decision rapidly.

muahawhawhaw
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby muahawhawhaw » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:05 pm

I'm hoping you're absolutely right, BenJ. I neglected to send Columbia my NYU offer, which is probably why I didn't get anything. I'll be sending them a copy of my NYU offer tomorrow... hope it's not too late.

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Sogui
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby Sogui » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:06 pm

BenJ wrote:Columbia definitely won the NYU-Columbia game of chicken on this one. At least for lishi; a lot of applicants probably didn't know to send Columbia NYU's offer and to request a decision rapidly.


I didn't even think CLS was going to budge. They get me a very non-nonchalant reply when I informed then about the Dean's Scholly.

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby of Benito Cereno » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:15 pm

muahawhawhaw wrote:I'm hoping you're absolutely right, BenJ. I neglected to send Columbia my NYU offer, which is probably why I didn't get anything. I'll be sending them a copy of my NYU offer tomorrow... hope it's not too late.

eh, i got nothing either and sent my nyu offer. my lsat is a few points above their 75th but I guess the fact that stocks left by grandfather are about enough to cover tuition and the fact that my father has a decent amount of equity excluded me. i guess i'm one of the few exceptions who gets money from nyu and not columbia. anyone get a grant who clearly has no financial need?

BenJ
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby BenJ » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:18 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
muahawhawhaw wrote:I'm hoping you're absolutely right, BenJ. I neglected to send Columbia my NYU offer, which is probably why I didn't get anything. I'll be sending them a copy of my NYU offer tomorrow... hope it's not too late.

eh, i got nothing either and sent my nyu offer. my lsat is a few points above their 75th but I guess the fact that stocks left by grandfather are about enough to cover tuition and the fact that my father has a decent amount of equity excluded me. i guess i'm one of the few exceptions who gets money from nyu and not columbia. anyone get a grant who clearly has no financial need?


*raises hand*

All they required you to report were earnings, though (on the tax forms). The trust fund from my grandparents only made about $1000 this year, so I may have looked like I had need even though I have assets enough to cover two years out of pocket. Parental income should have precluded me from need-based aid regardless, though.

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby of Benito Cereno » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:19 pm

BenJ wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
muahawhawhaw wrote:I'm hoping you're absolutely right, BenJ. I neglected to send Columbia my NYU offer, which is probably why I didn't get anything. I'll be sending them a copy of my NYU offer tomorrow... hope it's not too late.

eh, i got nothing either and sent my nyu offer. my lsat is a few points above their 75th but I guess the fact that stocks left by grandfather are about enough to cover tuition and the fact that my father has a decent amount of equity excluded me. i guess i'm one of the few exceptions who gets money from nyu and not columbia. anyone get a grant who clearly has no financial need?


*raises hand*

All they required you to report were earnings, though (on the tax forms). The trust fund from my grandparents only made about $1000 this year, so I may have looked like I had need. Parental income should have precluded me from need-based aid regardless, though.

to my memory the need access or whatever form had questions about net assets, stocks, etc for both me and my parents.

BenJ
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby BenJ » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:20 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
BenJ wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
muahawhawhaw wrote:I'm hoping you're absolutely right, BenJ. I neglected to send Columbia my NYU offer, which is probably why I didn't get anything. I'll be sending them a copy of my NYU offer tomorrow... hope it's not too late.

eh, i got nothing either and sent my nyu offer. my lsat is a few points above their 75th but I guess the fact that stocks left by grandfather are about enough to cover tuition and the fact that my father has a decent amount of equity excluded me. i guess i'm one of the few exceptions who gets money from nyu and not columbia. anyone get a grant who clearly has no financial need?


*raises hand*

All they required you to report were earnings, though (on the tax forms). The trust fund from my grandparents only made about $1000 this year, so I may have looked like I had need. Parental income should have precluded me from need-based aid regardless, though.

to my memory the need access or whatever form had questions about net assets, stocks, etc for both me and my parents.


Maybe it did; my parents ended up filling out NeedAccess because they didn't want to tell me their financial information. In that case, I was demonstrably not needy.

MellonCollie
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Re: IN AT COLUMBIA lawl skool!!!!!!

Postby MellonCollie » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:22 pm

Has anyone received a schedule or anything for next week's Admit days?




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