UC Irvine 2013

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ViP
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ViP » Fri May 07, 2010 12:18 pm

Does anyone know roughly (or exactly) how many applications UCI received this year? Unfortunately the press-release that revealed LSAT and GPA numbers didn't say anything about the number of applications received, or in other words, the acceptance rate.

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lobstar
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lobstar » Fri May 07, 2010 8:25 pm

ViP wrote:Does anyone know roughly (or exactly) how many applications UCI received this year? Unfortunately the press-release that revealed LSAT and GPA numbers didn't say anything about the number of applications received, or in other words, the acceptance rate.


Far fewer than last year. Evidently, last year's mad rush on UCI included a lot of throw-away applications (per Dean Ortiz). My often faulty memory recalls approximately 1,500 applications.

poslhs
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby poslhs » Sat May 08, 2010 11:02 pm

Did anyone apply for housing? May 14 is coming. I hope I can get into Verano Place but I know my chances are slim. According to a nice email I got from a staff, due to renovations in many of the units in Verano Place, their availability is extremely limited and they may only take a very small number of new students.

ViP
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ViP » Sun May 09, 2010 1:33 am

Does anyone have any insight into the rumors of Bill Lerach teaching at UCI next year? In an interview he said that he plans to teach in early 2011:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... ll-lerach/

Is anyone else disturbed by this? This can't possibly be good publicity for a new program that has so far received nothing but praise from the press and the academic community. If this is true, we'll be the laughing stock of the country...

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lt0826
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lt0826 » Sun May 09, 2010 4:51 am

ViP wrote:Does anyone have any insight into the rumors of Bill Lerach teaching at UCI next year? In an interview he said that he plans to teach in early 2011:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... ll-lerach/

Is anyone else disturbed by this? This can't possibly be good publicity for a new program that has so far received nothing but praise from the press and the academic community. If this is true, we'll be the laughing stock of the country...


No insight and not sure what to think exactly. It sounds like the case may not be completely black and white. It is also unclear if he will be an adjunct or on tenure track. I am not sure I really take issue with his teaching as an adjunct at all. Less sure how I feel about him on tenure track - I would want to know more details about what he did and why for sure.

To some extent once someone has served their time I don't like the idea of punishing them for life afterward. So the question is does he know his stuff and can he teach it? In terms of a reflection on his character - I really need to do more research on what he did. Was it a case of good motives bad behavior or was it a cut and dry case of criminal behavior and disregard for the law?

ViP
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ViP » Sun May 09, 2010 12:36 pm

lt0826 wrote:
ViP wrote:Does anyone have any insight into the rumors of Bill Lerach teaching at UCI next year? In an interview he said that he plans to teach in early 2011:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... ll-lerach/

Is anyone else disturbed by this? This can't possibly be good publicity for a new program that has so far received nothing but praise from the press and the academic community. If this is true, we'll be the laughing stock of the country...


No insight and not sure what to think exactly. It sounds like the case may not be completely black and white. It is also unclear if he will be an adjunct or on tenure track. I am not sure I really take issue with his teaching as an adjunct at all. Less sure how I feel about him on tenure track - I would want to know more details about what he did and why for sure.

To some extent once someone has served their time I don't like the idea of punishing them for life afterward. So the question is does he know his stuff and can he teach it? In terms of a reflection on his character - I really need to do more research on what he did. Was it a case of good motives bad behavior or was it a cut and dry case of criminal behavior and disregard for the law?


Oh, well if there's any truth to this whole thing it's certainly not with regard to a full-time position. The man was never a professor in the first place. He was a lawyer (he has been debarred), and now he's a felon. It would be ludicrous to give the man the same status as the rest of our star-studded faculty, whether he ever committed a crime or not.

I agree that criminals shouldn't always be treated as forever "punished," but that doesn't mean we should let this guy leave the cell and walk right onto our campus to teach us law. We already have a top-10 faculty in the country. What's the need for this guy? Would anything good come of it? We'll likely be labeled a crazy, loony leftist program that claims to serve public interest but agrees to allow criminals to teach the law of the land.

What he did was well-intentioned, but I don't think that's the point at all (at least not in my mind).

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lt0826
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lt0826 » Sun May 09, 2010 12:42 pm

ViP wrote:
lt0826 wrote:
ViP wrote:Does anyone have any insight into the rumors of Bill Lerach teaching at UCI next year? In an interview he said that he plans to teach in early 2011:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... ll-lerach/

Is anyone else disturbed by this? This can't possibly be good publicity for a new program that has so far received nothing but praise from the press and the academic community. If this is true, we'll be the laughing stock of the country...


No insight and not sure what to think exactly. It sounds like the case may not be completely black and white. It is also unclear if he will be an adjunct or on tenure track. I am not sure I really take issue with his teaching as an adjunct at all. Less sure how I feel about him on tenure track - I would want to know more details about what he did and why for sure.

To some extent once someone has served their time I don't like the idea of punishing them for life afterward. So the question is does he know his stuff and can he teach it? In terms of a reflection on his character - I really need to do more research on what he did. Was it a case of good motives bad behavior or was it a cut and dry case of criminal behavior and disregard for the law?


Oh, well if there's any truth to this whole thing it's certainly not with regard to a full-time position. The man was never a professor in the first place. He was a lawyer (he has been debarred), and now he's a felon. It would be ludicrous to give the man the same status as the rest of our star-studded faculty, whether he ever committed a crime or not.

I agree that criminals shouldn't always be treated as forever "punished," but that doesn't mean we should let this guy leave the cell and walk right onto our campus to teach us law. We already have a top-10 faculty in the country. What's the need for this guy? Would anything good come of it? We'll likely be labeled a crazy, loony leftist program that claims to serve public interest but agrees to allow criminals to teach the law of the land.

What he did was well-intentioned, but I don't think that's the point at all (at least not in my mind).


I bet if you contacted Dean C and asked him about it he would be happy to discuss it with you. He has been very willing to discuss other concerns I've had openly. We can speculate on here all we want but we won't really know what is going on, nor the reasoning behind the decision. I agree that in terms of establishing its reputation, Irvine maybe has more to lose by hiring someone like Lerach than other schools might that have more established reputations.

ViP
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ViP » Sun May 09, 2010 1:08 pm

lt0826 wrote:
ViP wrote:
lt0826 wrote:
ViP wrote:Does anyone have any insight into the rumors of Bill Lerach teaching at UCI next year? In an interview he said that he plans to teach in early 2011:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... ll-lerach/

Is anyone else disturbed by this? This can't possibly be good publicity for a new program that has so far received nothing but praise from the press and the academic community. If this is true, we'll be the laughing stock of the country...


No insight and not sure what to think exactly. It sounds like the case may not be completely black and white. It is also unclear if he will be an adjunct or on tenure track. I am not sure I really take issue with his teaching as an adjunct at all. Less sure how I feel about him on tenure track - I would want to know more details about what he did and why for sure.

To some extent once someone has served their time I don't like the idea of punishing them for life afterward. So the question is does he know his stuff and can he teach it? In terms of a reflection on his character - I really need to do more research on what he did. Was it a case of good motives bad behavior or was it a cut and dry case of criminal behavior and disregard for the law?


Oh, well if there's any truth to this whole thing it's certainly not with regard to a full-time position. The man was never a professor in the first place. He was a lawyer (he has been debarred), and now he's a felon. It would be ludicrous to give the man the same status as the rest of our star-studded faculty, whether he ever committed a crime or not.

I agree that criminals shouldn't always be treated as forever "punished," but that doesn't mean we should let this guy leave the cell and walk right onto our campus to teach us law. We already have a top-10 faculty in the country. What's the need for this guy? Would anything good come of it? We'll likely be labeled a crazy, loony leftist program that claims to serve public interest but agrees to allow criminals to teach the law of the land.

What he did was well-intentioned, but I don't think that's the point at all (at least not in my mind).


I bet if you contacted Dean C and asked him about it he would be happy to discuss it with you. He has been very willing to discuss other concerns I've had openly. We can speculate on here all we want but we won't really know what is going on, nor the reasoning behind the decision. I agree that in terms of establishing its reputation, Irvine maybe has more to lose by hiring someone like Lerach than other schools might that have more established reputations.


Absolutely. I also feel that with all the talk of building the school alongside the students, the administration would inform us of such a controversial decision before making it and before it hits the press. Our community is still small enough where we can easily share news, discuss our concerns, and hopefully have a say in decision-making (at least when the decision is this big).

poslhs
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby poslhs » Sun May 09, 2010 7:01 pm

ViP wrote:Does anyone have any insight into the rumors of Bill Lerach teaching at UCI next year? In an interview he said that he plans to teach in early 2011:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... ll-lerach/

Is anyone else disturbed by this? This can't possibly be good publicity for a new program that has so far received nothing but praise from the press and the academic community. If this is true, we'll be the laughing stock of the country...


I basically agree with lt0826 and others, but what really concerns me is what Bill Lerach said here.
" I hope that my work with law school teaching will be treated as community service. "

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lobstar
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lobstar » Sun May 09, 2010 9:27 pm

Regarding the role of students writ large:

I don't expect the school's decisions to have to be ratified by a bunch of students.

The talk of "building the school" refers to the spirit behind establishing a new law school. Just as the students are taking a risk on striking out into uncharted territory, so are the professors and staff. I believe construing "building the school" to mean that students get to participate directly in administration is a perversion of what they meant.

That said, the administration would listen to your concerns if you shared them (and if you have them, you should share them), but I would not mistake valuing your input with heeding your direction. They are entirely separate things.



Regarding Lerach in particular:

Lerach would be appearing as an adjunct. He's not a professional academic, so no fear there.

While Lerach is a convicted felon, he's also a formidable attorney. I, for one, would have no objection to him teaching some lawyering skills courses or even something on class action. The very name of the man instills fear in the hearts of men in board rooms.

It's not like he killed anyone, either. He had some unethical business practices, and they caught up with him. He served his two year prison sentence, so it's not like he's a lifer on parole. I think it highly unlikely that this will "tarnish" UCI's reputation in the least bit.

Admittedly, you won't see me taking pictures with him. Wouldn't want anyone to accuse me of pallin' around with felons.

P.S. Spitzer is teaching a CUNY class or something or other as an adjunt.

Edit: I recall this announcement a long time, or at least several months ago, from the UCI Facebook page.

ViP
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ViP » Mon May 10, 2010 11:52 am

lobstar wrote:Regarding the role of students writ large:

I don't expect the school's decisions to have to be ratified by a bunch of students.

The talk of "building the school" refers to the spirit behind establishing a new law school. Just as the students are taking a risk on striking out into uncharted territory, so are the professors and staff. I believe construing "building the school" to mean that students get to participate directly in administration is a perversion of what they meant.

That said, the administration would listen to your concerns if you shared them (and if you have them, you should share them), but I would not mistake valuing your input with heeding your direction. They are entirely separate things.

Regarding Lerach in particular:

Lerach would be appearing as an adjunct. He's not a professional academic, so no fear there.

While Lerach is a convicted felon, he's also a formidable attorney. I, for one, would have no objection to him teaching some lawyering skills courses or even something on class action. The very name of the man instills fear in the hearts of men in board rooms.

It's not like he killed anyone, either. He had some unethical business practices, and they caught up with him. He served his two year prison sentence, so it's not like he's a lifer on parole. I think it highly unlikely that this will "tarnish" UCI's reputation in the least bit.

Admittedly, you won't see me taking pictures with him. Wouldn't want anyone to accuse me of pallin' around with felons.

P.S. Spitzer is teaching a CUNY class or something or other as an adjunt.

Edit: I recall this announcement a long time, or at least several months ago, from the UCI Facebook page.


Of course the school's decisions shouldn't require ratification by a bunch of students. But as I said, this isn't any ordinary decision. I'm glad you don't think this will tarnish UCI's reputation, but I couldn't disagree more. I'm sure those on the extreme left won't be critical of UCI at all, but everyone else will. We're still such a new school and I just don't see the benefit of such a controversial move at this early stage. We just opened our doors. We haven't established enough of a name yet to casually make this type of decision.

In terms of the benefits of having him as a teacher...

Sure, he was a fear-instilling lawyer (bar membership revoked), but the point is he was cheating the system. It truly is frightening how much money he obtained through deceit.

Anyways, I hope the rumors aren't true. All speculation at this point, but it's interesting to see different views among the student body.

JoyceL1986
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby JoyceL1986 » Mon May 10, 2010 3:46 pm

I give the deans benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing. But from the reading, it doesn't seem like Lerach is a type of a person who is interested in teaching for sake of the love of teaching. He's treating it like a community service.

Also, the public, including educated members, often forget that his criminal past has little bearing on his ability to teach. I personally hope Lerach doesn't get hired. It's just not productive in the flourishing stages of school development to attract negative publicity.

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lobstar
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lobstar » Mon May 10, 2010 5:18 pm

Man, if I were Dean Ortiz, I don't think I would be able to stay out of this discussion.

It's all sophistry at this point anyhow. Why doesn't someone straight up ask Dean Ortiz if it's true or not, before all the hand-wringing continues?

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lt0826
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lt0826 » Mon May 10, 2010 6:07 pm

poslhs wrote:
ViP wrote:Does anyone have any insight into the rumors of Bill Lerach teaching at UCI next year? In an interview he said that he plans to teach in early 2011:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... ll-lerach/

Is anyone else disturbed by this? This can't possibly be good publicity for a new program that has so far received nothing but praise from the press and the academic community. If this is true, we'll be the laughing stock of the country...


I basically agree with lt0826 and others, but what really concerns me is what Bill Lerach said here.
" I hope that my work with law school teaching will be treated as community service. "


So on the whole speculation front - I agree that that particular comment concerned me. However, maybe he would be volunteering his time to teach the class instead of getting paid. That at least would bear some resemblance to community service.

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ruleser
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ruleser » Tue May 11, 2010 11:38 am

About the above topic, the comment that bothered me is when he says he wouldn't do anything differently. Also, if you read this sentencing memorandum submitted by Lerach asking for leniency http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/lerachsentmem.pdf, you will see it asserted again and again that Bill supposedly refused to allow anyone to infer that the verdict was unfair or unjust, and that Bill accepted what he had done and was ready to do his sentence. Then you read the above article from after his time in jail, and he implies in there he didn't necessarily find the result/trial all that fair. Sounds like fake remorse before, and a bit of bragging after, "People may not like this, but I wouldn't do anything differently."

That's kind of different from, "I did something dumb, I learned, let's move on."

jayare
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby jayare » Tue May 11, 2010 12:24 pm

I just noticed they're accepting transfers. Any thoughts on this?

I wonder if the motivation is to make up for attrition (if there is any?) or perhaps to pad the 2012 class with some paying students?

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Veritas
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby Veritas » Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm

I keep making up reasons to drive by UCI when I make little trips to LA :oops:

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ruleser
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ruleser » Tue May 11, 2010 12:29 pm

jayare wrote:I just noticed they're accepting transfers. Any thoughts on this?

I wonder if the motivation is to make up for attrition (if there is any?) or perhaps to pad the 2012 class with some paying students?

I assume just a way to help get some $$ in the door, as well as offer some adit students the op to be a part of the prog, but not basing it on anything other than guessing.

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S de Garmeaux
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby S de Garmeaux » Tue May 11, 2010 12:50 pm

the 93 SIR's in the press release is very discouraging to a waitlister :(

jayare
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby jayare » Tue May 11, 2010 12:57 pm

S de Garmeaux wrote:the 93 SIR's in the press release is very discouraging to a waitlister :(



Oo, where is this press release? I didn't catch it.

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pany1985
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby pany1985 » Tue May 11, 2010 1:43 pm

jayare wrote:I just noticed they're accepting transfers. Any thoughts on this?

I wonder if the motivation is to make up for attrition (if there is any?) or perhaps to pad the 2012 class with some paying students?


There's been no attrition. All 60 of us are still here.

I think the main reasons for transfers are probably (1) we have plenty of faculty members, and upper-level classes will all be fairly small in size, so we definitely have the room to bring a few people in; and (2) they pay full price.

UCI's doing fine in the money department, but a little extra never hurts...

SandyC877
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby SandyC877 » Tue May 11, 2010 3:49 pm

wow do transfers really pay full price?

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lobstar
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lobstar » Tue May 11, 2010 5:30 pm

SandyC877 wrote:wow do transfers really pay full price?


Transfers almost never receive any kind of grant funding, and are commonly used as a source of income at all levels of higher education. International students as well, but there are exceptions, of course.

In fact, many people pay full price at their top choice, since schools parcel out grant funding according to strength of the applicant. The weaker the applicant, the less likely to have better offers, and therefore a higher willingness to pay. Econ 101.

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ruleser
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ruleser » Tue May 11, 2010 5:36 pm

lobstar wrote:
SandyC877 wrote:wow do transfers really pay full price?


Transfers almost never receive any kind of grant funding, and are commonly used as a source of income at all levels of higher education. International students as well, but there are exceptions, of course.

In fact, many people pay full price at their top choice, since schools parcel out grant funding according to strength of the applicant. The weaker the applicant, the less likely to have better offers, and therefore a higher willingness to pay. Econ 101.

Yeah, it is a great op, say, for someone who couldn't hack the LSAT or messed up UG to transfer up from a T2 to a top program - I can imagine some Loyola/USD transfers who would be thrilled to get to be a part of UCI's program, even at sticker.




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