UC Irvine 2013

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mbv
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby mbv » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:08 pm

jayare wrote:
mbv wrote:FYI, UCI will not be giving need based grants with their financial aid package. This info was provided by Nasreen (Dir of financial aid) who gave my group the tour of the law school during ASD.

She also said they are not neogtiating merit aid offers to students. Does anyone have any experiences on the contrary? I recall reading someone "poshh.. (username)" saying he/she was international and got a full scholarship. Anyone else?



Anecdotal evidence from ASD confirms they aren't negotiating. This seems like a dangerous long-term strategy though. Who would take 50% at UCI (as much as I love it) if you had even 25% to a T14 (especially out of staters whose tuition I've read is expected to rise above 60k by 2013)? I think they're banking on a certain type of student really disregarding finances for the unique UCI opportunity.


I asked various administrators from UCI what their plans were for scholarships in the coming years. Nasreen said they don't know yet, BUT they might do 50% again or maybe 1/3 or maybe case-by-case. She did say that in the long run they want to be at least as competitive as Berkeley in merit aid.

I'm interested how this will affect the stats for the incoming class. Though, Dean Chemerinsky seemed to say that UCI WILL maintain their medians and they will extend offers to students accordingly.

I emailed Dean Ortiz after ASD and she said based on my other offers, she is not willing to increase my scholarship funds. However, she never in her email said explicitly that UCI is NOT competing at all. That would have been an easy answer to type. Instead, she was very specific in explaining how my offer at UCI made thm equal or comprable in cost to my other offers.

socal99
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby socal99 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:32 pm

Direct quote from ASD reception:

OC bigwig lawyer comes up to me: "Are you interested in making money? Come to UCI and you can come work for us!"

That was the general attitude I sensed from the OC supporters.

NiGhTHaWk830
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby NiGhTHaWk830 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:47 am

lobstar wrote:
Grad school is expensive, period. There will be hardship involved for many of us, no doubt, but if you truly think it will be to an undue degree, I suggest picking up the phone and calling Dean Ortiz. As far as negotiation goes, they will probably congratulate you on your scholarship to other schools and wish you the best of luck in making a decision.


I think they have more than enough people willing to come...so yeah they would probably say "Those sound like good offers, why don't you take them?" in so many words

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tru
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby tru » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:19 am

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Last edited by tru on Fri May 20, 2016 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jayare
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby jayare » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:20 am

lobstar wrote:
jayare wrote:
mbv wrote:FYI, UCI will not be giving need based grants with their financial aid package. This info was provided by Nasreen (Dir of financial aid) who gave my group the tour of the law school during ASD.

She also said they are not neogtiating merit aid offers to students. Does anyone have any experiences on the contrary? I recall reading someone "poshh.. (username)" saying he/she was international and got a full scholarship. Anyone else?



Anecdotal evidence from ASD confirms they aren't negotiating. This seems like a dangerous long-term strategy though. Who would take 50% at UCI (as much as I love it) if you had even 25% to a T14 (especially out of staters whose tuition I've read is expected to rise above 60k by 2013)? I think they're banking on a certain type of student really disregarding finances for the unique UCI opportunity.


I don't think 'banking' and 'UCI' necessarily go together in the same sentence. They aren't trying to buy or invest in students in any such regard, but are instead picking students and trying to make it affordable.

The tuition discount isn't a discount per se - the cost of the roughly $61,500 per student is directly underwritten by private grant funding. That's half a million ($500,000) dollars right there, which works out to be about 50% tuition per student. The first class was worth $700,000. That's quite a bit of money to hand out.

Dangerous strategy? I'm not privy to their finances, but offering unsustainable grants seems to be dangerous as well.

Grad school is expensive, period. There will be hardship involved for many of us, no doubt, but if you truly think it will be to an undue degree, I suggest picking up the phone and calling Dean Ortiz. As far as negotiation goes, they will probably congratulate you on your scholarship to other schools and wish you the best of luck in making a decision.


I didn't do the best job of explaining myself; what I meant by "dangerous strategy" is the practice of never adjusting aid packages to match competitor schools to persuade a legitimately ambivalent student to attend UCI who would otherwise make a good addition to the school. I agree on the unsustainability of giving an entire class grants.

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msch0i
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby msch0i » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:00 pm

Kind of off topic...but is anyone else still waiting planning on reapplying next cycle? I wonder if they will give generous scholarships like someone mentioned above (third-half scholarships). Any thoughts?

finalaspects
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby finalaspects » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:11 pm

msch0i wrote:Kind of off topic...but is anyone else still waiting planning on reapplying next cycle? I wonder if they will give generous scholarships like someone mentioned above (third-half scholarships). Any thoughts?


i don't think irvine knows yet what they'll do. if they have the cash i think they'll offer half or a third at least.

but for you ms choi, all you need to do is get a higher LSAT. take it again and reapply. you'll get a lot more better offers if you at least score 5+ points. if by chance you do worse, it won't really matter since most schools take the highest. you have nothing to lose.

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msch0i
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby msch0i » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:30 pm

finalaspects wrote:
msch0i wrote:Kind of off topic...but is anyone else still waiting planning on reapplying next cycle? I wonder if they will give generous scholarships like someone mentioned above (third-half scholarships). Any thoughts?


i don't think irvine knows yet what they'll do. if they have the cash i think they'll offer half or a third at least.

but for you ms choi, all you need to do is get a higher LSAT. take it again and reapply. you'll get a lot more better offers if you at least score 5+ points. if by chance you do worse, it won't really matter since most schools take the highest. you have nothing to lose.


I really hope they do offer some kind of across-the-board scholarship next cycle. And yes, I do plan on owning the LSAT :D Good luck to you final! Keeping my fingers crossed for you ;D

mbv
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby mbv » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:41 pm

Daytukrjabs wrote:
jayare wrote:
mbv wrote:FYI, UCI will not be giving need based grants with their financial aid package. This info was provided by Nasreen (Dir of financial aid) who gave my group the tour of the law school during ASD.

She also said they are not neogtiating merit aid offers to students. Does anyone have any experiences on the contrary? I recall reading someone "poshh.. (username)" saying he/she was international and got a full scholarship. Anyone else?



Anecdotal evidence from ASD confirms they aren't negotiating. This seems like a dangerous long-term strategy though. Who would take 50% at UCI (as much as I love it) if you had even 25% to a T14 (especially out of staters whose tuition I've read is expected to rise above 60k by 2013)? I think they're banking on a certain type of student really disregarding finances for the unique UCI opportunity.


I don't think UCI is after the T14 students. I don't think T14 students are after UCI, with/without schollies. People who have T14 in mind will go to T14 if given the opportunity. Wrong demographics IMO. Look at the student profile at UCI. They are hand-picked, unique individuals achieved in their own ways. Average age at UCI is higher than most schools that take students straight outta college with strong #s. I am convinced that more than enough qualified students will go to UCI and maintaining the 167 median won't be hard at all. It makes sense for them to compromise on the class size, if it comes down to it, since it's a start up school anyway and they do not need to collect sticker tuitions in the short term.

I believe them when they say that they want to create a very special law school. If you think that 50% at UCI isn't good enough, it would be in your best interest to take that other offer. This school probably isn't for you if you cannot discern what the school is actually offering, with all of its intangibles.


I am interested in the intangibles of the school and I do feel that it will be an amazing place to study for 3 years, so I may decide to just pay up...but I would disagree that UCI isn't interested in T14 students. If they want to be a T10 or T20 in the future years, which is precisely what the administration said to us during ASD, they will need to compete with T10 and T20 schools for students. UCI offers some aspects that are completely unique (faculty student ratio, small class size and opportunity to participate in institution building) but that will change or at least diminish some in the coming years as UCI grows.

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DarkwingDick
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby DarkwingDick » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:50 pm

mbv wrote:
Daytukrjabs wrote:
jayare wrote:
mbv wrote:FYI, UCI will not be giving need based grants with their financial aid package. This info was provided by Nasreen (Dir of financial aid) who gave my group the tour of the law school during ASD.

She also said they are not neogtiating merit aid offers to students. Does anyone have any experiences on the contrary? I recall reading someone "poshh.. (username)" saying he/she was international and got a full scholarship. Anyone else?



Anecdotal evidence from ASD confirms they aren't negotiating. This seems like a dangerous long-term strategy though. Who would take 50% at UCI (as much as I love it) if you had even 25% to a T14 (especially out of staters whose tuition I've read is expected to rise above 60k by 2013)? I think they're banking on a certain type of student really disregarding finances for the unique UCI opportunity.


I don't think UCI is after the T14 students. I don't think T14 students are after UCI, with/without schollies. People who have T14 in mind will go to T14 if given the opportunity. Wrong demographics IMO. Look at the student profile at UCI. They are hand-picked, unique individuals achieved in their own ways. Average age at UCI is higher than most schools that take students straight outta college with strong #s. I am convinced that more than enough qualified students will go to UCI and maintaining the 167 median won't be hard at all. It makes sense for them to compromise on the class size, if it comes down to it, since it's a start up school anyway and they do not need to collect sticker tuitions in the short term.

I believe them when they say that they want to create a very special law school. If you think that 50% at UCI isn't good enough, it would be in your best interest to take that other offer. This school probably isn't for you if you cannot discern what the school is actually offering, with all of its intangibles.


I am interested in the intangibles of the school and I do feel that it will be an amazing place to study for 3 years, so I may decide to just pay up...but I would disagree that UCI isn't interested in T14 students. If they want to be a T10 or T20 in the future years, which is precisely what the administration said to us during ASD, they will need to compete with T10 and T20 schools for students. UCI offers some aspects that are completely unique (faculty student ratio, small class size and opportunity to participate in institution building) but that will change or at least diminish some in the coming years as UCI grows.


This school probably isn't for you if you cannot discern what the school is actually offering, with all of its intangibles.

I must say that this somewhat defensive attitude is extremely off-putting and something that I have unfortunately seen in a number of people discussing UCI.

mbv
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby mbv » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:19 pm

Actually I must say that I did experience this from a couple of current students at UCI (obviously the minority of people I spoke with but still)....one 1L asked me if I had any questions and I said that I had some concerns and voiced them to him. They were very specific, but he flat out told me that "If you have all these concerns, then you should not come to UCI."

I feel that I have concerns at EVERY school that I applied to. Each school has a few things that set it apart and I am trying to get answers from students who might share some insight on how these features affect students. Having a 1L tell me flat out not to come to UCI made me feel unwelcomed to say the very least. Luckily, I met many more 1Ls that were much more helpful.

And it's not that 50% "isn't good enough for me." But we're all obviously debt adverse (to varying degrees) and it really doesn't hurt to ask, does it? And the decision would certainly be made easier if it were cheaper :)

mbv
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby mbv » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:21 pm

msch0i wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
msch0i wrote:Kind of off topic...but is anyone else still waiting planning on reapplying next cycle? I wonder if they will give generous scholarships like someone mentioned above (third-half scholarships). Any thoughts?


i don't think irvine knows yet what they'll do. if they have the cash i think they'll offer half or a third at least.

but for you ms choi, all you need to do is get a higher LSAT. take it again and reapply. you'll get a lot more better offers if you at least score 5+ points. if by chance you do worse, it won't really matter since most schools take the highest. you have nothing to lose.


I really hope they do offer some kind of across-the-board scholarship next cycle. And yes, I do plan on owning the LSAT :D Good luck to you final! Keeping my fingers crossed for you ;D


What's this about next year?! They haven't rejected you yet. Keep the hope alive! :)

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tru
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby tru » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:37 pm

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Last edited by tru on Fri May 20, 2016 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lobstar
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lobstar » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:14 pm

Daytukrjabs wrote:
mbv wrote:Actually I must say that I did experience this from a couple of current students at UCI (obviously the minority of people I spoke with but still)....one 1L asked me if I had any questions and I said that I had some concerns and voiced them to him. They were very specific, but he flat out told me that "If you have all these concerns, then you should not come to UCI."

I feel that I have concerns at EVERY school that I applied to. Each school has a few things that set it apart and I am trying to get answers from students who might share some insight on how these features affect students. Having a 1L tell me flat out not to come to UCI made me feel unwelcomed to say the very least. Luckily, I met many more 1Ls that were much more helpful.

And it's not that 50% "isn't good enough for me." But we're all obviously debt adverse (to varying degrees) and it really doesn't hurt to ask, does it? And the decision would certainly be made easier if it were cheaper :)


My apologies. I did not mean to come off sounding offensive. I am not a big fan of making school decisions solely based on arbitrary and flawed rankings. I felt that the discussion was headed towards that direction.

But I agree with you. You have every right to consider the scholarship options and pertinent debt concerns as well. That 1L has no right to tell you what he did, but this is certainly not the norm. I think the reality is that each and every law school will have people with entitlement, my-team-is-the-best-team, mindset. However, I'd argue that based on what I've read, the entire class has been hand-picked with care, and that most students would not be as douchey.

I'm biased. I would take UCI at a heartbeat, so do take my words with a grain of salt.


There definitely is a subtle attitude that underwrites the entire UCI Law culture, and sometimes it can bubble up and strike you the wrong way. It seems that the fast track to offending an UCI law student is to tell him, "make your case as to why UCI Law is a good school."

I think the reaction you'd get is symptomatic of how UCI considers itself. I don't think there's any doubt that something truly different is going on at UCI, and that this makes for what promises to be an excellent education. UCI knows this, and it makes the school extremely self-assured and close-knit. They know they're different, and that's all that matters to them.

I really like it, and I think it fosters a great group dynamic for students, but I can definitely see how someone saying, "clearly you don't know what's going on at UCI" can rub you the wrong way. UCI students will be very helpful and friendly in answering your questions, but will definitely not take the time to win cynics over - they fully intend for the class to be self-selective.

P.S. I'm passing up T14 for this, and it's not for the money. Although it doesn't hurt.

14yearplan
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby 14yearplan » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:39 pm

lobstar wrote:
Daytukrjabs wrote:
mbv wrote:Actually I must say that I did experience this from a couple of current students at UCI (obviously the minority of people I spoke with but still)....one 1L asked me if I had any questions and I said that I had some concerns and voiced them to him. They were very specific, but he flat out told me that "If you have all these concerns, then you should not come to UCI."

I feel that I have concerns at EVERY school that I applied to. Each school has a few things that set it apart and I am trying to get answers from students who might share some insight on how these features affect students. Having a 1L tell me flat out not to come to UCI made me feel unwelcomed to say the very least. Luckily, I met many more 1Ls that were much more helpful.

And it's not that 50% "isn't good enough for me." But we're all obviously debt adverse (to varying degrees) and it really doesn't hurt to ask, does it? And the decision would certainly be made easier if it were cheaper :)


My apologies. I did not mean to come off sounding offensive. I am not a big fan of making school decisions solely based on arbitrary and flawed rankings. I felt that the discussion was headed towards that direction.

But I agree with you. You have every right to consider the scholarship options and pertinent debt concerns as well. That 1L has no right to tell you what he did, but this is certainly not the norm. I think the reality is that each and every law school will have people with entitlement, my-team-is-the-best-team, mindset. However, I'd argue that based on what I've read, the entire class has been hand-picked with care, and that most students would not be as douchey.

I'm biased. I would take UCI at a heartbeat, so do take my words with a grain of salt.


There definitely is a subtle attitude that underwrites the entire UCI Law culture, and sometimes it can bubble up and strike you the wrong way. It seems that the fast track to offending an UCI law student is to tell him, "make your case as to why UCI Law is a good school."

I think the reaction you'd get is symptomatic of how UCI considers itself. I don't think there's any doubt that something truly different is going on at UCI, and that this makes for what promises to be an excellent education. UCI knows this, and it makes the school extremely self-assured and close-knit. They know they're different, and that's all that matters to them.

I really like it, and I think it fosters a great group dynamic for students, but I can definitely see how someone saying, "clearly you don't know what's going on at UCI" can rub you the wrong way. UCI students will be very helpful and friendly in answering your questions, but will definitely not take the time to win cynics over - they fully intend for the class to be self-selective.

P.S. I'm passing up T14 for this, and it's not for the money. Although it doesn't hurt.


A thoughtful response like this from a student who will be there next year is exactly why I hope to still be accepted. Well put! I sometimes fear having to be in class with a bunch of immature TLS'ers, and I do not think that will be the case at UCI. :-) It will be unique and exciting and I wish you luck.

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lobstar
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lobstar » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:21 pm

14yearplan wrote:
lobstar wrote:
Daytukrjabs wrote:
mbv wrote:Actually I must say that I did experience this from a couple of current students at UCI (obviously the minority of people I spoke with but still)....one 1L asked me if I had any questions and I said that I had some concerns and voiced them to him. They were very specific, but he flat out told me that "If you have all these concerns, then you should not come to UCI."

I feel that I have concerns at EVERY school that I applied to. Each school has a few things that set it apart and I am trying to get answers from students who might share some insight on how these features affect students. Having a 1L tell me flat out not to come to UCI made me feel unwelcomed to say the very least. Luckily, I met many more 1Ls that were much more helpful.

And it's not that 50% "isn't good enough for me." But we're all obviously debt adverse (to varying degrees) and it really doesn't hurt to ask, does it? And the decision would certainly be made easier if it were cheaper :)


My apologies. I did not mean to come off sounding offensive. I am not a big fan of making school decisions solely based on arbitrary and flawed rankings. I felt that the discussion was headed towards that direction.

But I agree with you. You have every right to consider the scholarship options and pertinent debt concerns as well. That 1L has no right to tell you what he did, but this is certainly not the norm. I think the reality is that each and every law school will have people with entitlement, my-team-is-the-best-team, mindset. However, I'd argue that based on what I've read, the entire class has been hand-picked with care, and that most students would not be as douchey.

I'm biased. I would take UCI at a heartbeat, so do take my words with a grain of salt.


There definitely is a subtle attitude that underwrites the entire UCI Law culture, and sometimes it can bubble up and strike you the wrong way. It seems that the fast track to offending an UCI law student is to tell him, "make your case as to why UCI Law is a good school."

I think the reaction you'd get is symptomatic of how UCI considers itself. I don't think there's any doubt that something truly different is going on at UCI, and that this makes for what promises to be an excellent education. UCI knows this, and it makes the school extremely self-assured and close-knit. They know they're different, and that's all that matters to them.

I really like it, and I think it fosters a great group dynamic for students, but I can definitely see how someone saying, "clearly you don't know what's going on at UCI" can rub you the wrong way. UCI students will be very helpful and friendly in answering your questions, but will definitely not take the time to win cynics over - they fully intend for the class to be self-selective.

P.S. I'm passing up T14 for this, and it's not for the money. Although it doesn't hurt.


A thoughtful response like this from a student who will be there next year is exactly why I hope to still be accepted. Well put! I sometimes fear having to be in class with a bunch of immature TLS'ers, and I do not think that will be the case at UCI. :-) It will be unique and exciting and I wish you luck.


Oh snap!

On a side note, I want to amend my previous comment by adding that being self-assured and arrogant are not the same thing (HYS have that taken care of). Sometimes it can come across that way, certainly, but the UCI students I met were all incredibly nice and very genuine people. Even the one(s) who took the vilified position we talked about before. I really look forward to being classmates with all the people I met (~14-16 of them, the rest I did not have the pleasure of meeting yet). They all took time to talk to me and were more friendly than I thought they'd be, both to myself and each other; I sometimes forgot that I was visiting a law school.

I cheated a bit and visited on my own, so I had the entire class and all the staff to myself. I also caught them in what I hope was a more candid moment than what was going on at ASD.

giraffe28
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby giraffe28 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:26 pm

I apologize if this has been touched upon somewhere else, but as UCI is the last school I have yet to hear from and it's starting to strike a nerve I had a fairly awful realization-- I never received any sort of "application complete" from them aside from the confirmation email when I initially submitted online. Is this the norm or have I messed up somewhere?

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msch0i
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby msch0i » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:01 am

giraffe28 wrote:I apologize if this has been touched upon somewhere else, but as UCI is the last school I have yet to hear from and it's starting to strike a nerve I had a fairly awful realization-- I never received any sort of "application complete" from them aside from the confirmation email when I initially submitted online. Is this the norm or have I messed up somewhere?


Perfectly normal :D

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ruleser
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby ruleser » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:31 am

14yearplan wrote:A thoughtful response like this from a student who will be there next year is exactly why I hope to still be accepted. Well put! I sometimes fear having to be in class with a bunch of immature TLS'ers, and I do not think that will be the case at UCI. :-) It will be unique and exciting and I wish you luck.

TLSers are not so immature in person - at least the ones I met. Actually pretty cool...

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tru
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby tru » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:51 am

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HungryHippo
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby HungryHippo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:45 am

You know how they always talk about the "Calm before the storm"?




I feel it coming......

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lobstar
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby lobstar » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:22 pm

HungryHippo wrote:You know how they always talk about the "Calm before the storm"?




I feel it coming......


That's what she said :lol:

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msch0i
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby msch0i » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:58 pm

HungryHippo wrote:You know how they always talk about the "Calm before the storm"?




I feel it coming......


I hope it's an ACCEPTANCE or WAITLIST storm! :D :D :D

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jrb211
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby jrb211 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:21 pm

I got a call from a 949 number today and almost had a heart attack. It was so disappointing when it wasn't Irvine calling :(

14yearplan
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Re: UC Irvine 2013

Postby 14yearplan » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:59 pm

ruleser wrote:
14yearplan wrote:A thoughtful response like this from a student who will be there next year is exactly why I hope to still be accepted. Well put! I sometimes fear having to be in class with a bunch of immature TLS'ers, and I do not think that will be the case at UCI. :-) It will be unique and exciting and I wish you luck.

TLSers are not so immature in person - at least the ones I met. Actually pretty cool...


The immature comment was not in any way intended towards you, or anyone else who has made thoughtful comments in regards to "looking outside the box" in choosing a law school, for that matter.

Generally speaking, I find the crew in the UCI forum a more thoughtful bunch than the rest of TLS. And I think it has a lot to do with the fact that those of you who have decided to at least take a good look at UCI have been able to look past all the ranking b.s., etc., and realize the unique opportunity present there. I have simply noticed that many, many TLS'ers seem to miss the "real-world" picture when it comes to choosing a law school and I firmly believe that, from what I've noticed here, I would have a much more enjoyable experience at UCI than anywhere else. I only hope that I still get in to be a part of it all, and congratulations to those of you who have already been accepted and have decided to attend.




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