Top Law Schools

Got an endowment with mine. I emailed Meme yesterday about the status of my scholarship reconsideration, if she bumps me up significantly I will strongly consider Pitt.

just received mine too. It's nothing huge, but it's appreciated. It is enough to cover books and a little more, if anyone is wondering. I have a feeling we all received the same thing.

Scurredsitless1 wrote:

b.j. wrote:

g8t13 wrote:I am still waiting to hear back. However, I applied pretty late- mid February. I really want to get into Pitt though!

Aside from the latest issue of The New Yorker, I got nothing in the mail today. I think I might actually man up and call today. I've been in review for over a month, which isn't long, but considering other schools have processed, reviewed, and mostly rejected my applications in the same time span, I'm cautiously optimistic about Pitt.

Calling won't hurt your chances of admission, it's clearly important to you to know, call 'em. now.

So I just called and was told I am still under review. I made a joke about how no news is good news at this point, which I hope is true, and she said it wouldn't be too much longer. The paranoid side of me says she pulled up my file and "REJECT" flashed across the screen, but the tone in her voice didn't sound like she was trying to hide anything. Hopefully, I will hear soon.

Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

b.j. wrote:

Scurredsitless1 wrote:

b.j. wrote:

g8t13 wrote:I am still waiting to hear back. However, I applied pretty late- mid February. I really want to get into Pitt though!

Aside from the latest issue of The New Yorker, I got nothing in the mail today. I think I might actually man up and call today. I've been in review for over a month, which isn't long, but considering other schools have processed, reviewed, and mostly rejected my applications in the same time span, I'm cautiously optimistic about Pitt.

Calling won't hurt your chances of admission, it's clearly important to you to know, call 'em. now.

So I just called and was told I am still under review. I made a joke about how no news is good news at this point, which I hope is true, and she said it wouldn't be too much longer. The paranoid side of me says she pulled up my file and "REJECT" flashed across the screen, but the tone in her voice didn't sound like she was trying to hide anything. Hopefully, I will hear soon.

Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

+1000

Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

+1000[/quote]

The former is more of a guess by me than anything else, but the latter definitely seems to be true. In what is just more proof that I need to actually make a note of these things, I remember reading an article in either The New York Times or The Wall Street Journal about how it was selected as the location for one of those global conferences on globalization, or something like that, to showcase what happens when a city that was dependent on one faltering industry (steel) reemerges and reverses its fortunes. For more evidence, look at the fact that stores like Burberry are opening up there. Only upper echelon areas get shops like that.

b.j. wrote: Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

On this topic...I applied to Pitt on a whim and recently was accepted, but have really been impressed so far with what looks like a solid institution in an underrated city. I'm not a huge follower of the US News rankings but I did notice that the school did drop quite a bit over the last few years and was wondering if anyone knew why exactly. This is a secondary factor in my decision for sure, but I am curious.

nyjfanjmk wrote:

b.j. wrote: Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

On this topic...I applied to Pitt on a whim and recently was accepted, but have really been impressed so far with what looks like a solid institution in an underrated city. I'm not a huge follower of the US News rankings but I did notice that the school did drop quite a bit over the last few years and was wondering if anyone knew why exactly. This is a secondary factor in my decision for sure, but I am curious.

All that said -- none of the 3L's nor the 2L on the panel had anything lined up at all. Only the 1L's had jobs (and not even all of them). This worried me. I mean, maybe they weren't the top students (which is definitely possible), but they all seemed extremely frustrated. It was pretty dishartening after a great ASD (I mean, even the DePaul kids had stuff lined up). But for me, my scholarship isn't enough and I can't get in-state. If Pitt were my state school, I'd have a much stronger likelikhood of going there.

nyjfanjmk wrote:

b.j. wrote: Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

On this topic...I applied to Pitt on a whim and recently was accepted, but have really been impressed so far with what looks like a solid institution in an underrated city. I'm not a huge follower of the US News rankings but I did notice that the school did drop quite a bit over the last few years and was wondering if anyone knew why exactly. This is a secondary factor in my decision for sure, but I am curious.

I'm curious to learn more about that as well. Maybe they just decided to stop playing the US News game, sort of like Reed.

keg411 wrote:

nyjfanjmk wrote:

b.j. wrote: Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

On this topic...I applied to Pitt on a whim and recently was accepted, but have really been impressed so far with what looks like a solid institution in an underrated city. I'm not a huge follower of the US News rankings but I did notice that the school did drop quite a bit over the last few years and was wondering if anyone knew why exactly. This is a secondary factor in my decision for sure, but I am curious.

All that said -- none of the 3L's nor the 2L on the panel had anything lined up at all. Only the 1L's had jobs (and not even all of them). This worried me. I mean, maybe they weren't the top students (which is definitely possible), but they all seemed extremely frustrated. It was pretty dishartening after a great ASD (I mean, even the DePaul kids had stuff lined up). But for me, my scholarship isn't enough and I can't get in-state. If Pitt were my state school, I'd have a much stronger likelikhood of going there.

I think whatever school you go to, the job market is going to be tough. You are going to have to make yourself unique and interesting to employers. This may be with clinics, certificates, or focusing your schedules with your end game in mind.

The folks on the panel gave advice like "keep an open mind and try a wide variety classes". I thought that was terrible. They were uninteresting. They were just law students. Even if they had good grades, that was it.

Keg mentioned before that they might be from "student govt", that says to me 'stay out of student govt', it clearly does not help job prospects

It seemed to me, most of the student panel didn't have any idea what they wanted to do. It's hard enough to convince someone to hire you for the job you want. Much less for a job you're not sure you want.

Keg mentioned before that they might be from "student govt", that says to me 'stay out of student govt', it clearly does not help job prospects

I am keg .

This is the letter from the Dean about the drop in rankings.... FWIW


Dear Pitt Law Students:

Many of you may have heard that Pitt Law’s ranking in the new US
News ranking, which is being officially released today, has
dropped from 57 to 73. I know that this drop may be distressing
to some students, and that you may wonder what this means about
the School. First, let me tell what it does not mean. It does
not mean that the quality of the education that you are receiving
at Pitt Law has declined over the past year. A number of recent
accomplishments provide strong, objective evidence of the quality
of the education Pitt Law provides and the growing opportunities
available to our students. In a September 2007 national ranking
of law school faculties’ scholarly impact, Pitt Law ranked #21 –
ahead of many schools in the US News top tier – providing
objective evidence of the high quality of our faculty.
Employment figures from the past two years have shown an increase
in the percentage of our graduates accepting jobs outside of
Pennsylvania: for the class of 2006 the rate was 37.2%, and for
the class of 2007 preliminary data indicate a rate of 37%, with
students taking jobs in 24 different states. These figures
represent increases in out-of-state employment since 2004 (28.5%)
and 2005 (26.6%), and show broadening employment opportunities
for our graduates. The JURIST legal website – powered and edited
by Pitt Law students – was named a top legal blog by the ABA
Journal and in a ranking released last month was the most cited
of any blog sponsored by a law faculty member in terms of
citations in law reviews. This recognition of JURIST attests to
the School’s increasing, positive visibility within the legal
profession nationally. In addition, in the past few years we
have sustained or increased our progress in the areas of
selectivity in admissions, bar passage rates, employment rates
nine months post-graduation, and recruitment of strong faculty
members.

Don’t get me wrong – I know that there are things the School can
do better, and with your help and input, we will keep working to
improve areas where concerns exist. My point here is that it was
not a drop in the quality of the educational programming that led
to the drop in the rankings.

Instead, my preliminary readings of the rankings show that two
factors were most responsible for the drop. The first,
expenditures, is a factor that isn’t reported on any of the US
News tables. Two years ago, the ABA changed its instructions
regarding how law schools have to report expenditures, and as a
result, Pitt Law’s reported expenditures declined significantly.
This change in expenditures reporting methodology does not
reflect any change in the actual level of support we receive from
the University or the resources we invest in our programs, and it
fails to reflect the numerous benefits our students receive from
attending a law school situated in a world class university like
Pitt. Thus, with respect to this factor, a portion of the change
in our rankings is attributable to a change in external reporting
requirements, not any change in what we’re doing at the Law
School. The second factor that had an impact is the decrease in
our reputational score among judges and lawyers, which declined
from 3.3 to 2.9 (on a 5 point scale). If I were convinced that
the decrease this year reflected an actual drop in our reputation
among this group, I’d be quite concerned. That said, this year
only 26% of judges and lawyers surveyed responded, and our score
on this item has fluctuated between 3.3 and 2.8 over the past
several years. Indeed, each year since 2001 this score has
fluctuated in the range between 2.8 and 3.3, and a score of 2.9
is well within our normal variation for this factor. So while we
will keep working hard to improve Pitt Law’s reputation, I’m not
convinced this year’s drop is cause for alarm.

Notwithstanding the impression that some may take from the
recently released rankings, I am confident that the substance of
what is happening here at Pitt Law is moving in the right
direction. Even so, I do want to emphasize that I am committed
to continuing to raise the quality of the Law School and to
making sure that others in the legal world know about the good
things going on here so that the School’s rankings will improve.
Accordingly, while we will continue to focus primarily on our
educational mission, the Law School will also keep taking steps
to examine the best methods for doing a more effective job of
getting the word out more broadly to external audiences about the
high quality of the education here and of the attorneys who come
out of Pitt Law. These steps will include working with
University administrators and communications professionals, as
well as looking at what other law schools are doing to publicize
their accomplishments. We also will continue to encourage our
alumni to act as “ambassadors” for the School within the legal
profession and to explore ways in which we can support current
students in doing so as well – for example, by becoming involved
in student organizations and participating in competitions on a
national level. Through work and initiatives that contribute to
our individual success, we all can play a role in continuing to
improve the School in substantive ways that will be reflected in
the rankings.

I realize that some of you may have more questions about the
rankings, and I’ll be happy to do my best to address them. We
have scheduled a “town hall forum” for Monday, April 14, from
noon to 2 p.m. in the Teplitz Moot Courtroom, and that forum will
provide one venue for raising questions or concerns relating to
the rankings or whatever else is on your mind.

Until then, enjoy the beginnings of spring.

Best regards,
Mary Crossley
Dean

keg411 wrote:All that said -- none of the 3L's nor the 2L on the panel had anything lined up at all. Only the 1L's had jobs (and not even all of them). This worried me. I mean, maybe they weren't the top students (which is definitely possible), but they all seemed extremely frustrated. It was pretty dishartening after a great ASD (I mean, even the DePaul kids had stuff lined up). But for me, my scholarship isn't enough and I can't get in-state. If Pitt were my state school, I'd have a much stronger likelikhood of going there.

I agree that it was disheartening. However, i think it is easy to forget we are in the midst of the worst recession since the depression, and i'm not sure if the current situation is really representative of anything we'll be experiencing 5+ years into our careers. Right now all schools outside of the T14 seem to be hurting--even then i would imagine the bottom half of all classes outside of HYS are unemployed OR the T14 name gets them something, but then most of those kids probably received little to no scholarships and are staring at a huge pile of debt and pretty much needed biglaw. I think we need to be cautious of our debt and things will work itself out. I guess you also need to weigh your opportunity costs. As a poli sci major, i can take a shot at LS and come out unemployed or just definitely be unemployed right now. lol.

Also (i'm not sure why they didnt) but Pitt could have found three 1Ls, two 2Ls, and two 3Ls that all had something lined up. It's hard to say what's really going on with employment without polling everyone in attendance, let alone making a cross school comparison.

lol, just felt like typing. not my complete thoughts on the situations, but i like to think i made at least one good point.

Scurredsitless1 wrote:This is the letter from the Dean about the drop in rankings.... FWIW

That was very insightful; thanks for posting.

I have been in review since January...

Every time I call pitt law no one picks up. This is incredibly annoying.

Mail [strike]idiot[/strike] man delivered my mail to the wrong box today, and I got theirs. They aren't home. I work 3pm-11:30pm. I may kill someone.

snowpeach06 wrote:Every time I call pitt law no one picks up. This is incredibly annoying.

The first time I tried calling, that happened, but the second time, someone answered. Have you tried both numbers?

snowpeach06 wrote:Every time I call pitt law no one picks up. This is incredibly annoying.

This seems to be typical. I have two numbers of Pitt admissions people and I had to call each like 3 times a day for several days before I got an answer.

law333 wrote:I have been in review since January...

What are your numbers?

I really hope [knock on wood] that Pitt is seriously considering me and not just delaying the bad news. They've had my application in review for over a month now, and we are told no news is kind of like good news (because it means no rejection, yet) but a similar school (Villanova) already reviewed and rejected me in less than ten days, so I am not sure what to think. After all, if they wanted to reject me, why wouldn't they just do it? What's the benefit in waiting?

b.j. wrote:I really hope [knock on wood] that Pitt is seriously considering me and not just delaying the bad news. They've had my application in review for over a month now, and we are told no news is kind of like good news (because it means no rejection, yet) but a similar school (Villanova) already reviewed and rejected me in less than ten days, so I am not sure what to think. After all, if they wanted to reject me, why wouldn't they just do it? What's the benefit in waiting?

Ya see, that's the thing. There is no benefit to them whether they wait or not. It doesn't matter. Our apps could be sitting in the rejection pile but they are just waiting to send out a batch of X number rejection letters at a later date.

b.j. wrote:

snowpeach06 wrote:Every time I call pitt law no one picks up. This is incredibly annoying.

The first time I tried calling, that happened, but the second time, someone answered. Have you tried both numbers?

Yep. Almost daily. Honestly, if the law school can't even hire someone to pick up the phone, then I feel like they don't have their shit together enough for me to want to go there. It's really a simple thing.

Pitt seems like of those schools whose ranking doesn't reflect its true impact and whose surrounding area actually seems to be on the upswing, making it a pretty attractive choice. It'd be nice to go there.

I don't know if the area is really on the upswing considering Pittsburgh's population is slowly declining (literally 2nd after New Orleans; I know its in the rust belt but still) and emigration rate faltering.

Even after reading that letter from the dean, the drop in rankings bothers me.

I thought Pitt would make it rain with its endowments since I'm pretty poor but they only gave me 2k more a year.

Although I still haven't solidified my decision between Pitt or Nova, I'm looking more to Nova.

Good luck to all the Pitt law people!

nooyyllib wrote:I don't know if the area is really on the upswing considering Pittsburgh's population is slowly declining (literally 2nd after New Orleans; I know its in the rust belt but still) and emigration rate faltering.

--LinkRemoved--

Local news article from this week.

I'm not without bias, but I feel that if you're not wedded to biglaw, and if you prefer a mid-sized city with a relatively low cost of living, there's no reason to not consider the University of Pittsburgh if you're interested in studying and practicing law in the Mid-Atlantic. I'm not glossing over the concerns about career prospects; but ITE, if 1Ls, 2Ls, and 3Ls at T14s are having placement issues, it's going to be tough to find a Tier 2 school that's humming along placement-wise. (Texas is suffering less ITE ... maybe UH is an exception, but I am speculating.)

Pick the best school you can get into in your preferred market, subject to debt constraints and career goals.