Pitt 2010

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joliveri
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby joliveri » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:36 pm

im just curious whether Pitt has done this in the past where they send out waitlists via e-mail as opposed to acceptances via snail mail. I don't know if anyone can enlighten the situation?

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jack duluoz
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby jack duluoz » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:32 pm

i received my decision today. unfortunately, i am not home to read it :x , i'll let u guys know tmrw morning.

keg411
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby keg411 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:22 pm

Sent out my application a few days ago. Fingers crossed. I have family out in Western PA near Pittsburgh, so it certainly would be a bad place to go to school/live/eventually work.

jason8821
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby jason8821 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:59 am

Colton wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:Not very competitive, huh?


Seems like a good place for me to a gunner. Kidding. Maybe.

Question, how anecdotal is your 45k thing? I mean the TLS pitt thing says average salary of 95k. Is that a complete lie? Or have salaries completly plummeted? or what? Thoughts?

I'm not in it for the money, and certainly don't want big law. But I was hoping to make more in the 55-70k range.



Well, gunning isn’t going to help your grades so it’s up to you whether you want to do it or not, lol. I don’t mean to imply that the students aren’t smart or driven, they're just not going to razor-blade pages out of books or steal your laptop like you hear horror stories about.

Certainly the salary number I gave is based on a small number of people. 15-20 students that I've spoken to or I've heard talking about it, and from my meeting with career services.

As to the 95K its probably not a lie or even manipulation. You just have to understand what it really means. That’s probably just private sector, 50% of Pitt students go in to private sector jobs. So really a median private sector salary represents the 75th percentile of earners. Also, if its average and not median its even less useful because there are definitely 20 or so people making 125-160K at large firms, or going to work for their family's firm. That affects the average quite a bit. There are also, despite what many TLSers say, non-Nalp firms that pay 70-100K starting that hire new grads.

As to the salary dropping because of the economy, I don’t know, but I would guess that salary didn’t drop much, but that there are just fewer jobs. I could be wrong. The employment numbers are probably based on 08, maybe even 07. So the current market is different than those numbers, and it will be different -hopefully for the better- in 3 years.

One last thing about salary. If you start out at 50K or whatever your first year, it’s not like you'll finish there. You'll get promotions, meet more clients, become a better lawyer and as a result you'll probably make more money. I know that's a foreign concept on these boards sometimes, but believe it or not people get promotions and make more money than they did when they started. You're not going to hit your income ceiling your first year on the job.


I hope the poster who said most people they know are getting jobs at 45K is exaggerating (likely not the case). Pitt is one of my top choices, and without a scholarship I know I would easily be over 100k in student loans (Praying for to get my score up by game day). I imagine that the average student debt the 2013 or 2014 graduates will also be at or around 100k. Despite the 3-4,000 dollars paid back in LRAP for people in public interest this would be pretty rough. It would be a whole different ball game if that number was 60,000. Also I imagine that many people will be closer to that 150k point even at Pitt 2013-2014. At this rate you would be living in an apartment with a roommate for 10 years, and let's say you were on the real low end, like 35K you'd probably need Government Assistance.

I almost feel like an average salary of 95K needs to be justified. Even if 10% of people do make an average of 140,000/year out of private it seems that the average for the rest of non-big law folks would have to be $74,400 to get that number. This is assuming that we are looking at average, and that 50% works in private. Median make that low number higher. I don't understand how so many people could be making 45k coming out. It does not seem possible that this could create an average salary of 95,000. Is Pitt lying? Furthermore what about similar ranked schools like Rutgers Newark. It seems that the low end of their private attorneys are making 100k/year based on a Median Salary of 115K. This assumes that 20% (10% of overall) of private sector begins at 160K in Big law.

The saddest things here is that there WILL be a percentage of people that walk out of Pitt at 200k in debt. This may not be so bad at 95K but it could screw up the next 10 or more years of your life at 45K, especially if it's stagnant. My guess is that despite warnings about attending law school that number will be 5-10%.

I apologize for the long winded rant, but this is some very scary shit.

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jack duluoz
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby jack duluoz » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:42 am

I'm IN! 12/10.

stats: 3.4, 160.5 (obviously fudged)

good luck to everyone else!

Queenjane87
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Queenjane87 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:44 am

jack duluoz wrote:I'm IN! 12/10.

stats: 3.4, 160.5 (obviously fudged)

good luck to everyone else!



Congrats!! I wonder if the letters really did go out Tuesday. Where do you live may I ask?

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:56 am

Congrats! Thanks for the inside scoop on when they sent out the letters.

I do not live very far away at all, but our USPS service is notoriously slow. :cry:

Philaw
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Philaw » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:27 pm

jack duluoz wrote:I'm IN! 12/10.

stats: 3.4, 160.5 (obviously fudged)

good luck to everyone else!


Congratulations! I had a feeling you were in.

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jack duluoz
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby jack duluoz » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:26 pm

Queenjane87 wrote:
jack duluoz wrote:I'm IN! 12/10.

stats: 3.4, 160.5 (obviously fudged)

good luck to everyone else!



Congrats!! I wonder if the letters really did go out Tuesday. Where do you live may I ask?


i am in-state. There is a good chance the letter was sent tuesday...(i received the letter thursday afternoon)

Colton
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Colton » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:15 pm

I'm not exaggerating, but it is based on a relatively small number of students, as I said. The 2L who responded earlier would have a better idea than I do.

As to whether Rutgers-Newark or similarly ranked schools offer a higher salary, I really, really doubt it. Pitt owns Pittsburgh and western PA. Rutgers-Newark doesn’t own anything and NY metro has been hit extremely hard by the recession. Second, they're likely manipulating the numbers like most schools do. Third, what I’m seeing/hearing seems to fit pretty well with what the NALP says about salaries: http://www.nalp.org/08saldistribution 42% of grads making 40-65K. Two big salary bubbles and not a lot in between.

Full cost of attendance for out-of-state students is like 49K, assuming someone maxes out on loans they still arent walking out with 200K in loans. Not that 150K isnt a ton a money too.

burvowski
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby burvowski » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:36 pm

I'm a bit nervous. 3.22, 164, went complete 11/20 and nothing yet.

I got an email on the 1st saying my application is under review.

Philaw
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Philaw » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:45 pm

Rejection letter today, dated 12/07. Ouch. 156/3.54 URM.

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:06 am

I freaking hate the USPS.

jtgain
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby jtgain » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:05 am

burvowski wrote:I'm a bit nervous. 3.22, 164, went complete 11/20 and nothing yet.

I got an email on the 1st saying my application is under review.


Strange. I'm 3.14, 164 and I got accepted with a Dean's Scholarship....Best of luck

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jack duluoz
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby jack duluoz » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:09 am

Philaw wrote:Rejection letter today, dated 12/07. Ouch. 156/3.54 URM.


sorry, man! i am sure u will get into a good school.
good luck to u!!

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:24 pm

jason8821 wrote:
Colton wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:Not very competitive, huh?


Seems like a good place for me to a gunner. Kidding. Maybe.

Question, how anecdotal is your 45k thing? I mean the TLS pitt thing says average salary of 95k. Is that a complete lie? Or have salaries completly plummeted? or what? Thoughts?

I'm not in it for the money, and certainly don't want big law. But I was hoping to make more in the 55-70k range.



Well, gunning isn’t going to help your grades so it’s up to you whether you want to do it or not, lol. I don’t mean to imply that the students aren’t smart or driven, they're just not going to razor-blade pages out of books or steal your laptop like you hear horror stories about.

Certainly the salary number I gave is based on a small number of people. 15-20 students that I've spoken to or I've heard talking about it, and from my meeting with career services.

As to the 95K its probably not a lie or even manipulation. You just have to understand what it really means. That’s probably just private sector, 50% of Pitt students go in to private sector jobs. So really a median private sector salary represents the 75th percentile of earners. Also, if its average and not median its even less useful because there are definitely 20 or so people making 125-160K at large firms, or going to work for their family's firm. That affects the average quite a bit. There are also, despite what many TLSers say, non-Nalp firms that pay 70-100K starting that hire new grads.

As to the salary dropping because of the economy, I don’t know, but I would guess that salary didn’t drop much, but that there are just fewer jobs. I could be wrong. The employment numbers are probably based on 08, maybe even 07. So the current market is different than those numbers, and it will be different -hopefully for the better- in 3 years.

One last thing about salary. If you start out at 50K or whatever your first year, it’s not like you'll finish there. You'll get promotions, meet more clients, become a better lawyer and as a result you'll probably make more money. I know that's a foreign concept on these boards sometimes, but believe it or not people get promotions and make more money than they did when they started. You're not going to hit your income ceiling your first year on the job.


I hope the poster who said most people they know are getting jobs at 45K is exaggerating (likely not the case). Pitt is one of my top choices, and without a scholarship I know I would easily be over 100k in student loans (Praying for to get my score up by game day). I imagine that the average student debt the 2013 or 2014 graduates will also be at or around 100k. Despite the 3-4,000 dollars paid back in LRAP for people in public interest this would be pretty rough. It would be a whole different ball game if that number was 60,000. Also I imagine that many people will be closer to that 150k point even at Pitt 2013-2014. At this rate you would be living in an apartment with a roommate for 10 years, and let's say you were on the real low end, like 35K you'd probably need Government Assistance.

I almost feel like an average salary of 95K needs to be justified. Even if 10% of people do make an average of 140,000/year out of private it seems that the average for the rest of non-big law folks would have to be $74,400 to get that number. This is assuming that we are looking at average, and that 50% works in private. Median make that low number higher. I don't understand how so many people could be making 45k coming out. It does not seem possible that this could create an average salary of 95,000. Is Pitt lying? Furthermore what about similar ranked schools like Rutgers Newark. It seems that the low end of their private attorneys are making 100k/year based on a Median Salary of 115K. This assumes that 20% (10% of overall) of private sector begins at 160K in Big law.

The saddest things here is that there WILL be a percentage of people that walk out of Pitt at 200k in debt. This may not be so bad at 95K but it could screw up the next 10 or more years of your life at 45K, especially if it's stagnant. My guess is that despite warnings about attending law school that number will be 5-10%.

I apologize for the long winded rant, but this is some very scary shit.


Okay. Calm down (although I've had similar posts in this thread and similar thoughts in my head). This is the way I see it. 95K= median private sector salary (50% reporting). I think its fairly safe to say that those are the top 50%. Therefore, 25% of people that go into private sector have to be making 95k or more or else those numbers are straight up lying.

So I think if you work hard, make connections etc you'll be fine. On the other hand, like the Pitt student said, these are medians... so the distribution could be like

45k, 45k, 50k, 95k, 120k, 120k, 140k. So a median of 95k, with a lost of students making near near 40k (with a hypothetical class of 7=) ).

In the end though, in my opinion, Pitt has connections to a good market, in a place with a cheap cost of living. Work hard, finish near the top, and you'll be fine. And like the Pitt student said, even if you come out with 45k, thats not your permanent salary. So chill, and go to pitt!! wooties!

reverendt
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:56 am

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby reverendt » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Colton wrote:I'm not exaggerating, but it is based on a relatively small number of students, as I said. The 2L who responded earlier would have a better idea than I do.

Honestly I don't know if that's inflated or not.
I think the issue right now is that Biglaw is pretty dried up, so many of the top students who would be taking the biglaw jobs are taking the mid-law jobs (where those, like myself, in the top 1/3 or so would be looking.)
This, in turn, is driving us down to the 45K - 60K smaller firm jobs. That's pretty much what career services is telling us right now. They've pretty much said that biglaw is pretty bunk right now, it will get better but for now, set your sights lower.
This problem is not about law, and certainly not about Pitt. Trying to get a job or start a career in almost any field right now is not easy. And it will turn around....it always does.
Those of you applying now won't be looking for a post-grad job for three years, so the situation now is probably not very relevant to the situation then.

burvowski
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:13 pm

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby burvowski » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:51 pm

jtgain wrote:
burvowski wrote:I'm a bit nervous. 3.22, 164, went complete 11/20 and nothing yet.

I got an email on the 1st saying my application is under review.


Strange. I'm 3.14, 164 and I got accepted with a Dean's Scholarship....Best of luck


Yeah, I was pretty confident but I feel like it's taking longer than it should be :(

Nikiya
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Nikiya » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:46 pm

burvowski wrote:
jtgain wrote:
burvowski wrote:I'm a bit nervous. 3.22, 164, went complete 11/20 and nothing yet.

I got an email on the 1st saying my application is under review.


Strange. I'm 3.14, 164 and I got accepted with a Dean's Scholarship....Best of luck


Yeah, I was pretty confident but I feel like it's taking longer than it should be :(


I definitely wouldn't worry!
Last edited by Nikiya on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Philaw
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:49 pm

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Philaw » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:30 pm

jack duluoz wrote:
Philaw wrote:Rejection letter today, dated 12/07. Ouch. 156/3.54 URM.


sorry, man! i am sure u will get into a good school.
good luck to u!!


Thanks, I certainly hope so. This cycle has been rough for me. I was truly looking forward to Pitt, too. Congratulations on your acceptance though. Is that a Kingpin reference on the avatar?

jason8821
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:42 am

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby jason8821 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:07 pm

Colton wrote:I'm not exaggerating, but it is based on a relatively small number of students, as I said. The 2L who responded earlier would have a better idea than I do.

As to whether Rutgers-Newark or similarly ranked schools offer a higher salary, I really, really doubt it. Pitt owns Pittsburgh and western PA. Rutgers-Newark doesn’t own anything and NY metro has been hit extremely hard by the recession. Second, they're likely manipulating the numbers like most schools do. Third, what I’m seeing/hearing seems to fit pretty well with what the NALP says about salaries: http://www.nalp.org/08saldistribution 42% of grads making 40-65K. Two big salary bubbles and not a lot in between.

Full cost of attendance for out-of-state students is like 49K, assuming someone maxes out on loans they still arent walking out with 200K in loans. Not that 150K isnt a ton a money too.



I don't think 150K would have been a lot to walk out with had things been like they were a couple years ago, but it would definitely be rougher now, unless of course you did start out at 75K plus, than it would be more than manageable. The problem is that some people may not be considering undergraduate debt. An undergrad debt of 50K plus is extremely popular now. Despite the claim that the average student walks out with 23K or whatever, that's getting worse, and it doesn't always account for every private loan. I went to an expensive school, and although I have a few lucky friends who have their education paid in full, the median undergrad debt it probably more like 40k. That said, It would definitely be possible for an out of stater at Pitt to walk out over 200k. This is unless there is some sort of cap on it.

However, it is comforting to know that many of those on the lower end will probably climb the latter fairly quickly in legal market that Pitt does own, and the cost of living in Western PA/Oakland area is extremely low when compared with other major cities.

fedtaxed
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:39 pm

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby fedtaxed » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:46 pm

Does anyone know how long Pitt generally takes with its decisions? LSN doesn't have that many people posting numbers for Pitt, so I'm not sure that it gives an accurate idea. I submitted on 11/12 & got the email that the application was going to the reviewers over 2 weeks ago. How long will this process take?

burvowski
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:13 pm

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby burvowski » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:16 pm

It seems to be taking a while.

Scurredsitless1
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Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Scurredsitless1 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:38 am

.
Last edited by Scurredsitless1 on Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Queenjane87
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:51 pm

Re: Pitt 2010

Postby Queenjane87 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:41 am

Congrats!! Did you get the letter today? Are you in PA?




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