Univ. of Richmond

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jjinva
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby jjinva » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:51 am

crysmissmichelle wrote:Is there a difference in the letter between priority and regular wait list?


My letter didn't mention anything about a priority list. So I assume I'm on the "hahaha lets string them along" wait list.

Just said they need to keep the enrollment to 155 people and therefore they are being super-selective.

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oberlin08
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby oberlin08 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:53 am

jjinva wrote:
crysmissmichelle wrote:Is there a difference in the letter between priority and regular wait list?


My letter didn't mention anything about a priority list. So I assume I'm on the "hahaha lets string them along" wait list.

Just said they need to keep the enrollment to 155 people and therefore they are being super-selective.



I haven't heard back yet, but I'm assuming im a long shot because each class is so small (155 or so). I hope i can even get on the string them along WL lol

jackson1
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby jackson1 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:10 pm

There is a difference. Some people are placed on the Priority Wait List and some are on the regular one. As accepted people let them know they aren't attending U of R, they begin admitting those on the priority wait list... when they're through, they move on to the regular one. It's much more difficult to get in off of the regular wait list.

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APHill
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby APHill » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:15 pm

oberlin08 wrote:Hey APHill, so you have to peruse TLS to evaluate the cost benefit value of a school?

That statement doesnt make much sense - a small percentage of law school applicants in general make it to TLS. And a smaller percentage of people actually post on TLS.


well, maybe not necessarily, but it certainly helped me. UofR in general is a very good school - top 30 overall undergrad, top 15 undergrad b-school, etc. But its law school is underrated due to some reason, not necessarily because of quality of education but probably because of size. Unfortunately, that has a huge impact on employment prospects. I live in Richmond and all of the people I know who went to UR LS are public defenders making 45K. It is not bad by itself, but gets kind of crappy with 120K debt and no public interest loan forgiveness program.

Not trying to crap on UR, as if I could not score well on LSAT thats the area school I would go to without any reserve, but browsing boards and posting helped me make a decision to withdraw at UR and pursue alternative, more lucrative (in terms of job prospects) offer of admission.

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dibs
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby dibs » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:34 pm

APHill wrote:Just kidding, guys, I was trying to say that there are a bunch of threads and posts about other schools (e.g. Seton Hall) but very few on UofR. So I guess UofR applicants do not peruse these boards a lot, meaning they do not evaluate cost -benefit of going to school like UofR before matriculating.


you can't infer meaning based on an assumption. perhaps they do their cost-benefit analysis elsewhere. perhaps in an environment that isn't rife with people who think they know everything.

anyways, i am going through a very detailed cost-benefit right now. TLS is a self-selected population, as are most law student forums, and opinions on job prospects are not enough to sway me one way or another. aside from all the other quantitative analysis, it's in everyone's best interest to visit the area and talk to firms and corporations.

people who advocate deficinies based on hearsay are just spreading fear and panic. you are doing a disservice to your fellow students.

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APHill
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby APHill » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:40 pm

it is in fact a self selected population but based on my expereince it appears to have students with all different backgrounds going to a wide range of law schools. And feeling fear and panic is a lot better before you have gone through 3 years of lost earnings plus 120K in debt and no job in sight, than after - I think it is a great service to fellow students.

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dibs
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby dibs » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:46 pm

APHill wrote:it is in fact a self selected population but based on my expereince it appears to have students with all different backgrounds going to a wide range of law schools. And feeling fear and panic is a lot better before you have gone through 3 years of lost earnings plus 120K in debt and no job in sight, than after - I think it is a great service to fellow students.


in your experience? what experience? browsing internet forums?

the bottom line is that your performance at law school, and not the law school itself, will determine how well you do in the future. "no job in sight" in misleading, as is "no job prospects". you are just pandering to insecurity and trying to appeal to your own authority (which doesn't exist).

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APHill
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby APHill » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:54 pm

yes, my expereince browsing forums. At a forum where you have 'In at Harvard' thread and 'In At Souhtwestern' thread plus everything in between being constantly updated - you know you have a decent population to evaluate. maybe not perfect, but as accurate as any online forum will get.

As far as performance is concerned - your performance will be curved against similarly ambitious and hard-working students, and at UofR you have to be on the very top of the pile to be a competitive job candidate. It is like telling Christians being tossed into the lion den that their well being will depend solely on their performance....

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dibs
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby dibs » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:03 pm

APHill wrote:yes, my expereince browsing forums. At a forum where you have 'In at Harvard' thread and 'In At Souhtwestern' thread plus everything in between being constantly updated - you know you have a decent population to evaluate. maybe not perfect, but as accurate as any online forum will get.

As far as performance is concerned - your performance will be curved against similarly ambitious and hard-working students, and at UofR you have to be on the very top of the pile to be a competitive job candidate. It is like telling Christians being tossed into the lion den that their well being will depend solely on their performance....


you are going to be curved against students whereever you go, regardless of the institution. are you implying that you can slack off and do terrible at a top30 school and be more competetive than a top candidate at a top70 school?

".. as accurate as any online forum will get." this is the problem. the accuracy of online forums is suspect at best, especially when considering a forum which is top heavy with gunners and those who know about it / care about it. there are many resources for analysis out there, not all of them in forum format and not all of them online.

richmond is not the only under-represented school on this forum and it cannot be assumed that it is because the students "don't do their homework". it also doesn't intrinsically imply that job prospects are shit. i'm not sure what you're basing that on other than common perception. at the end of the day it may be true, NOW, that there are fewer opportunities.

however, no one can accurately predict the state of the market 3 years from now and nobody can accurately predict an variable amount of intangibles. that alone should lead you to use selection criteria weighted on other merits. the current job prospects is neither accurate or current enough to be very useful.

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APHill
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby APHill » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:13 pm

you CAN slack off at T30 school way more than you can slack off at T80 school. Top 5% (5 years ago, now or 5 years forward probably) at UR will be competitive job candidates. That number at UVA is closer to to 40-50%.

The greatest paradox of the legal education in the US is that the less respectable law school you go to, the harder the educational process is. Harvard/Yale are pass/fail, no real class rank, everone is relaxed. On the other hand, at Seton Hall there is some serious throatcutting going on among students trying to get that Cravath SA position.

AirenAdamonis
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby AirenAdamonis » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:16 pm

Got a letter today...Placed on the "very special priority waitlist" ....keeping my fingers crossed that i get in! I visited a few weeks ago and fell in love.

mailmanstalker
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby mailmanstalker » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:19 pm

AirenAdamonis wrote:Got a letter today...Placed on the "very special priority waitlist" ....keeping my fingers crossed that i get in! I visited a few weeks ago and fell in love.

why did you like it? Im visiting tomorrow!

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dibs
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby dibs » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:19 pm

APHill wrote:you CAN slack off at T30 school way more than you can slack off at T80 school. Top 5% (5 years ago, now or 5 years forward probably) at UR will be competitive job candidates. That number at UVA is closer to to 40-50%.

The greatest paradox of the legal education in the US is that the less respectable law school you go to, the harder the educational process is. Harvard/Yale are pass/fail, no real class rank, everone is relaxed. On the other hand, at Seton Hall there is some serious throatcutting going on among students trying to get that Cravath SA position.


this is the biggest obstacle facing my matriculation down south. it is simply impossible for me to justify US tuition when law educations revolve around a ridiculous caste system, where pedigree is everything.

perhaps it is my canadian optimism which is rejecting the idea that someone can't do well wherever they go. the schools up here are virtually the same in terms of quality education and most would fall within the US TOP50 (i'm assuming that).

if i get accepted to a canadian school i would certainly have a debate on my hands.

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dibs
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby dibs » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:22 pm

mailmanstalker wrote:
AirenAdamonis wrote:Got a letter today...Placed on the "very special priority waitlist" ....keeping my fingers crossed that i get in! I visited a few weeks ago and fell in love.

why did you like it? Im visiting tomorrow!


i'm going to come down on may 20, 21, 22. dean rahman mentioned that may 21 is deposited students day. is that right?

BlueHeel
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby BlueHeel » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:03 pm

Did anyone with a waitlist or reject still receive the multitude of mailings from the law school? I haven't heard a decision yet, but I have gotten so much solicitation and mailings from them I wasn't sure if they did that to everyone that applied regardless of standing, or not. I am sure that's the case, but it kind of seems like a waste to send all those products to someone who they end up rejecting.

jjinva
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby jjinva » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:06 pm

I got lots of pretty postcards, still do, but they waitlisted me. Not even on the VIP list either. They are a private school in the South....they like to make pretty pictures and send them out. ;)

mailmanstalker
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby mailmanstalker » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:16 pm

jjinva wrote:I got lots of pretty postcards, still do, but they waitlisted me. Not even on the VIP list either. They are a private school in the South....they like to make pretty pictures and send them out. ;)
Last edited by mailmanstalker on Mon May 10, 2010 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AirenAdamonis
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby AirenAdamonis » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:53 pm

mailmanstalker wrote:
AirenAdamonis wrote:Got a letter today...Placed on the "very special priority waitlist" ....keeping my fingers crossed that i get in! I visited a few weeks ago and fell in love.

why did you like it? Im visiting tomorrow!



The campus, although it is pretty small compared to what I'm used to (I go to Virginia Tech), is really pretty and impressive. Not to mention that everyone there was extremely nice and professors were coming out of their offices to speak with us. It seems like everyone is happy to be there. The city of Richmond is a really fun place to live as well!

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APHill
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby APHill » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:03 pm

[

perhaps it is my canadian optimism which is rejecting the idea that someone can't do well wherever they go. the schools up here are virtually the same in terms of quality education and most would fall within the US TOP50 (i'm assuming that).

if i get accepted to a canadian school i would certainly have a debate on my hands.[/quote]

You are absolutely right, sir. It is a caste system. The law school you go to is branded into your forehead until the day you die, pretty much no matter what you do. That is why I decided to forgo John Marshall Scholars to pay 75% tuition at Top 30. Full tuition at a lower ranked school is always nice, especially when it includes room and board (not the case with UR, just an example). But you gotta keep in mind that you will most likely be unemployed law grad with no debt, while your peers from T10-T30 with 200K in debt will have 200k a year jobs.

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Its on Seabass
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby Its on Seabass » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:25 pm

Priority Waitlisted today. 3.21 161

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apper123
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:39 pm

mailmanstalker wrote:
AirenAdamonis wrote:Got a letter today...Placed on the "very special priority waitlist" ....keeping my fingers crossed that i get in! I visited a few weeks ago and fell in love.

why did you like it? Im visiting tomorrow!

Will you be sitting in on a class?

KennyG
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby KennyG » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:44 pm

Has anyone seen any employment statistics for class of 2008 yet? If so can someone point me in that direction?

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apper123
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:50 pm

I only skimmed his posts, but I, in general, disagree with most of what APHill is saying ITT. First of all, he lumps T30 and T14 schools together, which is incorrect. He also assumes you can get a "200k/yr job" out of a T30 like it's nothing. This simply isn't true. It is extremely difficult for T30 grads out there right now, and I'd say even within the top 1/3 of their class they are still struggling to get BigLaw jobs. And 200k/yr is an inaccurate figure for any first year associate, unless you are looking at the bonus situations as they were in 2006.

$$$$$ at UR vs. a T14 is one thing (but still not an easy decision)... $$$$$ at UR vs. a T30 is something entirely different.

I turned down a T30 school (got in off waitlist) to attend UR with $$ less than what a JM scholar gets (but still fairly significant). I do not regret it in the slightest bit.

And more than the top 5 % at UR are going to be competitive in the BigLaw market. Saying it is limited to top 5 % is, again, simply a false statement.

hoops2669
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby hoops2669 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:54 pm

Does it specifically say "Priority Waitlist" on the letter? Got an overly happy letter today saying they were pleased to have me on waitlist. Anyone know if this is priority or not?

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apper123
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Re: Univ. of Richmond

Postby apper123 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:56 pm

When you are making a decision to attend a school, you need to consider the following factors:

1) Where do you want to work?

If you do not want to work in Richmond or the VA area (MD/DC/WV and PA/MD to a lesser extent), UR might not be the school for you. If your dream job is in New York, I'd recommend looking at Cardozo, Brooklyn, etc. I do, however, have a friend here at UR who wants to work in NY and secured himself an impressive 1L internship in the city this summer. It's certainly not impossible.

Outside of the top "national schools," most schools are simply regional schools. Some schools have further reach than others. Pick one that will reach into the geographic region you want to work in. Of course it is possible to work anywhere with a degree from anywhere, it just entails a higher degree of difficulty in securing the position.

2) What do you want to do?

If you do not want to do BigLaw, then you may very well be better off taking the money at a lower ranked school. If you wanted to do public interest work in Richmond, then you would be a fool to turn down significant $$ here for a school ranked only moderately higher.

If you do want BigLaw, attending UR certainly does not remove that option for you. UR has placed well in Richmond BigLaw firms and also places fairly well in DC. I don't know the exact stats, but I encourage you to research them. Anyone who says you won't be competitive for BigLaw out of UR does not know what he or she is talking about. You will have to be top of your class, yes, but saying you must be top 5% is inaccurate.

3) How risk averse are you?

How debt averse are you is probably a better question. Will the stress of massive amounts of debt sitting over your head cause you significant problems in life? If so, I'd consider avoiding that scenario.

4) How will I fit in at this school? Does this school fit me?

Consider the type of student population, location and size of the school. UR is like a family and is a very small school. The students are friendly and helpful, and there is no cutthroat competitive pressure. Would you feel comfortable in that situation? Some people don't like being in a small school. I'll be honest: sometimes it can smell of high school when it comes to social dynamics, but I actually enjoy that. Others may not.

Would you feel more comfortable being in a large school that's more of an industrial feel? You'd just be a face in the crowd. Some people like that. I can understand why. That wasn't for me.




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