Washington and Lee

[sailgclass]

I hope you left him somewhere funny. The library of the law school perhaps? Could have been interesting when students started to come in to study on Sunday.

By the time we were done the early birds might have been in there already.

[statuscheckerssuck]

Where ever he woke up, it was to some pretty old school sharpy doodles all over his face thanks to the current students.

Well played.

[jmhendri]

Where ever he woke up, it was to some pretty old school sharpy doodles all over his face thanks to the current students.

Well played.

I kinda hope it didn't scare him off from attending..... he was really funny.

[fathergoose]

Haha I'm really not sure what happened to him. I know we got him downstairs at one point but I don't recall him getting into the cab/busted up volvo. And if I remember correctly I think our host branded him with a sharpie version of the W&L logo. High comedy. I also don't know if there could have been four more outrageous characters than the students who were there Sat night. Go ahead and throw in blonde 2L from the dinner table in the group too. Who needs to go to the theater when you've got those people to entertain you.

And I'm really torn on where to go now. Damn W&L for having such an awesome ASW. I think I'm going to let it simmer for a week and then try and make a decision.

And if you wouldn't mind throwing it in the mail that'd be awesome. I'll get you my address.

[Bobalou]

.

[goingoingone]

I may get a lot of flack for this but...
Is there anyone else that's been reading this thread for the past few weeks that has been completely turned off by the reports from the ASWs? It seems like there's minor mention of things like the 3L program and job prospects and much more space devoted to talk of beer pong and drinking games. Dont get me wrong, its great to hear about the great impressions that everyone has been having and it sounds pretty unanimous, I guess I just worry about people making a huge decision based on the quality of the party.
Thoughts?

The reason I went to ASW (and the reason why I think a lot of others did as well) was to see if I thought I could live in Lexington. Yes, I was grateful to hear all of the reassuring things about the 3L program and job prospects and classes, but for me, the highlight was realizing how much I liked the attitude of the students. Is that my #1 concern for choosing a law school? No, but it's not something that you can't read on any law school profile either.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I may get a lot of flack for this but...
Is there anyone else that's been reading this thread for the past few weeks that has been completely turned off by the reports from the ASWs? It seems like there's minor mention of things like the 3L program and job prospects and much more space devoted to talk of beer pong and drinking games. Dont get me wrong, its great to hear about the great impressions that everyone has been having and it sounds pretty unanimous, I guess I just worry about people making a huge decision based on the quality of the party.
Thoughts?

I'm assuming you didn't go to one of the ASWs. People party. It's Lexington, Virgina, a town of 7,000 residents and 3,500 college students(/cadets). There's not exactly a ton to do. That said, I think the reason everyone is discussing the more extracurricular events is that the vibe at the school (at least at the ASW I went to) was great and put everyone at ease. There was plenty of talk of academics on Saturday (a great deal of it specifically regarding the 3rd year program). I had a great time, and I didn't go out as I hate drinking to excess. I don't think anyone is actually making a decision based on the beer pong aptitude of fellow potential classmates or that of current 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls. To be honest, however, I think that when you are considering a school as extraordinarily small as W&L, one of the most important aspects is the feeling of the LS community. As soon as I got back, I withdrew my applications/acceptances from the bigger schools on my list because I realized that the size of the school is a major component in creating that feel. I suppose my point is that even though I didn't partake in much of the revelry, I like that so many others did and had such a great time. It says a lot about the school and a lot about the Class of 2013.

If you have any questions regarding the more substantive parts of the ASWs, feel free to ask away.

[dk8]

I may get a lot of flack for this but...
Is there anyone else that's been reading this thread for the past few weeks that has been completely turned off by the reports from the ASWs? It seems like there's minor mention of things like the 3L program and job prospects and much more space devoted to talk of beer pong and drinking games. Dont get me wrong, its great to hear about the great impressions that everyone has been having and it sounds pretty unanimous, I guess I just worry about people making a huge decision based on the quality of the party.
Thoughts?

For the most part, law hiring operates off of prestige/reputation. That's the reason people get laughed at when they come on here talking about School X's international law/save the whales law program or this or that. Outside of employment prospects, quality of life is the most important factor in where you go to school in my opinion. This is especially true if you are deciding on whether or not to go to school in Lexington, which is in the middle of nowhere. As it turns out, many law students are still young and like to enjoy themselves on the weekends. If you're not in to that kind of thing I'm sure you will have no problem laying low and relaxing in Lexington.

I'm not trying to say the 3L program is analogous to School X's meaningless international law ranking. The 3L program at W&L is very unique and original and I think it's important that a student be on board with what it has to offer before going to W&L. I think it will have a positive effect on employment prospects (I don't see how hands on experience can be a negative), but it's not going to suddenly bump it up a tier in hiring or anything like that. If you went to the ASW then you've heard alot about it.

This was a roundabout way of me saying that I don't find it to be troubling. I think most of the people on this thread have already decided to go there (I haven't btw), know about where W&L stands in terms of employment (or as much as we can know ITE) and were excited to find out that they can actually have fun in Lex. I mean the ASW did just happen last weekend. But I can understand where you are coming from.

[Bobalou]

.

[fathergoose]

I didn't mean to give the wrong impression. I was totally blown away by W&L even excluding Fri/Sat night.

For example:
1. The honor system. You can legitimately leave your laptop out in your carrel and know it's safe. I love that students can get food from the cafeteria when it's closed with it given they will pay for it when it opens. I like that there isn't an honor "code", there aren't specific dos and donts. If your peers decide you've violated the spirit of the honor system, you're out, period.

2. The 3rd year program. They have a ton of practiums and clinics to choose from which is nice, but the awesome part is that it sounds that if you can find an externship opportunity any where in the world or really want a specific type of practicum, W&L will bend over backwards and go the extra mile to make it happen.

3. Class size. It sounds like you can just walk into a professors office whenever you want and ask questions. The "Big" classroom where they said most of your section classes in, is maybe 60 seats? It just seems like a very cerebral and academic environment.

4. Facilities. Yes the building may be circa 1970 but I like it. The carrel areas were a huge plus for me. The classrooms all had floor to ceilings windows on the outside wall which livened up the rooms to a surprising degree.

5. Lexington. I was surprised how pretty the town is. Rolling hills, a ravine that runs through campus with a lord of the rings style footbridge, mountains in the distance. I also stumped on a great jogging trail through the woods.

6. The people. From Brent to the crazy haired career service lady to the students, everybody was very laid back and genuine. 1L is going to be very stressful and I think it's important to be around calming influences.

Yes we went out and had fun but nobody in their right mind will make a 3 year 100k investment based on partying. We are no longer in UG. I think all the posts were out of relief that Lexington didn't live up to our worst pre conceived notions about small towns.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I didn't mean to give the wrong impression. I was totally blown away by W&L even excluding Fri/Sat night.

For example:
1. The honor system. You can legitimately leave your laptop out in your carrel and know it's safe. I love that students can get food from the cafeteria when it's closed with it given they will pay for it when it opens. I like that there isn't an honor "code", there aren't specific dos and donts. If your peers decide you've violated the spirit of the honor system, you're out, period.

2. The 3rd year program. They have a ton of practiums and clinics to choose from which is nice, but the awesome part is that it sounds that if you can find an externship opportunity any where in the world or really want a specific type of practicum, W&L will bend over backwards and go the extra mile to make it happen.

3. Class size. It sounds like you can just walk into a professors office whenever you want and ask questions. The "Big" classroom where they said most of your section classes in, is maybe 60 seats? It just seems like a very cerebral and academic environment.

4. Facilities. Yes the building may be circa 1970 but I like it. The carrel areas were a huge plus for me. The classrooms all had floor to ceilings windows on the outside wall which livened up the rooms to a surprising degree.

5. Lexington. I was surprised how pretty the town is. Rolling hills, a ravine that runs through campus with a lord of the rings style footbridge, mountains in the distance. I also stumped on a great jogging trail through the woods.

6. The people. From Brent to the crazy haired career service lady to the students, everybody was very laid back and genuine. 1L is going to be very stressful and I think it's important to be around calming influences.

Yes we went out and had fun but nobody in their right mind will make a 3 year 100k investment based on partying. We are no longer in UG. I think all the posts were out of relief that Lexington didn't live up to our worst pre conceived notions about small towns.

+1 to absolutely all of this, especially the uncodified honor code.

[Headybrah]

I thought the honor code was codified...

also, can anyone elaborate on career prospects?

glad you all had fun!
Small schools in the middle of no where seem to breed fun!

and great academic communities...

[Thomas Jefferson]

I thought the honor code was codified...

If I recall correctly, the honor code is indeed uncodified, and violations are acts that "betray the trust of the community," i.e., "to lie, cheat, or steal." I believe those were the precise words I heard more than one person use at ASW.

[sailgclass]

To add to what has been said, my take away from the weekend concerning the 3L program is that it is not that radical of a change. They already had clinics at the school, and the business law practicum (according to the business law professor) was just a course he had been teaching for years that they changed the name to a practicum. I think what changed was the outlook from teaching legal scholars to training lawyers. They also place more focus on real world experience. (Which is precisely what my undergrad WPI did.)

They spoke very highly of their alumni and how dedicated they are. My postgrad employment concerns where dealt with in very neat manner, I ran into a BigLaw attorney (W&L grad) from my home market, who was in Lexington for the weekend. He assured me that they did in fact recruit W&L grads and that I wouldn't have trouble finding a job where I want one. That solved that for me.

I also think that a big part of W&L is fitting in there. Maybe that's why they encourage people to visit, when you do, you'll know if you click. I hope that one guy doesn't click though. You know who I'm talking about

[jmhendri]

The 3L clinics sounded pretty great too... even if I didn't get to go to serbia with the transnational clinic, the black lung clinic sounded like it offered off the charts real world experience. Students get to actually argue in front of the 4th circuit court of appeals!!! I know practicing associates with less trial experience. Even the tax clinic sounded like it could be super beneficial, with all the face to face client interaction. I think employers are going to respond really well to it all.

Also... yeaaaahhhh, that guy. At least he inspired a dueling society.

[Bobalou]

Current Status: Decision reached; notification pending.
Current Status Date: 4/6/2010
Letter of Decision Mailed 04/06/2010

Finally, WAHOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[Bobalou]

Aaaaaaaaand, just got the reject email.

[statuscheckerssuck]

To add to what has been said, my take away from the weekend concerning the 3L program is that it is not that radical of a change. They already had clinics at the school, and the business law practicum (according to the business law professor) was just a course he had been teaching for years that they changed the name to a practicum. I think what changed was the outlook from teaching legal scholars to training lawyers. They also place more focus on real world experience. (Which is precisely what my undergrad WPI did.)

They spoke very highly of their alumni and how dedicated they are. My postgrad employment concerns where dealt with in very neat manner, I ran into a BigLaw attorney (W&L grad) from my home market, who was in Lexington for the weekend. He assured me that they did in fact recruit W&L grads and that I wouldn't have trouble finding a job where I want one. That solved that for me.

I also think that a big part of W&L is fitting in there. Maybe that's why they encourage people to visit, when you do, you'll know if you click. I hope that one guy doesn't click though. You know who I'm talking about

Are you talking about who I think you are talking about? lol

[Doodsmack]

I'm probably going to put my deposit down at W&L in the next couple days, however in looking at their list of employers interviewing in Fall 2009 it kind of surprised me how small it is:

http://law.wlu.edu/deptimages/Career%20 ... loyers.pdf

Are those really the only employers who interviewed at W&L? They weren't even all on-campus (some in Charlottesville). By contrast, the list I got from George Mason is 5.5 pages long (although it's not a list of interviewing employers, it's a list of employers "recently hiring Mason Law students and graduates"). Is there some place to find lists of employers doing OCI at each law school?

[jmhendri]

I'm probably going to put my deposit down at W&L in the next couple days, however in looking at their list of employers interviewing in Fall 2009 it kind of surprised me how small it is:

http://law.wlu.edu/deptimages/Career%20 ... loyers.pdf

Are those really the only employers who interviewed at W&L? They weren't even all on-campus (some in Charlottesville). By contrast, the list I got from George Mason is 5.5 pages long (although it's not a list of interviewing employers, it's a list of employers "recently hiring Mason Law students and graduates"). Is there some place to find lists of employers doing OCI at each law school?

Talking to the current 2Ls and 3Ls, most of them didn't utilize OCI at all to find their summer/post grad work. The people I talked to said they didn't even know many others who did. From what I gather, it's really all about networking your ass off. But I did hear one guy say he got an offer from OCI, but he ended up accepting with a firm he found through other channels.

[nol607]

so then do we assume that the ~11 who went to NYC were able to do so with a combination of superior grades and connections? I'm concerned that with the low OCI I'd be stuck in VA. Who exactly gets to work in NYC/DC- is it the very top of the class?

[Spaceman Spiff]

The 3L clinics sounded pretty great too... even if I didn't get to go to serbia with the transnational clinic, the black lung clinic sounded like it offered off the charts real world experience. Students get to actually argue in front of the 4th circuit court of appeals!!! I know practicing associates with less trial experience. Even the tax clinic sounded like it could be super beneficial, with all the face to face client interaction. I think employers are going to respond really well to it all.

Also... yeaaaahhhh, that guy. At least he inspired a dueling society.

Just to be clear, they said that's relatively rare, like once every few years. Also, I would think that the Virginia Capital Case Clearinghouse cases are more likely to end up in the 4th Circuit. Of course, whether you get to go to the COA or not, the clinics sound pretty cool.

[jmhendri]

so then do we assume that the ~11 who went to NYC were able to do so with a combination of superior grades and connections? I'm concerned that with the low OCI I'd be stuck in VA. Who exactly gets to work in NYC/DC- is it the very top of the class?

Again, just from what I gather, yes. Those with good grades and good networking skills get the big jobs in DC and New York. However, networking is supposed to be surprisingly easy coming from W&L considering how alumnus are so incredibly willing and wanting to hire fellow alum. I think with a little determination and grit you should be able to practice almost where ever you want (including the west coast)... you just might have a harder time finding the combination of one of those fabled cushy 150,000+ big law jobs AND the large metropolitan city you want.

The 3L clinics sounded pretty great too... even if I didn't get to go to serbia with the transnational clinic, the black lung clinic sounded like it offered off the charts real world experience. Students get to actually argue in front of the 4th circuit court of appeals!!! I know practicing associates with less trial experience. Even the tax clinic sounded like it could be super beneficial, with all the face to face client interaction. I think employers are going to respond really well to it all.

Also... yeaaaahhhh, that guy. At least he inspired a dueling society.

Just to be clear, they said that's relatively rare, like once every few years. Also, I would think that the Virginia Capital Case Clearinghouse cases are more likely to end up in the 4th Circuit. Of course, whether you get to go to the COA or not, the clinics sound pretty cool.

I get that, it was still exciting to hear about none the less.

[Spaceman Spiff]

so then do we assume that the ~11 who went to NYC were able to do so with a combination of superior grades and connections? I'm concerned that with the low OCI I'd be stuck in VA. Who exactly gets to work in NYC/DC- is it the very top of the class?

Again, just from what I gather, yes. Those with good grades and good networking skills get the big jobs in DC and New York. However, networking is supposed to be surprisingly easy coming from W&L considering how alumnus are so incredibly willing and wanting to hire fellow alum. I think with a little determination and grit you should be able to practice almost where ever you want (including the west coast)... you just might have a harder time finding the combination of one of those fabled cushy 150,000+ big law jobs AND the large metropolitan city you want.

The 3L clinics sounded pretty great too... even if I didn't get to go to serbia with the transnational clinic, the black lung clinic sounded like it offered off the charts real world experience. Students get to actually argue in front of the 4th circuit court of appeals!!! I know practicing associates with less trial experience. Even the tax clinic sounded like it could be super beneficial, with all the face to face client interaction. I think employers are going to respond really well to it all.

Also... yeaaaahhhh, that guy. At least he inspired a dueling society.

Just to be clear, they said that's relatively rare, like once every few years. Also, I would think that the Virginia Capital Case Clearinghouse cases are more likely to end up in the 4th Circuit. Of course, whether you get to go to the COA or not, the clinics sound pretty cool.

I get that, it was still exciting to hear about none the less.

I figured you did. I just wanted to make sure that those that didn't go to an ASW don't get the impression that there's a guarantee of a COA case. I'm not totally committed to W&L yet, but I'm getting excited about the VC3.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

How many people did they put in ATL/DC this past year?