Washington and Lee

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jmhendri
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby jmhendri » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:43 pm

itzbouttime wrote:I'm completely assuming here, as is everyone on this site, but I've heard that the reason W&L went down in ranking wasn't due to the fact that they changed the 3L program, but the way US News does their ranking. W&L hasn't changed, at least to my knowledge. I don't think that we will have a difficult time finding jobs or that our selection has become smaller just because W&L is now 30 instead of 22. W&L still has a very strong reputation and it is considered a 'National' school. Honestly, that is all I'm concerned with. I do not know where I want to practice law, but if I can graduate from a school and have the name recognized by firms in either NY, DC, FL or CA I know it was worth my investment.

I do believe, for those of us going to the ASD, this is something worth discussing with either the current students and/or faculty/staff/admissions.


Come again?[/quote]

National school = A school in which a firm will recognize regardless of the location. For example, there are excellent schools in NY, such as Brooklyn Law School, but, there's a big possibility that if you wanted to go to CA to practice law, a firm might not know of Brooklyn outright. However, one might say that there is a 'better' possibility an employer will know of W&L. Basically, I've been told to choose a school based on geographic location - where I eventually want to work. Since I don't know where that is I want to make sure that where I end up going is 'recognizable' enough to take me to most states.[/quote]

Ditto, this is my logic in strongly considering W&L too. Although it's national reputation isn't as strong as some of the higher ranked schools, I know a lot of people in SOCAL, where I am, have heard of the school and respect it. I even know of one firm in which the majority of the attorneys are W&L alumni.

I don't know where I want to practice either, but at least I know a W&L degree won't lock me into one region... like a USD degree would.

nol607
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby nol607 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:16 am

Not to beat the issue to death, but has anyone who went complete for a second time on 3/2 heard anything?

Bobalou
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Bobalou » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:52 am

nol607 wrote:Not to beat the issue to death, but has anyone who went complete for a second time on 3/2 heard anything?


Would've loved to, I'm still sitting at complete 1/27.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:56 am

Is W&L a National School? Well, here are the US News regional breakdowns for employment.

2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 26%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 1%
Number of states where graduates are employed 30
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 2.0%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 17.0%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 4.0%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 1.0%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 47.0%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 5.0%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 5.0%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 5.0%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 6.0%
Employment location unknown 7.0%

Only 1/4 in-state, and 47% in home region. In fact, 30 states of employment for only 125 graduating students is incredible. Places well into NY (that's a lot of that 17% Mid-Atlantic). But, as you can see, there are a smattering of students in every region. Considering how rural and small W and L is, with an expected self-selection bias towards the general region, W&L has great reach.

Plus, 9% Federal Clerkships is a huge mark indicating its prestige.

For comparison with schools in the same region and general ranking:

Willam and Mary


2007 Graduates Employment Location
Graduates employed in-state 29%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 1%
Number of states where graduates are employed 28
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 3.7%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 15.0%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 3.0%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 1.6%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 60.0%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 0.5%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 3.7%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 3.7%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 5.8%
Employment location unknown 2.0%

More in-state, more South Atlantic, and less states covered with a much larger class.

George Washington

Graduates employed in-state 49%
Graduates employed in foreign countries 0%
Number of states where graduates are employed 34
New England (CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT) 3.0%
Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA) 17.0%
East North Central (IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) 3.0%
West North Central (IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SD) 1.0%
South Atlantic (DE, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 65.0%
East South Central (AL, KY, MS, TN) 0.0%
West South Central (AR, LA, OK, TX) 1.0%
Pacific (AK, CA, HI, OR, WA) 6.0%
Mountain (AZ, CO, ID, MT, NV, NM, UT, WY) 2.0%
Employment location unknown 2.0%

It makes sense that GW would be heavily DC-zoned, but it's still telling to see just how heavily concentrated it is. It's probably largely a function of alumni networks that are tied to one place, while W&L has a wider dispersal - kindof like Notre Dame.

A brief look at some other schools in rank or area.

UNC - 61% in-state, 81% in region. Of course, with NC's residency quota, self-selection is especially prominent here.
Wake Forest - 46% in-state, 81% in region, 24-state max spread with much less even distribution compared to W&L
Emory - 42% in-state (i.e. Atlanta), 56% South Atlantic, 21% Mid-Atlantic, 28-state Spread. Similar overall.
Notre Dame - 10% In-state, but very centered on a few regions. East North Central 40%, South Atlantic 17%, Mid-Atlantic 17%, Pacific 11%, West South Central 5%, almost nothing outside these. W&L is notable for putting 4% or more into 6 regions. The fact that placement is good in the Mountain West for W&L is especially interesting.
Boston University - 42% Northeast, 29% Mid-Atlantic, 9% South Atlantic, 10% Pacific, that's it.

Many of the Midwest state schools are Midwest-centric and public (which exacerbates self-selection usually), so W&L will likely spread more than them.

Now, I realize that Washington and Lee's wide spread is mainly because of the small legal markets nearby, but even so, the end result of a more national alumni network as well as a more national name is pretty indisputable. It's not Duke or Cornell, but it's also historically a Top 20 school (and has higher Judge/Peer rep scores than it's range to back that up).

koopa
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby koopa » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:07 pm

So I think I saw this somewhere else in the thread but what kind of clothes do you think will be appropriate for the admitted student days next week?

thanks

statuscheckerssuck
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby statuscheckerssuck » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:08 pm

As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts

raoul79
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby raoul79 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:12 pm

nol607 wrote:Not to beat the issue to death, but has anyone who went complete for a second time on 3/2 heard anything?


3/1 here (second completion, 1/27 first complete)...
We should be hoping for an email acceptance and hope to avoid another waitlist batch....

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jaxangler
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby jaxangler » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:48 pm

statuscheckerssuck wrote:As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts



I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.

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jmhendri
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby jmhendri » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:52 pm

I'm getting very excited about my visit for the 4/2-4/3 Open House.
Also 95% sure I'll be at W&L in the fall... only thing that could stop me is getting bumped off the University of Illinois waitlist.

sibley
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby sibley » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:54 pm

jmhendri wrote:I'm getting very excited about my visit for the 4/2-4/3 Open House.
Also 95% sure I'll be at W&L in the fall... only thing that could stop me is getting bumped off the University of Illinois waitlist.


I might come to the open house. I'm thinking I want a big city but I don't feel that I can cut out W&L that easily - they gave me a nice scholly and have a good ranking. The thing is, my career interests are more big city too - I want to do immigration law. Any opportunity for clinics in that in Lexington?

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Spaceman Spiff
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Spaceman Spiff » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:58 pm

jaxangler wrote:I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.


Unless I get a nice email from WUSTL this week, I'll be there.

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HERetICal
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby HERetICal » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:04 pm

jaxangler wrote:
statuscheckerssuck wrote:As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts



I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.



I'll be at the ASW on the 20. Do we want to come up with some sort of signifier to denote TLS? On another thread, the students were putting a small star on the corner of their name tag. I'm not sure if that is cloak & dagger cool, or spy kids lame.

NYVA311
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby NYVA311 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:04 pm

When are they going to send out another batch of decisions! I'm let down each day when my status remains the same at the end of each day - Complete 2/28. It's already 3/10, it's definitely time to send out another batch..

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jmhendri
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby jmhendri » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:08 pm

HERetICal wrote:
jaxangler wrote:
statuscheckerssuck wrote:As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts



I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.



I'll be at the ASW on the 20. Do we want to come up with some sort of signifier to denote TLS? On another thread, the students were putting a small star on the corner of their name tag. I'm not sure if that is cloak & dagger cool, or spy kids lame.


We should figure out something to recognize each other... I hope we can be more clever than the star thing though.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:11 pm

jmhendri wrote:
We should figure out something to recognize each other... I hope we can be more clever than the star thing though.



Double agree. I'll be there in April.

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jaxangler
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby jaxangler » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:13 pm

Spaceman Spiff, love the name. I'm a big Calvin and Hobbes fan myself.

Jaggles
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Jaggles » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm

jmhendri wrote:
HERetICal wrote:
jaxangler wrote:
statuscheckerssuck wrote:As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts



I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.



I'll be at the ASW on the 20. Do we want to come up with some sort of signifier to denote TLS? On another thread, the students were putting a small star on the corner of their name tag. I'm not sure if that is cloak & dagger cool, or spy kids lame.


We should figure out something to recognize each other... I hope we can be more clever than the star thing though.

How about you guys just do a private exchange of names?

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Panther7
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:33 pm

jaxangler wrote:
statuscheckerssuck wrote:As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts



I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.



i'll be there. not sure if i'm going for sure or not, i did commit to wisconsin if i get off the WL, but W&L is looking better every day.

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Panther7
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:35 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:It's not Duke or Cornell, but it's also historically a Top 20 school (and has higher Judge/Peer rep scores than it's range to back that up).


You have the scores on the judge/peer reviews from the last few cycles? That's what I've been looking for the past two days!

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SpaceDawg
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby SpaceDawg » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:36 pm

jaxangler wrote:
statuscheckerssuck wrote:As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts



I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.


Me

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Panther7
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:36 pm

Jaggles wrote:
jmhendri wrote:
We should figure out something to recognize each other... I hope we can be more clever than the star thing though.

How about you guys just do a private exchange of names?


I got the phone numbers of a few people who will be there in a week. We're definitely going out on Sat night. I'm sure we'll be able to arrange something at dinner and pass the word on.

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SpaceDawg
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby SpaceDawg » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:38 pm

jmhendri wrote:
HERetICal wrote:
jaxangler wrote:
statuscheckerssuck wrote:As the deadlines get closer...any of you who have decided on W&L should join the facebook group!!

Here is the link

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3 ... 375&ref=ts



I joined the group as I'm 95% sure I will be attending W&L. Who all is going to the admitted students open house the 20th? I'm really looking forward to checking W&L and Lexington out.



I'll be at the ASW on the 20. Do we want to come up with some sort of signifier to denote TLS? On another thread, the students were putting a small star on the corner of their name tag. I'm not sure if that is cloak & dagger cool, or spy kids lame.


We should figure out something to recognize each other... I hope we can be more clever than the star thing though.


Yeah, that's a little concentration camp-esque.

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Panther7
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:39 pm

SpaceDawg wrote:
jmhendri wrote:
We should figure out something to recognize each other... I hope we can be more clever than the star thing though.


Yeah, that's a little concentration camp-esque.


rofl, could you imagine what admissions would think if half of the open house was strutting around with little gold stars on their chest?

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SpaceDawg
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby SpaceDawg » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:43 pm

Panther7 wrote:
SpaceDawg wrote:
jmhendri wrote:
We should figure out something to recognize each other... I hope we can be more clever than the star thing though.


Yeah, that's a little concentration camp-esque.


rofl, could you imagine what admissions would think if half of the open house was strutting around with little gold stars on their chest?


I know, they may suspect we are a cult. Or a drill team.

I PMed you with my name and # to go out next Saturday. I wish it was Saturday now. I need a drink.

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Panther7
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Re: Washington and Lee

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:48 pm

SpaceDawg wrote:
I know, they may suspect we are a cult. Or a drill team.

I PMed you with my name and # to go out next Saturday. I wish it was Saturday now. I need a drink.



yeah, i seen it, i'll see if i text something out or maybe just arrange it after dinner, not sure how it'll work best.

Anyone ever been to Lexington? I'm from Wisconsin, never been near the area, what are the places we need to check out?




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