For WUSTL Applicants

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
darklighter13
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby darklighter13 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:41 am

trademark wrote:Darklighter, did you visit recently? Was it just you or were other guys there


I went this past Friday. There were four of us, and another group of a few that arrived later. Only one of us was a straight-out admit, the rest of us were holds/waitlists.

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JCougar
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby JCougar » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:45 am

HondoK wrote:
quadsixm wrote:Wasn't me, JCougar went on the visit, I believe. I hope to visit, finances permitting...
HondoK wrote:Quadsixm, how did your meeting/tour go? When you sat down with the admissions officer, did they lead the conversation or was it mostly you asking questions? I'm visiting this week and am not sure what to expect...


Oh sorry!


We have similar avatars; you're forgiven.

I loved my visit, and definitely think St. Louis is a cool town. It's not Chicago, New York, or South Beach, but given the cost of living, there's some pretty cool areas to live and some pretty interesting things to do.

I talked with admissions; basically they have no idea what's going to happen with the waitlist/hold list right now because they have no idea how many people are going to withdraw. Dean Pless at Illinois basically said the same thing in his e-mail. This cycle is extremely hard to predict for admissions offices because of two things 1) the enormous amount of applications relative to the modest increase in applicants, and 2) the trend of more people retaking the LSAT and some of them getting higher scores. The first factor may really mess with yield rate, so schools are being extra cautious. No one wants to be the next U Miami. But the second could also mean that schools will end up having somewhat higher standards this year, or that some who applied late in the cycle might get hosed if you have marginal numbers. My guess is that schools are still trying to sort out how many of the extra applicants are just people concerned about the economy and/or applying everywhere to make sure they get in somewhere or that they have a lot of options for scholarship negotiation, and how many of the applicants are truly interested. Because of the trend of more people retaking the LSAT, 167s and 168s, etc. are also probably less rare this year, so there are more top-tiered applicants.

With that said, if you are really not going to Wash U, please withdraw soon!

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romothesavior
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:51 am

JCougar wrote:
HondoK wrote:
quadsixm wrote:Wasn't me, JCougar went on the visit, I believe. I hope to visit, finances permitting...
HondoK wrote:Quadsixm, how did your meeting/tour go? When you sat down with the admissions officer, did they lead the conversation or was it mostly you asking questions? I'm visiting this week and am not sure what to expect...


Oh sorry!


We have similar avatars; you're forgiven.

I loved my visit, and definitely think St. Louis is a cool town. It's not Chicago, New York, or South Beach, but given the cost of living, there's some pretty cool areas to live and some pretty interesting things to do.

I talked with admissions; basically they have no idea what's going to happen with the waitlist/hold list right now because they have no idea how many people are going to withdraw. Dean Pless at Illinois basically said the same thing in his e-mail. This cycle is extremely hard to predict for admissions offices because of two things 1) the enormous amount of applications relative to the modest increase in applicants, and 2) the trend of more people retaking the LSAT and some of them getting higher scores. The first factor may really mess with yield rate, so schools are being extra cautious. No one wants to be the next U Miami. But the second could also mean that schools will end up having somewhat higher standards this year, or that some who applied late in the cycle might get hosed if you have marginal numbers. My guess is that schools are still trying to sort out how many of the extra applicants are just people concerned about the economy and/or applying everywhere to make sure they get in somewhere or that they have a lot of options for scholarship negotiation, and how many of the applicants are truly interested. Because of the trend of more people retaking the LSAT, 167s and 168s, etc. are also probably less rare this year, so there are more top-tiered applicants.

With that said, if you are really not going to Wash U, please withdraw soon!


Best of luck to you, man. I know you've really been hoping for an acceptance there. Is it your first choice?

MissLucky
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby MissLucky » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:33 am

Visited and LOVEDDDDDDDDDDDDD it. plus the students went well out of their way to talk up the school. oh wait, i mean...it sucked...so all of you withdraw! haha ;)

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najumobi
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby najumobi » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:00 am

MissLucky wrote:Visited and LOVEDDDDDDDDDDDDD it. plus the students went well out of their way to talk up the school. oh wait, i mean...it sucked...so all of you withdraw! haha ;)
:)

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JCougar
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby JCougar » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:47 am

romothesavior wrote:
JCougar wrote:
HondoK wrote:
quadsixm wrote:Wasn't me, JCougar went on the visit, I believe. I hope to visit, finances permitting...


Oh sorry!


We have similar avatars; you're forgiven.

I loved my visit, and definitely think St. Louis is a cool town. It's not Chicago, New York, or South Beach, but given the cost of living, there's some pretty cool areas to live and some pretty interesting things to do.

I talked with admissions; basically they have no idea what's going to happen with the waitlist/hold list right now because they have no idea how many people are going to withdraw. Dean Pless at Illinois basically said the same thing in his e-mail. This cycle is extremely hard to predict for admissions offices because of two things 1) the enormous amount of applications relative to the modest increase in applicants, and 2) the trend of more people retaking the LSAT and some of them getting higher scores. The first factor may really mess with yield rate, so schools are being extra cautious. No one wants to be the next U Miami. But the second could also mean that schools will end up having somewhat higher standards this year, or that some who applied late in the cycle might get hosed if you have marginal numbers. My guess is that schools are still trying to sort out how many of the extra applicants are just people concerned about the economy and/or applying everywhere to make sure they get in somewhere or that they have a lot of options for scholarship negotiation, and how many of the applicants are truly interested. Because of the trend of more people retaking the LSAT, 167s and 168s, etc. are also probably less rare this year, so there are more top-tiered applicants.

With that said, if you are really not going to Wash U, please withdraw soon!


Best of luck to you, man. I know you've really been hoping for an acceptance there. Is it your first choice?


Yes, but it's really close. I visited Illinois the next day and was equally impressed with things there, but for different reasons. I walked away from the Illinois campus tour thinking that campus is a bit more my own personal style. Each school has it's own flavor. Wash U was more Ivy-league-esque and nerdy, Illinois is a state school in a college town. The students in the Illinois class I sat in on were really having fun with each other and the professor (yet still making very cogent and sometimes passionate points). However, the ones I talked with were pretty excited about the extracurricular events such as softball (where there is apparently a bar on the field that serves beer) and law school prom. They seemed not to stress out too much about school, which is probably more congruent with my personality. I do my best work when I don't worry so much about the outcome. Also, Illinois allows you to audit classes outside the law school free of charge, so if you wanted to learn a foreign language, for example, you could audit a Spanish class. Or, if you wanted to brush up on economics, etc. you could still do that. This seems like it would be a tremendous resource. On top of that, Illinois has a very strong labor and employment law program, seemingly stronger than Wash U's. Since this is what I want to practice, and Chicago is where I want to work, it would make Illinois the right choice for me for so many different reasons.

On the other hand, Wash U. is in a big city, which probably offers a social scene more relevant to a student who will be 30 years old midway through 1L. And for me, a big component of law school is about a change in life philosophy. I've had my fun, and I really think it's time for me to revisit the inner nerd in me, and take my studies fairly seriously. The class I sat in on at Wash U. was an upper-level class, and Professor Greenfield was really tying the students' brains in knots and getting them to think thoroughly and completely about the material. It seemed pretty intense (definitely not in a bad way, from my perspective). Given that, part of dealing with the pressures of law school is being able to have fun, and I think St. Louis offers a more diverse array of opportunities that are a train ride away. I'm a big city person. I was born in a big city, and went to undergrad and grad school in a big city. The only time in my life I have ever lived in a small city/suburb is right now, and I hate it. But I want my main focus to be on being as big of a nerd as I can be. Not that Illinois students aren't nerdy or smart (obviously they are), but I think the Ivy-esque atmosphere that I got from Wash U. might be better for me in the big picture.

Given that, I'm on the waitlist at both places, so it might simply be a matter of who admits me first, if either one actually does. I'm not going to turn down an offer at one hoping for an offer at the other, unless scholarship money is less than what is normally given out for someone with my numbers. I'm in at Wisconsin now with in-state tuition, and Madison is awesome, so I don't think I could go wrong with that. But I want everything I do related to law school to have one common theme: I want to do the absolute best that I can possibly do at ever step of the process. From the LSAT to choosing a school to my exams to OCI, I will accept nothing less than the best from myself. I'm not going to let cost get in the way too much. If I do my best, I won't have to worry too much about debt, so I will pay more (within reason) to go to a better school.
Last edited by JCougar on Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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caleng
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby caleng » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:57 am

I just withdrew and threw $111,000 of scholarship money back into the pool. That was painfully hard to do. I hope one of you seriously benefits, good luck to everyone still waiting!

finalaspects
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby finalaspects » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:59 am

caleng wrote:I just withdrew and threw $111,000 of scholarship money back into the pool. That was painfully hard to do. I hope one of you seriously benefits, good luck to everyone still waiting!


May 1st doesn't seem to come quick enough. guessing they need another week after May 1st though to organize everything then see if they need more people....

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quadsixm
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby quadsixm » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:26 pm

I take it as a bad sign that we aren't seeing movement yet - I would think that once they hit a decent number of withdrawals, they would start pulling people in from the lists. Most people aren't going to wait until the very last day to withdraw and get their $200 returned.

finalaspects wrote:
caleng wrote:I just withdrew and threw $111,000 of scholarship money back into the pool. That was painfully hard to do. I hope one of you seriously benefits, good luck to everyone still waiting!


May 1st doesn't seem to come quick enough. guessing they need another week after May 1st though to organize everything then see if they need more people....

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najumobi
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby najumobi » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:35 pm

quadsixm wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
caleng wrote:I just withdrew and threw $111,000 of scholarship money back into the pool. That was painfully hard to do. I hope one of you seriously benefits, good luck to everyone still waiting!
May 1st doesn't seem to come quick enough. guessing they need another week after May 1st though to organize everything then see if they need more people....
I take it as a bad sign that we aren't seeing movement yet - I would think that once they hit a decent number of withdrawals, they would start pulling people in from the lists. Most people aren't going to wait until the very last day to withdraw and get their $200 returned.
why would they start taking people off the lists without knowing exactly where they stand? they won't know exactly the kind of applicant stats they need to make offers to until that date has passed. now if that they comes and goes and you still hear from admissions that they are overenrolled, that would be a bad sign.

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fwilliamgreen
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby fwilliamgreen » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:41 pm

For those who visited, and others I guess; what is the consensus on how well Wash U places in the northeast corridor - especially, for my purposes, versus Illinois? The geographic distribution chart is a little vague,

http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/pa ... 506#salary

i.e "East North Central?" Still, it appear that Wash U has much more pull in NYC/DC than Illinois

Anyone stay at the Knight center on campus?

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quadsixm
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby quadsixm » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:43 pm

I guess I meant to say, why can't they be calculating where they stand dynamically, as people withdraw throughout April? It seems like it would be a simple excel spreadsheet that keeps a running tally of the LSAT and GPA medians that could update whenever somebody pulls their name out.

najumobi wrote:
quadsixm wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
caleng wrote:I just withdrew and threw $111,000 of scholarship money back into the pool. That was painfully hard to do. I hope one of you seriously benefits, good luck to everyone still waiting!
May 1st doesn't seem to come quick enough. guessing they need another week after May 1st though to organize everything then see if they need more people....
I take it as a bad sign that we aren't seeing movement yet - I would think that once they hit a decent number of withdrawals, they would start pulling people in from the lists. Most people aren't going to wait until the very last day to withdraw and get their $200 returned.
why would they start taking people off the lists without knowing exactly where they stand? they won't know exactly the kind of applicant stats they need to make offers to until that date has passed. now if that they comes and goes and you still hear from admissions that they are overenrolled, that would be a bad sign.

trademark
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby trademark » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:20 pm

Because it isn't an oh who has the next highest numbers. They reject people with higher numbers than they waitlist or even admit. An excel spreadsheet that spits out the next highest quotient would be useless.

quadsixm wrote:I guess I meant to say, why can't they be calculating where they stand dynamically, as people withdraw throughout April? It seems like it would be a simple excel spreadsheet that keeps a running tally of the LSAT and GPA medians that could update whenever somebody pulls their name out.
[/quote]

expungemalice
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby expungemalice » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:53 pm

it might be reasonable to conclude that wusl either has not hit their medians yet or is looking to push one or the other's 25/75s up a bit given their actions regarding a waitlist/hold list. It would explain the decision to create two separate pools of essentially waitlisted candidates, one of which emphasizes the higher LSAT and one a higher GPA. In doing so they can assess and react to the actual yield from initial acceptances rather than being forced to make assumptions regarding predicted yield. it seems like they're looking to hit specific numbers this year, unfortunately applicants can only make guesses as to what those numbers are. The only thing one can draw from this is that it is most likely that wusl will not be sending out more acceptances until either, a. it is after the true deposit deadline and after a reasonable processing lag time (wusl as more risk adverse b/c with the full picture they can see where they stand and how their applicants reacted the this cycle), or b. when enough admitted students withdraw their offers and scholarships that wusl admissions office is forced to reevaluate their predicted yield. At this point, depending on how risk acceptant they are, they will make determinations regarding which list to go to in order to either hit or improve their medians and/or 25/75s. The benefit to b is that wusl can jump the gun, and potentially lock the students in who can solidify specific numbers. in my opinion however, i believe they will stick to their guns until the passing of the deposit deadline, option a. its safer and the chance of locking down an applicant with that extra week provided by option b and half is minimal.

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najumobi
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby najumobi » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:55 pm

fwilliamgreen wrote:For those who visited, and others I guess; what is the consensus on how well Wash U places in the northeast corridor - especially, for my purposes, versus Illinois? The geographic distribution chart is a little vague,

http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/pa ... 506#salary

i.e "East North Central?" Still, it appear that Wash U has much more pull in NYC/DC than Illinois

Anyone stay at the Knight center on campus?
wustl's students are more geographically diverse than illinois' and their grads dispersed to a greater extent as well. for instance for wustl's class of 2008 only 40% ended up in the midwest while for illinois 65% of their class stayed in illinois and another 5% dispersed throughout the rest of the midwest. it would probably be tougher to get connections and land a job in the northeast coming out of illinois because their footprint there is smaller than that of wustl. only 5% of illinois' class landed in the northeast. for wustl they had three times that amount at 15%. are those your only options or do you have others, like bc?

finalaspects
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby finalaspects » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:59 pm

expungemalice wrote:it might be reasonable to conclude that wusl either has not hit their medians yet or is looking to push one or the other's 25/75s up a bit given their actions regarding a waitlist/hold list. It would explain the decision to create two separate pools of essentially waitlisted candidates, one of which emphasizes the higher LSAT and one a higher GPA. In doing so they can assess and react to the actual yield from initial acceptances rather than being forced to make assumptions regarding predicted yield. it seems like they're looking to hit specific numbers this year, unfortunately applicants can only make guesses as to what those numbers are. The only thing one can draw from this is that it is most likely that wusl will not be sending out more acceptances until either, a. it is after the true deposit deadline and after a reasonable processing lag time (wusl as more risk adverse b/c with the full picture they can see where they stand and how their applicants reacted the this cycle), or b. when enough admitted students withdraw their offers and scholarships that wusl admissions office is forced to reevaluate their predicted yield. At this point, depending on how risk acceptant they are, they will make determinations regarding which list to go to in order to either hit or improve their medians and/or 25/75s. The benefit to b is that wusl can jump the gun, and potentially lock the students in who can solidify specific numbers. in my opinion however, i believe they will stick to their guns until the passing of the deposit deadline, option a. its safer and the chance of locking down an applicant with that extra week provided by option b and half is minimal.


what's their true deposit deadline? On may 1st the deposit that people put on april 1st becomes non-refundable. the 2nd deposit day June 1st i believe.

expungemalice
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby expungemalice » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:00 pm

finalaspects wrote:
expungemalice wrote:it might be reasonable to conclude that wusl either has not hit their medians yet or is looking to push one or the other's 25/75s up a bit given their actions regarding a waitlist/hold list. It would explain the decision to create two separate pools of essentially waitlisted candidates, one of which emphasizes the higher LSAT and one a higher GPA. In doing so they can assess and react to the actual yield from initial acceptances rather than being forced to make assumptions regarding predicted yield. it seems like they're looking to hit specific numbers this year, unfortunately applicants can only make guesses as to what those numbers are. The only thing one can draw from this is that it is most likely that wusl will not be sending out more acceptances until either, a. it is after the true deposit deadline and after a reasonable processing lag time (wusl as more risk adverse b/c with the full picture they can see where they stand and how their applicants reacted the this cycle), or b. when enough admitted students withdraw their offers and scholarships that wusl admissions office is forced to reevaluate their predicted yield. At this point, depending on how risk acceptant they are, they will make determinations regarding which list to go to in order to either hit or improve their medians and/or 25/75s. The benefit to b is that wusl can jump the gun, and potentially lock the students in who can solidify specific numbers. in my opinion however, i believe they will stick to their guns until the passing of the deposit deadline, option a. its safer and the chance of locking down an applicant with that extra week provided by option b and half is minimal.


what's their true deposit deadline? On may 1st the deposit that people put on april 1st becomes non-refundable. the 2nd deposit day June 1st i believe.



the point at which it becomes non-refundable.

finalaspects
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby finalaspects » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:05 pm

expungemalice wrote:the point at which it becomes non-refundable.


also i believe the held list has high GPA people as well. so that's not the difference between held and waitlist. although it feels still as if held list is more of a priority.

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JCougar
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby JCougar » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:17 pm

finalaspects wrote:
expungemalice wrote:the point at which it becomes non-refundable.


also i believe the held list has high GPA people as well. so that's not the difference between held and waitlist. although it feels still as if held list is more of a priority.


They're probably just more conscious of people on the hold list withdrawing. They want those people to hang on because it's more important to protect your LSAT median than it is your GPA median. If an extra few LSAT splitters withdraw, your median drops a whole point to 166. If an extra few GPA people withdraw, your median drops from 3.74 to 3.70, which is not as big of a deal.

They may or may not need to admit people after May 1. Also, $200 is not a lot, so some people hanging on to a full scholly seeing if they can get off a waitlist at the T14 might decide to eat that later on. It won't be until the June 1 deadline that they will be sure about how much, if any WL movement there will be, but they may know something by May.

finalaspects
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby finalaspects » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:20 pm

JCougar wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
expungemalice wrote:the point at which it becomes non-refundable.


also i believe the held list has high GPA people as well. so that's not the difference between held and waitlist. although it feels still as if held list is more of a priority.


They're probably just more conscious of people on the hold list withdrawing. They want those people to hang on because it's more important to protect your LSAT median than it is your GPA median. If an extra few LSAT splitters withdraw, your median drops a whole point to 166. If an extra few GPA people withdraw, your median drops from 3.74 to 3.70, which is not as big of a deal.

They may or may not need to admit people after May 1. Also, $200 is not a lot, so some people hanging on to a full scholly seeing if they can get off a waitlist at the T14 might decide to eat that later on. It won't be until the June 1 deadline that they will be sure about how much, if any WL movement there will be, but they may know something by May.


damn if that's true we'll be waiting until mid June... :(

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najumobi
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby najumobi » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:23 pm

JCougar wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
expungemalice wrote:the point at which it becomes non-refundable.


also i believe the held list has high GPA people as well. so that's not the difference between held and waitlist. although it feels still as if held list is more of a priority.


They're probably just more conscious of people on the hold list withdrawing. They want those people to hang on because it's more important to protect your LSAT median than it is your GPA median. If an extra few LSAT splitters withdraw, your median drops a whole point to 166. If an extra few GPA people withdraw, your median drops from 3.74 to 3.70, which is not as big of a deal.

They may or may not need to admit people after May 1. Also, $200 is not a lot, so some people hanging on to a full scholly seeing if they can get off a waitlist at the T14 might decide to eat that later on. It won't be until the June 1 deadline that they will be sure about how much, if any WL movement there will be, but they may know something by May.
i guess this makes sense that people are more likely to withdraw if their waitlisted than if their placed on hold since hold isn't really a decision. admissions probably values those on hold more than those who are waitlisted.

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JCougar
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby JCougar » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:24 pm

finalaspects wrote:
JCougar wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
expungemalice wrote:the point at which it becomes non-refundable.


also i believe the held list has high GPA people as well. so that's not the difference between held and waitlist. although it feels still as if held list is more of a priority.


They're probably just more conscious of people on the hold list withdrawing. They want those people to hang on because it's more important to protect your LSAT median than it is your GPA median. If an extra few LSAT splitters withdraw, your median drops a whole point to 166. If an extra few GPA people withdraw, your median drops from 3.74 to 3.70, which is not as big of a deal.

They may or may not need to admit people after May 1. Also, $200 is not a lot, so some people hanging on to a full scholly seeing if they can get off a waitlist at the T14 might decide to eat that later on. It won't be until the June 1 deadline that they will be sure about how much, if any WL movement there will be, but they may know something by May.


damn if that's true we'll be waiting until mid June... :(


If you really want to go there, prepare yourself to wait that long. Let them surprise you if it's any time sooner. Sometimes people withdraw or defer even after that, up until right before classes.

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fwilliamgreen
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby fwilliamgreen » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:41 pm

najumobi wrote:
fwilliamgreen wrote:For those who visited, and others I guess; what is the consensus on how well Wash U places in the northeast corridor - especially, for my purposes, versus Illinois? The geographic distribution chart is a little vague,

http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/pa ... 506#salary

i.e "East North Central?" Still, it appear that Wash U has much more pull in NYC/DC than Illinois

Anyone stay at the Knight center on campus?
wustl's students are more geographically diverse than illinois' and their grads dispersed to a greater extent as well. for instance for wustl's class of 2008 only 40% ended up in the midwest while for illinois 65% of their class stayed in illinois and another 5% dispersed throughout the rest of the midwest. it would probably be tougher to get connections and land a job in the northeast coming out of illinois because their footprint there is smaller than that of wustl. only 5% of illinois' class landed in the northeast. for wustl they had three times that amount at 15%. are those your only options or do you have others, like bc?


Unfortunately I got shut out of BU/BC/Fordham- I am deliberating between W&L and Illinois where I have been accepted with money (submitted deposit to W&L) and then the waitlist at GW/Emory/W&M and held at Wash U. I would like to come back to the northeast or DC after school so am trying to give myself the best chance at that outcome out of the choices that I have. In light of that I don't really see a reason to go to Illinois, though I am having last minute thoughts otherwise. I'm headed to Wash U on Tuesday though to hopefully impress upon them my interest.

Xiaolong
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby Xiaolong » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:21 am

Has anyone successfully negotiated for more money from WUSTL? I send them a letter about 7 weeks ago or so but never got a response.

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stratocophic
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Re: For WUSTL Applicants

Postby stratocophic » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:26 am

Xiaolong wrote:Has anyone successfully negotiated for more money from WUSTL? I send them a letter about 7 weeks ago or so but never got a response.
Haven't heard any positive stories thus far. That could change later in the summer when things are a little tighter and people start getting off WLs, we'll see.




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