In at Notre Dame (2013)

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udlordly
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby udlordly » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:54 am

oneforship wrote:
finalaspects wrote:perfect avatar. seems to match you perfectly.


Thanks, I like it. Anyone care to predict what my letter says? 175/3.16, submitted first week of October. This is the first decision that I haven't been sure of yet.


Probably wasn't a YP, probably the GPA was too low for auto admit. Sorry to hear that you won't be waiting it out.

finalaspects
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby finalaspects » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:58 am

udlordly wrote:
oneforship wrote:
finalaspects wrote:perfect avatar. seems to match you perfectly.


Thanks, I like it. Anyone care to predict what my letter says? 175/3.16, submitted first week of October. This is the first decision that I haven't been sure of yet.


Probably wasn't a YP, probably the GPA was too low for auto admit. Sorry to hear that you won't be waiting it out.


Notre Dame accepted a 167/2.98. it was most likely a yield protect, or notre dame didn't think he would attend with those stats anyways.

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YellowCake
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby YellowCake » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:00 pm

udlordly wrote:
oneforship wrote:
finalaspects wrote:perfect avatar. seems to match you perfectly.


Thanks, I like it. Anyone care to predict what my letter says? 175/3.16, submitted first week of October. This is the first decision that I haven't been sure of yet.


Probably wasn't a YP, probably the GPA was too low for auto admit. Sorry to hear that you won't be waiting it out.


No offense, but you're probably wrong.

They've already taken a 2.98/167 this year. Last year they took a 166/2.9, a 169/3.18, and a 166/3.1 These were all non-URM, and all were admitted outright (no WL).

A 175/3.16 WL is definitely YP.

finalaspects
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby finalaspects » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:04 pm

YellowCake wrote:
udlordly wrote:
oneforship wrote:
Thanks, I like it. Anyone care to predict what my letter says? 175/3.16, submitted first week of October.


Probably wasn't a YP, probably the GPA was too low for auto admit. Sorry to hear that you won't be waiting it out.


No offense, but you're probably wrong.

They've already taken a 2.98/167 this year. Last year they took a 166/2.9, a 169/3.18, and a 166/3.1 These were all non-URM, and all were admitted outright (no WL).

A 175/3.16 WL is definitely YP.


I definitely agree. Oneforship with those stats will get into the t14 if he hasn't already.

oneforship
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby oneforship » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:05 pm

finalaspects wrote:I definitely agree. Oneforship with those stats will get into the t14 if he hasn't already.


I have, hence the quick withdrawal and lack of desire to fight off the waitlist. But no need to debate me here, there must be an acceptance letter out there somewhere that corresponds with my WL, who's going to get it? :)

finalaspects
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby finalaspects » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:08 pm

oneforship wrote:
finalaspects wrote:I definitely agree. Oneforship with those stats will get into the t14 if he hasn't already.


I have, hence the quick withdrawal and lack of desire to fight off the waitlist. But no need to debate me here, there must be an acceptance letter out there somewhere that corresponds with my WL, who's going to get it? :)


i would ask to take it, but i got waitlisted with my 168/3.1 =I

and notre dame was one of my favorite choices with just a little bit of money too.... now i wait until the summer of 2010.. sigh...

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:23 pm

Definitely a YP.

On a related subject, it must be difficult to be an admissions officer anywhere outside of, and even in the lower T14. Of the thousands of applications that come across your desk a good portion will be well-, or overqualified, and you will be jaded from the number of times you have accepted (with $$$) overqualified applicants who tricked you by writing the "Why [your school]" essay and giving a laundry list of reasons for wanting to attend. But then they get into Harvard and the only reason they need is that it's Harvard.

finalaspects
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby finalaspects » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:53 pm

badwithpseudonyms wrote:Definitely a YP.

On a related subject, it must be difficult to be an admissions officer anywhere outside of, and even in the lower T14. Of the thousands of applications that come across your desk a good portion will be well-, or overqualified, and you will be jaded from the number of times you have accepted (with $$$) overqualified applicants who tricked you by writing the "Why [your school]" essay and giving a laundry list of reasons for wanting to attend. But then they get into Harvard and the only reason they need is that it's Harvard.


You would think they would have learned by now to somewhat of a more certain degree which students would be serious in attending even without the why notre dame essay and just looking at the numbers. My numbers will not get me into the t14 and i would have liked to attend notre dame but i got waitlisted. It seems like they do it to themselves....

also apparently they only accept 25-50 people from the waitlist every year? that seems kind of low...

oneforship
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby oneforship » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:04 pm

finalaspects wrote:
also apparently they only accept 25-50 people from the waitlist every year? that seems kind of low...


I actually thought that was relatively high, considering a 1L class size of ~180

finalaspects
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby finalaspects » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:14 pm

oneforship wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
also apparently they only accept 25-50 people from the waitlist every year? that seems kind of low...


I actually thought that was relatively high, considering a 1L class size of ~180


I guess you're right. Guess i'm worried that i might not be accepted from the waitlist... =I

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:20 pm

finalaspects wrote:
oneforship wrote:
finalaspects wrote:
also apparently they only accept 25-50 people from the waitlist every year? that seems kind of low...


I actually thought that was relatively high, considering a 1L class size of ~180


I guess you're right. Guess i'm worried that i might not be accepted from the waitlist... =I


They might have built that into their routine (WL more and reach deeper), but having to go that far into your WL would kind of reinforce what I was saying earlier. But I wasn't talking about ND or anyone in particular really. It was just really slow around here and I was bored at work.

Anyway, don't let it get you down.

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nevakid
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby nevakid » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:21 pm

Just in case people are wondering where ND is datewise, I went complete on 10/15 and I got a decision yesterday. A nice decision :) .

Numbers are right around their medians, no essay, but I did have some ND specific things in my app that may have functioned as the essay would have.

I know I was always checking complete dates and my mailbox before I got a decision, so I just wanted to provide some info to anyone who is still waiting. Best of luck!

sckon
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby sckon » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:24 pm

nevakid wrote:Just in case people are wondering where ND is datewise, I went complete on 10/15 and I got a decision yesterday. A nice decision :) .

Numbers are right around their medians, no essay, but I did have some ND specific things in my app that may have functioned as the essay would have.

I know I was always checking complete dates and my mailbox before I got a decision, so I just wanted to provide some info to anyone who is still waiting. Best of luck!


congrats. come join us in the other thread if it is a serious consideration for you

Lauren2255
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby Lauren2255 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:15 pm

nevakid - were you ED?

notme
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby notme » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:16 pm

Just a comment on the YP issue. ND seems to like students that are close to both medians, and, like a lot of schools, will wait list splitters. A couple of splitters may make it in on a regular decision basis, but they likely have a unique story that ND likes.

flcath
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby flcath » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:31 am

In reading some of these posts, I'm really, really happy (and lucky) to have gotten in, especially as early as I did.

While I agree that the 175/3.16 was YP, it seems too low for a school like ND to YP (meaning, I could easily see a 175/3.16 student attending ND). Though I guess the WL is a sure-fire way to see who's really interested and who's not.

So I'm looking to visit in January and I submitted the Request for Travel Stipend form (hidden on the Admitted Students page); anybody know how freely they hand out cash for these?

finalaspects
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby finalaspects » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:36 am

flcath wrote:In reading some of these posts, I'm really, really happy (and lucky) to have gotten in, especially as early as I did.

While I agree that the 175/3.16 was YP, it seems too low for a school like ND to YP (meaning, I could easily see a 175/3.16 student attending ND). Though I guess the WL is a sure-fire way to see who's really interested and who's not.

So I'm looking to visit in January and I submitted the Request for Travel Stipend form (hidden on the Admitted Students page); anybody know how freely they hand out cash for these?


I disagree. the 175/3.16 you're referring to got accepted into georgetown and UVA. And im betting a few more t14 will accept this number as well. A few schools under the T14 will most likely give very generous scholarships. And even though there are always a few people who will only care about attending one and only one school, normal people will choose to go someplace else. ND did YP and was smart of them to make sure to see if he was really interested.

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Helmholtz
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:57 am

Finally broke down and used the fee waiver ND sent me a couple of months ago after growing more and more paranoid about this app cycle. Numbers in profile, no Why ND, marked myself as non-religious, and I listed basically the entire T14 as the other schools I have already applied to (lol). Chances I'll be getting one of those WL's like oneforship did?

texasgirl22
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby texasgirl22 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:13 am

Helmholtz wrote:Finally broke down and used the fee waiver ND sent me a couple of months ago after growing more and more paranoid about this app cycle. Numbers in profile, no Why ND, marked myself as non-religious, and I listed basically the entire T14 as the other schools I have already applied to (lol). Chances I'll be getting one of those WL's like oneforship did?


ya possibly...i got WL and my numbers are lower, 168/3.84. i did the same thing you did on the app...no why ND, no religion, and listed the lower half of the T14+texas+BU.

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:20 am

Helmholtz wrote:Finally broke down and used the fee waiver ND sent me a couple of months ago after growing more and more paranoid about this app cycle. Numbers in profile, no Why ND, marked myself as non-religious, and I listed basically the entire T14 as the other schools I have already applied to (lol). Chances I'll be getting one of those WL's like oneforship did?


--ImageRemoved--

sckon
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby sckon » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:04 am

Helmholtz wrote:Finally broke down and used the fee waiver ND sent me a couple of months ago after growing more and more paranoid about this app cycle. Numbers in profile, no Why ND, marked myself as non-religious, and I listed basically the entire T14 as the other schools I have already applied to (lol). Chances I'll be getting one of those WL's like oneforship did?



This was my Why Notre Dame....

Image

Slimpee
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby Slimpee » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:00 am

Wrote my "Why ND" essay last night, will revise and submit today.

Joining the ranks of eager ND applicants!

notme
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby notme » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:36 pm

I think it's difficult for anyone with below a 3.3 to claim YP at a top 25 school, I don't care what their LSAT is. Last cycle I suspect I got YP at some lower ranked schools, but with numbers roughly equivalent to oneforship, I was WL at ND (with a Why ND essay) and accepted off of the wait list late. I also got a low T-14 and UCLA, but, like UCLA, I don't believe ND was concerned with me taking a higher ranked school, I just think they didn't like my gpa, and only accepted me when they knew they didn't have any better options.

I think this is borne out by my experience with other applications. There was a band of wait list schools, above which I was outright rejected. Within the band of schools that wait listed me, the higher ranked schools let me go quickly, and the lower ranked schools accepted me quickly. The remaining schools, in the middle (including ND and UCLA), kept me waiting until the last minute. It's just the nature of the process for splitters.

Now texasgirl22 with a 168/3.84 and no Why ND essay is clearly a YP. They have no reason to believe she would attend if accepted. I suspect that with a convincing Why ND and a few phone calls she would be in very quickly. But, absent unknown circumstances, she is going to USC or above, probably UT.

finalaspects
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby finalaspects » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:52 pm

notme wrote:I think it's difficult for anyone with below a 3.3 to claim YP at a top 25 school, I don't care what their LSAT is. Last cycle I suspect I got YP at some lower ranked schools, but with numbers roughly equivalent to oneforship, I was WL at ND (with a Why ND essay) and accepted off of the wait list late. I also got a low T-14 and UCLA, but, like UCLA, I don't believe ND was concerned with me taking a higher ranked school, I just think they didn't like my gpa, and only accepted me when they knew they didn't have any better options.

I think this is borne out by my experience with other applications. There was a band of wait list schools, above which I was outright rejected. Within the band of schools that wait listed me, the higher ranked schools let me go quickly, and the lower ranked schools accepted me quickly. The remaining schools, in the middle (including ND and UCLA), kept me waiting until the last minute. It's just the nature of the process for splitters.

Now texasgirl22 with a 168/3.84 and no Why ND essay is clearly a YP. They have no reason to believe she would attend if accepted. I suspect that with a convincing Why ND and a few phone calls she would be in very quickly. But, absent unknown circumstances, she is going to USC or above, probably UT.


ND has a problem attracting people with both a high LSAT and high GPA. With the exception being the why ND and with great reasons, where ND feels pretty confident you will attend.

ND's 25% GPA is one of the lowest among the tier 1 law schools at 3.36... I'm betting its the sacrifice of trying to go for a slightly higher LSAT. They are rank 40 or so if you sort by 25% gpa... So its not like they're avoiding low GPA's although it is higher then the 3.3 you stated, but 25% of the applicants have even lower gpa than the 3.36 stated.

Rankings also take into account how many people accept their acceptances, i.e. yield rate so it does matter. (assuming they care about rankings)

same reason why reverse splitters are usually less wanted than regular splitters. high gpas are practically unlimited (given the majors and the schools that can give all their students 4.0s technically) but high lsats are much more limited.

notme
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Re: In at Notre Dame (2013)

Postby notme » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:49 pm

Even if you are correct about the gpa 25th percentile, it doesn't mean that ND, or any other top 25, is eager to grab high LSAT at the cost of very low GPAs in the RD process. It might mean that they believe that the LSAT is a more accurate predictor when it comes to accepting people off of the wait list. [Or it might mean that they admit more legacy or other special circumstance applicants. If this were true I would suspect that Davis/Hastings, with high URM populations, and USC, with a similar alumni network, might also have relatively low 25th percentile figures, but I haven't checked] My point is that I don't think that wait listing a 3.16 can be considered a YP, regardless of LSAT. Beyond that, while a 175 might be great for chosing among low GPA applicants to take off of a wait list, I'm not certain that it carries any significant value over a 170 (or any other number above the 75th percentile at that particular school) for reporting purposes.




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