Fordham Waiting Room

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IAFG
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:56 pm

jrobby6 wrote:I have to add to this, but, while giving tours to prospective students at my undergrad today I randomly met a Fordham 2L. I asked her about her OCI and she said she doesn't have a job lined up this summer. Instead of focusing on the NY legal market, she is shifting gears towards the NJ area. She also claimed that about the top 5% are currently getting jobs as opposed to the 85% in the past. Of course this is a little exaggerated, but I am now weary of even applying. Thoughts?

what is your next best alternative?

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SanBun
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby SanBun » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:11 pm

IAFG wrote:
jrobby6 wrote:I have to add to this, but, while giving tours to prospective students at my undergrad today I randomly met a Fordham 2L. I asked her about her OCI and she said she doesn't have a job lined up this summer. Instead of focusing on the NY legal market, she is shifting gears towards the NJ area. She also claimed that about the top 5% are currently getting jobs as opposed to the 85% in the past. Of course this is a little exaggerated, but I am now weary of even applying. Thoughts?

what is your next best alternative?


jrobby, that's interesting, I didn't think the difference would be b/w 85% and 5%. It's probably exaggerated, but who knows. I recently talked to a friend who's a 2L at UChicago. She says she didn't have a hard time finding a summer job, but she too remarked that at their school only the top 25-30% are really "safe", whereas previously it used to be the vast majority of the class. So you see a similar phenomenon at higher ranked schools, but she did also mention that she hears from friends at the lower ranked schools in Chicago that they are taking a much bigger hit, in addition from having weaker placement statistics to begin with- which only serves to emphasize what I previously said, everyone should thoroughly consider how much $ the school is offering. Sure, the financial situation is improving, but crises take several years to pass, just based on historical example, and one should most definitely incur as little debt as possible. just my $ 0.02

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beebs
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby beebs » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:05 pm

When did this thread blow up into a fight? I'm confused.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:32 pm

jrobby6 wrote:
jk11287 wrote:Just to weigh in on the previous debate (hey, I've got lack of law school acceptances insomnia) without re-igniting the flame, I wouldn't worry too much about job prospects. While the entire legal market obviously took a hit, we have over a year before we really have to even think about that. You can't base your entire career/life on the economy right now. While I'm sure (sorry, no numbers/pictures...only common sense) that a lot of NYC firms may look to NYU/Columbia first to hire, I also know that Fordham places in biglaw exceptionally well when held against comparable schools. And SanBun, while you may be correct that Fordham students' presence at law firms has been declining as of late, I would attribute that just as much to the fact that we they already made up a smaller proportion of the population overall. From what I've read, it doesn't seem like they are cutting Fordham students and keeping NYU/Columbia, but rather a lot of cutting back all around.

And again, not to antagonize, but I think money should be a primary consideration when it comes to Fordham. I think its a great school, I would consider myself lucky to go there...but when it comes down to it, if you're paying sticker price and trying to pay rent in one of the craziest real estate markets on the planet, it is simply a practical concern to try to way the cost/benefit of the school.


I have to add to this, but, while giving tours to prospective students at my undergrad today I randomly met a Fordham 2L. I asked her about her OCI and she said she doesn't have a job lined up this summer. Instead of focusing on the NY legal market, she is shifting gears towards the NJ area. She also claimed that about the top 5% are currently getting jobs as opposed to the 85% in the past. Of course this is a little exaggerated, but I am now weary of even applying. Thoughts?


It's not that bad (meaning it's definitely over 5%), but it's certainly not what it was in years past. This is happening everywhere, even in the T14, and it has people freaked out. Here is the thing to keep in mind. In previous years, between 80 and 90% of students had jobs lined up by graduation (87.9%, the most recent figure according to USNews.) However, at least half of these people did not get their jobs through OCI. Fordham used to place between a third and 40% of the class in NLJ250 jobs, and these are the employers who recruit on campus. People working for public interest organizations and smaller firms generally have to be more proactive and go out and make it happen, by networking (yes, it does suck) and volunteering in the community (which doesn't suck at all, lol.)

OCI has been decimated everywhere. People now have to do a lot more of the latter, because they cannot rely on the former, and this is not what a lot of people bargained for. Fordham was never going to be a biglaw guarantee (in '08, 43.7% of the class took NLJ250 jobs, which I believe is the highest percentage on record), so in theory people knew this when they signed up. However, the school is still very well respected, and our alumni network is gigantic. I know this firsthand, because I had to call alumni to invite them to our public service auction. If you are looking for an easy path to $160k, this is not it. However, I feel that my school has so much more to offer than biglaw. I don't want biglaw myself (probably headed for public service), and while the corporate law program here is strong, it's not really my thing.

People are still getting jobs. I don't think we'll have 85% employed prior to graduation, but it is crazy to claim that you have to be in the top 5% to get a job. Biglaw hiring is definitely down, but by the time 2013 does OCI, things will hopefully be better across the board. I don't know what the biglaw percentage was this year, if this is what your friend was talking about. This is just what I've seen, and it's not unique to Fordham. My friends at HLS are worried, though probably needlessly.

I'm very happy with my choice, though a big part of me wants to stay part time, so I can graduate in '13. I love my life here, and I'm in no hurry to leave, even if I get a fantastic job. My friends all say I should come back one day and be dean of students.

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js87
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby js87 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:17 am

Anyone get merit scholarship info yet? I believe they were sending out some scholarship info in the last couple of days.

Sig218
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby Sig218 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:04 am

IAFG wrote:
Sig218 wrote:
Though to be honest, I wasn't expecting any $$ at all from Fordham, as I heard they're stingy from a couple of people.

dude, check out their LSN stats on money, they are brutal. which is why i offer you the most heartfelt congratulations i can when i am as jealous as i am.


Thanks, it's one of my top choices, as I'm from the NY area.

js87 wrote:Anyone get merit scholarship info yet? I believe they were sending out some scholarship info in the last couple of days.


A couple of us received news, it's a couple of pages back in the thread.

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js87
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby js87 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:46 am

Sig218 wrote:Got the 25k scholarship letter today as well. I assumed it was per year, but I can see where you're coming from. I guess I'll give them a ring on Monday to see.



goodolgil wrote:I just got the scholarship letter in the mail, and I seriously can't tell if they mean the money is per year or over three years ($25,000) because of the way the letter is phrased ("it will be renewed automatically each year, etc...). I'm assuming it's over three years, which is a bummer.




Congrats! Do you guys live in the north east? I'm hoping for scholarship information, but I haven't received anything yet. I live in the south east though, so mail may take longer to reach me.

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ZXCVBNM
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:41 pm

If you are going to law school to make a lot of money then get creative and do s/g else. There are a lot of better ways to make money right now. If on the other hand you really want to be a lawyer and you think you'll enjoy it, then go to school and the rest will work out. I just finished my first semester at Fordham and really enjoyed it. For those that didn't, I'm not sure why they're here....and they aren't either. Don't be one of those people.

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js87
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby js87 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:44 pm

ZXCVBNM wrote:If you are going to law school to make a lot of money then get creative and do s/g else. There are a lot of better ways to make money right now. If on the other hand you really want to be a lawyer and you think you'll enjoy it, then go to school and the rest will work out. I just finished my first semester at Fordham and really enjoyed it. For those that didn't, I'm not sure why they're here....and they aren't either. Don't be one of those people.


Hey, thanks for posting. Do you live in Mcmahon hall? If so, what are your thoughts on it? I know you've only just finished your first semester, but whats the word on campus re: OCI and summer positions?

Thanks.

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SanBun
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby SanBun » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:49 pm

ZXCVBNM wrote:If you are going to law school to make a lot of money then get creative and do s/g else. There are a lot of better ways to make money right now. If on the other hand you really want to be a lawyer and you think you'll enjoy it, then go to school and the rest will work out. I just finished my first semester at Fordham and really enjoyed it. For those that didn't, I'm not sure why they're here....and they aren't either. Don't be one of those people.


+1 very good actually. that's a great way to approach law school.

jk11287
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby jk11287 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:58 pm

I mean, listen, while I hardly believe that only the top 5% are getting jobs at Fordham, its certainly harder now than it was five years ago. That doesn't mean that nobody in the rest of the 95% will ever be employed...maybe it will take a little longer, but this is not the situation for the rest of our lives. People who rank higher (at any school) will have the best job prospects; that's pretty obvious, it has always been this way and it always will. But if you're not willing to go out, get creative, wait for a job, or do something slightly unconventional or for a little less money, maybe you don't have the work ethic to be in law school or the mental fortitude (these aren't insults, by the way...these are very real questions I'm asking myself) to take out 150K loan.

goodolgil
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby goodolgil » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:00 pm

js87 wrote:
Sig218 wrote:Got the 25k scholarship letter today as well. I assumed it was per year, but I can see where you're coming from. I guess I'll give them a ring on Monday to see.



goodolgil wrote:I just got the scholarship letter in the mail, and I seriously can't tell if they mean the money is per year or over three years ($25,000) because of the way the letter is phrased ("it will be renewed automatically each year, etc...). I'm assuming it's over three years, which is a bummer.




Congrats! Do you guys live in the north east? I'm hoping for scholarship information, but I haven't received anything yet. I live in the south east though, so mail may take longer to reach me.


Yeah, I live in NY. I got it on Saturday and it was dated on like Thursday.

ari12345
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby ari12345 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:27 pm

I actually was curious about this...I just got into both BU and Fordham recently, and was really interested in going to BU (better ranking, not sure i want to end up in NY in the long run...). I spoke to someone in HR at a top law firm in NYC and they said if I wanted to work in NYC in the future I HAD to go to Fordham--no questions asked--they haave a killer alumni network and are a NUC powerhouse. But given what else is posted on this forum/the fact that BU is also a great school, I was wondering what everyone else thought. Worth it to go to Fordham over BU? Are the differences in alumni networks/job statistics THAT big?

jk11287
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby jk11287 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:57 pm

ari12345 wrote:I actually was curious about this...I just got into both BU and Fordham recently, and was really interested in going to BU (better ranking, not sure i want to end up in NY in the long run...). I spoke to someone in HR at a top law firm in NYC and they said if I wanted to work in NYC in the future I HAD to go to Fordham--no questions asked--they haave a killer alumni network and are a NUC powerhouse. But given what else is posted on this forum/the fact that BU is also a great school, I was wondering what everyone else thought. Worth it to go to Fordham over BU? Are the differences in alumni networks/job statistics THAT big?

I was actually just thinking along the same lines between Fordham/BU. Honestly, even though BU is ranked higher, from what I've heard, Fordham places so exceptionally well in NYC biglaw...much more than the ranking might imply. That being said, since you're not sure you want to end up in NYC, I'd go to BU because the cost of living is less and it might give you more options outside of NY.

Sig218
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby Sig218 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:32 pm

My letter was dated on the 18th, and I got it on Saturday. I live in the NYC-area.

ari12345 wrote:I actually was curious about this...I just got into both BU and Fordham recently, and was really interested in going to BU (better ranking, not sure i want to end up in NY in the long run...). I spoke to someone in HR at a top law firm in NYC and they said if I wanted to work in NYC in the future I HAD to go to Fordham--no questions asked--they haave a killer alumni network and are a NUC powerhouse. But given what else is posted on this forum/the fact that BU is also a great school, I was wondering what everyone else thought. Worth it to go to Fordham over BU? Are the differences in alumni networks/job statistics THAT big?


At my interview for G-town the other day, my interviewer told me that Fordham has the tightest alumni network he's seen in NYC, much more than any other school. He did say it was a more local school, and felt that the connections for Fordham weren't as strong outside NYC.

Your best bet would probably be to figure out where you see yourself after LS. Figure out how unsure you are working in NY, because if you really don't see yourself in NYC, BU might be a wiser choice.

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englawyer
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby englawyer » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:46 pm

ari12345 wrote:I actually was curious about this...I just got into both BU and Fordham recently, and was really interested in going to BU (better ranking, not sure i want to end up in NY in the long run...). I spoke to someone in HR at a top law firm in NYC and they said if I wanted to work in NYC in the future I HAD to go to Fordham--no questions asked--they haave a killer alumni network and are a NUC powerhouse. But given what else is posted on this forum/the fact that BU is also a great school, I was wondering what everyone else thought. Worth it to go to Fordham over BU? Are the differences in alumni networks/job statistics THAT big?


i believe that BU is above Fordham in the rankings mostly because of the whole Part Time stats debacle. Its probably only going to be a one - year phenomenon. They are very similar in numbers/prestige, but Fordham got shafted through the inclusion of lower numbers from its PT students.

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IAFG
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby IAFG » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:08 pm

rankings =/= placement

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Kim617
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby Kim617 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:16 pm

LaurenGayle wrote:
fenderjsm88 wrote:
H. E. Pennypacker wrote:For those of you looking to kill some time.....

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

I'm a "Rational Mastermind"

sounds about right


The Myers-Briggs has poor test-retest reliability, but I usually end up scoring as an INFP. According to wikipedia, notable INFPs include Neil Diamond, Princess Diana, and Fred Savage...hmm...


Ha -- I always score ENFJ...same as Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Ronald Reagan. Am I missing my calling as the leader of a country?


ENTJ, Rational Fieldmarshal

Fellow ENTJers? Napoleon and Margaret Thatcher.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby OperaSoprano » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:56 pm

Kim617 wrote:
LaurenGayle wrote:
fenderjsm88 wrote:
H. E. Pennypacker wrote:For those of you looking to kill some time.....

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

I'm a "Rational Mastermind"

sounds about right


The Myers-Briggs has poor test-retest reliability, but I usually end up scoring as an INFP. According to wikipedia, notable INFPs include Neil Diamond, Princess Diana, and Fred Savage...hmm...


Ha -- I always score ENFJ...same as Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Ronald Reagan. Am I missing my calling as the leader of a country?


ENTJ, Rational Fieldmarshal

Fellow ENTJers? Napoleon and Margaret Thatcher.


The MBTI is freaking awesome. ENFP here. Ariel from "The Little Mermaid" is an ENFP, and I always related to her.

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danidancer
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby danidancer » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:34 pm

<3 Myers-Briggs. INFJ representing!!! :D

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ZXCVBNM
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby ZXCVBNM » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:47 pm

js87 wrote:
ZXCVBNM wrote:If you are going to law school to make a lot of money then get creative and do s/g else. There are a lot of better ways to make money right now. If on the other hand you really want to be a lawyer and you think you'll enjoy it, then go to school and the rest will work out. I just finished my first semester at Fordham and really enjoyed it. For those that didn't, I'm not sure why they're here....and they aren't either. Don't be one of those people.


Hey, thanks for posting. Do you live in Mcmahon hall? If so, what are your thoughts on it? I know you've only just finished your first semester, but whats the word on campus re: OCI and summer positions?

Thanks.

I don't live in McMahon but I hear its fine. As far as OCI its too soon to say. Last class had a pretty tough time but so did NYU and Columbia...although obviously not as bad. This summer won't be as good as before the economy went south but it should be better than last year. Hopefuly top 25% will get firm jobs. That would be pretty good.

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clem21
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby clem21 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:47 am

beebs wrote:When did this thread blow up into a fight? I'm confused.

I know. There was a fight and I wasn't involved. I feel left out. Let's start a new one. Anyone want to help out? Why does Boston have so much suckitude? Why I wouldn't go to NYU or Columbia even if they had accepted me because Fordham's so awesome? C'mon now, it doesn't actually have to be true! I just want to see some rowdiness up in here!

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AlanShore
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby AlanShore » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:52 am

random rant:

i REALLY WANT TO HEAR BACK BEFORE CHRISTMAS.

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Zapatero
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby Zapatero » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:59 am

AlanShore wrote:random rant:

i REALLY WANT TO HEAR BACK BEFORE CHRISTMAS.


What the hell does "rant" mean?

Burger in a can
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Re: Fordham Waiting Room

Postby Burger in a can » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:11 am

ccs1702 wrote:
AlanShore wrote:random rant:

i REALLY WANT TO HEAR BACK BEFORE CHRISTMAS.


What the hell does "rant" mean?



Main Entry: rant
Pronunciation: \ˈrant\
Function: verb
Etymology: obsolete Dutch ranten, randen
Date: 1601
intransitive verb
1 : to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
2 : to scold vehemently
transitive verb
: to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion
— rant·er noun
— rant·ing·ly \ˈran-tiŋ-lē\ adverb




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