UVA 2010, RD

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showNprove
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby showNprove » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:46 pm

big6 wrote:Maybe I'm mistaken- not an uncommon occurrence- but I don't recall seeing an optional "Why UVA?" essay included in the application instructions/materials. Can you verify whether there is in fact such an essay? I would have absolutely submitted one.

They don't ask for one, but they accept them. Part of the reason for that, I believe, is that if they advertised it on the application, then almost everyone would submit one and they would have a harder time figuring out which ones are genuine. If there has not yet been a decision made on your application, feel free to contact one of the Jasons and ask if you can add one to your file.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:01 pm

rockchalk86 wrote:Vanwinkle... I am complimenting your school for their brilliant strategy so I am not sure why you are so rude and think I am embarrassing myself. Why would UVA do this? Give me one reason that does not involve rankings and money. To make students happier? People are pissed about this. To control class size? This move is neutral in that regard... so why?

This move is not neutral regarding controlling class size. If they admit people ED then the accept:attend ratio is 1:1. If they accept someone RD it can be any range of numbers, and while they have formulas to predict this they're not entirely accurate. The last two years in a row they have lowered acceptances and increased WLs, and yet STILL overenrolled, twice in a row! This year instead of trying to debate if a 3.9/170 is 25% or 30% or 40% likely to attend, they would rather just fill as much as possible with folks who WILL attend so they know for sure.

The ideal scenario for UVA is 360 EDs. Then they can just pick 360 people they like and they're done. In that scenario they need 360 people who want to go there enough to ED that have the numbers they want, and to achieve that they need those 360 people to believe they'll get the same scholarship consideration they would at Michigan, since at this point, while I love UVA, Mich+$$$ > UVA.

Without "high numbered" people believing they can still get money if they ED, they won't get the quality of EDs they want/need to simplify their admissions process. They'll continue to get EDs by the hundred, but not with the numbers they want.

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rockchalk86
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby rockchalk86 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:13 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
rockchalk86 wrote:Vanwinkle... I am complimenting your school for their brilliant strategy so I am not sure why you are so rude and think I am embarrassing myself. Why would UVA do this? Give me one reason that does not involve rankings and money. To make students happier? People are pissed about this. To control class size? This move is neutral in that regard... so why?

This move is not neutral regarding controlling class size. If they admit people ED then the accept:attend ratio is 1:1. If they accept someone RD it can be any range of numbers, and while they have formulas to predict this they're not entirely accurate. The last two years in a row they have lowered acceptances and increased WLs, and yet STILL overenrolled, twice in a row! This year instead of trying to debate if a 3.9/170 is 25% or 30% or 40% likely to attend, they would rather just fill as much as possible with folks who WILL attend so they know for sure.

The ideal scenario for UVA is 360 EDs. Then they can just pick 360 people they like and they're done. In that scenario they need 360 people who want to go there enough to ED that have the numbers they want, and to achieve that they need those 360 people to believe they'll get the same scholarship consideration they would at Michigan, since at this point, while I love UVA, Mich+$$$ > UVA.

Without "high numbered" people believing they can still get money if they ED, they won't get the quality of EDs they want/need to simplify their admissions process. They'll continue to get EDs by the hundred, but not with the numbers they want.


That makes sense in terms of having more control of class size and I did not see that until now... but why change it in the middle of the cycle rather than at the beginning? This is what makes me believe the main reason revolves around rankings and money. If people see some ED people received decent scholarships early in the cycle, they will think they have a chance at one too. Once that contract is in, they no longer can back out and UVA does not need to give them a scholarship. But the fact remains that some ED's received scholarships and when the statistics come out, this will be made clear. But what the statistics will not show are that while the same amount of money (maybe more) was distributed to ED'ers as in previous years, more people will be accepted ED. Why would they not go after high numbered people at this point? It would make no sense. Historically, ED people are usually on the border and want to show their commitment. No self respecting 175+ 3.5+ or even 173 3.4 would ED at Virginia. But i bet plenty will still apply RD.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:25 pm

Well, of course it's going to help their rankings, but the ideal way for it to do so is for "high numbered" applicants to apply ED so UVA can grab them up and make them commit to attending, which simplifies attempts to boost their rankings numbers. In order to get those applicants, the ones who can get $$$, to apply ED they need to convince them they will still get $$$ if they do. If that convinces a 171/3.9 applicant who might have also applied to Michigan to go ED to UVA, UVA wins and Michigan loses.

You're right about everything that's important, but missing how it all ties together. UVA building up their reputation regarding $$$ for EDs boosts the quality of EDs, makes it easier to tie down those applicants to attending UVA, and boosts their rankings. It touches everything. If UVA can keep this up it will both boost rankings AND simplify their cycle for them. It's brilliant.

I think they probably decided mid-cycle to extend ED because of the unusually high level of activity involving RDs switching to ED in November and December. TLS played a part in this, since folks who went RD to ED would get in almost instantly, tell others, and then those others would do the same. With it happening so much they probably started believing there was finally enough interest in ED to try to implement a year-round applicant-commitment strategy.

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rockchalk86
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby rockchalk86 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:40 pm

vanwinkle wrote:Well, of course it's going to help their rankings, but the ideal way for it to do so is for "high numbered" applicants to apply ED so UVA can grab them up and make them commit to attending, which simplifies attempts to boost their rankings numbers. In order to get those applicants, the ones who can get $$$, to apply ED they need to convince them they will still get $$$ if they do. If that convinces a 171/3.9 applicant who might have also applied to Michigan to go ED to UVA, UVA wins and Michigan loses.

You're right about everything that's important, but missing how it all ties together. UVA building up their reputation regarding $$$ for EDs boosts the quality of EDs, makes it easier to tie down those applicants to attending UVA, and boosts their rankings. It touches everything. If UVA can keep this up it will both boost rankings AND simplify their cycle for them. It's brilliant.

I think they probably decided mid-cycle to extend ED because of the unusually high level of activity involving RDs switching to ED in November and December. TLS played a part in this, since folks who went RD to ED would get in almost instantly, tell others, and then those others would do the same. With it happening so much they probably started believing there was finally enough interest in ED to try to implement a year-round applicant-commitment strategy.


So we are in agreement that this move was made for rankings, money, and class control. I just don't see why even a 171 3.9 would apply ED if there was not a really high chance that they would receive significant money. I think it would be foolish for anyone with those numbers to ED with the slight chance of receiving more money from a similarly ranked school, especially ITE. I was always under the impression that ED is mainly used by people who want to get into a reach and don't care about getting money. At this point, the new wave of UVA ED'ers are probably ED'ing because they have yet to get in anywhere decent and just want that security of knowing they will go somewhere good.

This plan is seeming more brilliant by the minute... UVA is playing the psychology game by attracting that select group of high numbered people who just want to know they are going somewhere good by now. I am sure there are plenty of people who feel that way out there... not to mention the December LSAT people who are worried about not getting in anywhere because they applied too late (or think they did).

Maybe I am wrong about the scholarship distribution theory, but I still believe the reasons for the move are rankings, money (and now that you have convinced me) class size... just with more emphasis on money and rankings.

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Jericwithers
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby Jericwithers » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:47 pm

I don't see how an endless ED option allows for them to better control class size. Wouldn't it make it more unpredictable because at any time a person could ED? It makes sense as an early cycle process where they can look at their filled spots and then better understand how many people need acceptances. They run the very real risk of overenrolling with this new option unless they wait until the end of the cycle to make all RD decisions based on the number of available spots. If they wait too long to send out RD decisions though they will likely lose some great applicants who would withdraw.

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YCrevolution
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby YCrevolution » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:50 pm

..

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DallasCowboy
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby DallasCowboy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:04 pm

Do you think that they are going to wait longer than usual for RD decisions?

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triplecats
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby triplecats » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:10 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:Do you think that they are going to wait longer than usual for RD decisions?


I am going to vote yes. I emailed UVa earlier and they replied stating that they had their biggest volume of applications so far this cycle. Given that bit of information, I think it is very likely that admissions decisions from UVa are going to take a little longer than last year.

dakatz
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby dakatz » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:12 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:Do you think that they are going to wait longer than usual for RD decisions?


Of course they are going to wait on us RD's. I think it is a bit insulting to us, but I can see why it benefits them. There are many of us who applied over 3 months ago and have yet to hear a word. And that is because they are playing chicken with us, stringing us along and hoping we will crack and switch to ED out of desperation or anxiety. They have every incentive now to make us wait until the last second.

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DallasCowboy
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby DallasCowboy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:21 pm

Yeah, I could see this backfiring on them. I mean, UVA is my clear #1, but now I am going to have to look more seriously into Duke and Texas, especially if I get $$ at Duke. Others will probably visit and make plans for other ASW's since they haven't heard back from UVA yet.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:29 pm

dakatz wrote:
DallasCowboy wrote:Do you think that they are going to wait longer than usual for RD decisions?


Of course they are going to wait on us RD's. I think it is a bit insulting to us, but I can see why it benefits them. There are many of us who applied over 3 months ago and have yet to hear a word. And that is because they are playing chicken with us, stringing us along and hoping we will crack and switch to ED out of desperation or anxiety. They have every incentive now to make us wait until the last second.

I'm going to disagree that this was their motivation. Last cycle I applied 11/10 and heard nothing until 1/29. They had a huge burst of movement around the end of Jan last year, too, if i remember right. This isn't much different from last year in terms of waiting.

Now, if things go into February and there's still been no real RD movement, that'll be highly suspect. But people need to be patient. We were all freaking out this time last year waiting to hear back, too, this isn't that new or unusual.

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triplecats
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby triplecats » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:32 pm

When did RD movement begin to happen last year, if I may ask? Mid-February?

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:34 pm

triplecats wrote:When did RD movement begin to happen last year, if I may ask? Mid-February?

End of January IIRC.

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triplecats
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby triplecats » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:37 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
triplecats wrote:When did RD movement begin to happen last year, if I may ask? Mid-February?

End of January IIRC.


Thanks! Maybe I'll wait on that LOCI if that's the case. It's been four months... another week or two won't kill me.

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Reedie
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby Reedie » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:41 pm

Alumni! Law schools fund their endowments by alumni contributions. How likely is someone going to be to give money later if UVA fucked them over earlier? How much more likely would they be if they thought UVA had been generous with them? Law schools do not want to graduate a class of pissed of alumns who won't feel any loyalty to the school. They want to graduate a class of people who will continue to support the school, through contributions, word of mouth, and a sense of kinship with other alumni.

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rockchalk86
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby rockchalk86 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:47 pm

Reedie wrote:Alumni! Law schools fund their endowments by alumni contributions. How likely is someone going to be to give money later if UVA fucked them over earlier? How much more likely would they be if they thought UVA had been generous with them? Law schools do not want to graduate a class of pissed of alumns who won't feel any loyalty to the school. They want to graduate a class of people who will continue to support the school, through contributions, word of mouth, and a sense of kinship with other alumni.


Only unemployed alums are pissed off alums. I think If you don't get a scholarship but have a fantastic three years, make tons of friends, play some softball, and find a highly coveted job... you will be plenty happy with your school. I would be more pissed if I got a great scholarship but a shitty job afterwards.

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gatorlion
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby gatorlion » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:00 pm

Now that I have been waitlisted and placed in the RD pool, I believe this is the correct forum for this question:

What are your thoughts on sending an email LOCI versus a letter via snail mail? The waitlist FAQ seems to lean on the side of email (i.e. Is there anything I can do to enhance my chances? E-mail us at lawadmit@virginia.edu. If the University of Virginia is your first choice and you would unhesitatingly accept an offer of admission, this is the time to let us know.). I just want to make sure I take the proper route when sending a LOCI. Thoughts?

showNprove
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby showNprove » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:10 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:Yeah, I could see this backfiring on them. I mean, UVA is my clear #1, but now I am going to have to look more seriously into Duke and Texas, especially if I get $$ at Duke. Others will probably visit and make plans for other ASW's since they haven't heard back from UVA yet.

Have you told them this? Seriously. If you would just call Jason Dugas and talk to him, perhaps write a "Why UVA?" essay, they will look at your application now.

If your serious that UVA is your clear #1, say something. Call them and let them know who you are and what you want.

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DallasCowboy
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby DallasCowboy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:35 pm

PM'd

avacado111
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby avacado111 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:47 pm

gatorlion wrote:Now that I have been waitlisted and placed in the RD pool, I believe this is the correct forum for this question:

What are your thoughts on sending an email LOCI versus a letter via snail mail? The waitlist FAQ seems to lean on the side of email (i.e. Is there anything I can do to enhance my chances? E-mail us at lawadmit@virginia.edu. If the University of Virginia is your first choice and you would unhesitatingly accept an offer of admission, this is the time to let us know.). I just want to make sure I take the proper route when sending a LOCI. Thoughts?


send it to a dean. it will grab their attention.

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gatorlion
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby gatorlion » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:06 am

avacado111 wrote:
gatorlion wrote:Now that I have been waitlisted and placed in the RD pool, I believe this is the correct forum for this question:

What are your thoughts on sending an email LOCI versus a letter via snail mail? The waitlist FAQ seems to lean on the side of email (i.e. Is there anything I can do to enhance my chances? E-mail us at lawadmit@virginia.edu. If the University of Virginia is your first choice and you would unhesitatingly accept an offer of admission, this is the time to let us know.). I just want to make sure I take the proper route when sending a LOCI. Thoughts?


send it to a dean. it will grab their attention.


Email Mahoney/Dugas directly or send a formal letter via snail mail?

clint4law
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby clint4law » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:14 pm

Has Virginia sent out rejections yet? I'm still stuck at:
Current Status: File Complete, Pending Review/Decision
Current Status Date: 11/9/2009

Anyone else share similar dates?

bubba
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby bubba » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:23 pm

clint4law wrote:Has Virginia sent out rejections yet? I'm still stuck at:
Current Status: File Complete, Pending Review/Decision
Current Status Date: 11/9/2009

Anyone else share similar dates?


I'm also complete pending review/decision around mid-November.

avacado111
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby avacado111 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:25 pm

gatorlion wrote:
avacado111 wrote:
gatorlion wrote:Now that I have been waitlisted and placed in the RD pool, I believe this is the correct forum for this question:

What are your thoughts on sending an email LOCI versus a letter via snail mail? The waitlist FAQ seems to lean on the side of email (i.e. Is there anything I can do to enhance my chances? E-mail us at lawadmit@virginia.edu. If the University of Virginia is your first choice and you would unhesitatingly accept an offer of admission, this is the time to let us know.). I just want to make sure I take the proper route when sending a LOCI. Thoughts?


send it to a dean. it will grab their attention.


Email Mahoney/Dugas directly or send a formal letter via snail mail?


Email it directly to Dugas (not Mahoney...) I am sorry... I meant dean of admissions not of the law school.




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