UVA 2010, RD

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:02 pm

VoidSix wrote:
crackberry wrote:
VoidSix wrote:
puppins wrote:Why bologna and not other various cold cuts?


Funnier name. Slightly slimier. That much more humiliating.

What about rotten bananas and newspaper? Really hard to get off.


This is why I love crackberry. How about we go halvsies?

Deadly combo.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:03 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:Crackberry got into Stanford he doesn't belong anywhere near this thread.

It's a rainy day in the Bay Area, there's nothing on TV, I've already worked out and I'm not seeing Invictus until after the Heisman ceremony. What else am I going to do?

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:07 pm

crackberry wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:Crackberry got into Stanford he doesn't belong anywhere near this thread.

It's a rainy day in the Bay Area, there's nothing on TV, I've already worked out and I'm not seeing Invictus until after the Heisman ceremony. What else am I going to do?


Mark Ingram is totally going to win the Heisman, so if your just going to watch it to cheer Gerhart you should just go see the movie.

http://www.stiffarmtrophy.com/

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puppleberry finn
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby puppleberry finn » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:11 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:Crackberry got into Stanford he doesn't belong anywhere near this thread.


Crackberry >>>> us. that's why his advice ITT is invaluable.

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Kronk
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby Kronk » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:12 pm

Suh for Heisman. But Gerhardt will win it.

P.S. Let me just tell you now how incredibly hard it is for me to root for a Nebraska player to win the Heisman.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:17 pm

VoidSix wrote:Suh for Heisman. But Gerhardt will win it.

P.S. Let me just tell you now how incredibly hard it is for me to root for a Nebraska player to win the Heisman.


No Ingram is a virtual lock to win, stiffarmtrophy.com projected him to win, and they have correctly predicted the last 7 heisman winners. The race is pretty much over.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:18 pm

VoidSix wrote:Suh for Heisman. But Gerhardt will win it.

P.S. Let me just tell you now how incredibly hard it is for me to root for a Nebraska player to win the Heisman.

It's going to be really close between Suh, Gerhart and Ingram. I think any one of them could win and I think the gap between first and third won't be more than 2 or 3 percentage points. Obviously I'm rooting for Toby, but I do think Ingram will win.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:19 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:
VoidSix wrote:Suh for Heisman. But Gerhardt will win it.

P.S. Let me just tell you now how incredibly hard it is for me to root for a Nebraska player to win the Heisman.


No Ingram is a virtual lock to win, stiffarmtrophy.com projected him to win, and they have correctly predicted the last 7 heisman winners. The race is pretty much over.

Yet if you read the fine print, they hedge their bets and say they want to call it too close to call.

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Kronk
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby Kronk » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:20 pm

If Ingram wins, it means that the best player on the best team = Heisman. Not that the best player wins the Heisman. I don't think you can argue with Suh as the best defensive player and Gerhardt as the best offensive player.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:24 pm

VoidSix wrote:If Ingram wins, it means that the best player on the best team = Heisman. Not that the best player wins the Heisman. I don't think you can argue with Suh as the best defensive player and Gerhardt as the best offensive player.

Unfortunately, this is the way the Heisman has been decided for the past 15 or so years. Jason White, Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Troy Smith, Tim Tebow. The list goes on and on.

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DallasCowboy
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby DallasCowboy » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:24 pm

Tebow won when his team had 4 losses.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:26 pm

crackberry wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
VoidSix wrote:Suh for Heisman. But Gerhardt will win it.

P.S. Let me just tell you now how incredibly hard it is for me to root for a Nebraska player to win the Heisman.


No Ingram is a virtual lock to win, stiffarmtrophy.com projected him to win, and they have correctly predicted the last 7 heisman winners. The race is pretty much over.

Yet if you read the fine print, they hedge their bets and say they want to call it too close to call.


True, but the margin with which Ingram leads is on the extreme fringe for the margin of error with that many votes counted.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:27 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:Tebow won when his team had 4 losses.

True. And he did have a good year that year; it's the media obsession with him the past two years that has driven me crazy.

Troy Smith, Eric Crouch and Jason White are the better examples. Those are not Heisman-worthy winners. They just happened to be the QBs of good teams.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:29 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:True, but the margin with which Ingram leads is on the extreme fringe for the margin of error with that many votes counted.

Honestly, I agree with you that Ingram will probably win. But to say it's over is a little premature. I think it will be very very close. If you look at the breakdown of votes they've confirmed, there are a ton from the Southeast which will obviously be Ingram's strongest region.

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DallasCowboy
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby DallasCowboy » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:30 pm

I think Gerhart can win with the Big 12 vote split over McCoy/Suh and and SEC split between Ingram/Tebow (slightly).
Last edited by DallasCowboy on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:31 pm

VoidSix wrote:If Ingram wins, it means that the best player on the best team = Heisman. Not that the best player wins the Heisman. I don't think you can argue with Suh as the best defensive player and Gerhardt as the best offensive player.


Suh is the best player in the country. But the argument that it is clear that Gerhardt is better than Ingram is absurd. Ingram had a full yard more per carry, the most 15+ yard plays in the country, played in the best conference in the country, and had only 40 total yards less than Gerhart, without playing in one full game and missing a half in the other, while playing with a quarterback who was incompetent for 80% of the season.

Ingram also had his best games of the year against the the #1, #7, and #9 teams in the country.

I'm not saying that he is better than Gerhart, just that the argument that it is clearly settled is flawed.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:34 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:Suh is the best player in the country. But the argument that it is clear that Gerhardt is better than Ingram is absurd. Ingram had a full yard more per carry, the most 15+ yard plays in the country, played in the best conference in the country, and had only 40 total yards less than Gerhart, without playing in one full game and missing a half in the other, while playing with a quarterback who was incompetent for 80% of the season.

Ingram also had his best games of the year against the the #1, #7, and #9 teams in the country.

I'm not saying that he is better than Gerhart, just that the argument that it is clearly settled is flawed.

Gerhart had the most carries, the most yards and the most rushing TDs in the country. I think they are both great college RBs (Ingram will be a way better pro).

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Kronk
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby Kronk » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:36 pm

Gerhardt was much, much more consistent than Ingram over the course of the year and made something out of nothing with Stanford. Insert another good running back in Ingram's place and the Tide are probably still undefeated headed to the BCS Champs.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:42 pm

VoidSix wrote:Gerhardt was much, much more consistent than Ingram over the course of the year and made something out of nothing with Stanford. Insert another good running back in Ingram's place and the Tide are probably still undefeated headed to the BCS Champs.



Not true, without Ingram, Bama loses to Virginia Tech and South Carolina. In SEC game Ingram averaged 140 yards per game, which is incredible for that conference. Gerhardt also had the luxury of playing with Andrew Luck who most scouts consider a near lock to be a first round pick in a couple of years.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:42 pm

VoidSix wrote:Gerhardt was much, much more consistent than Ingram over the course of the year and made something out of nothing with Stanford. Insert another good running back in Ingram's place and the Tide are probably still undefeated headed to the BCS Champs.

Yeah also, Toby did what he did against better overall competition than Ingram. Yes, the top of the SEC is better than the top of the Pac-10 of course, but the Pac-10 has more depth, and Ingram played some cupcake games non-conference.

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crackberry
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby crackberry » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:44 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:
VoidSix wrote:Gerhardt was much, much more consistent than Ingram over the course of the year and made something out of nothing with Stanford. Insert another good running back in Ingram's place and the Tide are probably still undefeated headed to the BCS Champs.



Not true, without Ingram, Bama loses to Virginia Tech and South Carolina. In SEC game Ingram averaged 140 yards per game, which is incredible for that conference. Gerhardt also had the luxury of playing with Andrew Luck who most scouts consider a near lock to be a first round pick in a couple of years.

Yeah but Luck is a freshman. He has a ton of potential, but he played like a freshman at times. Toby carried that team. Also, our receivers are awful. Luck didn't have many targets and teams knew what was coming: all Toby, all the time.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:45 pm

crackberry wrote:
VoidSix wrote:Gerhardt was much, much more consistent than Ingram over the course of the year and made something out of nothing with Stanford. Insert another good running back in Ingram's place and the Tide are probably still undefeated headed to the BCS Champs.

Yeah also, Toby did what he did against better overall competition than Ingram. Yes, the top of the SEC is better than the top of the Pac-10 of course, but the Pac-10 has more depth, and Ingram played some cupcake games non-conference.


While Ingram did play some cupcake games, against North Texas, UT Chatanooga, and Florida International he only had 240 yards total in those game, sitting out due to some injuries, and Bama playing second string guys most of the second half. He played his best games against #7 Va Tech, #1 Florida, #9 LSU, #24 South Carolina. The idea that Ingram put up his numbers against the cup cakes is a fallacy.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:46 pm

Clearly, a battle between a Stanford Student and an Alabama resident will have some built in biases 8)

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Kronk
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby Kronk » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:49 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:
VoidSix wrote:Gerhardt was much, much more consistent than Ingram over the course of the year and made something out of nothing with Stanford. Insert another good running back in Ingram's place and the Tide are probably still undefeated headed to the BCS Champs.



Not true, without Ingram, Bama loses to Virginia Tech and South Carolina. In SEC game Ingram averaged 140 yards per game, which is incredible for that conference. Gerhardt also had the luxury of playing with Andrew Luck who most scouts consider a near lock to be a first round pick in a couple of years.



Might as well give Tennessee the W if you're going to give it to South Carolina and Vanderbilt as well. I understand your argument, though I tend to think that Ingram had great blockers and Alambama had a great line and great receivers. In certain systems, anyone with good skill is going to thrive. Think about the Denver Broncos in the early 2000s and late 1990s. Almost any runningback that got placed into their system rushed for 1200-1500+ in a season. Just my opinion. There are many runningbacks not in consideration for the Heisman that I feel could've had only a slightly worse season than Ingram if they started for Alabama.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: UVA 2010, RD

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:54 pm

VoidSix wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
VoidSix wrote:Gerhardt was much, much more consistent than Ingram over the course of the year and made something out of nothing with Stanford. Insert another good running back in Ingram's place and the Tide are probably still undefeated headed to the BCS Champs.



Not true, without Ingram, Bama loses to Virginia Tech and South Carolina. In SEC game Ingram averaged 140 yards per game, which is incredible for that conference. Gerhardt also had the luxury of playing with Andrew Luck who most scouts consider a near lock to be a first round pick in a couple of years.



Might as well give Tennessee the W if you're going to give it to South Carolina and Vanderbilt as well. I understand your argument, though I tend to think that Ingram had great blockers and Alambama had a great line and great receivers. In certain systems, anyone with good skill is going to thrive. Think about the Denver Broncos in the early 2000s and late 1990s. Almost any runningback that got placed into their system rushed for 1200-1500+ in a season. Just my opinion. There are many runningbacks not in consideration for the Heisman that I feel could've had only a slightly worse season than Ingram if they started for Alabama.


FYI, Ingram lead the country in Yards after contact. Also, do you really believe that if Ingram played for Stanford he wouldn't have put up similar numbers to Gerhardt? If Gerhardt played for Bama he might be 3rd string.




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