UVA 2010, RD Forum

[berkeleykel06]

Oh no. YP'ed at a top 10 school. How annoying that must be for you all.

[r6_philly]

171/3.8 is still guaranteed UVa YP. hth

What about me? same?

[vanwinkle]

I think Virginia state law mandates the 40% requirement, similar to Texas, Michigan, and North Carolina.

This is correct, at least regarding UVA and UT. I don't know about Michigan or UNC enough to say but I imagine it's similar.

[memaha]

So I know I am probably gonna take a lot of heat for this, but I just want to say this once and for all. I know most of you guys (if not all) getting WLed this week are people with amazing numbers (number that I would have loved to put next to my name), and are obviously stunned at why UVA isn't accepting you. BUT at the same time, most of you people are also applying to T-6s AND getting into them.
From UVA's perspective, why should they accept you, when they have a pretty damn good idea that you will NOT be matriculating there. Yes, they should accept you because you are all amazing candidates and have clearly proven your academic and intellectual abilities, but UVA also has every right to protect their yield and assume that you are going to get into a better school and therefore attend that school.
UVA might be taking all the ED candidates they can, even if those candidates have lower numbers (aka ME) BUT the ED applicants are telling UVA "I WANT NOTHING MORE THAN TO BE AT YOUR SCHOOL." So if you didn't ED, especially since UVA gave everyone until March 1st this year to do so, they have every right to assume if you have great numbers (like most of you all do) and haven't committed yourself to three years in the middle of nowhere because you like the school THAT much, then you probably will be going to HYSCCN...
So yes, be mad that they WLed you, but also notice how pretty much all of you immediately withdrew... clearly proving that UVA's YPing was the right move on their part.

So let the bashing begin...

[booboo]

Wasn't going to login, but this post warranted it.

It isn't just about getting into schools that some of these posters may have numbers that are superior to what they usually accept.

It could also be driven by the desire to get a scholarship to law school. Exceeding both 75%s usually grants a large amount of scholarship money, that could sway decisions and ultimately allow people that you may think are T6 bound to attend a "lowly" T10.

hth.

[r6_philly]

Wasn't going to login, but this post warranted it.

It isn't just about getting into schools that some of these posters may have numbers that are superior to what they usually accept.

It could also be driven by the desire to get a scholarship to law school. Exceeding both 75%s usually grants a large amount of scholarship money, that could sway decisions and ultimately allow people that you may think are T6 bound to attend a "lowly" T10.

hth.

+1

If it is between T6 and T10 with half to full scholly I really have to take a long time to think about it. I would take the time to visit every school and consider all options. I have no desire for big law, and I don't know if I will be able to make 150 out of the gate, so paying sticker is something I am not really thrilled to do. I admit HYS may be different, but no matter people who are getting WL'ed have shoo-in HYS numbers (and if there is such a thing).

I used to drive down to Danville once a month. I love mid/southern VA. People tell me I wouldn't like being a small town such as Charlottesville, they just don't know me. People from the metro areas may not actually like metro areas. It is fair to presume that one would not attend if comparing sticker, but I think people applying to lower ranked with >75% numbers in hope to get some $ offer, and being on 5 WL's is not going to help that happy and no one wants to wait until June to decide. Having good numbers are supposed to give you more options, I thought.

[berkeleykel06]

Wasn't going to login, but this post warranted it.

It isn't just about getting into schools that some of these posters may have numbers that are superior to what they usually accept.

It could also be driven by the desire to get a scholarship to law school. Exceeding both 75%s usually grants a large amount of scholarship money, that could sway decisions and ultimately allow people that you may think are T6 bound to attend a "lowly" T10.

hth.

...in which case UVA clearly doesn't have the ability to offer them the scholarship money necessary to lure them away from top schools, so they aren't going to waste anyone's time accepting them knowing they won't attend. They can't offer huge scholarships to every highly qualified candidate that applies. Point still stands that if you are good enough to get YP'd by UVA, you probably got into better schools and have scholarship offers from other T14 schools.

[memaha]

I do agree with both of you on the issue of getting $$. And I think it does suck if you have numbers that will get you into T6s but financially need $$ offers from MVP and then are getting shut out and WLed at all three of them. That does suck. A T-6 vs. a T-10 with $$ is definitely a harder choice (unless like r6_philly said, its HYS, which is a whole other thing).

But, I am mainly focusing on the responses that people have been throwing out there about how they didn't even want to go to UVA anyways, and how UVA doesn't compare to the others for location/academia/whatever. Yes if you wanted to get a $$ offer from UVA, I understand your frustration. But what I don't understand are the people whom are making it pretty obvious, after getting WLed that they never considered UVA as a top choice anyways, $$ or no $$.

[thickfreakness]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

[memaha]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

I really don't think you would get the YP, but who knows. And I stalk this site wayy too much for my own good, so I do know that you want UVA. And I'm definitely pulling for you to get that call!

[fouronthe4loor]

I do agree with both of you on the issue of getting $$. And I think it does suck if you have numbers that will get you into T6s but financially need $$ offers from MVP and then are getting shut out and WLed at all three of them. That does suck. A T-6 vs. a T-10 with $$ is definitely a harder choice (unless like r6_philly said, its HYS, which is a whole other thing).

But, I am mainly focusing on the responses that people have been throwing out there about how they didn't even want to go to UVA anyways, and how UVA doesn't compare to the others for location/academia/whatever. Yes if you wanted to get a $$ offer from UVA, I understand your frustration. But what I don't understand are the people whom are making it pretty obvious, after getting WLed that they never considered UVA as a top choice anyways, $$ or no $$.

+1

[berkeleykel06]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

Doesn't UVA ask you what other schools you're applying to on their application? Hopefully they'll see that and not YP you. Its clear by the fact that you applied to a small group of southern schools that UVA is definitely somewhere you would go if admitted. It might also be helpful to send them a preemptive LOCI and make it clear you plan to attend if accepted, but I feel good about your chances regardless.

[0L Hoping for 1]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

I dont think your numbers are YP category to be honest. If you wrote a why uva, you have a good shot. I got in with a 3.8/173

[r6_philly]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

Doesn't UVA ask you what other schools you're applying to on their application? Hopefully they'll see that and not YP you. Its clear by the fact that you applied to a small group of southern schools that UVA is definitely somewhere you would go if admitted. It might also be helpful to send them a preemptive LOCI and make it clear you plan to attend if accepted, but I feel good about your chances regardless.

I don't remember UVA asking. I also applied to Duke/WM if that shows that I am actually interested in considering the area but I don't think they would find out.

[vanwinkle]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

TELL THEM THIS.

The best way to avoid YP is to say you'd actually attend if accepted.

[ReelectClayDavis]

Good points about how YP can work against someone who has the numbers for a T-6 but really wants to attend a T-10 with $$, but I don't see an easy way to make the system better even if yield is not considered.

On LSN for this cycle, there are 103 people with both a 3.85+ and 170+ (at or above Virginia's medians).

There are 298 at or above 75th percentile LSAT splitter applicants (GPA <3.85 and LSAT >170).

All of these people have great numbers, probably feel "entitled" to some merit money, and have other excellent options in the T-14. It seems like the sentiment of some in this thread is that UVA should be admitting almost all of these candidates and making them large scholarship offers.

Can UVA really risk doing that though? Don't have time to crunch the numbers yet while at work, but >298 massive merit offers (understatement since many are not on LSN) must be a huge amount.

What if they offer lots of these applicants half to full tuition and many many more people accept the large scholarship offer than they predicted? Fearing this, they might spread the aid too thin and then end up attracting no-one (I think Georgetown may have this problem . . .)?

The best way for them to attract a number of people between someone and no one with their limited financial aid resources is to make a few people amazing offers they can't refuse. Those YPed people are unfortunately not those people.

The way you can make yourself into one of those people is to ED. UVA recognizes this, they give merit money even to people who ED. Dean Trujillo himself said that they do not screw over ED applicants on merit aid. So it seems that if you really would choose UVA with $$ over a T-6 you should prove it by applying ED.

[thickfreakness]

Good points about how YP can work against someone who has the numbers for a T-6 but really wants to attend a T-10 with $$, but I don't see an easy way to make the system better even if yield is not considered.

On LSN for this cycle, there are 103 people with both a 3.85+ and 170+ (at or above Virginia's medians).

There are 298 at or above 75th percentile LSAT splitter applicants (GPA <3.85 and LSAT >170).

All of these people have great numbers, probably feel "entitled" to some merit money, and have other excellent options in the T-14. It seems like the sentiment of some in this thread is that UVA should be admitting almost all of these candidates and making them large scholarship offers.

Can UVA really risk doing that though? Don't have time to crunch the numbers yet while at work, but >298 massive merit offers (understatement since many are not on LSN) must be a huge amount.

What if they offer lots of these applicants half to full tuition and many many more people accept the large scholarship offer than they predicted? Fearing this, they might spread the aid too thin and then end up attracting no-one (I think Georgetown may have this problem . . .)?

The best way for them to attract a number of people between someone and no one with their limited financial aid resources is to make a few people amazing offers they can't refuse. Those YPed people are unfortunately not those people.

The way you can make yourself into one of those people is to ED. UVA recognizes this, they give merit money even to people who ED. Dean Trujillo himself said that they do not screw over ED applicants on merit aid. So it seems that if you really would choose UVA with $$ over a T-6 you should prove it by applying ED.

tl;dr

But your avatar is awesome.

[berkeleykel06]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

Doesn't UVA ask you what other schools you're applying to on their application? Hopefully they'll see that and not YP you. Its clear by the fact that you applied to a small group of southern schools that UVA is definitely somewhere you would go if admitted. It might also be helpful to send them a preemptive LOCI and make it clear you plan to attend if accepted, but I feel good about your chances regardless.

I don't remember UVA asking. I also applied to Duke/WM if that shows that I am actually interested in considering the area but I don't think they would find out.

You're right; I just double-checked their application and they don't ask about other schools applied to. So then LOCI, for sure.

[r6_philly]

I wonder if schools banking on more applicants this year will end up not filling their class in June. It seems like a lot of people are getting WL'ed everywhere. There has to be a huge amount of movement later this year. I wonder if some people wouldn't just get off the lists and settle for a slightly less school that they have been accepted by. I think gaming the lists may end up hurting the schools trying to YP should the increase in applicants are not that high or if the quality of the increased applicants are not that high.

ED isn't going to help anyone with T6 numbers. People with T6 numbers want to weigh all options. Maybe they can make merit aid a binding contract with a short window so if you don't take it they can offer to the next guy. Like a WL for merit aid.

[tommytahoe]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

TELL THEM THIS.

The best way to avoid YP is to say you'd actually attend if accepted.

That there is the most pertinent piece of information. Whether someone does o does not do as vanwinkle suggests is the difference between someone overqualified who is upset b/c he really wants to attend (ie, not get YP'ed), and someone who is overqualified who is upset b/c their numbers indicate that they should get accepted at this school whose 75th percentiles are below both their LSAT and their GPA.

I'm going to send UVA repeated, and strategically drafted LOCI love letters that I hope will catch their attention. I am fairly certain they would take my love to heart if my LSAT were 8 points higher.


btw, anyone know how many folks re on the WL right now, pre-seat deposit pull-outs?

[ReelectClayDavis]

tl;dr

But your avatar is awesome.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeit partner, tl;dr for that? Must have owned LG and LR to get your score :p

Summary:your numbers are impressive but not very unique. If UVA treated everyone with your 75th percentile numbers like you wanted - acceptance and large scholarship offer - they'd risk going broke.

You should have EDed, becuase Dean Trujillo still gives phat schollys sufficient to lure you from CCN.

[thickfreakness]

tl;dr

But your avatar is awesome.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeit partner, tl;dr for that? Must have owned LG and LR to get your score :p

Summary:your numbers are impressive but not very unique. If UVA treated everyone with your 75th percentile numbers like you wanted - acceptance and large scholarship offer - they'd risk going broke.

You should have EDed, becuase Dean Trujillo still gives phat schollys sufficient to lure you from CCN.

I did actually read the post and I definitely understand and agree with you. I'm trying to minimize the whining and such, but it is tough to keep waiting while other people are dropping like flies. ED isn't an option for me not only because of the financial risk, but also because I really want to visit and heavily consider my few options. UVA is definitely the top choice, but it's not the only place I'd be absolutely thrilled to attend.

Also, I scored worst on LG and only -2 on the dreaded sculptors passage for RC, lol.

[Kohinoor]

<---- Wants UVA, no T6 applications out, fears the YP.

I dont think your numbers are YP category to be honest. If you wrote a why uva, you have a good shot. I got in with a 3.8/173

sounds like YP

[Dignan]

Waitlisted. I'm stunned.

Enjoy Boalt.

Blatant anti-CLS trolling.

[bgdddymtty]

I do agree with both of you on the issue of getting $$. And I think it does suck if you have numbers that will get you into T6s but financially need $$ offers from MVP and then are getting shut out and WLed at all three of them. That does suck. A T-6 vs. a T-10 with $$ is definitely a harder choice (unless like r6_philly said, its HYS, which is a whole other thing).

But, I am mainly focusing on the responses that people have been throwing out there about how they didn't even want to go to UVA anyways, and how UVA doesn't compare to the others for location/academia/whatever. Yes if you wanted to get a $$ offer from UVA, I understand your frustration. But what I don't understand are the people whom are making it pretty obvious, after getting WLed that they never considered UVA as a top choice anyways, $$ or no $$.

+1

It's clear that UVa has a rationale in their admissions. They want students who actually want to come to their school. They don't want students that they have to pay to have them show up. They probably give out as much scholarship money as their peers, but they don't use it to beg for students. They apparently get enough ED apps to fill their incoming class, and they probably think that those students will add more to the educational and social atmosphere than students with bigger numbers who feel entitled to admission but would only accept if they didn't have to pay tuition.

Think of it like dating. A guy is looking for a date. He can ask out either of two girls. The first is smokin' hot, but she has given little indication that she is particularly interested in the guy. She might be willing to go out with him, but probably only if he takes her someplace really fancy and expensive. Even then, she might turn him down and go out with the big man on campus, H.Y. Stanford. Also, she's let the guy know that if he asks her out, she's going to wait to see what her other Friday night offers are before getting back to him.

The second girl is pretty, though not nearly so much as the first. However, she has told the guy that she really likes him and wants to date him. She doesn't care if they go to Chez Quis, even though that would be nice. In contrast with the hot chick, this girl would immediately accept a date request from this guy.

If you're the hot chick and the guy ends up asking the "just pretty" girl out, do you really have any room to complain?