Cornell waiting room

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Rawlsian
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Rawlsian » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:17 pm

GermX wrote:I didn't say for D.C., I meant in general for big law Cornell is better.


Yea, RC fail on my part.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Jericwithers » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:49 pm

GermX wrote:NeXP, Cornell is an ivy league school and so is on the #1 list for most firms in terms of sending people to work. GW is an incredible school in the top 20 but you're talking about a school that competes with GULC for D.C. jobs. If you go to Cornell, you won't have to compete as hard because of its status, while with GW, while you most definately can get that amazing job, you will need to bust your ass for it a little harder.

Just my 2 cents. I personally would consider GW if you love your boyfriend and want to stay in the D.C.


Yes but doesn't Cornell have to compete on a different league with the likes of better schools in that market? Harvard? NYU? Virginia? Duke? There is a lot of competition in DC and maybe being in a local school market might be beneficial. I doubt the ivy league pull of cornell throws it over all the other top schools going to DC, and it might just put you at a higher level of competition.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:53 pm

Just got in via email this morning.

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jks289
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby jks289 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:55 pm

LieutKaffee wrote:Just got in via email this morning.


Congrats! Are you planning to attend?

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm

jks289 wrote:
LieutKaffee wrote:Just got in via email this morning.


Congrats! Are you planning to attend?


I'm pretty set on Northwestern, actually. Good luck everyone! And thanks :)

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jks289
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby jks289 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:57 pm

LieutKaffee wrote:
jks289 wrote:
LieutKaffee wrote:Just got in via email this morning.


Congrats! Are you planning to attend?


I'm pretty set on Northwestern, actually. Good luck everyone! And thanks :)


I thought I saw that elsewhere. (Are you in at Duke off PT reserve as well?) Great options all around!

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:01 pm

jks289 wrote:
LieutKaffee wrote:
jks289 wrote:
LieutKaffee wrote:Just got in via email this morning.


Congrats! Are you planning to attend?


I'm pretty set on Northwestern, actually. Good luck everyone! And thanks :)


I thought I saw that elsewhere. (Are you in at Duke off PT reserve as well?) Great options all around!


Duke waitlisted me back in November and I withdrew a few weeks ago.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:16 pm

NeXP wrote:
woeisme wrote:
NeXP wrote:Connections ARE invaluable here. The two ways to get hired on the Hill are to a) know someone or b) have gone to Harvard. Other trouble is, I dislike DC and would really like to return to NY (my home and native land), but they're unlikely to relocate the Capitol there anytime soon.

I'm on the GULC preferred waitlist for P/T. Not holding out much hope for that.

I suppose instead of hijacking this thread I should start my own :D


In general, I think Cornell is a "better" choice than GULC. Let alone GULC PT. Let alone GW. Go to Cornell.


Out of curiosity, why do you think Cornell is better than GULC? Or at least sufficiently better to go to Ithaca for it?


Generally better job prospects, higher sense of community, easier to form relationships (defined however you'd like) with professors, more opportunities to get involved in activities (this largely being a factor of the size difference), and then a heap of personal preference reasons that may or may not apply to you.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:18 pm

Rawlsian wrote:I doubt Cornell is better than GW for D.C.


lol, it is. I guarantee you.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:22 pm

GermX wrote:I didn't say for D.C., I meant in general for big law Cornell is better.


But even for DC it is.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Jericwithers » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:33 pm

woeisme wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:I doubt Cornell is better than GW for D.C.


lol, it is. I guarantee you.


Any evidence? Just wondering for the sake of the person trying to make a decision.

I myself can see the 'no brainer' explanation for Cornell at the same price as GW, but I don't have the ties or narrow focus on DC as the OP seems to have.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:58 pm

Jericwithers wrote:
woeisme wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:I doubt Cornell is better than GW for D.C.


lol, it is. I guarantee you.


Any evidence? Just wondering for the sake of the person trying to make a decision.

I myself can see the 'no brainer' explanation for Cornell at the same price as GW, but I don't have the ties or narrow focus on DC as the OP seems to have.


Actually, I forgot that OP wanted to do governmental work. I was talking more about clerkships and/or corporate firm prospects. Cornell has the edge there as demonstrated by who shows up at recruiting events (since pure numbers alone may not be that representative). But as for government work, I thought the rule of thumb was still "go to the best school you can." Now I can see arguing for GULC over Cornell or Duke over Northwestern or Cornell over Michigan or whatever based on preferences and what not. But GW and Cornell are just not peer schools at all. I haven't done my own research on the issue of government work, but everything I've heard tells me that Cornell is the better move. And I feel like that conclusion is further compelled here given that OP's significant other is willing to move with him/her and OP has not received any money from GW. Ithaca is certainly cheaper than DC, right? Even if Cornell costs more than GW (no idea that it does, but even if it does).

Choosing GW for personal reasons is defensible, but I still don't see how it's a close call on the merits.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Jericwithers » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:12 pm

woeisme wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:
woeisme wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:I doubt Cornell is better than GW for D.C.


lol, it is. I guarantee you.


Any evidence? Just wondering for the sake of the person trying to make a decision.

I myself can see the 'no brainer' explanation for Cornell at the same price as GW, but I don't have the ties or narrow focus on DC as the OP seems to have.


Actually, I forgot that OP wanted to do governmental work. I was talking more about clerkships and/or corporate firm prospects. Cornell has the edge there as demonstrated by who shows up at recruiting events (since pure numbers alone may not be that representative). But as for government work, I thought the rule of thumb was still "go to the best school you can." Now I can see arguing for GULC over Cornell or Duke over Northwestern or Cornell over Michigan or whatever based on preferences and what not. But GW and Cornell are just not peer schools at all. I haven't done my own research on the issue of government work, but everything I've heard tells me that Cornell is the better move. And I feel like that conclusion is further compelled here given that OP's significant other is willing to move with him/her and OP has not received any money from GW. Ithaca is certainly cheaper than DC, right? Even if Cornell costs more than GW (no idea that it does, but even if it does).

Choosing GW for personal reasons is defensible, but I still don't see how it's a close call on the merits.


I don't see how you get that idea that Cornell is better at DC than GW from the recruiting numbers. 72 DC firms (44 paying $145k+) go to GW for OCI while 13 firms (10 paying $145k+) go to Cornell. As a base line for comparison, Duke gets 46 DC firms 30 with $145k+ and NU has 30 total and 23 'market' paying. Seems obvious from a recruiting standpoint where to go if you want DC.

I am not aware of the conventional wisdom that to get a fed job you should go to the best school possible, but I am sure it is out there. I heard that you should work as hard as possible at whatever school you are at in order to secure an elite government job, and that DC connections/networking is key for fed jobs. The government is a fickle employer though, so no telling how one actually gets a job there.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:17 pm

Jericwithers wrote:
I don't see how you get that idea that Cornell is better at DC than GW from the recruiting numbers. 72 DC firms (44 paying $145k+) go to GW for OCI while 13 firms (10 paying $145k+) go to Cornell. As a base line for comparison, Duke gets 46 DC firms 30 with $145k+ and NU has 30 total and 23 'market' paying. Seems obvious from a recruiting standpoint where to go if you want DC.


Which year are you talking about? And are you including the DC Job Fair? Cornell has a job fair that goes to DC.

ETA: I'm unclear on where you get those numbers to begin with. But having gone through OCI I can tell you that there are many more DC firms than that. Many times we'll have a NY firm representative do the interviews, but will then send the info off to the DC office. I thought that was typical of every school, but perhaps not. Maybe your stats aren't including those firms?

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JCougar
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby JCougar » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:26 pm

Jericwithers wrote:

I don't see how you get that idea that Cornell is better at DC than GW from the recruiting numbers. 72 DC firms (44 paying $145k+) go to GW for OCI while 13 firms (10 paying $145k+) go to Cornell. As a base line for comparison, Duke gets 46 DC firms 30 with $145k+ and NU has 30 total and 23 'market' paying. Seems obvious from a recruiting standpoint where to go if you want DC.


Where did you get such detailed OCI numbers? I would like to browse your source.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:36 pm

JCougar wrote:
Where did you get such detailed OCI numbers? I would like to browse your source.


FWIW, I'm not sure those stats are even accurate though. But yeah, I'd be interested too.

woeisme
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:38 pm

It's also worth just mentioning (though I doubt you have the info available) that even if more firms go to GW than Cornell (which I'd assume is clearly the case), ... that isn't to say that firms go as deep into the class at GW.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Jericwithers » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:41 pm

JCougar wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:

I don't see how you get that idea that Cornell is better at DC than GW from the recruiting numbers. 72 DC firms (44 paying $145k+) go to GW for OCI while 13 firms (10 paying $145k+) go to Cornell. As a base line for comparison, Duke gets 46 DC firms 30 with $145k+ and NU has 30 total and 23 'market' paying. Seems obvious from a recruiting standpoint where to go if you want DC.


Where did you get such detailed OCI numbers? I would like to browse your source.


Yes I am sorry I should have posted the site; I just thought the NALP was the common source of all OCI statistics. Also my statistics do not include any job fair numbers, just OCI. I believe you can find which firms go to certain job fairs on that website as well, but it is not searchable (as far as I know).

http://www.nalpdirectory.com A great source of information and a great tool in deciding on law schools.

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JCougar
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby JCougar » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:41 pm

Along the same vein, GW class size is twice as large as Cornell's. So having more firms interview at GW doesn't necessarily mean you have a better chance of getting a job from one of those firms.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Jericwithers » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:42 pm

woeisme wrote:It's also worth just mentioning (though I doubt you have the info available) that even if more firms go to GW than Cornell (which I'd assume is clearly the case), ... that isn't to say that firms go as deep into the class at GW.


Yes those are all valid points, and is the type of information that would be helpful in weighing these two schools. However I don't know of any way to verify any of this information.

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NervousInKC
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby NervousInKC » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:06 pm

I'm really frustrated. The admissions office got my LOCI, but was told that there is no guarantee the admissions committee will receive it before they make a decision. I guess I understand why they might not get it, but I'm just so anxious, nervous, and everything else. Did anyone else experience this? Do you know if the committee ever got your letter?

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askhos
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby askhos » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:26 pm

NervousInKC wrote:I'm really frustrated. The admissions office got my LOCI, but was told that there is no guarantee the admissions committee will receive it before they make a decision. I guess I understand why they might not get it, but I'm just so anxious, nervous, and everything else. Did anyone else experience this? Do you know if the committee ever got your letter?


Ugh, I figured this would happen.

Rawlsian
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Rawlsian » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:40 pm

woeisme wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:I doubt Cornell is better than GW for D.C.


lol, it is. I guarantee you.


Perhaps I should qualify my statement. Cornell placed more of its 2009 class in Big Law than GW: roughly 41% to 31%. However, Cornell only placed 39% of its entire class outside NY. Of course self-selection is probably a big reason; many go to Cornell because they want to practice in NYC. But, if there is a strong argument that Cornell is a national school, I'd appreciate it if someone provided some info, because I really like Cornell and I want to practice in Ohio. GW, conversely, placed 64% of its class in the South Atlantic region. No one argues GW is national, rather it does really well in its niche market--D.C..

I assume that the majority of Cornell's 41% find their big law jobs in NYC, and the majority of GW find their big law jobs in D.C. Again, this does not speak to the relative ease of finding these jobs--if Cornell would have a harder time in D.C. than NYC (I think so), or if GW would have a harder time finding jobs in NYC than D.C.(this seems intuitively obvious)--but it absolutely speaks to the size of the alumni base of each school in each respective location. Especially with GW producing twice as many alumni as Cornell, there will be many more connections for GW grads to draw on.

Cornell might certainly be better for D.C., but I'm not sure, (and like I said, I doubt it); and if it is, I think it's pretty safe to say that the difference is at the margins. Couple that with the 10k difference per year in tuition, and it seems like GW gets the nod. But in any case, for D.C., I don't think you can categorically say that Cornell is better.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby Jericwithers » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:51 pm

^^^^
Very good points, well said. The tuition difference is $7k a year, but I would expect to pay $1-2k more for DC housing than Ithaca. It is a very tough call at sticker for both.

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askhos
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Re: Cornell waiting room

Postby askhos » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:54 pm

Just from skimming this GW v. Cornell conversation, it sounds like GW is the better option because it requires less moving around and can still do well in the DC market compared to Cornell.




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