michigan 2010 applicants

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Reedie
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Reedie » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:25 pm

GeePee wrote:Considering their apps are supposedly up and they're taking forever to even get people complete, writing handwritten notes to rejections probably is a waste of time that won't make up for the rejection itself.


I'm getting the feeling it's chaos over there.

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PapantlaFlyer
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby PapantlaFlyer » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:25 pm

NancyBotwin wrote:Officially out. Just got the letter.


did you get a handwritten note? it's a pretty hot topic around here

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NancyBotwin
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:26 pm

PapantlaFlyer wrote:
NancyBotwin wrote:Officially out. Just got the letter.


did you get a handwritten note? it's a pretty hot topic around here


Nope. No note. I'm not special enough for one. :|

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SanBun
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby SanBun » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:26 pm

beesknees wrote:They've been doing this whole admissions thing for years, so I think they know what they're doing.

In Robin's case, his LSAT is far below their 25%ile and isn't a splitter. So I think it was quite nice of Dean Z. But without at least one number at/above the median or URM status, a compelling story is sweet, but is not getting you in. Its the cold hard truth and a handwritten note acknowledging him as an individual was better than just slamming the door in his face, which every other school does if you aren't in their #'s range. Why do people expect a justification for their rejection? Almost always its because your numbers didn't cut it. Now to those strange auto-admits who were rejected, its weird, but they'll be going to better schools anyway, so why worry?



Yes, I agree with you partially but that's the whole problem: Schools have become so numbers driven they can't even accept a one in a million applicant like robin (and believe me, she is, I know her story), or even put her on a waitlist for christ's sake. THAT's what's messed up, acknowledging robin's incredible accomplishments, but refusing to recognize they are exceptional and incredibly rare relatively speaking simply because they don't measure up to some absolute standard, ie medians.

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Unitas
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Unitas » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:28 pm

beesknees wrote:
dk8 wrote:
talibkweli wrote:maybe they really are trying to put together a certain kind of class? i really think it was nice of them to write a note on your letter, although i'm sure you're too frustrated to appreciate that now.

what were your numbers? what i don't understand is the extent to which they seem to be really underusing their waiting list. what happens if their yield estimates are wrong, their medians drop, and noone with high numbers are on the wl?


Lol. Gotta say I'd laugh really hard if they dropped their medians.


They've been doing this whole admissions thing for years, so I think they know what they're doing.

In Robin's case, his LSAT is far below their 25%ile and isn't a splitter. So I think it was quite nice of Dean Z. But without at least one number at/above the median or URM status, a compelling story is sweet, but is not getting you in. Its the cold hard truth and a handwritten note acknowledging him as an individual was better than just slamming the door in his face, which every other school does if you aren't in their #'s range. Why do people expect a justification for their rejection? Almost always its because your numbers didn't cut it. Now to those strange auto-admits who were rejected, its weird, but they'll be going to better schools anyway, so why worry?


I just want to know what was wrong, to them, with my application? Honestly, the only thing I think it could be was the third LOR I sent only them and Yale :(. Problem with that is I am still on really good terms with the professor and I am going out with him to talk about law school being as we have a lot in common in that area. "I have a slight reason to believe he may have wrote a really bad one." So if he said something bad enough about me to get a rejection I would be annoyed, and as of now I probably will somewhere inside blame him. He said he wrote a great LOR, but who knows. Other schools didn't get his LOR and accepted me. Michigan rejects me within two weeks of going complete, something is up. I am above both medians.

Also did everyone get handwritten notes?
Last edited by Unitas on Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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beesknees
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby beesknees » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:28 pm

.
Last edited by beesknees on Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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GeePee
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby GeePee » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:30 pm

Kakarot wrote:
beesknees wrote:
dk8 wrote:
talibkweli wrote:maybe they really are trying to put together a certain kind of class? i really think it was nice of them to write a note on your letter, although i'm sure you're too frustrated to appreciate that now.

what were your numbers? what i don't understand is the extent to which they seem to be really underusing their waiting list. what happens if their yield estimates are wrong, their medians drop, and noone with high numbers are on the wl?


Lol. Gotta say I'd laugh really hard if they dropped their medians.


They've been doing this whole admissions thing for years, so I think they know what they're doing.

In Robin's case, his LSAT is far below their 25%ile and isn't a splitter. So I think it was quite nice of Dean Z. But without at least one number at/above the median or URM status, a compelling story is sweet, but is not getting you in. Its the cold hard truth and a handwritten note acknowledging him as an individual was better than just slamming the door in his face, which every other school does if you aren't in their #'s range. Why do people expect a justification for their rejection? Almost always its because your numbers didn't cut it. Now to those strange auto-admits who were rejected, its weird, but they'll be going to better schools anyway, so why worry?


I just want to know what was wrong, to them, with my application? Honestly, the only thing I think it could be was the third LOR I sent only them and Yale :(. Problem with that is I am still on really good terms with the professor and I am going out with him to talk about law school being as we have a lot in common in that area. "I have a slight reason to believe he may have wrote a really bad one." So if he said something bad enough about me to get a rejection I would be annoyed, and as of now I probably will somewhere inside blame him. He said he wrote a great LOR, but who knows. Other schools didn't get his LOR and accepted me. Michigan rejects me within two weeks of going complete, something is up. I am above both medians.

Also did everyone get handwritten notes?

Are you sure you're rejected?

tamlyric
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby tamlyric » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:31 pm

SanBun wrote:
robin600 wrote:While I was about to throw away my ding letter after ripping it open, I noticed there was a handwritten note inside the envelope. I looked at it and it said:
Dear robin600,
Your story was very compelling and it seems like your are a very strong and tenacious student. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.


who the hell gives you a handwritten note on a rejection letter? Wtf? If my story was so compelling at least give me a WL!!!


Wow, that's unbelievable!

At first I thought it was nice, but honestly, it does really seem cruel upon further reflection, for the same reason you said. If the admissions process wasn't dominated by a secretive, numbers-whoring and cold-hearted strategizing mentality, the dean may have actually had the freedom and the FUKKING BALLS to tell you why you weren't admitted if your story is so compelling. I am disgusted by the law school admissions process and so sick of it. I hope the legal industry as it is falls apart and schools become forced to look for actual qualities instead of pretending that academic overachievers are "diverse" when there are real fukking heroes out there who have the passion and drive it takes to change the world.


-1

Yes, it's real cruel to tell someone that they have a compelling story--as if having a compelling story is sufficient to get into law school, much less Michigan. I mean, seriously. You act like not getting into Michigan is either tragic or insulting, but, of course, it's neither.

The fact that Dean Z did what she did speaks volumes about how much she cares about the job she's doing and the people whose lives are affected by it.

Are there problems with the legal profession? Sure. Are there problems with the admissions process? Sure. But Dean Z writing a compassionate and thoughtful note to a person rejected by Michigan is neither related to, nor emblematic of, these problems.

End rant.

Sympathies to everyone who received bad news today, eh.
Last edited by tamlyric on Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:31 pm

SanBun wrote:
beesknees wrote:They've been doing this whole admissions thing for years, so I think they know what they're doing.

In Robin's case, his LSAT is far below their 25%ile and isn't a splitter. So I think it was quite nice of Dean Z. But without at least one number at/above the median or URM status, a compelling story is sweet, but is not getting you in. Its the cold hard truth and a handwritten note acknowledging him as an individual was better than just slamming the door in his face, which every other school does if you aren't in their #'s range. Why do people expect a justification for their rejection? Almost always its because your numbers didn't cut it. Now to those strange auto-admits who were rejected, its weird, but they'll be going to better schools anyway, so why worry?



Yes, I agree with you partially but that's the whole problem: Schools have become so numbers driven they can't even accept a one in a million applicant like robin (and believe me, she is, I know her story), or even put her on a waitlist for christ's sake. THAT's what's messed up, acknowledging robin's incredible accomplishments, but refusing to recognize they are exceptional relatively speaking simply because they don't measure up to some absolute standard, ie medians.


meh. i am generally much less spiteful of the usnews effect than other people. as individuals, we all bring interesting and valuable stuff to the table, but having a great story isn't going to help you pass your torts final. i think objective metrics should be central to the process.

still, its ridiculous how magnified insignificant differences in lsat/gpa have become b/c of medians
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unitas
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Unitas » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:31 pm

GeePee wrote:
Kakarot wrote:
beesknees wrote:They've been doing this whole admissions thing for years, so I think they know what they're doing.

In Robin's case, his LSAT is far below their 25%ile and isn't a splitter. So I think it was quite nice of Dean Z. But without at least one number at/above the median or URM status, a compelling story is sweet, but is not getting you in. Its the cold hard truth and a handwritten note acknowledging him as an individual was better than just slamming the door in his face, which every other school does if you aren't in their #'s range. Why do people expect a justification for their rejection? Almost always its because your numbers didn't cut it. Now to those strange auto-admits who were rejected, its weird, but they'll be going to better schools anyway, so why worry?


I just want to know what was wrong, to them, with my application? Honestly, the only thing I think it could be was the third LOR I sent only them and Yale :(. Problem with that is I am still on really good terms with the professor and I am going out with him to talk about law school being as we have a lot in common in that area. "I have a slight reason to believe he may have wrote a really bad one." So if he said something bad enough about me to get a rejection I would be annoyed, and as of now I probably will somewhere inside blame him. He said he wrote a great LOR, but who knows. Other schools didn't get his LOR and accepted me. Michigan rejects me within two weeks of going complete, something is up. I am above both medians.

Also did everyone get handwritten notes?

Are you sure you're rejected?


No letter, but no ASW... I have been DR since 1/11.

jc1988
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby jc1988 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:33 pm

Kakarot wrote:
No letter, but no ASW... I have been DR since 1/11.


join me, i think we are both dinged.

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Reedie
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Reedie » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:35 pm

Also, for all those bitching about the numbers game:

How many of you are basing your decisions largely on US News' rankings? Is there a cutoff for you below which you would not consider a law school?

postitnotes
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby postitnotes » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:47 pm

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

according to this it\'s not all just about YP for 75th, as Mich is still accepting a fair number of people with both numbers above the 75th

congrats to all accepted so far though! there\'s a really big increase in applications this year, so for the rest of you still waiting, have some patience. You guys will find out soon enough.

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ShibaDan
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby ShibaDan » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:01 pm

urban_cdn wrote:
dk8 wrote:Officially dinged today 3.5/171. Noticed some typos in my app and changed my PS around after I applied to Mich. Hopefully that will un-F me at the schools I applied to later. Good luck to everyone else.



ahhhhhhh, im scared i have a 3.5, 172 (but multi LSAT), damn.


I was 3.6/170 with a multiple and got in don't give up hope!

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Lincoln
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Lincoln » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:03 pm

jc1988 wrote:
Kakarot wrote:
No letter, but no ASW... I have been DR since 1/11.


join me, i think we are both dinged.


+1

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kurama20
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby kurama20 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:03 pm

Reedie wrote:Also, for all those bitching about the numbers game:

How many of you are basing your decisions largely on US News' rankings? Is there a cutoff for you below which you would not consider a law school?


Damn you like to keep it real don't you. 8)

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Reedie
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Reedie » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:06 pm

kurama20 wrote:
Reedie wrote:Also, for all those bitching about the numbers game:

How many of you are basing your decisions largely on US News' rankings? Is there a cutoff for you below which you would not consider a law school?


Damn you like to keep it real don't you. 8)


To be fair I'm equally annoyed when I see the admissions deans complaining about how law students don't recognize their law school for the unique flower that it is and instead rely on rankings while at the same time making decisions based on tiny differences in LSAT score.

dakatz
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby dakatz » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:15 pm

Reedie wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
Reedie wrote:Also, for all those bitching about the numbers game:

How many of you are basing your decisions largely on US News' rankings? Is there a cutoff for you below which you would not consider a law school?


Damn you like to keep it real don't you. 8)


To be fair I'm equally annoyed when I see the admissions deans complaining about how law students don't recognize their law school for the unique flower that it is and instead rely on rankings while at the same time making decisions based on tiny differences in LSAT score.


Amen

starstruck393
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby starstruck393 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:34 pm

I think it's funny how all of these comments are being made about Michigan, when from what I've heard, and in my own experience, Michigan is the most likely of any T14 to admit an applicant they really like, but whose numbers aren't so good. It's unfortunate about Robin, although I don't know her story, but there are so many things that Dean Z could have seen that we don't know about, who are we to judge? Maybe Dean Z thought she would have trouble with the academics (Dean Pless at UIUC has said on numerous occasions that he won't admit students who he doesn't feel would be successful at UIUC, as it does neither of them any good), maybe Dean Z thought that she wouldn't fit in, or maybe there was something else in the app that turned her off. We do come into a sense of entitlement having superior numbers at a school and thinking that we're a lock for admission, but based on the comments I've seen from some of those who've been rejected, if I was Dean Z and saw that attitude fused in the application, I wouldn't admit you either. Just because you wrote a Why Michigan essay doesn't mean you wrote it well, or conveyed sincere interest, maybe you had a recommender sabotage you (that would suck, but it does beg the question as to what did you do that would cause someone to do that), maybe you came off like a douche in your application, and maybe your application just wasn't that good. For those with lower numbers compared to Michigan's profile, it sucks that you didn't get waitlisted, but realistically your chances were small to begin with. And if you go back to last year, although a WL would have initially cushioned the blow, it would only have led to prolonged suffering since no one got off of it for 2009 admission (only a few that got deferred admission to Summer 2010). If your numbers were competitive for Michigan, it probably won't end up that big a deal because you still have good shots at the other top schools that don't seem to scrutinize their applications as much (there are a few I sometimes wonder if they even read the apps outside of the GPA/LSAT).

Getting rejected definitely sucks (I know all about that), but if you did it wasn't meant to be, and life goes on...

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jackassjim
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby jackassjim » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:03 pm

SanBun wrote:
robin600 wrote:While I was about to throw away my ding letter after ripping it open, I noticed there was a handwritten note inside the envelope. I looked at it and it said:
Dear robin600,
Your story was very compelling and it seems like your are a very strong and tenacious student. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.


who the hell gives you a handwritten note on a rejection letter? Wtf? If my story was so compelling at least give me a WL!!!


Wow, that's unbelievable!

At first I thought it was nice, but honestly, it does really seem cruel upon further reflection, for the same reason you said. If the admissions process wasn't dominated by a secretive, numbers-whoring and cold-hearted strategizing mentality, the dean may have actually had the freedom and the FUKKING BALLS to tell you why you weren't admitted if your story is so compelling. I am disgusted by the law school admissions process and so sick of it. I hope the legal industry as it is falls apart and schools become forced to look for actual qualities instead of pretending that academic overachievers are "diverse" when there are real fukking heroes out there who have the passion and drive it takes to change the world.


I'm sorry, but this is a bit ridiculous. (1) You're over-analyzing it. (2) You should give the benefit of the doubt to the person who wrote the note. Maybe s/he was just trying to be nice to someone who's profile s/he actually found compelling. The simple fact that he got a straight rejection makes clear why he was rejected: there were candidates who appeared to have more potential as law students.

That doesn't make it impossible for that applicant's life story to be interesting. Adcomms can get hooked by a PS without having to admit the person. Their job is not about "have balls" and admit all those they pity or who they'd like to have a beer with (maybe you vote that way, but they don't have to work that way). It's about selecting those who they think will make the best law students/lawyers, and maximizing their cohort's numbers so the school gains prestige. They have a clear mandate. It's not their fault if the folks on TLS assume that the best PS are tear-jerkers. For sure some of the PS are bound to get at the readers. They're humans. Still, they can like someone without having to admit them. It's their job.
Last edited by jackassjim on Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jackassjim
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby jackassjim » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:05 pm

GeePee wrote:Considering their apps are supposedly up and they're taking forever to even get people complete, writing handwritten notes to rejections probably is a waste of time that won't make up for the rejection itself.


Exactly how many seconds do you think it took to write it. 15? Say you LOOOOVE 500 candidates enough to write a note like that on the rejection letter, that's about two hours of wasted time IN TOTAL.

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robin600
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby robin600 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:25 pm

beesknees wrote:
dk8 wrote:
talibkweli wrote:maybe they really are trying to put together a certain kind of class? i really think it was nice of them to write a note on your letter, although i'm sure you're too frustrated to appreciate that now.

what were your numbers? what i don't understand is the extent to which they seem to be really underusing their waiting list. what happens if their yield estimates are wrong, their medians drop, and noone with high numbers are on the wl?


Lol. Gotta say I'd laugh really hard if they dropped their medians.


They've been doing this whole admissions thing for years, so I think they know what they're doing.

In Robin's case, his LSAT is far below their 25%ile and isn't a splitter. So I think it was quite nice of Dean Z. But without at least one number at/above the median or URM status, a compelling story is sweet, but is not getting you in. Its the cold hard truth and a handwritten note acknowledging him as an individual was better than just slamming the door in his face, which every other school does if you aren't in their #'s range. Why do people expect a justification for their rejection? Almost always its because your numbers didn't cut it. Now to those strange auto-admits who were rejected, its weird, but they'll be going to better schools anyway, so why worry?

First of all I'm a she thank you. Second, I'm in state, MI has in state quotas they have to meet to get enough aid from gov. funding so usually they are nicer to in-state people than out of state people. Granted it was still a hail mary, but if someone is going to tell me I'm compelling but not admit me why not waitlist me and never let me in? At least it'd make me feel better. Third, I in no way expected justification for my rejection, asked no questions and never expected to get the note that I got so please don't make me look like I'm whining because I didn't get in.

Muddy
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Muddy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:30 pm

boney09 wrote:try to be more optimisic~!! you don't even have rejection letters...i had a 7% chance according to LSP and got in

What is LSP??

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Unitas
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby Unitas » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:31 pm

Muddy wrote:
boney09 wrote:try to be more optimisic~!! you don't even have rejection letters...i had a 7% chance according to LSP and got in

What is LSP??


law school predictor

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/

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davidicus
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Re: michigan 2010 applicants

Postby davidicus » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:34 pm

Decision arrived today...depressingly thin envelope. Ding! The first cut is the deepest, right?




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