William & Mary

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nyyankees
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Re: William & Mary

Postby nyyankees » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:51 am

applied 2-3 months ago and still DP. im pretty seriously considering withdrawing, but I sort of just want a decision out of them. Its starting to feel more frustrating than its worth...

anyone else considering withdrawing?

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2010law
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Re: William & Mary

Postby 2010law » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:45 am

I hope this helps................
I DO NOT HAVE AUTO ADMIT #'s- but I got in.
I can tell you (at least in my particular case) W&M did not look at just #'s and did a fairly comprehensive review of my ENTIRE file. I spoke with several reps. from the college both before (forums / visits) and during the application process and was told each time that W&M looks at more than #'s and this makes the process take some time (more than at schools where the decision is made strictly by #'s).
I also know of at least 1 person (a friend) that has great #'s but she did NOT get in and she was advised by one of the writers of a LOR that the school contacted him to discuss her as a "whole person".
The only thing that I can discern from this is:
1) W&M looks at more than just your hard #'s and DOES give weight to "softs"
2) W&M seems to give you a fair chance
3) this takes some time
I hope everyone that really wants in--gets in--- GOOD LUCK

ViIIager
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Re: William & Mary

Postby ViIIager » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:53 am

Maybe they're too busy doing grades to finish our decisions.

--LinkRemoved--

clwilson6
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Re: William & Mary

Postby clwilson6 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:54 am

Thanks 2010Law, you post was very insightful. Maybe there's hope for me yet.

prelaw10
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Re: William & Mary

Postby prelaw10 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:35 pm

Weird (but great news for people with non-auto-numbers, like me) that they call recommenders.. they're really taking their time with this

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SAE
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Re: William & Mary

Postby SAE » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:37 pm

prelaw10 wrote:Weird (but great news for people with non-auto-numbers, like me) that they call recommenders.. they're really taking their time with this

Are they just confirming that they wrote the letters or having in-depth conversations about applicants?

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klussy
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Re: William & Mary

Postby klussy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:50 pm

There are clear GPA cutoffs where everyone above gets in and everyone under is out. This year and last year's stats match. For example, a 165 needs a 3.5+. Only one person, a URM, had lower than that last year. This year, they've only gotten to 3.65+ so far. BTW last year no one was admitted off the WL. WM is definitely not doing things holistically, which is fine; they just shouldn't claim otherwise. Only a handful of schools weigh numbers evenly (or close to) with softs. Notre Dame and Northwestern, for example.

this year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/?whichCycle=0910
last year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/08 ... Cycle=0910

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sophistry
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Re: William & Mary

Postby sophistry » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:41 pm

klussy wrote:There are clear GPA cutoffs where everyone above gets in and everyone under is out. This year and last year's stats match. For example, a 165 needs a 3.5+. Only one person, a URM, had lower than that last year. This year, they've only gotten to 3.65+ so far. BTW last year no one was admitted off the WL. WM is definitely not doing things holistically, which is fine; they just shouldn't claim otherwise. Only a handful of schools weigh numbers evenly (or close to) with softs. Notre Dame and Northwestern, for example.

this year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/?whichCycle=0910
last year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/08 ... Cycle=0910


Yes and no. There's a clear line going from 164/3.7 to 165/3.5 to 166/3.45 and so on. That seems like a pretty clear cutoff and anyone below that line shouldn't get their hopes up.

However, this year there's a 165/3.23 and a 166/3.3, both non-URMs, who got in. They look at softs perhaps a bit more that some other schools, but overall, I agree with klussy.

Emma1
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Re: William & Mary

Postby Emma1 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:27 pm

Law school numbers shows a pattern but all applications to W&M are not included.

klussy wrote:There are clear GPA cutoffs where everyone above gets in and everyone under is out. This year and last year's stats match. For example, a 165 needs a 3.5+. Only one person, a URM, had lower than that last year. This year, they've only gotten to 3.65+ so far. BTW last year no one was admitted off the WL. WM is definitely not doing things holistically, which is fine; they just shouldn't claim otherwise. Only a handful of schools weigh numbers evenly (or close to) with softs. Notre Dame and Northwestern, for example.

this year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/?whichCycle=0910
last year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/08 ... Cycle=0910

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SAE
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Re: William & Mary

Postby SAE » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:40 pm

Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

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ryguy
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Re: William & Mary

Postby ryguy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:45 pm

SAE wrote:Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

None what so ever. Been dp since 1/7. lsat 169/3.4x. Dec. retake. Go figure.

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SAE
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Re: William & Mary

Postby SAE » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:54 pm

ryguy wrote:
SAE wrote:Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

None what so ever. Been dp since 1/7. lsat 169/3.4x. Dec. retake. Go figure.

Looks like it was around 3/20 last year and virtually all decisions have been wl's and dings... :x

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Rowinguy2009
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Re: William & Mary

Postby Rowinguy2009 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:46 am

Anyone else get the letter with class of 09 employment stats? I know those stats can be kinda fudgy, but it looks like they did a heck of a lot better than I would have expected.

jwrit07
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Re: William & Mary

Postby jwrit07 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:57 am

Rowinguy2009 wrote:Anyone else get the letter with class of 09 employment stats? I know those stats can be kinda fudgy, but it looks like they did a heck of a lot better than I would have expected.


Yea, I received the employment statistics packet yesterday as well. For 2009 W&M purported to have a median starting salary of $140,000 in the private sector with over 70% reporting if I'm not mistaken. Seems to the contrary of what I have been hearing from people on TLS who attend W&M now.

Anybody else interpret the stats as I did? Can anyone shed some additional insight if possible? It appears their 2009 employment numbers may have been better then their 2008's.. I just want to be sure I'm understanding this right....

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gymboree
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Re: William & Mary

Postby gymboree » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:07 am

ryguy wrote:
SAE wrote:Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

None what so ever. Been dp since 1/7. lsat 169/3.4x. Dec. retake. Go figure.


that's nothing... I've been DP since 11/2. So, let me ask the group - what do you think it does for a school in terms of rankings:

a) an applicant withdrawing before the school renders a decision?

or,

b) an applicant waiting for the decision?

I can't decide if I want to wait this out just because I paid my money and I want a decision, or whether I should just withdraw and hope that they can't then just "use" me to jockey USNWR "selectivity" statistics. Irritated with W&M. 4 months at DP???? Really????

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chinagator
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Re: William & Mary

Postby chinagator » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:15 pm

I was really surprised by these numbers as well. It's certainly comforting, but according to the placement numbers for 09, only 42 out of 193 grads ended up in nlj250 firms.

wired
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Re: William & Mary

Postby wired » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:28 pm

There is definitely some gaming going on. I love William and Mary and I will almost certainly attend there, but it is safe to assume that the 24% who did not report salary information are below the private firm median. $140k is more likely the top quarter of the class as opposed to the median.

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danidancer
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Re: William & Mary

Postby danidancer » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:10 pm

Withdrew my acceptance today, freeing up a spot and $$. Good luck to everyone still waiting!

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2010law
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Re: William & Mary

Postby 2010law » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:40 pm

I took a quick look at the W&M employment paperwork and I agree with "wired".
I think that if the 24% were to be included, the #'s would most likely go down.
Don't forget the #'s are being self reported by the grads and they may not be totally accurate
-----
I actually called a few of the larger (biglaw) firms listed and actually obtained a fair amount of information. I spoke with 5 firms and they were pretty much in agreement about the following:
to get hired / get the salaries mentioned, you need to go to a top school (they all seemed to agree that W&M fit the bill). You need to be in the top 1/3 or so of the class. Working for the firm as a summer hire after 2L could give you an inside track at getting hired if there is an spot when you graduate (but if you suck as a summer hire, it could keep you from ever getting hired). The higher end salaries tend to go to new hires that have medical, accounting, engineering, etc. backgrounds
Law review / Journals will help in that they will help you polish your writing style- but not just because you put it in your resume. 4 of the firms gave salary "ranges" for new hires and they were all between 75-90K to start.

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Veritas
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Re: William & Mary

Postby Veritas » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:43 pm

WD today, GL everyone!

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UF Gators
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Re: William & Mary

Postby UF Gators » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:46 pm

Veritas wrote:WD today, GL everyone!

:cry: :cry: :cry:

wired
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Re: William & Mary

Postby wired » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:47 pm

2010 are you a 0L, 1L, or 3L? ( I think I saw in another thread you said you were already at W&M.)

If so, are you doing a fellowship?

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Veritas
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Re: William & Mary

Postby Veritas » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:51 pm

Pussy Galore wrote:
Veritas wrote:WD today, GL everyone!

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:| it's ok!!

ps, why have you fallen off the face of the earth?

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UF Gators
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Re: William & Mary

Postby UF Gators » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:53 pm

Veritas wrote:
Pussy Galore wrote:
Veritas wrote:WD today, GL everyone!

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:| it's ok!!

ps, why have you fallen off the face of the earth?

General depression and hatred of my life.

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Padimud
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Re: William & Mary

Postby Padimud » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:05 pm

Does anyone have a sense for how demanding the Graduate Fellowship is? One thing that is holding me back from enrolling is fears that the 10 hours dedicated might make a dent in my efforts to achieve while there. . . Any thoughts?




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