Berkeley 2010

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby crackberry » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:12 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Also, if you think the other schools are going to keep tuition at current levels you're also probably mistaken.

Sure, but no state is as screwed as California. That is a fact.


True, and many private law schools took a 20-30% endowment hit.

No private university could get away with raising tuition by 32 percent in one year.

0L Hoping for 1
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby 0L Hoping for 1 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:13 pm

crackberry wrote:No private university could get away with raising tuition by 32 percent in one year.


Yale could raise it 100 percent and still have a full class

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:20 pm

crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Also, if you think the other schools are going to keep tuition at current levels you're also probably mistaken.

Sure, but no state is as screwed as California. That is a fact.


True, and many private law schools took a 20-30% endowment hit.

No private university could get away with raising tuition by 32 percent in one year.


That's true, but that's not what Boalt did. They're raising it by 21% next year. When I was applying last year, I was aware that the tuition in-state was going from about 35k for the 09/10 year to about 41k for 10/11. They're bumping it up to 44k instead. Yes, this definitely sucks, but it should not have caught people by surprise that their fees were going to increase substantially. Berkeley has an excellent LRAP and also places well in Biglaw.

And I'm also sure that any top school could, private or public.

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Kronk
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby Kronk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:46 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:That's true, but that's not what Boalt did. They're raising it by 21% next year. When I was applying last year, I was aware that the tuition in-state was going from about 35k for the 09/10 year to about 41k for 10/11. They're bumping it up to 44k instead. Yes, this definitely sucks, but it should not have caught people by surprise that their fees were going to increase substantially. Berkeley has an excellent LRAP and also places well in Biglaw.

And I'm also sure that any top school could, private or public.



Yeah. But in the past I had justification for picking Berkeley over Chicago, NYU, Columbia, and maybe even Harvard. While UCB clearly isn't quite at the level of any of those schools, I liked the location much more, the in-state tuition was under 30K--so it was much cheaper--and the LRAP was good. In addition, Berkeley placed well into BigLaw.

However, as things stand, it doesn't make sense to take Berkeley over NYU or Columbia. Both NYU and Columbia have better or at least comparable LRAPs, much more firms do OCI at NYU and Columbia (and even Michigan / Virginia / Penn), tuition will be about 5-10K less per year, and they place better in almost every category.

And I think that this thread has somewhat proved my point (that Berkeley will lose some quality applicants). Sure, they'll still have medians at about 167 and 3.8-9, but they won't get me, Crackberry, Maggiebre, 0L Hoping for 1, and a bunch of other 170+, 3.8+ applicants.

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tintin
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby tintin » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:54 pm

VoidSix wrote:
And I think that this thread has somewhat proved my point (that Berkeley will lose some quality applicants). Sure, they'll still have medians at about 167 and 3.8-9, but they won't get me, Crackberry, Maggiebre, 0L Hoping for 1, and a bunch of other 170+, 3.8+ applicants.


they can have me and my pitiful 168......

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:54 pm

VoidSix wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:That's true, but that's not what Boalt did. They're raising it by 21% next year. When I was applying last year, I was aware that the tuition in-state was going from about 35k for the 09/10 year to about 41k for 10/11. They're bumping it up to 44k instead. Yes, this definitely sucks, but it should not have caught people by surprise that their fees were going to increase substantially. Berkeley has an excellent LRAP and also places well in Biglaw.

And I'm also sure that any top school could, private or public.



Yeah. But in the past I had justification for picking Berkeley over Chicago, NYU, Columbia, and maybe even Harvard. While UCB clearly isn't quite at the level of any of those schools, I liked the location much more, the in-state tuition was under 30K--so it was much cheaper--and the LRAP was good. In addition, Berkeley placed well into BigLaw.

However, as things stand, it doesn't make sense to take Berkeley over NYU or Columbia. Both NYU and Columbia have better or at least comparable LRAPs, much more firms do OCI at NYU and Columbia (and even Michigan / Virginia / Penn), tuition will be about 5-10K less per year, and they place better in almost every category.

And I think that this thread has somewhat proved my point (that Berkeley will lose some quality applicants). Sure, they'll still have medians at about 167 and 3.8-9, but they won't get me, Crackberry, Maggiebre, 0L Hoping for 1, and a bunch of other 170+, 3.8+ applicants.


Eh, show me how those LRAP programs are better. :)

Also, I know a lot of out of staters at Boalt who chose UCB over NYU or Columbia based on preference. With CoL they'll be around the same price either way. Between NYU and Berk it's really splitting hairs anyway. (I know this is not the dominant opinion on TLS, but it's basically the dominant "real world" opinion).

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kurama20
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby kurama20 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:59 pm

VoidSix wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:That's true, but that's not what Boalt did. They're raising it by 21% next year. When I was applying last year, I was aware that the tuition in-state was going from about 35k for the 09/10 year to about 41k for 10/11. They're bumping it up to 44k instead. Yes, this definitely sucks, but it should not have caught people by surprise that their fees were going to increase substantially. Berkeley has an excellent LRAP and also places well in Biglaw.

And I'm also sure that any top school could, private or public.



Yeah. But in the past I had justification for picking Berkeley over Chicago, NYU, Columbia, and maybe even Harvard. While UCB clearly isn't quite at the level of any of those schools, I liked the location much more, the in-state tuition was under 30K--so it was much cheaper--and the LRAP was good. In addition, Berkeley placed well into BigLaw.

However, as things stand, it doesn't make sense to take Berkeley over NYU or Columbia. Both NYU and Columbia have better or at least comparable LRAPs, much more firms do OCI at NYU and Columbia (and even Michigan / Virginia / Penn), tuition will be about 5-10K less per year, and they place better in almost every category.


And I think that this thread has somewhat proved my point (that Berkeley will lose some quality applicants). Sure, they'll still have medians at about 167 and 3.8-9, but they won't get me, Crackberry, Maggiebre, 0L Hoping for 1, and a bunch of other 170+, 3.8+ applicants.


It's kind of ironic how similar our thought processes are considering some of our run ins.....this analysis is dead on. It's one of the reasons why I just decided to let the Boalt thing go and ED at another school. I don't think people realize just how much the tuition hike hurts Boalt. All of what Void is saying is so true that it isn't even funny. Why would someone with his numbers even consider Boalt over CCN let alone HYS now? I mean even Michigan and UVA are more attractive depending on your tastes. I think that this situation is going to cease Boalt's precipitous rise in the rankings.
Last edited by kurama20 on Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby Jericwithers » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:13 pm

So is the consensus to withdraw our apps to send Berkley a clear message? :lol: I was excited about the possiblity of attending Berkley (because of lower tuition), but it isn't even on my list now. Too bad I couldn't have waited a week and saved my app fee.

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Kronk
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby Kronk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:23 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:Eh, show me how those LRAP programs are better. :)

Also, I know a lot of out of staters at Boalt who chose UCB over NYU or Columbia based on preference. With CoL they'll be around the same price either way. Between NYU and Berk it's really splitting hairs anyway. (I know this is not the dominant opinion on TLS, but it's basically the dominant "real world" opinion).


As for LRAP: Look to doyleoil's LRAP thread. Columbia's most definitely is better (his numbers are off by about 5K per scenario for Columbia). And NYU's is so comparable that it makes it essentially a wash. Both are superior given Berkeley's cap at $100K (although I've heard they might be taking that off?). I mean, if there is a cap, sure LRAP is great for $100K of it, but what about the other half?

And the CoL argument is pretty flawed in my opinion as well. I have a lot of friends that go to UCB undergrad, and they pay $800-1100 per month for rent. Not much less than the $1100-1400 you'd pay at Columbia or NYU.

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Kronk
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby Kronk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:26 pm

Jericwithers wrote:So is the consensus to withdraw our apps to send Berkley a clear message? :lol: I was excited about the possiblity of attending Berkley (because of lower tuition), but it isn't even on my list now. Too bad I couldn't have waited a week and saved my app fee.


I'm with you. Stanford is now essentially my only shot in California, which is where I'd like to be. Unless Boalt wants to quell my tuition-incited rage with a scholarship, which would be fine by me.

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby crackberry » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:34 pm

VoidSix wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:So is the consensus to withdraw our apps to send Berkley a clear message? :lol: I was excited about the possiblity of attending Berkley (because of lower tuition), but it isn't even on my list now. Too bad I couldn't have waited a week and saved my app fee.


I'm with you. Stanford is now essentially my only shot in California, which is where I'd like to be. Unless Boalt wants to quell my tuition-incited rage with a scholarship, which would be fine by me.

+1. And Stanford plays Cal tomorrow in the Big Game. I'll be there clad in Cardinal and white.

zaichka
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby zaichka » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:34 pm

To everyone who is hating on Boalt now:

Please withdraw so that I will look even more attractive to Cal and then they will give me lots of scholarship money and then I can happily frolic in the Bay Area next year :)

wired
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby wired » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:40 pm

zaichka wrote:To everyone who is hating on Boalt now:

Please withdraw so that I will look even more attractive to Cal and then they will give me lots of scholarship money and then I can happily frolic in the Bay Area next year :)


To everybody named Zaichka who has been accepted to Boalt now:

Please withdraw so that I will look somewhat attractive to Cal and then they will think they should maybe admit me and then I can happily frolic in the Bay Area next year, $50k in debt. :)

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Kronk
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby Kronk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:42 pm

crackberry wrote:
VoidSix wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:So is the consensus to withdraw our apps to send Berkley a clear message? :lol: I was excited about the possiblity of attending Berkley (because of lower tuition), but it isn't even on my list now. Too bad I couldn't have waited a week and saved my app fee.


I'm with you. Stanford is now essentially my only shot in California, which is where I'd like to be. Unless Boalt wants to quell my tuition-incited rage with a scholarship, which would be fine by me.

+1. And Stanford plays Cal tomorrow in the Big Game. I'll be there clad in Cardinal and white.


I love the differences between public and private schools that is apparent at the Big Game (and I am a public school guy, so I'm not knocking on anyone):

Stanford T-Shirts: Beat Cal

Berkeley T-Shirts: Fuck Stanford

0L Hoping for 1
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby 0L Hoping for 1 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:43 pm

wired wrote:
zaichka wrote:To everyone who is hating on Boalt now:

Please withdraw so that I will look even more attractive to Cal and then they will give me lots of scholarship money and then I can happily frolic in the Bay Area next year :)


To everybody named Zaichka who has been accepted to Boalt now:

Please withdraw so that I will look somewhat attractive to Cal and then they will think they should maybe admit me and then I can happily frolic in the Bay Area next year, $250k in debt. :)


FTFY

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:43 pm

VoidSix wrote:
crackberry wrote:
VoidSix wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:So is the consensus to withdraw our apps to send Berkley a clear message? :lol: I was excited about the possiblity of attending Berkley (because of lower tuition), but it isn't even on my list now. Too bad I couldn't have waited a week and saved my app fee.


I'm with you. Stanford is now essentially my only shot in California, which is where I'd like to be. Unless Boalt wants to quell my tuition-incited rage with a scholarship, which would be fine by me.

+1. And Stanford plays Cal tomorrow in the Big Game. I'll be there clad in Cardinal and white.


I love the differences between public and private schools that is apparent at the Big Game (and I am a public school guy, so I'm not knocking on anyone):

Stanford T-Shirts: Beat Cal

Berkeley T-Shirts: Fuck Stanford


I definitely agree. Ours are far superior.

wired
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby wired » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:52 pm

0L Hoping for 1 wrote:
wired wrote:
zaichka wrote:To everyone who is hating on Boalt now:

Please withdraw so that I will look even more attractive to Cal and then they will give me lots of scholarship money and then I can happily frolic in the Bay Area next year :)


To everybody named Zaichka who has been accepted to Boalt now:

Please withdraw so that I will look somewhat attractive to Cal and then they will think they should maybe admit me and then I can happily frolic in the Bay Area next year, $250k in debt. :)


FTFY


No, that's how much I will be in three years. Next year I should be at a nice, level $50k.

amidea
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby amidea » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:04 pm

DELETED because I'm an idiot.

I was actually looking at the U.Penn status checker :oops: I was wondering why it changed from under review to under committee review.
Last edited by amidea on Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.

texasgirl22
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby texasgirl22 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:14 pm

amidea wrote:what does it mean if my status checker went to Under Committee Review?


when did you submit? i submitted 11/16 and received status checker and went under review 11/18

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Kronk
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby Kronk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:19 pm

amidea wrote:what does it mean if my status checker went to Under Committee Review?


Not much. I've been there since 10/19 along with many others.

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby crackberry » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:40 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:I definitely agree. Ours are far superior.

But we have the superior team.

Also, and I'm not saying Stanford UGs are awesome, but we did have some somewhat racy shirts knocking Cal. I mean "9-time NCAA Bukkake Champions." Pretty nasty.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:47 pm

crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:I definitely agree. Ours are far superior.

But we have the superior team.

Also, and I'm not saying Stanford UGs are awesome, but we did have some somewhat racy shirts knocking Cal. I mean "9-time NCAA Bukkake Champions." Pretty nasty.


It's the Pac-10. You'll only be able to say that if you beat us on Saturday.

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby crackberry » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:57 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:I definitely agree. Ours are far superior.

But we have the superior team.

Also, and I'm not saying Stanford UGs are awesome, but we did have some somewhat racy shirts knocking Cal. I mean "9-time NCAA Bukkake Champions." Pretty nasty.


It's the Pac-10. You'll only be able to say that if you beat us on Saturday.

True, and while we should beat you guys, it's by no means a sure thing. It never is with Stanford Football.

That said, I don't know why "It's the Pac-10" is a relevant comment. The Pac-10 is the second best conference in college football this year, and one could make the argument that, top-to-bottom, it's the best. Yes, the SEC has three really good teams, but after UF, Alabama and LSU, everyone sucks. The Big 12 is legitimately terrible this year (I think Texas will get destroyed in the title game). The Big 10 has been awful for years. The Big East and ACC are always jokes except for VT occasionally. When it comes down to it, the Pac-10 is the country's most exciting, most balanced conference this season.

0L Hoping for 1
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby 0L Hoping for 1 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:59 pm

crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
crackberry wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:I definitely agree. Ours are far superior.

But we have the superior team.

Also, and I'm not saying Stanford UGs are awesome, but we did have some somewhat racy shirts knocking Cal. I mean "9-time NCAA Bukkake Champions." Pretty nasty.


It's the Pac-10. You'll only be able to say that if you beat us on Saturday.

True, and while we should beat you guys, it's by no means a sure thing. It never is with Stanford Football.

That said, I don't know why "It's the Pac-10" is a relevant comment. The Pac-10 is the second best conference in college football this year, and one could make the argument that, top-to-bottom, it's the best. Yes, the SEC has three really good teams, but after UF, Alabama and LSU, everyone sucks. The Big 12 is legitimately terrible this year (I think Texas will get destroyed in the title game). The Big 10 has been awful for years. The Big East and ACC are always jokes except for VT occasionally. When it comes down to it, the Pac-10 is the country's most exciting, most balanced conference this season.


I tihnk the Pac 10 is great (I am an Oregon fan) but I am also a VT fan and I do have to say the ACC is a little better than just VT, Georgia Tech can be a great team. Big East is pretty much a joke.

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irie
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Re: Berkeley 2010

Postby irie » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:01 pm

sfdreaming09 wrote:
For OOS, it is currently at 48.7K. It will rise to 52.2K in 2010, 54.8K in 2011, and 57.6K in 2012.

This is truly a shame.


heya just wondering-- where did you get these numbers from? or is it speculation?




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