SMU 2010!

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
chrisokc
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby chrisokc » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:03 am

Sangiovese wrote:
chrisokc wrote:That friggin' 157 tells me that you don't study as well as your GPA might suggest.
The LSAT is learnable.


Indeed it is. However, it is not intuitively obvious that it's learnable. When I decided to go to school, I thought about doing LSAT prep and decided against it. "There is no learnable content, it just tests logic" was my *flawed* reasoning.

So, I took it cold and got a 156. Then I found TLS and realized that not only is the test highly learnable, but logic games is the area where the greatest improvement is possible (and is also where I lost 4 out of every 5 points that I missed).

Could I study, retake it, and do much better? Almost certainly. Is it worth it to me (geographically bound to a single school, which accepted me even with my low lsat) to sit out a year and reapply next year with a higher score? Nope. At 40 years old, a year of my time is worth more to me than the potential gain in scholarship money.

The point of my story? It is silly to assume something about someone based on a single number taken out of context. LSAT or GPA... both of them can provide a real indication of someone's aptitude toward a certain skill set. And both of them can be very misleading in certain instances.

As for the general direction this thread has taken...

None of us knows exactly what the admissions committee was looking for or why they favored one candidate over another. We can look at the numbers and say "I should get picked instead of that person" but what we have to realize is that while the numbers are important, they aren't the whole package. And to be honest, even the numbers are not an apples to apples comparison. Does a 165 that was achieved after preparing for 9 months and taking the test twice really indicate a better chance of success in law school than a 160 taken cold? Is a 3.5 earned while working 40 hours per week less impressive than a 4.0 achieved while having no responsibilities other than school? What about someone who got a 4.0 while working 50 hours per week, but had an easier major? We never see the whole package, so it would be silly to think we can evaluate our true standing in relation to another candidate whom we do not know.

I understand that it really, really stinks to get rejected or waitlisted when you feel like you were a strong candidate... but I think it is petty to lash out at someone who was accepted just because "the numbers" indicate that you are a better candidate. Having a higher LSAT score doesn't make you a better person (or necessarily a better candidate) than someone who scored lower. The same goes for a high GPA. It really says a lot about people that this thread turned from a love-fest where everyone was rooting for each other a couple days ago, to a place where people are taking potshots at each other because they have a higher GPA/LSAT, better haircut, or whatever.

Sorry about the rant, but this cranky old guy just felt that something had to be said. Now get off my lawn, and behave yourselves! :mrgreen:

The fact that someone would take the test cold says something about his or her dedication. Wouldn't a person who is dedicated to finding a way to succeed determine that taking the LSAT cold is not a wise decision?

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ladysixmonkey
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby ladysixmonkey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:11 am

Anyone want to car pool to the ASD on May 20th? I am North of 635 along the I35 corridor. PM me if you are interested.

chrisokc
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby chrisokc » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:16 am

I'm through with the LSAT/GPA garbage. I'll bet they do some more acceptances today and/or tomorrow. Thursdays and Fridays can be generous.

jgrin
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby jgrin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:24 am

chrisokc wrote:I'm through with the LSAT/GPA garbage. I'll bet they do some more acceptances today and/or tomorrow. Thursdays and Fridays can be generous.


Hope so, I am decision rendered today... Kind of expecting a rejection.

jgrin
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby jgrin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:27 am

I am hoping/praying I see that 214 area code pop up on my phone today though...

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UTL_plz
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby UTL_plz » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:34 am

Ty Webb wrote:
Thirteen wrote:
jgrin wrote:+1

The LSAT is the most stupid judgement of how a student will do. I think it is a major flaw in the system that someone with a 2.2 and a 170 is better than my 3.5 153. I worked hard for 4 years to get my GPA where it is, and the other person slacked off and didn't care about his/her studies. Although they know how to sequence letters, they don't know how to study, yet prestigious law schools feel they do. The whole system needs to be based on undergraduate prestige and undergraduate GPA, with the LSAT being secondary.


Anti-Thirteen trolling??? Also, knowing how to study and actually studying are two seperate things.


No kidding. Hey, more power to all of you overachievers! But remember that the people who underperformed college according to their mental skill set often have a good reason (working 30 hrs/week qualifies in my case) and those who don't have a good reason often grow up and realize their potential. At that point, they've got a solid mental hold and the willpower.

It's a lot like scouting in baseball. All you Ryan Rowland-Smiths are nice. You pitch to contact, you're not going to walk a ton of guys, but don't fault the law schools for wanting the Ubaldo Jimenezs. They know that a 100 MPH heater with late tailing action could eventually turn into a Cy Young winner, while Ryan Rowland-Smith will continue to plug toward a 4.20 ERA.


*Many assumptions made in this thread, and some intended to piss off individuals who assume that every person with a high LSAT/low GPA "doesn't know how to study, blah, blah, blah, words, words, words." Question my ability to handle law school based upon work ethic and I'll question yours based upon a test that says you have inferior mental capacity under pressure. Capiche?


I'm with you on this one. Bonus points for using Ubaldo in your argument.

texag08
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby texag08 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:36 am

Does anyone have information on the waitlist?

I am in the midst of making some major life decisions and need to know what being wait listed means.

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fathergoose
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby fathergoose » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:37 am

I looked into my crystal ball and saw a batch of acceptances going today followed by a stack of rejections being mailed tomorrow.

Also the LSAT is stupid and arcane but I would not be joining you guys at SMU if they didn't place such a huge importance on it.

Once we walk through the door August 16th none of the ugpa/LSAT/sholarship stuff matters. Quite honestly I hope it never comes up and we can take each other at face value and not base our perception on meaninless past accolades.

keg411
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby keg411 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:35 am

I'm sorry I brought it up. Like I said, I was frustrated because SMU has NEVER rejected someone with my LSAT before (look at last years' grid and LSN), meaning my WL'ing was personal and about ME and my application (i.e. they thought I was a bad candidate and didn't want me). I even said that ("there must be something that the admissions committee liked better"), but it was ignored. I'm humiliated for myself. I don't mean to disparage those with lower numbers that got in.

I have WE/softs, so this isn't a case of someone just out of undergrad with nothing on a resume either. They likely didn't like my WE/PS/everything about my app to WL me.

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fathergoose
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby fathergoose » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:43 am

keg411 wrote:I'm sorry I brought it up. Like I said, I was frustrated because SMU has NEVER rejected someone with my LSAT before (look at last years' grid and LSN), meaning my WL'ing was personal and about ME and my application (i.e. they thought I was a bad candidate and didn't want me). I even said that ("there must be something that the admissions committee liked better"), but it was ignored. I'm humiliated for myself. I don't mean to disparage those with lower numbers that got in.

I have WE/softs, so this isn't a case of someone just out of undergrad with nothing on a resume either. They likely didn't like my WE/PS/everything about my app to WL me.


If go back and look through LSN, there are a handful of people the last couple years with 164+ who were waitlisted and then got accepted. Hang in there.

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ladysixmonkey
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby ladysixmonkey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:58 am

jgrin wrote:I am hoping/praying I see that 214 area code pop up on my phone today though...


We're rooting for you, jgrin. :)

FB567
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby FB567 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:14 pm

Anyone receive a letter in the mail after being waitlisted? I was told we will receive one.

jgrin
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby jgrin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:19 pm

ladysixmonkey wrote:
jgrin wrote:I am hoping/praying I see that 214 area code pop up on my phone today though...


We're rooting for you, jgrin. :)


Haha thank you. If I don't get a call today, is it safe to assume that I wasn't accepted?

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Sangiovese
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby Sangiovese » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:19 pm

keg411 wrote:I'm sorry I brought it up. Like I said, I was frustrated because SMU has NEVER rejected someone with my LSAT before (look at last years' grid and LSN), meaning my WL'ing was personal and about ME and my application (i.e. they thought I was a bad candidate and didn't want me). I even said that ("there must be something that the admissions committee liked better"), but it was ignored. I'm humiliated for myself. I don't mean to disparage those with lower numbers that got in.

I have WE/softs, so this isn't a case of someone just out of undergrad with nothing on a resume either. They likely didn't like my WE/PS/everything about my app to WL me.


I think you mentioned that you went complete late due to taking a Feb LSAT? If I'm remembering right, then that probably has as much to do with it as anything.

I think there will be quite a bit of WL movement, and you're definitely a strong candidate so even though waiting stinks, I'm betting that you'll get in off the list.

If SMU is really your top choice, I would send a brief LOCI letting them know that... and that you will withdraw from all other schools and attend SMU if you are accepted.

Good luck!

texag08
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby texag08 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:23 pm

Why do you think there will be quite a bit of WL movement?

CarthagoDelendaEst
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby CarthagoDelendaEst » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:29 pm

If accepted, are phone calls made within a day or two of being DR'd? I went DR on 4/28 and haven't heard anything yet... pretty sure its a rejection lol.

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ladysixmonkey
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby ladysixmonkey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:32 pm

jgrin wrote:
ladysixmonkey wrote:
jgrin wrote:I am hoping/praying I see that 214 area code pop up on my phone today though...


We're rooting for you, jgrin. :)


Haha thank you. If I don't get a call today, is it safe to assume that I wasn't accepted?

Unfortunately, probably so. But let's keep hope alive.

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Sangiovese
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby Sangiovese » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:32 pm

texag08 wrote:Why do you think there will be quite a bit of WL movement?


There have been tons of reports that people are applying to many more schools this cycle than they have in previous years. That naturally leads to the most attractive candidates being accepted at more schools. Since they can still only attend one of them... it follows that there will be more withdrawals than normal. More withdrawals should mean more waitlist movement.

I could be totally wrong... but that's my thought process.

jgrin
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby jgrin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:33 pm

CarthagoDelendaEst wrote:If accepted, are phone calls made within a day or two of being DR'd? I went DR on 4/28 and haven't heard anything yet... pretty sure its a rejection lol.


Not sure, I think some people reported being notified a few days after going DR. I went DR today, so I guess we will see...

I feel the same way you do, in that it is probably a rejection.

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CmonSD
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby CmonSD » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:38 pm

jgrin wrote:
CarthagoDelendaEst wrote:If accepted, are phone calls made within a day or two of being DR'd? I went DR on 4/28 and haven't heard anything yet... pretty sure its a rejection lol.


Not sure, I think some people reported being notified a few days after going DR. I went DR today, so I guess we will see...

I feel the same way you do, in that it is probably a rejection.


My man in from Dallas so he has a 214 area code which pops up with his name and I have a heart attack every time he calls. But yea, two days later and no call. Oh well. GL to everyone still waiting!

texag08
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby texag08 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:38 pm

Can someone quantify the belief that applicants applied to many more schools this year?

I would believe it but was just wondering what this assumption was based on.

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ladysixmonkey
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby ladysixmonkey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:46 pm

texag08 wrote:Can someone quantify the belief that applicants applied to many more schools this year?

I would believe it but was just wondering what this assumption was based on.


This info is seemingly all over the place. The # of applicants increased *and* the # of applications per applicant increased. People are getting desperate. Here's just one source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/education/10grad.html

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Sangiovese
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby Sangiovese » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:55 pm

ladysixmonkey wrote:
texag08 wrote:Can someone quantify the belief that applicants applied to many more schools this year?

I would believe it but was just wondering what this assumption was based on.


This info is seemingly all over the place. The # of applicants increased *and* the # of applications per applicant increased. People are getting desperate. Here's just one source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/education/10grad.html


I had just tracked down that same link. I guess I'm old and slow :)

Also, there have been several threads here on TLS that have looked at some statistics touching on the issue. And supposedly Dean Pless has commented that the number of law school applicants has not really increased much, but the number of applications submitted has.

jgrin
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby jgrin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:00 pm

High Noon...

And NO call yet... Still have five hours left though, so I'll keep my chin up :shock:

jgrin
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Re: SMU 2010!

Postby jgrin » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:09 pm

And where did DA87 go?




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