Stanford 2010!!!

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fidesverita
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby fidesverita » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:43 pm

crackberry wrote:The underlined is definitely credited. Educated people in Asia think of Harvard and Stanford as equals - with those two schools above all others in the U.S. (including Yale, Princeton and MIT) at least as far as OVERALL universities go (I have no idea about law schools given that our legal system is so much different than theirs). Obviously part of this is due to Stanford being on the West Coast, and, thus, close to China/Japan.

Also, though, from the sheer number of Asian tourists walking around Stanford campus with SLRs around their necks, you'd think it was Mecca for Asians.


LOL. I love asian tourists. I have a hilarious story to share... but perhaps for another day when I see you all in the fall at SLS ;)

(or so I can keep hoping!)

knola002
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby knola002 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:45 pm

managamy wrote: The key may lie in the ARWU rankings, which list Harvard at #1 and Stanford at #2, while Y is outside the top 10; those rankings are highly influential in the international community.
I'm curious about the ARWU rankings, but couldn't find them via a simple google search. You wouldn't have a link would you?

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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:49 pm

knola002 wrote:
managamy wrote: The key may lie in the ARWU rankings, which list Harvard at #1 and Stanford at #2, while Y is outside the top 10; those rankings are highly influential in the international community.
I'm curious about the ARWU rankings, but couldn't find them via a simple google search. You wouldn't have a link would you?


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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:51 pm

Saya wrote:
crackberry wrote:Also, though, from the sheer number of Asian tourists walking around Stanford campus with SLRs around their necks, you'd think it was Mecca for Asians.
This is true. :P So true that it's sad. In East Asia, if you say you go to Stanford, you instantly become a celebrity. Same with Harvard. Everything else gets a, "Oh, that's great."


Wow, I seriously have to go to East Asia. I <3 everything Japanese.

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crackberry
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby crackberry » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:54 pm

I'm pretty interested by Dignan's Stanford v. Cornell anecdote. On the East Coast, people I know think of Cornell as being in that bottom tier of Ivies (ie. where the HYP, Columbia, Penn rejects go):

Tier 1: HYP
Tier 2: Columbia, Penn
Tier 3: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell

On the West Coast, my experience is that Stanford is the co-gold standard with Harvard. I've barely heard anyone talk about Cornell out here.

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Dignan
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby Dignan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:55 pm

crackberry wrote:
Dignan wrote:Outside of the legal world, I don't think that it does, even out here. My sister is a college graduate and a working professional in SF. She has lived in NorCal her entire life. When I mentioned at Christmas that I was really hoping to get into SLS, she responded: "You've been accepted by Cornell. Is there really a chance that Stanford wouldn't accept you?"

She was surprised to learn that Stanford Law is considered on par with Harvard and Yale. She assumed that SLS, along with Berkeley, would be ranked behind Columbia and Cornell. Even on the West Coast, it's difficult to overcome the presumption of Ivy League superiority.

Really?! I'm from New York City, and I've never met someone who thinks Cornell is even in the same league as Stanford.

Interestingly, I think that might be because you're from NYC. In New York, people know that Cornell is a solid step or two down from Columbia, let alone Harvard and Yale. Out here on the West Coast, I think that people are more likely to group the Ivys into one big monolith of superiority. Yes, they know that Harvard is the best, but the distinctions start to blur after that.

To be clear, I am talking about lay people. People who have professional or advanced academic degrees are going to be more tuned into the general accomplishments and prestige of the top schools. Also, I think that those who recently attended a truly elite UG school (as you did) are more aware of this stuff. When you applied to Stanford, you probably considered other top schools as well; in doing so, you learned a lot about the relative strengths of the schools. The typical college grad who went to a state school is less likely to have the same perspective.

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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:57 pm

Dignan wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Dignan wrote:Outside of the legal world, I don't think that it does, even out here. My sister is a college graduate and a working professional in SF. She has lived in NorCal her entire life. When I mentioned at Christmas that I was really hoping to get into SLS, she responded: "You've been accepted by Cornell. Is there really a chance that Stanford wouldn't accept you?"

She was surprised to learn that Stanford Law is considered on par with Harvard and Yale. She assumed that SLS, along with Berkeley, would be ranked behind Columbia and Cornell. Even on the West Coast, it's difficult to overcome the presumption of Ivy League superiority.

Really?! I'm from New York City, and I've never met someone who thinks Cornell is even in the same league as Stanford.

Interestingly, I think that might be because you're from NYC. In New York, people know that Cornell is a solid step or two down from Columbia, let alone Harvard and Yale. Out here on the West Coast, I think that people are more likely to group the Ivys into one big monolith of superiority. Yes, they know that Harvard is the best, but the distinctions start to blur after that.

To be clear, I am talking about lay people. People who have professional or advanced academic degrees are going to be more tuned into the general accomplishments and prestige of the top schools. Also, I think that those who recently attended a truly elite UG school (as you did) are more aware of this stuff. When you applied to Stanford, you probably considered other top schools as well; in doing so, you learned a lot about the relative strengths of the schools. The typical college grad who went to a state school is less likely to have the same perspective.


Now I understand. I thought that you were talking about people like us.

EDIT: What difference does it make what a lay person thinks? Won't recruiting programs and major firms have a more detailed understanding?

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Dignan
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby Dignan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:05 pm

managamy wrote:
Dignan wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Dignan wrote:Outside of the legal world, I don't think that it does, even out here. My sister is a college graduate and a working professional in SF. She has lived in NorCal her entire life. When I mentioned at Christmas that I was really hoping to get into SLS, she responded: "You've been accepted by Cornell. Is there really a chance that Stanford wouldn't accept you?"

She was surprised to learn that Stanford Law is considered on par with Harvard and Yale. She assumed that SLS, along with Berkeley, would be ranked behind Columbia and Cornell. Even on the West Coast, it's difficult to overcome the presumption of Ivy League superiority.

Really?! I'm from New York City, and I've never met someone who thinks Cornell is even in the same league as Stanford.

Interestingly, I think that might be because you're from NYC. In New York, people know that Cornell is a solid step or two down from Columbia, let alone Harvard and Yale. Out here on the West Coast, I think that people are more likely to group the Ivys into one big monolith of superiority. Yes, they know that Harvard is the best, but the distinctions start to blur after that.

To be clear, I am talking about lay people. People who have professional or advanced academic degrees are going to be more tuned into the general accomplishments and prestige of the top schools. Also, I think that those who recently attended a truly elite UG school (as you did) are more aware of this stuff. When you applied to Stanford, you probably considered other top schools as well; in doing so, you learned a lot about the relative strengths of the schools. The typical college grad who went to a state school is less likely to have the same perspective.


Now I understand. I thought that you were talking about people like us.


No, I'm definitely not talking about people who frequent a board called "top law schools." On the other hand, my sister, who had the perceptions that surprised crackberry, isn't some country bumpkin. She graduated from college (a middle-of-the-road California public college) several years ago and now makes over 100K per year and lives in SF. Most of her friends are architects, lawyers, and other professionals.

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crackberry
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby crackberry » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:08 pm

Got it. The "lay prestige" thing is pretty pointless, anyway. And yes, managamy, clearly "lay prestige" will be irrelevant to our careers.

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Dignan
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby Dignan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:13 pm

managamy wrote:EDIT: What difference does it make what a lay person thinks? Won't recruiting programs and major firms have a more detailed understanding?

Of course. I don't think anyone on this thread is arguing that lay perception will impact your ability to land a job in the legal world. Earlier, someone--actually, I think it was you--made a comment about people in a meeting or in a class being understanding if someone took a phone call from HYS. This prompted a comment from someone else who remarked that they were surprised that Stanford would be regarded in the same light as Harvard and Yale. I then shared the anecdote about my sister.

So, yes, this is idle chat. Like the majority of drivel on these threads, we're talking about things that won't "make a difference." :D

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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:16 pm

Dignan wrote:
managamy wrote:EDIT: What difference does it make what a lay person thinks? Won't recruiting programs and major firms have a more detailed understanding?

Of course. I don't think anyone on this thread is arguing that lay perception will impact your ability to land a job in the legal world. Earlier, someone--actually, I think it was you--made a comment about people in a meeting or in a class being understanding if someone took a phone call from HYS. This prompted a comment from someone else who remarked that they were surprised that Stanford would be regarded in the same light as Harvard and Yale. I then shared the anecdote about my sister.

So, yes, this is idle chat. Like the majority of drivel on these threads, we're talking about things that won't "make a difference." :D


Thanks for clarifying! You nearly scared me straight out of SLS...hahahaha. :D

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Lmao Zedong
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby Lmao Zedong » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:19 pm

crackberry wrote:I'm pretty interested by Dignan's Stanford v. Cornell anecdote. On the East Coast, people I know think of Cornell as being in that bottom tier of Ivies (ie. where the HYP, Columbia, Penn rejects go):

Tier 1: HYP
Tier 2: Columbia, Penn
Tier 3: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell

On the West Coast, my experience is that Stanford is the co-gold standard with Harvard. I've barely heard anyone talk about Cornell out here.


fwiw i'm west coast born and raised. in terms of what gets reactions in my experience, stanford would be in or a bit above the "tier 2" as you have it there - distinctly below H Y and P but above the less-prestigious ivies.

(i agree with your tiers also, except that i might argue cornell belongs in its own tier 4)

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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:22 pm

My own sister, who is a Yale UG / PhD and a professor now, thought that UVA > NYU and UCLA > Michigan, simply because those relationships are true in her particular fields. Her misconceptions were rather amusing but not on the order of Cornell > S.

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crackberry
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby crackberry » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:30 pm

managamy wrote:My own sister, who is a Yale UG / PhD and a professor now, thought that UVA > NYU and UCLA > Michigan, simply because those relationships are true in her particular fields. Her misconceptions were rather amusing but not on the order of Cornell > S.

Cue kurama20.

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Dignan
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby Dignan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:33 pm

crackberry wrote:
managamy wrote:My own sister, who is a Yale UG / PhD and a professor now, thought that UVA > NYU and UCLA > Michigan, simply because those relationships are true in her particular fields. Her misconceptions were rather amusing but not on the order of Cornell > S.

Cue kurama20.

hahaha

I've made more than one post in which I consciously avoided using NYU as an example because I wasn't in the mood to get in a protracted debate about NYU's status.

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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:34 pm

crackberry wrote:
managamy wrote:My own sister, who is a Yale UG / PhD and a professor now, thought that UVA > NYU and UCLA > Michigan, simply because those relationships are true in her particular fields. Her misconceptions were rather amusing but not on the order of Cornell > S.

Cue kurama20.


Who???

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crackberry
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby crackberry » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:36 pm

managamy wrote:
crackberry wrote:
managamy wrote:My own sister, who is a Yale UG / PhD and a professor now, thought that UVA > NYU and UCLA > Michigan, simply because those relationships are true in her particular fields. Her misconceptions were rather amusing but not on the order of Cornell > S.

Cue kurama20.


Who???

A vicious anti-NYU troll. He didn't apply to Stanford so he's not likely to get involved here. Thank god.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby BioEBear2010 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:39 pm

crackberry wrote:
managamy wrote:
crackberry wrote:
managamy wrote:My own sister, who is a Yale UG / PhD and a professor now, thought that UVA > NYU and UCLA > Michigan, simply because those relationships are true in her particular fields. Her misconceptions were rather amusing but not on the order of Cornell > S.

Cue kurama20.


Who???

A vicious anti-NYU troll. He didn't apply to Stanford so he's not likely to get involved here. Thank god.


Haha, I want him to chime in just because. Also, I don't think it's tooooo ridiculous to think that UVA > NYU or UCLA > Michigan. Also also, you're everywhere, crackberry =)

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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:42 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:Haha, I want him to chime in just because. Also, I don't think it's tooooo ridiculous to think that UVA > NYU or UCLA > Michigan. Also also, you're everywhere, crackberry =)


No, it's definitely not ridiculous. There's a perceptible difference between the schools in those two pairs, though, and she thought that A was waaaayyyy better than B. As in, "obviously you wouldn't want to apply to Michigan if you got into UCLA."

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crackberry
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby crackberry » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:44 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:Also also, you're everywhere, crackberry =)

I'm still at work at 6:45 on the Friday before a long weekend. I was supposed to go to Tahoe tonight at 9 but one of my friends has some dinner so we had to postpone until 6 a.m. tomorrow. Translation: I'm bored, I have nothing to do and won't be going out tonight.

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musketeerlady
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby musketeerlady » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:44 pm

lol at comments above on Asians' love for Harvard and Stanford. Have to agree though. Everybody in my country worships the big names. Funny story - when my bf and I visited Stanford, he burst out laughing and said it looks like China, because everyone is on bicycle (my bf is Chinese).

I would think lay prestige is important if you want to work abroad, or in fields aside from law, or even in legal non-firm like an international NGO. Certainly in finance and consulting (my field), names make the difference of whether your resume gets a look - which, to say, is the most important difference in the world when recruiting. I don't know how it works in the legal community, but I can't imagine it is much more progressive than its finance counterpart.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby BioEBear2010 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:46 pm

crackberry wrote:I'm still at work at 6:45 on the Friday before a long weekend. I was supposed to go to Tahoe tonight at 9 but one of my friends has some dinner so we had to postpone until 6 a.m. tomorrow. Translation: I'm bored, I have nothing to do and won't be going out tonight.


Haha I know the feeling. I'm still at home waiting for break to end while everyone else is back in school. I can only watch so many episodes of Big Bang Theory before I look at TLS again.

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nattybro
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby nattybro » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:50 pm

BenJ wrote:
nattybro wrote:
rolark wrote:
BenJ wrote:Not quite true. I just had an e-mail correspondence with them the other day. They will consider your file complete as soon as they get a faxed version of the Form B, but they need the original copy of Form B eventually. So your UG can fax them a copy to get your application to complete, then mail the original, which they'll get about a week later.

Yep, I heard the same thing when I called the other day.


Ok thanks, sounds like I can expedite this a little. Anyone happen to have the fax # handy?


650-723-0838

I had to ask them for it via e-mail when I did that, so it's no surprise you couldn't find the fax number. I don't think it's online.

Good luck!


Thanks for the #. Wish I was more on top of my business so I could have gotten it out before the long weekend. This form B stuff sucks. Anyway good luck with your cycle.

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Dignan
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby Dignan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:08 pm

crackberry wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:Also also, you're everywhere, crackberry =)

I'm still at work at 6:45 on the Friday before a long weekend. I was supposed to go to Tahoe tonight at 9 but one of my friends has some dinner so we had to postpone until 6 a.m. tomorrow. Translation: I'm bored, I have nothing to do and won't be going out tonight.

Similar story here. I was supposed to meet a friend at 5 who got held up until 9. I'm passing the time.

To bring this discussion back around to the purpose of the thread, I have, over the last couple of hours, managed to make myself fairly pessimistic about my chances of getting accepted by SLS. So far, everyone who has been admitted, with the exception of one URM, has a GPA of 3.9 or above. I don't have that. I also made the mistake of browsing through last year's applicant data on LSN. There were several applicants with numbers as good or better than mine who got rejected. Finally, while I have some interesting softs, I don't have the impressive PI experience that many Stanford admits seems to possess, and I did not attend an elite undergrad.

I feel like I'd be a great fit for SLS in many ways. For the first time, though, I think there's a better than even chance that I get dinged. I would get over it but, if it happens, it's going to sting more than any other rejection.

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CardinalRules
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Re: Stanford 2010!!!

Postby CardinalRules » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:12 pm

Dignan wrote:
For the first time, though, I think there's a better than even chance that I get dinged.


Despite initial optimism, I started feeling the same way about a week before I got the call. Maybe it's a good omen that you're starting to be pessimistic.




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