Harvard 2010!

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
blue5385
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby blue5385 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:08 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:It sounds like schools often accept off the waiting list in particular response to certain needs, such as replacing a High LSAT or finishing the balance for diversity... thus I'd think that the waitlist would still be pretty large, but definitely not on the order of larger than the class.

A couple hundred at most would be my guess.


yeah, my guess would be closer to that number than over 550-600. In the article Benito posted, an adcomm from Duke undergrad (IIRC) spoke about how they sometimes don't have enough oboe or violin players in their incoming class and have to pull off the waitlist to fill the gap. Law schools want diversity in many areas, but I don't think there are enough specialized little niches like violin players or people from Hawaii that they want to fill in order to justify an enormous waitlist.

User avatar
Nom Sawyer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Nom Sawyer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:09 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
blue5385 wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/education/14waitlist.html?src=me&ref=general
judging by the huge number of wait-listed hls students in previous years I bet HLS's waitlist is much larger than its incoming class. Probably at least 1,000 waitlists.


I'm sure HLS does have a long enough waiting list that it's hard to get in off of it, but I don't think the same considerations that apply to undergrad schools apply to HLS (or other law schools at the very top). They do want diversity in the class, of course, but I feel like there are a lot of differences between when I was applying to UG (my weakness then was that I probably wasn't 'well-rounded' enough and was too one-dimensional with very high grades & test scores) and the current LS application process. IMO, undergrad schools care a lot more about soft factors than law schools, so it would make sense for them to have a bigger waiting list because they have a larger range of areas where they want to ensure diversity in the incoming class, and a large waitlist allows them to cover their bases in regard to that. Some schools will have a huge waitlist because they are YP-happy, but HLS doesn't fall into that category. I dunno...I just don't think HLS will be one of those schools with a ginormous waiting list. They'd probably rather just ding people who aren't up to their standards.


It sounds like schools often accept off the waiting list in particular response to certain needs, such as replacing a High LSAT or finishing the balance for diversity... thus I'd think that the waitlist would still be pretty large, but definitely not on the order of larger than the class.

A couple hundred at most would be my guess.

well over a hundred on lsn alone last year.... thats huge


hmm then based on the ratios I guess it would be 100+ times 4 or so.. so maybe 400? I don't quite see them waitlisting 800+ though, thats a huge amount.

blue5385
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby blue5385 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:12 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:well over a hundred on lsn alone last year.... thats huge


hmm then based on the ratios I guess it would be 100+ times 4 or so.. so maybe 400? I don't quite see them waitlisting 800+ though, thats a huge amount.


Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.

User avatar
eattrucks
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:34 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby eattrucks » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:16 pm

185 on LSN last year (including those eventually accepted off the WL, 14). That is more than all of the acceptances listed on LSN for that year, 171 (this includes those who withdrew). Wait list may be around 800 and maybe more.

User avatar
Nom Sawyer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Nom Sawyer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:17 pm

eattrucks wrote:185 on LSN last year (including those eventually accepted off the WL, 14). That is more than all of the acceptances listed on LSN for that year, 171 (this includes those who withdrew). Wait list may be around 800 and maybe more.


Last year they did a massive wave of rejects/ waitlist year though without as much of the hold business.

I think with the new, spread out admissions process along with all the holds that have gone out will result in a smaller waitlist. Just speculating, but sounds reasonable to me.

User avatar
Unitas
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Unitas » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:20 pm

blue5385 wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:well over a hundred on lsn alone last year.... thats huge


hmm then based on the ratios I guess it would be 100+ times 4 or so.. so maybe 400? I don't quite see them waitlisting 800+ though, thats a huge amount.


Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.


There really isn't a way too. It varies by too many factors. IIRC for most schools in the T14 the applicant total on LSN is around 10% of total applicants to that school. But when you get to waitlists and holds a much higher percentage are going to look for things like LSN to help them decide on the WL and their chances. Skewing any possible data.

I personally believe a WL above the total seats in a class is beyond unethical and possibly actionable - not a suit mind you, but a request for them not to do it anymore(no school can reasonably assume/predict/expect that they would need a fraction of them). There is really no need for that.

User avatar
Jericwithers
Posts: 2194
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:34 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Jericwithers » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:22 pm

Final decision soon? Has anyone been talking about this, or am I the first to bring it up?

NightHooded
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:56 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby NightHooded » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:24 pm

I'm having trouble seeing the main point above... there's a waitlist of hundreds?? :shock:

Maybe I don't want to see the main point. :oops: If it is that big of a list, that's just plain mean in my opinion. You'd like to think the WL is meaningful, not simply HLS keeping folks around in case their incoming class all dies somehow

gatordude94
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:54 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby gatordude94 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:32 pm

NightHooded wrote:I'm having trouble seeing the main point above... there's a waitlist of hundreds?? :shock:

Maybe I don't want to see the main point. :oops: If it is that big of a list, that's just plain mean in my opinion. You'd like to think the WL is meaningful, not simply HLS keeping folks around in case their incoming class all dies somehow


In addition to being mean for leading so many held applicants on, it seems tremendously inefficient for the admissions staff. If deposits fall below expectations, or deferral requests rise, they might need to fill what? 25 spots? I don't see how a massive WL makes that easier. As some earlier post said, this isn't UG, it's not like HLS is going to need a Hawaiian trumpet player or Australian cancer survivor to complete the class. Maybe they'll pick kids with work experience, or high GPAs, but I can't imagine they'll need the range of options that a 800 person WL would offer.

blue5385
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby blue5385 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:56 pm

Someone should tell HLS that YLS has started their rejections...maybe it'll make Harvard issue decisions faster to compete with Yale's speediness. :wink:

agathon360
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby agathon360 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:04 pm

Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).

lta
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:16 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby lta » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:06 pm

agathon360 wrote:Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).


ugh. not what I want to hear right now...

Though I'm sure true

User avatar
Unitas
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Unitas » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:07 pm

agathon360 wrote:Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).


That is not what a WL is for, and would likely violate the Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices that all law schools agree on.

Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices wrote:7. Law schools should maintain a waiting list of reasonable length and only for a reasonable length of time. Law schools using waiting lists should ensure that final decisions about applicants placed on the waiting lists are made and communicated to the applicant as soon as possible.


I read about law schools... A lot...
You can argue reasonable in this case, but having a WL above a class size at HLS is not reasonable.
Last edited by Unitas on Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
invisiblesun
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:01 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby invisiblesun » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:08 pm

Unitas wrote:
agathon360 wrote:Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).


That is not what a WL is for, and would likely violate the Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices that all law schools agree on.

Statement of Good Admission and Financial Aid Practices wrote:7. Law schools should maintain a waiting list of reasonable length and only for a reasonable length of time. Law schools using waiting lists should ensure that final decisions about applicants placed on the waiting lists are made and communicated to the applicant as soon as possible.


I read about law schools... A lot...
You can argue reasonable in this case, but having one above a class size as the number 2 law school is not reasonable.


I mean, we are using LSN data extrapolation to come to this conclusion though. The proportion of WL'd applicants on LSN to admitted ones could be unrepresentative.

User avatar
Unitas
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Unitas » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:09 pm

invisiblesun wrote:I mean, we are using LSN data extrapolation to come to this conclusion though. The proportion of WL'd applicants on LSN to admitted ones could be unrepresentative.


I know, I argued that above. :)

Edit: on page 259 at 4:20...
Last edited by Unitas on Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
odiero
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:49 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby odiero » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:09 pm

Is Harvard the only one with such a huge WL? I've seen "Columbia: waitlisted" quite a bit in the TLS profiles.

User avatar
clintonius
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:50 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby clintonius » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:12 pm

odiero wrote:Is Harvard the only one with such a huge WL? I've seen "Columbia: waitlisted" quite a bit in the TLS profiles.

The graph for UVA is almost pure yellow.

User avatar
of Benito Cereno
Posts: 748
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:40 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby of Benito Cereno » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:12 pm

Unitas wrote:
invisiblesun wrote:I mean, we are using LSN data extrapolation to come to this conclusion though. The proportion of WL'd applicants on LSN to admitted ones could be unrepresentative.


I know, I argued that above. :)

still, if lsn lists almost 200 last year then there certainly are quite a lot of waitlisters-to-be out there right now.

User avatar
soonergirl
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:26 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby soonergirl » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:13 pm

blue5385 wrote:Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.


you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.

MTC87
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:07 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby MTC87 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:13 pm

lta wrote:
agathon360 wrote:Don't forget that the WL can be used as a polite way of rejecting a candidate; they may prefer this method with candidates that they don't want to anger (e.g. Harvard College alums, etc.).


ugh. not what I want to hear right now...

Though I'm sure true


im pretty sure this is the only reason i even got a jr1

Jrugg88
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Jrugg88 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:28 pm

soonergirl wrote:
blue5385 wrote:Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.


you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.


Any thoughts on how the applicant pool is not representative of the applicant pool? E.g. what subset of the regular applicant pool do you think LSN reflects?

User avatar
invisiblesun
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:01 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby invisiblesun » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:29 pm

Jrugg88 wrote:
soonergirl wrote:
blue5385 wrote:Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.


you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.


Any thoughts on how the applicant pool is not representative of the applicant pool? E.g. what subset of the regular applicant pool do you think LSN reflects?


The subset with mild to moderate OCD

blue5385
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby blue5385 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:31 pm

Jrugg88 wrote:
soonergirl wrote:
blue5385 wrote:Just curious, how do people calculate the ratio of LSN users to overall applicant pool, and also determine how representative LSN users are of the applicant pool as a whole? I've always wondered this, but I'm not a stats person so I can't really figure it out for myself.


you can't. LSN is young, so there are insufficient data to do so. What we do know is that the ratio varies from school to school, that it is increasing from year-to-year, and that the LSN sample is not representative of the applicant pool as a whole.


Any thoughts on how the applicant pool is not representative of the applicant pool? E.g. what subset of the regular applicant pool do you think LSN reflects?


My guess would be stronger-than-average applicants, since these people seem like they'd be more serious about law school admissions and would therefore be more likely than the applicant pool as a whole to use a resource like LSN to track the cycles of people with similar data.

User avatar
Pee N
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Pee N » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:44 pm

LOL @ everyone talking about me.

Hereon, JR1s will be sporadic.

To the posters above commenting about the "leftover" pool, which'll consist of some WL's, older non-trads with valuable WE, borderlines adding to diversity, etc. I personally can attest to the veracity of this info. I have this from the horse's mouth @ HLS admissions. Although, I should note: don't expect any such movement until about mid-late May, or even early June or later. HLS is evasive and specious about timelines. Things are looking great for me on the HLS tip. Phone interview on deck.

With much love,

PN.

PS - I didn't get 'banned' per se. I just asked TLS admin to delete some of my posts (and quoted text) because I inadvertently let out some rather invasive (identifiable) personal information out about me. Purging my entire account seemed like the most feasible option, to which I consented. Either way, I'm travelling on business as I am on a project, so I won't be posting on TLS all that much.

User avatar
soonergirl
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:26 pm

Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby soonergirl » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:47 pm

invisiblesun wrote:
The subset with mild to moderate OCD


BWAhahhahaha. so true.




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], carlos_danger, Google Adsense [Bot], hwwong, Jgats, mudiverse, tangers91, tflan19 and 15 guests