Na_Swatch wrote:Kronk wrote:tbf, way to neglect the rankings of national universities. Particularly since we're comparing universities within the USA only. Not to mention if they rank MIT near the top, it clearly doesn't fit into idea we're discussing, which is "overall" university. Since when does MIT have a law school, social sciences, etc.? We're comparing universities as a whole.
I mean, in that case, you can just show the USNWR for undergrad, which has Berkeley 21st. But my argument is predicated on the idea that graduate school is more important (because it is the degree that gets you a job, tbf). Thus making every link you posted fairly irrelevant.
The idea of comparing universities "on a whole" or "overall" is not equivalent to evaluating a university by just its graduate programs. There are wide variety of metrics possible for ranking or judging universities. In fact, I would argue that the system used by world rankings are more accurate in that they take every single aspect of a university into account.
I don't take issue with Berkeley being a top school from a solely graduate program perspective (especially if you are weighing the smaller, but still relevant graduate programs such as engineering, english, etc.) but just shifting from one category to another can cause major changes. For example, if you are basing the results on research output from a University, Columbia actually takes the number one position in some respected poles. (http://mup.asu.edu/research2007.pdf)
Honestly, my statistics speak for themselves. If you evaluate based on graduate programs only--not only does Berkeley compare to schools like Harvard, it actually exceeds all of them except for Stanford. If you want to include undergrad, it exceeds everything except for Harvard and Stanford, and Harvard might be questionable in my opinion if you count each social science as its own category and each science as its own category.
So, take it how you will. If we are looking at "full" universities (universities that offer reputable programs in all / almost all fields), there are no better schools than Harvard, Stanford, and Berkeley. If we are comparing graduate programs, there are no better overall schools than Harvard, Stanford, and Berkeley.