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Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:57 pm
by lawyering
We don't need to get into which school is better...didn't mean to re-start that war. But I do have to say that my opinion of Stanford has been quite colored by comments like that, and not in a positive way, sadly. Their financial aid office, however, is my new best friend.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:04 pm
by somewhatwayward
of Benito Cereno wrote:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... s-rankings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_High ... y_Rankings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_R ... iversities
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_No ... ffiliation
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... es-schools

not to be overly obnoxious, but by most measure (especially if you're looking at the quality of research, faculty awards, departmental rankings, etc) there isn't too much difference between stanford and schools like Columbia and Chicago. I tend to think Penn is something of a paper tiger as a research university but its undergradute college is certainly in the same class as Stanford. Duke or Northwestern or Hopkins clearly aren't.


i was thinking more in terms of prestige. i wouldn't argue that your academic experience at chicago or columbia or penn would be markedly less good than at stanford, but i still put stanford in a higher tier than those schools (esp penn). i am a northeasterner, and i didn't go to stanford. i guess it is just subjective.

also, it is noticeably easier to get into chicago, penn, columbia, duke, etc than it is to get into stanford.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:04 pm
by MichelledeMontaigne
I was trying to be a joker/wise ass and apparently Crackberry got pissed off. Let's not rehash the old argument about best schools, or about which one has more douchebags like me.

I think Harvard is the best, Crack thinks it's Stanford, USNWR thinks it's Yale. WHATEVER. The only sure thing is that HYS is a step above the rest and we are all lucky to even have the chance to attend one of those schools. I do resent the fact that Crack sometimes makes deprecatory remarks about Harvard and I was trying to balance that. Obviously I went the FOX News way and maybe went too far the other way.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:05 pm
by Herb Watchfell
of Benito Cereno wrote:not to be overly obnoxious, but by most measure (especially if you're looking at the quality of research, faculty awards, departmental rankings, etc) there isn't too much difference between stanford and schools like Columbia and Chicago. I tend to think Penn is something of a paper tiger as a research university but its undergradute college is certainly in the same class as Stanford. Duke or Northwestern or Hopkins clearly aren't.


I don't see much of a difference between Stanford, Duke, Penn, and Hopkins, especially when it comes to research:

--ImageRemoved--

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:10 pm
by crackberry
For about the 10 billionth time, the three best OVERALL universities in America are Harvard, Stanford and UC-Berkeley. There is NO argument otherwise. Period. If people want to get into this, I'm game.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:13 pm
by Herb Watchfell
crackberry wrote:There is NO argument otherwise. Period. If people want to get into this, I'm game.


you sure you don't want to go to Harvard? I think you'd fit right in.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm
by MichelledeMontaigne
Herb Watchfell wrote:
crackberry wrote:There is NO argument otherwise. Period. If people want to get into this, I'm game.


you sure you don't want to go to Harvard? I think you'd fit right in.


Stfu Herb. Harvard does not have more douchebags than the other two and I detest that stereotype.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm
by crackberry
Herb Watchfell wrote:
crackberry wrote:There is NO argument otherwise. Period. If people want to get into this, I'm game.


you sure you don't want to go to Harvard? I think you'd fit right in.

Herb, will you please out yourself in a PM? I promise I won't give you up.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:19 pm
by lawyering
Nightrunner wrote:
crackberry wrote:For about the 10 billionth time, the three best OVERALL universities in America are Harvard, Stanford and UC-Berkeley. There is NO argument otherwise. Period. If people want to get into this, I'm game.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm qualified to judge this sort of stuff, but I have to say that this:
There is NO argument otherwise. Period.

is almost certainly unwise, and almost certainly untrue.


+1. Sigh...some people never learn.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:27 pm
by crackberry
Please, someone make a coherent argument (backed up by facts) that any American university other than Stanford, Harvard or Berkeley is better than any one of those three.

One caveat is that UG rank cannot be overly inflated. People have a strange tendency to think that UG rank is by far the most important when debating this, but that idea is pretty dubious.

I suppose one could make the argument that since Berkeley doesn't have a medical school that it can't be in the discussion, but if we ignore that idea, Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley are tops.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:31 pm
by crackberry
Alright folks, I'm washing my hands of this. Enjoy Harvard, those of you who are in and will be going. To those waiting: good luck.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:34 pm
by APimpNamedSlickback
crackberry wrote:Alright folks, I'm washing my hands of this. Enjoy Harvard, those of you who are in and will be going. To those waiting: good luck.


of this thread, or are you saying that you're withdrawing your h app?

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:34 pm
by Herb Watchfell
crackberry wrote:Please, someone make a coherent argument (backed up by facts) that any American university other than Stanford, Harvard or Berkeley is better than any one of those three.

One caveat is that UG rank cannot be overly inflated. People have a strange tendency to think that UG rank is by far the most important when debating this, but that idea is pretty dubious.

I suppose one could make the argument that since Berkeley doesn't have a medical school that it can't be in the discussion, but if we ignore that idea, Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley are tops.


This post is inflammatory, "off-topic," and borders on trollish behavior. If you would like to express your newly-acquired inclination to derail purposeful and legitimate threads, please visit the lounge.

Friends, please do not bother to click that charming, little, red exclamation mark, for I have undertaken the task on your behalf.

Cheers,
Herb

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:36 pm
by Unitas
Am I the only one that noticed they are still holding people going into april? I just hope they start admitting people sometime. Looking less likely..

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:37 pm
by APimpNamedSlickback
Nightrunner wrote:awwww....I had my response all lined up and everything. I thought you might edit, but an outright deletion? Wacky.


FIF


lol

there is such a thing as objective, unassailable truth, even in this wacky world we live in man.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:38 pm
by of Benito Cereno
crackberry wrote:Please, someone make a coherent argument (backed up by facts) that any American university other than Stanford, Harvard or Berkeley is better than any one of those three.

One caveat is that UG rank cannot be overly inflated. People have a strange tendency to think that UG rank is by far the most important when debating this, but that idea is pretty dubious.

I suppose one could make the argument that since Berkeley doesn't have a medical school that it can't be in the discussion, but if we ignore that idea, Harvard, Stanford and Berkeley are tops.

well if you look at pretty much any rankings there is no evidence of there being a distinct top tier made up of those three schools. harvard is clearly always ranked first but given that the dozen or so ranking models tend to shift around the schools in the top 10 and the research quality scores, faculty awards, various peer prestige measures, etc in any rankings model don't suggest the existence of a clear or even consistent top-3 tier (ie scores drop of clearly between 3 and 4) I think the burden is on you to explain why Stanford or Berkley are really any different from Yale, Princeton, Chicago, or Columbia. Also, having spent quite a lot of time around European academics in the humanities and social sciences, I can tell you very clearly, and this may have a lot to do with geography and the cultures of the california schools, that your top three is not a widely shared opinion. I'm not a Chicago alum (I went to another top 10 school) but the general opinion I get from academics working in the social sciences and humanities is that no school has had greater influence on western intellectual life in the past 60 years than Chicago (I've spent the past couple of years wishing I made a different UG choice even though I went to a higher ranked school).
I know this will be discussed further here but I have tons of work tonight so this is my last contribution.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:56 pm
by Sauer Grapes
Nightrunner wrote:
crackberry wrote:There is NO argument otherwise. Period.

is almost certainly unwise, and almost certainly untrue.

crackberry is the Al Gore of American University rankings.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:03 pm
by notanumber
Ranking schools is dumb.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:05 pm
by owhlcn
notanumber wrote:Ranking schools is dumb.


amen nota

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:38 pm
by someones alt
So uh, no one else got held today then?

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:07 pm
by Kronk
rofl at this thread. In crackberry's defense, though, Stanford has the lowest acceptance rate of any undergrad. At least west of the Mississippi, Stanford is considered every bit as good as HYP. I wouldn't say Berkeley is on that level as far as lay prestige goes, but it is definitely not far behind. If you're going to include grad school and actually look at rankings, I'm not sure I'd even include Yale, and I'd just say Stanford and Berkeley are the best overall schools.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:15 pm
by DoubleChecks
Kronk wrote:rofl at this thread. In crackberry's defense, though, Stanford has the lowest acceptance rate of any undergrad. At least west of the Mississippi, Stanford is considered every bit as good as HYP. I wouldn't say Berkeley is on that level as far as lay prestige goes, but it is definitely not far behind. If you're going to include grad school and actually look at rankings, I'm not sure I'd even include Yale, and I'd just say Stanford and Berkeley are the best overall schools.



im a bit confused -- why is berkeley in this overall best 3 trinity? lol i can see the argument made for H, S, Chicago, etc., but i just dont see it for berkeley -- i mean, the ugrad there (while not the most important factor, is still a major factor given it has no med school as crack said) isnt even in the same league as S or H in selectivity (assuming you're from cali)

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:16 pm
by invisiblesun
someones alt wrote:So uh, no one else got held today then?


Did you? That is one ridiculously late hold.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:17 pm
by legalnoeagle
Kronk wrote:rofl at this thread. In crackberry's defense, though, Stanford has the lowest acceptance rate of any undergrad. At least west of the Mississippi, Stanford is considered every bit as good as HYP. I wouldn't say Berkeley is on that level as far as lay prestige goes, but it is definitely not far behind. If you're going to include grad school and actually look at rankings, I'm not sure I'd even include Yale, and I'd just say Stanford and Berkeley are the best overall schools.



You would.

Re: Harvard 2010!

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:18 pm
by BioEBear2010
DoubleChecks wrote:
Kronk wrote:rofl at this thread. In crackberry's defense, though, Stanford has the lowest acceptance rate of any undergrad. At least west of the Mississippi, Stanford is considered every bit as good as HYP. I wouldn't say Berkeley is on that level as far as lay prestige goes, but it is definitely not far behind. If you're going to include grad school and actually look at rankings, I'm not sure I'd even include Yale, and I'd just say Stanford and Berkeley are the best overall schools.



im a bit confused -- why is berkeley in this overall best 3 trinity? lol i can see the argument made for H, S, Chicago, etc., but i just dont see it for berkeley -- i mean, the ugrad there (while not the most important factor, is still a major factor given it has no med school as crack said) isnt even in the same league as S or H in selectivity (assuming you're from cali)

I would not put Berkeley in the same league as HYPS (or a host of other privates) for undergrad education. What gives Berkeley such global renown is the strength of its graduate programs and its research contributions.