Harvard 2010!

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:10 am

amidea wrote:
managamy wrote:LSAC compensates for these factors by creating %iles for applicants' GPAs compared to the GPAs of other applicants from their specific school. It's on your summary sheet.
[


I meant more generally, not just when applying to law school. I'm not sure if employers or other grad/med/whatever schools get percentile ranks (maybe they do, I have no idea) so from that perspective, looking at comparably rigorous schools you can have the average student at one have a higher GPA from an average student from another and it doesn't necessarily mean the first is a better student or smarter than the second. If 40% of the class has a 3.8+, it's hard to compare those students, even with percentile rank anyway because a lot of people will have the same GPA.


i dont know about other grad schools, but even for law school this is a pretty imperfect system. its been beaten to death. is a 3.4 at a community college = to a 3.4 at a T1 undergrad? well, for law adcomms, it (for the most part) is. now HYP may give you a small boost, some majors like engineering might give you a small boost, but generally speaking, your GPA for law is that GPA (or rather LSAC's).

other grad schools, however, look at more than just a GPA, i.e. business school, grad school, medical school, pharm school, etc. law in particular is very numbers-oriented. not too sure why...

the whole process for law is a bit sketchy. i mean, the difference between getting into a T5 or a lower T14 is possibly just two questions on the LSAT lol.

curiousnyc
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby curiousnyc » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:12 am

The LSAC gpa for a school is just for the law school applicants from that school, right?

So, what does that tell us, for example, about average GPA for Harvard students in general and thus grade inflation: higher or lower than 3.46? Not much, right?

If the Harvard ug have the highest LSATs of any school, can we sort of guess they have higher GPAs than their classmates, tho that seems a bit shaky logic?
Last edited by curiousnyc on Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:13 am

curiousnyc wrote:The LSAC gpa for a school is just for the law school applicants from that school, right?

So, what does that tell us, for example, about average GPA for Harvard students in general and thus grade inflation: higher or lower than 3.43? Not much, right?

If the Harvard ug have the highest LSATs of any school, can we sort of guess they have higher GPAs than their classmates, tho that seems a bit shaky logic?


shaky. a school full of super bright students could have lower GPAs just because their school practices grade deflation and they are curved to a lower GPA. is swarthmore like that?

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letsgojayhawks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby letsgojayhawks » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:15 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
curiousnyc wrote:The LSAC gpa for a school is just for the law school applicants from that school, right?

So, what does that tell us, for example, about average GPA for Harvard students in general and thus grade inflation: higher or lower than 3.43? Not much, right?

If the Harvard ug have the highest LSATs of any school, can we sort of guess they have higher GPAs than their classmates, tho that seems a bit shaky logic?


shaky. a school full of super bright students could have lower GPAs just because their school practices grade deflation and they are curved to a lower GPA. is swarthmore like that?


I think MIT is like that, I'm not positive though. Doesn't Princeton have a very strict curve as well?

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:18 am

curiousnyc wrote:The LSAC gpa for a school is just for the law school applicants from that school, right?

So, what does that tell us, for example, about average GPA for Harvard students in general and thus grade inflation: higher or lower than 3.46? Not much, right?

If the Harvard ug have the highest LSATs of any school, can we sort of guess they have higher GPAs than their classmates, tho that seems a bit shaky logic?


I would agree that generally the students who apply to law school tend to be the better ones (but this is definitely not the case for everyone), but like you said it's pretty shaky logic and I don't think we can't actually deduce anything from it.

And Princeton's policy is all A (A+, A, A-) grades account for less than 35% of grades given in classes, or something along those lines. I've heard stories where kids get a 94 average or so but then get a B+ because the professor says "sorry, I ran out of As" (obviously in more diplomatic language).

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:25 am

amidea wrote:
curiousnyc wrote:The LSAC gpa for a school is just for the law school applicants from that school, right?

So, what does that tell us, for example, about average GPA for Harvard students in general and thus grade inflation: higher or lower than 3.46? Not much, right?

If the Harvard ug have the highest LSATs of any school, can we sort of guess they have higher GPAs than their classmates, tho that seems a bit shaky logic?


I would agree that generally the students who apply to law school tend to be the better ones (but this is definitely not the case for everyone), but like you said it's pretty shaky logic and I don't think we can't actually deduce anything from it.

And Princeton's policy is all A (A+, A, A-) grades account for less than 35% of grades given in classes, or something along those lines. I've heard stories where kids get a 94 average or so but then get a B+ because the professor says "sorry, I ran out of As" (obviously in more diplomatic language).


Haha 35% A's is still quite a lot... not saying its wrong, I'd be kind of mad because I think my averages for all my A's is around a 94. Still we give out way less than 35% A's

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:28 am

SolarWind wrote:
amidea wrote:
curiousnyc wrote:The LSAC gpa for a school is just for the law school applicants from that school, right?

So, what does that tell us, for example, about average GPA for Harvard students in general and thus grade inflation: higher or lower than 3.46? Not much, right?

If the Harvard ug have the highest LSATs of any school, can we sort of guess they have higher GPAs than their classmates, tho that seems a bit shaky logic?


I would agree that generally the students who apply to law school tend to be the better ones (but this is definitely not the case for everyone), but like you said it's pretty shaky logic and I don't think we can't actually deduce anything from it.

And Princeton's policy is all A (A+, A, A-) grades account for less than 35% of grades given in classes, or something along those lines. I've heard stories where kids get a 94 average or so but then get a B+ because the professor says "sorry, I ran out of As" (obviously in more diplomatic language).


Haha 35% A's is still quite a lot... not saying its wrong, I'd be kind of mad because I think my averages for all my A's is around a 94. Still we give out way less than 35% A's


+1. 35% sounds like a good amount lol. more than a third of the class gets an A, that's not bad at all. the 94 story just seems like the professor isnt setting up a proper curve.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:37 am

yea people are actually dissuaded from taking easy classes because you might end up getting B's for what should've been an easy A class. and it's actually 35% over an entire department (i think?) so individual classes can have more or less. people are also dissuaded from taking advanced classes in which the majority of the class will be majors who will eat up the As. and while 35% is a decent amount, it's definitely less than the grade inflated schools - princeton used to be about 50% A's, which makes a big difference.

according to these articles:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ ... ades_N.htm
http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/artic ... s-apluses/

more than 50% of grades at harvard two years ago were A's, and there were (not sure if there are any anymore) classes at cornell where the MEDIAN was an A. that seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.

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catwoman
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby catwoman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:22 am

amidea wrote:yea people are actually dissuaded from taking easy classes because you might end up getting B's for what should've been an easy A class. and it's actually 35% over an entire department (i think?) so individual classes can have more or less. people are also dissuaded from taking advanced classes in which the majority of the class will be majors who will eat up the As. and while 35% is a decent amount, it's definitely less than the grade inflated schools - princeton used to be about 50% A's, which makes a big difference.

according to these articles:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ ... ades_N.htm
http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/artic ... s-apluses/

more than 50% of grades at harvard two years ago were A's, and there were (not sure if there are any anymore) classes at cornell where the MEDIAN was an A. that seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.


The Princeton alums I know often conveniently forget that it's not actually 35% in practice -- "However, five years later in the 2008-2009 academic year, As still made up 39.7 percent of all grades—and even this relatively high number was considered a major accomplishment."

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby somewhatwayward » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:42 am

I'm pretty sure they do adjust for quality of school, although I doubt they use an explicit numerical index. Average gpa for people accepted to hls from harvard undergrad is a bit below 3.7 (including urms). So harvard undergrads get grade inflation and need lower grades to get in.
On the other hand, presumably adcoms keep some kind of track on people once they matriculate, and experience shows that a 3.7 from harvard is comparable to whatever the mean is for the general population of admitted students.


where'd you get that stat from?

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CardinalRules
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby CardinalRules » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:45 am

This topic (grade-inflation, GPA distribution, etc.) perhaps could use an independent thread. The conversation seems to have drifted away from HLS a bit.

Shadyb
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Shadyb » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:57 am

amidea wrote:
more than 50% of grades at harvard two years ago were A's, and there were (not sure if there are any anymore) classes at cornell where the MEDIAN was an A. that seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.


lol, those are the same thing! So you should really be more shocked by Harvard having an overall median of A than of some outlier profs at Cornell who have a median of A.

hesitantstyle
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby hesitantstyle » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:37 am

amidea wrote:yea people are actually dissuaded from taking easy classes because you might end up getting B's for what should've been an easy A class. and it's actually 35% over an entire department (i think?) so individual classes can have more or less. people are also dissuaded from taking advanced classes in which the majority of the class will be majors who will eat up the As. and while 35% is a decent amount, it's definitely less than the grade inflated schools - princeton used to be about 50% A's, which makes a big difference.

according to these articles:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ ... ades_N.htm
http://www.thecrimson.harvard.edu/artic ... s-apluses/

more than 50% of grades at harvard two years ago were A's, and there were (not sure if there are any anymore) classes at cornell where the MEDIAN was an A. that seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.
Last edited by hesitantstyle on Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PoorOrpheus
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby PoorOrpheus » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:48 am

managamy wrote:This topic (grade-inflation, GPA distribution, etc.) perhaps could use an independent thread. The conversation seems to have drifted away from HLS a bit.


I second this. Anyone receive a JR1 e-mail or JR2 today?

02082010
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby 02082010 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:09 pm

Still @ app received even though I applied 11/20. No JR1 email to speak of.

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pocketwatcher
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby pocketwatcher » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:56 pm

Under review since 11/23, no JR1 email. Sigh.

sonja b
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby sonja b » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:58 pm

crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


I'm in this boat with you crackberry, and I agree that it's irritating.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Shadyb wrote:
amidea wrote:
more than 50% of grades at harvard two years ago were A's, and there were (not sure if there are any anymore) classes at cornell where the MEDIAN was an A. that seems a little ridiculous if you ask me.


lol, those are the same thing! So you should really be more shocked by Harvard having an overall median of A than of some outlier profs at Cornell who have a median of A.


i was actually saying both are ridiculous, not just cornell, so i agree. and again sorryy for hijacking the thread it wasn't supposed to take this direction.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:29 pm

sonja b wrote:
crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


I'm in this boat with you crackberry, and I agree that it's irritating.


I personally agree with whoever stated earlier that they'd rather get a JR1 and no JR2... Maybe it's just because I haven't gotten a JR1 but from this uninformed point of view I think I'd at least rather know that I was worth considering, whereas if I don't get a JR1 it's kind of like a slap in the face, like they're laughing that you even applied.

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crackberry
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby crackberry » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:54 pm

amidea wrote:
sonja b wrote:
crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


I'm in this boat with you crackberry, and I agree that it's irritating.


I personally agree with whoever stated earlier that they'd rather get a JR1 and no JR2... Maybe it's just because I haven't gotten a JR1 but from this uninformed point of view I think I'd at least rather know that I was worth considering, whereas if I don't get a JR1 it's kind of like a slap in the face, like they're laughing that you even applied.

A guess a workable analogy is would you rather lose a sports contest in heartbreaking fashion or in a relative blow-out? I'm not sure this question has an answer, but I often feel like a blow-out is way less painful than losing a barnburner.

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Burberry by Burberry
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Burberry by Burberry » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:42 pm

crackberry wrote:
amidea wrote:
sonja b wrote:
crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


I'm in this boat with you crackberry, and I agree that it's irritating.


I personally agree with whoever stated earlier that they'd rather get a JR1 and no JR2... Maybe it's just because I haven't gotten a JR1 but from this uninformed point of view I think I'd at least rather know that I was worth considering, whereas if I don't get a JR1 it's kind of like a slap in the face, like they're laughing that you even applied.

A guess a workable analogy is would you rather lose a sports contest in heartbreaking fashion or in a relative blow-out? I'm not sure this question has an answer, but I often feel like a blow-out is way less painful than losing a barnburner.

I would rather lose the championship match then not even get to play.

georgina
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby georgina » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:50 pm

Burberry by Burberry wrote:
crackberry wrote:A guess a workable analogy is would you rather lose a sports contest in heartbreaking fashion or in a relative blow-out? I'm not sure this question has an answer, but I often feel like a blow-out is way less painful than losing a barnburner.

I would rather lose the championship match then not even get to play.


by applying, you play. by not getting a JR1, you failed to make the championship match. i am with crackberry, figuratively and literally.

michelle kwan comes to mind (but maybe that's because of amidea's tar), and if i were her, i would rather have not medaled than have had to experience the repeat non-gold sadness.

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Burberry by Burberry
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Burberry by Burberry » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:55 pm

georgina wrote:
Burberry by Burberry wrote:
crackberry wrote:A guess a workable analogy is would you rather lose a sports contest in heartbreaking fashion or in a relative blow-out? I'm not sure this question has an answer, but I often feel like a blow-out is way less painful than losing a barnburner.

I would rather lose the championship match then not even get to play.


by applying, you play. by not getting a JR1, you failed to make the championship match. i am with crackberry, figuratively and literally.

michelle kwan comes to mind (but maybe that's because of amidea's tar), and if i were her, i would rather have not medaled than have had to experience the repeat non-gold sadness.

I was talking about playing in the championship match. Every NFL team can play football, but only two can play in the Super Bowl. I would rather lose the Super Bowl than not even play in it.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:01 pm

georgina wrote:
Burberry by Burberry wrote:
crackberry wrote:A guess a workable analogy is would you rather lose a sports contest in heartbreaking fashion or in a relative blow-out? I'm not sure this question has an answer, but I often feel like a blow-out is way less painful than losing a barnburner.

I would rather lose the championship match then not even get to play.


by applying, you play. by not getting a JR1, you failed to make the championship match. i am with crackberry, figuratively and literally.

michelle kwan comes to mind (but maybe that's because of amidea's tar), and if i were her, i would rather have not medaled than have had to experience the repeat non-gold sadness.


speaking from personal experience, not medaling at nationals sucks. but not making it to nationals sucks even more, especially when you thought you had a shot. whether or not this applies to JR1 is debatable, but while we're speaking in figure skating analogies, that's my take on it.

edit: on the other hand, i'm not michelle kwan. i'll take a silver medal any day!

02082010
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby 02082010 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:03 pm

:shock: Under review at HLS as of today. I guess they do change the status checkers in the afternoon because I was still at app received earlier today. Hoping for a JR1 email this week or early next!!




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