Harvard 2010!

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capitalacq
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby capitalacq » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:16 pm

amidea wrote:
GargamelITT wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
lol, hope not. my percentile's even lower, and it's not at HYP.

keep in mind you've probably already got a solidly self-selective group there because that's only among students who are applying to law school

edit: oh yeah and, uh, they go to HYP


i thought HYP had heavy grade inflation?? maybe not to get that stellar 4.0, but to get relatively high GPAs


it is known for heavy grade inflation. but the extent to which the grades are inflated actually isn't relevant here. the OP's actual GPA isn't the matter at hand; it's his GPA relative to his classmates. whether A's are fairly easy to get or very difficult to get at his school, it's still the same pool of highly talented people he is up against.


my HYP --> grade deflation, not inflation. according to LSAC, the mean is a 3.43.
me/OP --> a she, not a he (see avatar for confirmation)[/quote]

3.43 is pretty high....


but anyway, the grade inflation is offset by the difficulty (of course there are exceptions though)

georgina
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby georgina » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:20 pm

capitalacq wrote:but anyway, the grade inflation is offset by the difficulty (of course there are exceptions though)


yes! and by the number of internationally ranked youth scientists/writers/geniuses/future nobel laureates that tend to congregate at HYP and who really shouldn't be compared with normal people.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:22 pm

capitalacq wrote:
amidea wrote:
GargamelITT wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
lol, hope not. my percentile's even lower, and it's not at HYP.

keep in mind you've probably already got a solidly self-selective group there because that's only among students who are applying to law school

edit: oh yeah and, uh, they go to HYP


i thought HYP had heavy grade inflation?? maybe not to get that stellar 4.0, but to get relatively high GPAs


it is known for heavy grade inflation. but the extent to which the grades are inflated actually isn't relevant here. the OP's actual GPA isn't the matter at hand; it's his GPA relative to his classmates. whether A's are fairly easy to get or very difficult to get at his school, it's still the same pool of highly talented people he is up against.


my HYP --> grade deflation, not inflation. according to LSAC, the mean is a 3.43.
me/OP --> a she, not a he (see avatar for confirmation)


3.43 is pretty high....


but anyway, the grade inflation is offset by the difficulty (of course there are exceptions though)[/quote]

I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:26 pm

amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Well I think barely any schools have a 2.4 mean lol.

But yeah, among HYP the mean is something like 3.4-3.6.
LSAC had ours at like a 3.23 and I think thats close to average.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:28 pm

Sorry to hijack the thread with all this talk about grades though, I was just wondering about the importance of the percentile rank. Time to go back to worrying about JR1s and 2s! Well, not so much JR2 for me, I'm still stuck waiting for the first.

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fidesverita
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby fidesverita » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:30 pm

crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


Haha, I disagree. At least you had a fighting chance. Not getting a JR1 is like a big slap in the face, particularly if you think you had a chance in the beginning.

But both suck nonetheless.

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GeePee
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby GeePee » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:53 pm

fidesverita wrote:
crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


Haha, I disagree. At least you had a fighting chance. Not getting a JR1 is like a big slap in the face, particularly if you think you had a chance in the beginning.

But both suck nonetheless.

I would quit whining and retake the LSAT. Maybe then you'll have a fighting chance.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:19 pm

SolarWind wrote:
amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Well I think barely any schools have a 2.4 mean lol.

But yeah, among HYP the mean is something like 3.4-3.6.
LSAC had ours at like a 3.23 and I think thats close to average.


yeah my school's mean GPA is around yours at 3.2 or 3.3 ish. I wouldn't say it is particularly high or low, but the school actually moving in a grade deflation direction, so i guess they think its still too high haha.

pissantvache
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby pissantvache » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:23 pm

GeePee wrote:
fidesverita wrote:
crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


Haha, I disagree. At least you had a fighting chance. Not getting a JR1 is like a big slap in the face, particularly if you think you had a chance in the beginning.

But both suck nonetheless.

I would quit whining and retake the LSAT. Maybe then you'll have a fighting chance.


Well that's all well and good, until you are at a high enough level that you can't really have a reasonable expectation of getting a higher score on the LSAT, people with your numbers have gotten in, and you're left out in the cold. That's the sucky part, since you have (clearly) flubbed something on the application, somewhere. no good!

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GeePee
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby GeePee » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:27 pm

pissantvache wrote:
GeePee wrote:
fidesverita wrote:
crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


Haha, I disagree. At least you had a fighting chance. Not getting a JR1 is like a big slap in the face, particularly if you think you had a chance in the beginning.

But both suck nonetheless.

I would quit whining and retake the LSAT. Maybe then you'll have a fighting chance.


Well that's all well and good, until you are at a high enough level that you can't really have a reasonable expectation of getting a higher score on the LSAT, people with your numbers have gotten in, and you're left out in the cold. That's the sucky part, since you have (clearly) flubbed something on the application, somewhere. no good!

I was responding to one person in particular, not in general. If your numbers are competitive, and you have yet to receive a JR1, I understand. If your numbers really don't even give you a fighting chance, and you're holding out hope for a JR1 while doing nothing, see above.

jmkelly
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby jmkelly » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:37 pm

.
Last edited by jmkelly on Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:47 pm

pissantvache wrote:Well that's all well and good, until you are at a high enough level that you can't really have a reasonable expectation of getting a higher score on the LSAT, people with your numbers have gotten in, and you're left out in the cold. That's the sucky part, since you have (clearly) flubbed something on the application, somewhere. no good!


Yup that'd be me.

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hoopsguy6
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby hoopsguy6 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:52 pm

Hattori Hanzo wrote:
pissantvache wrote:Well that's all well and good, until you are at a high enough level that you can't really have a reasonable expectation of getting a higher score on the LSAT, people with your numbers have gotten in, and you're left out in the cold. That's the sucky part, since you have (clearly) flubbed something on the application, somewhere. no good!


Yup that'd be me.


+1. Hanzo, I think you're my numbers twin. Damn you LSP, for giving me hope at Harvard.

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sayan
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby sayan » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:06 pm

pissantvache wrote:
GeePee wrote:
fidesverita wrote:
crackberry wrote:Honestly, I'd rather not get a JR1 than get a JR1 but no JR2, which is where a handful of us sit right now. Consider yourselves somewhat lucky.


Haha, I disagree. At least you had a fighting chance. Not getting a JR1 is like a big slap in the face, particularly if you think you had a chance in the beginning.

But both suck nonetheless.

I would quit whining and retake the LSAT. Maybe then you'll have a fighting chance.


Well that's all well and good, until you are at a high enough level that you can't really have a reasonable expectation of getting a higher score on the LSAT, people with your numbers have gotten in, and you're left out in the cold. That's the sucky part, since you have (clearly) flubbed something on the application, somewhere. no good!


or they're letting in all the overachiever high scoreers WITH good softs and strong PSs in before letting in the other people. i imagine a strong correlation between overachievers and applying early hence the reasoning.

when that deluge winds down to a trickle and you're left surrounded by applicants with low 170s and below median GPAs then you will most likely be accepted.
Last edited by sayan on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:07 pm

jmkelly wrote:
amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Harvard's is 3.46, for what it's worth. Don't know if that's considered to be heavily inflated.


thats inflated

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sayan
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby sayan » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:09 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
jmkelly wrote:
amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Harvard's is 3.46, for what it's worth. Don't know if that's considered to be heavily inflated.


thats inflated


how is that inflated? i imagine the average caliber of student ar Harvard is so much greater than most schools that it's unsurprising their mean/median GPA is 1-1.5 standard deviation(s) higher than average.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:11 pm

hoopsguy6 wrote:
Hattori Hanzo wrote:
pissantvache wrote:Well that's all well and good, until you are at a high enough level that you can't really have a reasonable expectation of getting a higher score on the LSAT, people with your numbers have gotten in, and you're left out in the cold. That's the sucky part, since you have (clearly) flubbed something on the application, somewhere. no good!


Yup that'd be me.


+1. Hanzo, I think you're my numbers twin. Damn you LSP, for giving me hope at Harvard.


At least you already have Cal in the bag. I have nothing yet :(

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:21 pm

sayan wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
jmkelly wrote:
amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Harvard's is 3.46, for what it's worth. Don't know if that's considered to be heavily inflated.


thats inflated


how is that inflated? i imagine the average caliber of student ar Harvard is so much greater than most schools that it's unsurprising their mean/median GPA is 1-1.5 standard deviation(s) higher than average.


As much as I hate grade deflation, I think I agree with the reasoning that GPA should be used to compare students within a school. Harvard students should have higher GPAs than the average student at the average student's school, but if you're just looking at the "average caliber of student" then places like community colleges should have very low average GPAs and all the top schools should have higher GPA averages, but as far as I know, that's not the case. But maybe I don't know anything about GPAs across the nation.

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CardinalRules
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby CardinalRules » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:22 pm

[quote="amidea]

As much as I hate grade deflation, I think I agree with the reasoning that GPA should be used to compare students within a school. Harvard students should have higher GPAs than the average student at the average student's school, but if you're just looking at the "average caliber of student" then places like community colleges should have very low average GPAs and all the top schools should have higher GPA averages, but as far as I know, that's not the case. But maybe I don't know anything about GPAs across the nation.[/quote]

LSAC compensates for these factors by creating %iles for applicants' GPAs compared to the GPAs of other applicants from their specific school. It's on your summary sheet.

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sayan
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby sayan » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:28 pm

amidea wrote:
sayan wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:[quoe="jmkelly"]
amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Harvard's is 3.46, for what it's worth. Don't know if that's considered to be heavily inflated.


thats inflated[qote]

how is that inflated? i imagine the average caliber of student ar Harvard is so much greater than most schools that it's unsurprising their mean/median GPA is 1-1.5 standard deviation(s) higher than average.


As much as I hate grade deflation, I think I agree with the reasoning that GPA should be used to compare students within a school. Harvard students should have higher GPAs than the average student at the average student's school, but if you're just looking at the "average caliber of student" then places like community colleges should have very low average GPAs and all the top schools should have higher GPA averages, but as far as I know, that's not the case. But maybe I don't know anything about GPAs across the nation.


the problem is that GPA is quantitative while the quality of a school is not. unless they made some sort of numerical index to adjust GPAs across schools (to "adjust" for better competition at better schools), grade inflation makes sense within reason.

jmkelly
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby jmkelly » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:01 am

.
Last edited by jmkelly on Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:06 am

sayan wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
jmkelly wrote:
amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Harvard's is 3.46, for what it's worth. Don't know if that's considered to be heavily inflated.


thats inflated


how is that inflated? i imagine the average caliber of student ar Harvard is so much greater than most schools that it's unsurprising their mean/median GPA is 1-1.5 standard deviation(s) higher than average.


relative to other schools, this is an inflated GPA. im not saying it should be something else, or other students are smarter...just the curve for classes at HLS is high when its a 3.46. all the students at harvard are presumably better, and GPA is for comparison within a school. sure LSAC uses it to compare students from other schools too, but thats why the standardized LSAT exists and why there are academic summary reports.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:51 am

managamy wrote:LSAC compensates for these factors by creating %iles for applicants' GPAs compared to the GPAs of other applicants from their specific school. It's on your summary sheet.
[


I meant more generally, not just when applying to law school. I'm not sure if employers or other grad/med/whatever schools get percentile ranks (maybe they do, I have no idea) so from that perspective, looking at comparably rigorous schools you can have the average student at one have a higher GPA from an average student from another and it doesn't necessarily mean the first is a better student or smarter than the second. If 40% of the class has a 3.8+, it's hard to compare those students, even with percentile rank anyway because a lot of people will have the same GPA.

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letsgojayhawks
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby letsgojayhawks » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:03 am

sayan wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
jmkelly wrote:
amidea wrote:
I had thought it was slightly lower than say Harvard (clearly I do not go to Harvard), so I'm only comparing among HYP, as opposed to schools with really tough grading policies where the mean is like 2.4. I could be wrong though.


Harvard's is 3.46, for what it's worth. Don't know if that's considered to be heavily inflated.


thats inflated


how is that inflated? i imagine the average caliber of student ar Harvard is so much greater than most schools that it's unsurprising their mean/median GPA is 1-1.5 standard deviation(s) higher than average.


That's really inflated. My school actually practices grade deflation. I don't know what the mean is offhand, but I know that 7% of students in my major get A grades and that papers are never marked higher than 88%. Oh yeah, we don't have A+ grades either.

amidea
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Re: Harvard 2010!

Postby amidea » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:09 am

letsgojayhawks wrote:

That's really inflated. My school actually practices grade deflation. I don't know what the mean is offhand, but I know that 7% of students in my major get A grades and that papers are never marked higher than 88%. Oh yeah, we don't have A+ grades either.


Yea, we don't get A+s either. Does Harvard give them? Our policy isn't quite as harsh as 7%. Ouch!

Edit: actually that's not true. They're just very, very, very rare.
Last edited by amidea on Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.




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