thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

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fedtaxed
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby fedtaxed » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:03 pm

This thread is hilarious!! Thanks, everyone.

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Cupidity
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby Cupidity » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:05 pm

LawandOrder wrote:Schools below the T14 aren't worth it to attend generally, even with a full scholarship, unless you plan to live and practice in that area forever, or have other circumstances. Rankings matter little once you've dropped so low, and region becomes important.


Dumbest comment ever.

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crombot
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby crombot » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:17 am

I wish we could do a "where are they now?" update on the posters in this thread 5 years from now.

Those who didn't get WE and went straight to law school w t14 or bust mentality will be the ones who burn out after their 1st year when they realize: 1) biglaw is doing away with the lockstep compensation system for associates. Doing it for the money, or the 'promise' of biglaw, doesn't mean the same thing anymore! And these changes aren't just ITE, these changes are staying.
2) they will be working along side t50 grads who have signifantly less debt and will start out w the same pay. Biglaw is starting to realize that very smart kids go to schools outside of the t14 for financial reasons. This frustration, driven from being a 0L d-bag who thinks that the school you got your JD from will somehow definitely translate into 'success',will lead to subpar work performance, and come time for associate raises, they get left in the dust by everyone else.

Or maybe not. It just seems that a lot of ppl on here really haven't had hands on experience at law firms, or are completely ignorant to the reality of the changes in biglaw, or haven't spent significant time speaking with practicing attorneys.

Okay, typed that entirely on my G1. Hands....hurt...

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jack duluoz
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby jack duluoz » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:49 am

misbuble wrote:incorrect, a J.D. from a Teir 3/4 is worthless, get into a different profession
the lsat is pretty easy, and getting a decent gpa is easy, if you can't do one/both these things, don't expect your personallity to get you into big law firms, they need intellegent motivated people, and not meeting one of these 2 standards means something,

go watch demitri martin's "If I"...that's intellegence, now go to a T3/4 law school, look at your median student, that's an ambulance chaser

it annoys me that people equate this so called elitism with discrimination, sorry your crappy career potential doesn't entice us T14/bust or T1/bust TLS'ers, check the website


so misbuble is T10 or bust? Something isn't adding up here.... :roll:

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byu85
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby byu85 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:54 am

Wait for T1, it makes the WORLD of a difference, TRUST ME (I'm a 1L at a top 50 (Utah) and have friends at tier 4's, it's a bad move to say the least as far as getting a job goes, T50 is hard enough..)

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Great Satchmo
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:11 pm

I love that people treat the "unless you plan to stay there..." as a bad thing.

If you can't go to a national school (T14, T10, Twhatever), it seems most people pick there area they want to be in, and then go to a regional school there. How is that a bad thing?

I, personally, know the regions in which I want to live (including the one I'm in now). Thusly, since I'm not going to a Twhatever, I will be picking a regional school with a good reputation and alumni network for where I want to live.

Why is that bad?

psychomohel
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby psychomohel » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:25 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:I love that people treat the "unless you plan to stay there..." as a bad thing.

If you can't go to a national school (T14, T10, Twhatever), it seems most people pick there area they want to be in, and then go to a regional school there. How is that a bad thing?

I, personally, know the regions in which I want to live (including the one I'm in now). Thusly, since I'm not going to a Twhatever, I will be picking a regional school with a good reputation and alumni network for where I want to live.

Why is that bad?


I don't think anyone said that was bad.

nycparalegal
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby nycparalegal » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:37 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:I love that people treat the "unless you plan to stay there..." as a bad thing.

If you can't go to a national school (T14, T10, Twhatever), it seems most people pick there area they want to be in, and then go to a regional school there. How is that a bad thing?

I, personally, know the regions in which I want to live (including the one I'm in now). Thusly, since I'm not going to a Twhatever, I will be picking a regional school with a good reputation and alumni network for where I want to live.

Why is that bad?


I'm pretty sure that's traditionally how law school worked. People would go regionally to make local connections.

shutterbug
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby shutterbug » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:41 pm

sweens005 wrote:
Schools below the T14 aren't worth it to attend generally, even with a full scholarship, unless you plan to live and practice in that area forever, or have other circumstances. Rankings matter little once you've dropped so low, and region becomes important



You're an idiot.


+1.

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NosferatuDracon
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby NosferatuDracon » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:42 pm

Mase85 wrote:Got accepted to Widener, which is a tier 4, its close to my family, rent's not too high, and it will be more affordable. Id like to practice corp law, but that could change once I learn more about it. Delaware ppl boast widener to be great for corp law, but I don't know if that's just a way they cope with the school being tier 4.

However, I have been waitlisted at a T14 and at a tier 2 (77th to be exact) and I'm still waiting on some decisions from a tier 1 and a tier 2...all of these options will definitely be harder to pay for and are a little further from fam/cheap living.

So, tell me if I should stay on the waitlists, go to any tier 1/2 I'm accepted to even if they are lower ranked in 1 & 2, and if Id be foolish to go to the tier4...and if I accept it now as a safety, is it possible to abandon it if a better school removes me from the wait?

Hopefully, I didn't ask a question that people are tired of answering but I would appreciate some input!


All the major firms that have offices in downtown Wilmington, recruit from the top schools(or top in their class at Temple, Nova, Maryland) for their corporate law practices. Widener is only good for smaller practices and government. While there are certainly exceptions to this rule, they are few and far between. While I understand the desire to to want to live close to your family and have cheap housing options. I'd suggest looking at the Philly schools and if necessary take the train from Wilmington to any one of them. You're employment options will be far greater coming from any one of those schools than Widener.

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jsoell
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby jsoell » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:45 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:I love that people treat the "unless you plan to stay there..." as a bad thing.

If you can't go to a national school (T14, T10, Twhatever), it seems most people pick there area they want to be in, and then go to a regional school there. How is that a bad thing?

I, personally, know the regions in which I want to live (including the one I'm in now). Thusly, since I'm not going to a Twhatever, I will be picking a regional school with a good reputation and alumni network for where I want to live.

Why is that bad?


Yeah, I don´t know who bumped this back up to the front page, but I can´t decide if it was a good or a bad thing. I cringed the whole way through the first page of posts. If I wanted to work where I´m from (Mississippi), I´d go to Ole Miss and likely get onto a successful track upon graduation (I have family and friends all over the state, know lawyers at good state firms, did my undergrad at Ole Miss). I wouldn´t consider that failure.

When I read through posts like the first ones on this thread, I have the vision of a synthesis of people I´ve known, some of whom are or have been my friends, but the primary image is a mix of someone deadset on their path and unable or unwilling to really listen to other people´s perspectives and someone hyperventillating when a carefully assembled plan derails. It´s a type of cult of sucess that only allows one vision of itself and therefore only one path to reach it.

All that being said, I don´t envy the moderators on TLS. These heated back-and-forths take place on the same topics month after month, with the precedents buried in the archives time after time. Sort of brings to mind the punishment of Prometheus (my apologies for bringing out a myth - I was not a classics major and don´t pretend to know much about mythology - just always thought this was a particularly cruel punishment and seemed analogous to constantly policing sophomores arguing about the same issues).

As for the question of if anyone said picking a regional school was bad, while no one specifically attacked Great Satchmo's argument, LawandOrder did say

You certainly are right about it being a case of difference of expectations and outlook on life. You consider $60k starting plus low debt as at least not failing, but if I am going to invest $150,000 in debt plus a similiar forgone amount in income from the three years spent in law school, I think I am fully justified in expecting a job paying deep in to the $100s starting.

I guess I don't get it. I am about a year out of undergrad with one of those "practical majors" making closer to 60 than to 30 and I certainly don't feel like I've succeeded. Why would I want to go to law school and end up in the same position I am now? That's a massive waste of time and money.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

It's not that I think anyone attacked the argument that being locked into a regional is necessarily an inherently terrible thing. It's that it appears to be an implicit assumption in some arguments of the "elitist - don't go to a non-T14 school" posters here.

I think the presumption is that success is dichotomous, and it involves the ability to pick the firm anywhere in the country and to make $200k your second year out of law school. Surely this would be nice. However, the reality is that it is not something everyone can obtain. This is not a value statement where some people "make it" and some don't. This is the reality of life, some people will be successful and lucky, and some will be other shades of it (not even taking into account personal values).

This is the nature of any job. Some people come from the Ivy's, and get lucky for those few, prestigious jobs. The majority, however, will not have that.

I think it's especially focused upon here because people see their acceptance to a certain school as a ticket to wealth. The first year out of school salary that is reported seems to draw people's admiration and respect. It's biglaw, bigpay or bust. Not to say those aren't goals of many, or shouldn't be, but it's not a reality of most people in all areas of employment.


For those who actually want to go into law for the law, I guess it's best to ignore the posters here looking for the fast-track to wealth, power, and prestige and little else.
Last edited by Great Satchmo on Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:15 pm

High LSAT / Low uGPA wrote:
misbuble wrote:
He is not an idiot. I'll take it further, schools below the T12 are not worth attending, even with a full scholarship, unless you plan to live and practice in that area forever.

fixed

now stop cluttering the market you inferior prospectives


In fact, schools lesser than HYS are not worth attending, and Stanford only if you get a full ride. The other 98% of law students are not only retarded, they should be lined up against a wall and shot to declutter the market.


I literally spit out my drink when I saw this.

On another note, LawandOrder is the type of moron who measures success and self-worth purely in terms of money.




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