decision at duke

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dresden doll
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:23 pm

jdn012 wrote:While I don't see Duke out-right rejecting a 167/3.9, it's not impossible, esp. if they are trying to up their stats. And DD, i agree about the yield aspect. If I'm not mistaken, I think Duke may have the lowest yield in the T14.

Anybody else think there's going to be a lot of waitlist movement at Duke (esp. with LSN data from last year showing very few acceptances after Feb.)?


I have no doubt they're ambitious about upping their stats. I just don't think they can up them as dramatically as they appear to be trying to. It's one thing to go from 165-170 to 166-171; quite another to push to the range where 169 constitutes the 25th percentile. Those are t6 stats. I just don't see Duke making the drastic jump to that level in the span of one cycle.

As I'd mentioned before, someone told me that they did something similar last year and ended up digging deep into their WL. So all taken into consideration, answer to your question is a big yes. I don't think they can possibly dispense enough scholarship money to do away with the need of admitting many more 168s and 167s than they have so far.

pomona
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Re: decision at duke

Postby pomona » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:26 pm

dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:While I don't see Duke out-right rejecting a 167/3.9, it's not impossible, esp. if they are trying to up their stats. And DD, i agree about the yield aspect. If I'm not mistaken, I think Duke may have the lowest yield in the T14.

Anybody else think there's going to be a lot of waitlist movement at Duke (esp. with LSN data from last year showing very few acceptances after Feb.)?


I have no doubt they're ambitious about upping their stats. I just don't think they can up them as dramatically as they appear to be trying to. It's one thing to go from 165-170 to 166-171; quite another to push to the range where 169 constitutes the 25th percentile. Those are t6 stats. I just don't see Duke making the drastic jump to that level in the span of one cycle.

As I'd mentioned before, someone told me that they did something similar last year and ended up digging deep into their WL. So all taken into consideration, answer to your question is a big yes. I don't think they can possibly dispense enough scholarship money to do away with the need of admitting many more 168s and 167s than they have so far.


Per LSN, they've accepted a few 165-166s outright (that is, not off the waitlist) so perhaps they've already realized they likely won't be able to up their 25/75 this cycle?

jdn012
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Re: decision at duke

Postby jdn012 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:31 pm

dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:While I don't see Duke out-right rejecting a 167/3.9, it's not impossible, esp. if they are trying to up their stats. And DD, i agree about the yield aspect. If I'm not mistaken, I think Duke may have the lowest yield in the T14.

Anybody else think there's going to be a lot of waitlist movement at Duke (esp. with LSN data from last year showing very few acceptances after Feb.)?


I have no doubt they're ambitious about upping their stats. I just don't think they can up them as dramatically as they appear to be trying to. It's one thing to go from 165-170 to 166-171; quite another to push to the range where 169 constitutes the 25th percentile. Those are t6 stats. I just don't see Duke making the drastic jump to that level in the span of one cycle.

As I'd mentioned before, someone told me that they did something similar last year and ended up digging deep into their WL. So all taken into consideration, answer to your question is a big yes. I don't think they can possibly dispense enough scholarship money to do away with the need of admitting many more 168s and 167s than they have so far.


I'm not sure Duke is headed there either. Maybe they are going for that extra point on the median, bumping it to 170, putting them on par with UVA/Penn, etc. This is all speculation of course, Duke's admissions office seems to know what they are doing so I guess all we can do now is wait and see.

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dresden doll
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:32 pm

pomona wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:While I don't see Duke out-right rejecting a 167/3.9, it's not impossible, esp. if they are trying to up their stats. And DD, i agree about the yield aspect. If I'm not mistaken, I think Duke may have the lowest yield in the T14.

Anybody else think there's going to be a lot of waitlist movement at Duke (esp. with LSN data from last year showing very few acceptances after Feb.)?


I have no doubt they're ambitious about upping their stats. I just don't think they can up them as dramatically as they appear to be trying to. It's one thing to go from 165-170 to 166-171; quite another to push to the range where 169 constitutes the 25th percentile. Those are t6 stats. I just don't see Duke making the drastic jump to that level in the span of one cycle.

As I'd mentioned before, someone told me that they did something similar last year and ended up digging deep into their WL. So all taken into consideration, answer to your question is a big yes. I don't think they can possibly dispense enough scholarship money to do away with the need of admitting many more 168s and 167s than they have so far.


Per LSN, they've accepted a few 165-166s outright (that is, not off the waitlist) so perhaps they've already realized they likely won't be able to up their 25/75 this cycle?


How many of them are URMs though? URMs, in my thinking, are a category of their own.

I do know of one non-URM 166 that got in - but he interviewed when asked to. I'm persuaded (and so he is, I believe - we've exchanged a few PMs) that that's what really helped put him over the top.

jdn012
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Re: decision at duke

Postby jdn012 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:34 pm

I guess this is part of Duke's gauging interest measurement. The interview signals how much the applicant wants to attend/or be accepted by Duke. It's a pretty big gesture to go interview (esp. if you're not from the area).

pomona
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Re: decision at duke

Postby pomona » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:36 pm

dresden doll wrote:
pomona wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:While I don't see Duke out-right rejecting a 167/3.9, it's not impossible, esp. if they are trying to up their stats. And DD, i agree about the yield aspect. If I'm not mistaken, I think Duke may have the lowest yield in the T14.

Anybody else think there's going to be a lot of waitlist movement at Duke (esp. with LSN data from last year showing very few acceptances after Feb.)?


I have no doubt they're ambitious about upping their stats. I just don't think they can up them as dramatically as they appear to be trying to. It's one thing to go from 165-170 to 166-171; quite another to push to the range where 169 constitutes the 25th percentile. Those are t6 stats. I just don't see Duke making the drastic jump to that level in the span of one cycle.

As I'd mentioned before, someone told me that they did something similar last year and ended up digging deep into their WL. So all taken into consideration, answer to your question is a big yes. I don't think they can possibly dispense enough scholarship money to do away with the need of admitting many more 168s and 167s than they have so far.


Per LSN, they've accepted a few 165-166s outright (that is, not off the waitlist) so perhaps they've already realized they likely won't be able to up their 25/75 this cycle?


How many of them are URMs though? URMs, in my thinking, are a category of their own.

I do know of one non-URM 166 that got in - but he interviewed when asked to. I'm persuaded (and so he is, I believe - we've exchanged a few PMs) that that's what really helped put him over the top.


2 non-URM 165s, who were also invited to interview. But regardless of whether the interview is what put them over the top or not (and I agree that it this was likely the reason), they were still accepted.

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dresden doll
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:41 pm

jdn012 wrote:I guess this is part of Duke's gauging interest measurement. The interview signals how much the applicant wants to attend/or be accepted by Duke. It's a pretty big gesture to go interview (esp. if you're not from the area).


Credited.

I just don't see the value of potentially antagonizing/discarding sub-169 candidates. Many of such people will do just fine at MPBV and peer schools like Cornell. And Duke will need them, sooner or later.

I didn't get the interview offer and neither did alleycat (who, btw, is a very strong candidate). Don't know what that signifies but I'll say one thing: telling people to fly down for an interview is asking quite a bit. (Heck, NU provides for the possibility of interviewing with an alumni, and their requirement applies to everyone indiscriminately). Either way, I am not personally in any position to fly down there for an interview. I just couldn't manage it, regardless of how much I might care to.

jdn012
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Re: decision at duke

Postby jdn012 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:50 pm

dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:I guess this is part of Duke's gauging interest measurement. The interview signals how much the applicant wants to attend/or be accepted by Duke. It's a pretty big gesture to go interview (esp. if you're not from the area).


Credited.

I just don't see the value of potentially antagonizing/discarding sub-169 candidates. Many of such people will do just fine at MPBV and peer schools like Cornell. And Duke will need them, sooner or later.

I didn't get the interview offer and neither did alleycat (who, btw, is a very strong candidate). Don't know what that signifies but I'll say one thing: telling people to fly down for an interview is asking quite a bit. (Heck, NU provides for the possibility of interviewing with an alumni, and their requirement applies to everyone indiscriminately). Either way, I am not personally in any position to fly down there for an interview. I just couldn't manage it, regardless of how much I might care to.


Totally understand. I think, however, that going through this entire application process has been eye-opening, to say the least. Almost all schools, I venture, antagonize some candidates while pleasing others. Those who are accepted quickly and early on are probably going to have a much more pleasant experience in dealing with a school than others that are waiting for months. You find plenty of examples on this board of people who have had mixed experiences with a particular school.

It's an interesting process but at the same time, I think I can gauge which schools were really interested in my app and which schools weren't. Kind of works both ways. I know you've had somewhat of an odd cycle DD, but you are a very strong candidate.

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dresden doll
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:32 pm

jdn012 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:I guess this is part of Duke's gauging interest measurement. The interview signals how much the applicant wants to attend/or be accepted by Duke. It's a pretty big gesture to go interview (esp. if you're not from the area).


Credited.

I just don't see the value of potentially antagonizing/discarding sub-169 candidates. Many of such people will do just fine at MPBV and peer schools like Cornell. And Duke will need them, sooner or later.

I didn't get the interview offer and neither did alleycat (who, btw, is a very strong candidate). Don't know what that signifies but I'll say one thing: telling people to fly down for an interview is asking quite a bit. (Heck, NU provides for the possibility of interviewing with an alumni, and their requirement applies to everyone indiscriminately). Either way, I am not personally in any position to fly down there for an interview. I just couldn't manage it, regardless of how much I might care to.


Totally understand. I think, however, that going through this entire application process has been eye-opening, to say the least. Almost all schools, I venture, antagonize some candidates while pleasing others. Those who are accepted quickly and early on are probably going to have a much more pleasant experience in dealing with a school than others that are waiting for months. You find plenty of examples on this board of people who have had mixed experiences with a particular school.

It's an interesting process but at the same time, I think I can gauge which schools were really interested in my app and which schools weren't. Kind of works both ways. I know you've had somewhat of an odd cycle DD, but you are a very strong candidate.


Yep, I definitely seem to have been picked to stew in for extra long by the vast majority of my schools! But, hey, no rejections yet and I am sitting on some acceptances. It's funny how quickly one forgives the wait, too: I got into UCLA this Friday (with money too) and found myself forgiving them for torturing me for three lovely months about as soon as I got the happy call.

Agreed, the admissions process has been quite eye-opening. I will say I'm very curious about how it'll play out with Duke more so than any other school. They'll be the one school whose LSAT range I'll be taking particular interest in at the closing of this cycle. And if it turns out to have failed to budge an inch, well then....there will be some humor to that, too.

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dresq
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresq » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:54 pm

dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
jdn012 wrote:I guess this is part of Duke's gauging interest measurement. The interview signals how much the applicant wants to attend/or be accepted by Duke. It's a pretty big gesture to go interview (esp. if you're not from the area).


Credited.

I just don't see the value of potentially antagonizing/discarding sub-169 candidates. Many of such people will do just fine at MPBV and peer schools like Cornell. And Duke will need them, sooner or later.

I didn't get the interview offer and neither did alleycat (who, btw, is a very strong candidate). Don't know what that signifies but I'll say one thing: telling people to fly down for an interview is asking quite a bit. (Heck, NU provides for the possibility of interviewing with an alumni, and their requirement applies to everyone indiscriminately). Either way, I am not personally in any position to fly down there for an interview. I just couldn't manage it, regardless of how much I might care to.


Totally understand. I think, however, that going through this entire application process has been eye-opening, to say the least. Almost all schools, I venture, antagonize some candidates while pleasing others. Those who are accepted quickly and early on are probably going to have a much more pleasant experience in dealing with a school than others that are waiting for months. You find plenty of examples on this board of people who have had mixed experiences with a particular school.

It's an interesting process but at the same time, I think I can gauge which schools were really interested in my app and which schools weren't. Kind of works both ways. I know you've had somewhat of an odd cycle DD, but you are a very strong candidate.


Yep, I definitely seem to have been picked to stew in for extra long by the vast majority of my schools! But, hey, no rejections yet and I am sitting on some acceptances. It's funny how quickly one forgives the wait, too: I got into UCLA this Friday (with money too) and found myself forgiving them for torturing me for three lovely months about as soon as I got the happy call.

Agreed, the admissions process has been quite eye-opening. I will say I'm very curious about how it'll play out with Duke more so than any other school. They'll be the one school whose LSAT range I'll be taking particular interest in at the closing of this cycle. And if it turns out to have failed to budge an inch, well then....there will be some humor to that, too.

Speaking as someone who did the interview at Duke, maybe I can shed some light on what's going on. Dean Hoye said that while despite the overall dip in applications across the country, Duke's applications have soared. They've never had a cycle like this, so they're not sure what to make of it. They can't just rely on their historic matriculation rates. Since Duke has a very small class, their budgets can't really handle the demands that would come from over-enrollment by even 30 people or so. As a result, they're being really careful to avoid that kind of over-enrollment. Maybe they're worried that people might go with more $$$ and low COL versus higher prestige this cycle due to the economy.

jdn012
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Re: decision at duke

Postby jdn012 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:56 pm

interesting info dresq, thanks a lot!

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dresden doll
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:00 pm

Interestingly enough, none of the schools I applied to this cycle has reported a dip in the overall number of applications. Just my luck.

However, I'm hardly surprised that Duke has seen a surge in number of apps submitted. They've pretty much invited applicants as hard as they could via Priority Track and fee waivers. Surely, they must have expected an increased in-flow of apps. One wouild have thought that that would be one of their chief goals, really.

Also, the economy situation could well push people into attending higher ranked schools rather than vice versa. The more market tanks, the greater the amount of relief a person might draw from obtaining their JD from YHS as opposed to tier 2. Just my two cents.

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Re: decision at duke

Postby teedy » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:06 pm

I agree with that Dresden. I also think that the rise in their applications doesn't necessarily mean people are more intrested in Duke, which I'm sure Admissions is inclined to think, but rather its due to fee waivers and priority track. How many of those people are really going to give up HYS for Duke?

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dresden doll
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:10 pm

teedy wrote:I agree with that Dresden. I also think that the rise in their applications doesn't necessarily mean people are more intrested in Duke, which I'm sure Admissions is inclined to think, but rather its due to fee waivers and priority track. How many of those people are really going to give up HYS for Duke?


Yeah. I mean, I'd pretty much need to actively dislike a school in order to say 'no thank you' when a T14 tosses a waiver plus priority track my way. Free app with decision guaranteed in 10 days? Sign me up. They've given out a lot of those, too; I have a hard time thinking they didn't hope/expect number of apps would surge as the result.

Not trying to knock dresq's info or anything, of course. Thanks for your input and congrats on that acceptance, dresq!

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Re: decision at duke

Postby teedy » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:13 pm

I forgot to mention I am also biased because I'm afraid that I'm about to be rejected.

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dresq
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresq » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:30 pm

I generally agree with you guys; I was just relaying their point of view. They definitely got way too many applications due to the gratuitous Priority Track stuff and alienated non-PT applicants. While no one would argue that someone would give up HYS in favor of Duke, we're talking about MVPB and, to a lesser extent, even CCN. (And, yes, I know someone that gave up Chicago to go to Duke for the $$$, weather, and low COL.) I'm in at all of the non-HYSCCN schools (and anticipating WL at HYSCCN), and I'm going wherever is most financially advantageous between VPB and D, unless one of HYS lets me through the gates. The differences in my job prospects are so small that they are essentially negligible, as far as I'm concerned. Differences in financial aid and COL may be very significant, though.

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frissle
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Re: decision at duke

Postby frissle » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:23 pm

I went to decision Feb 16th... had an interview this past friday. I thought it went pretty well but haven't gotten an email yet. Should I assume rejection? 168 and 3.82

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dresden doll
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresden doll » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:27 pm

frissle wrote:I went to decision Feb 16th... had an interview this past friday. I thought it went pretty well but haven't gotten an email yet. Should I assume rejection? 168 and 3.82


Assume acceptance. Seriously. Those who have done the interview have all been accepted thus far, including applicants with stats lower than yours. Cheers!

steindle
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Re: decision at duke

Postby steindle » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:42 pm

Let the rain of 2/13 dings begin. That's one rejection for me!

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dresq
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Re: decision at duke

Postby dresq » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:54 pm

dresden doll wrote:
frissle wrote:I went to decision Feb 16th... had an interview this past friday. I thought it went pretty well but haven't gotten an email yet. Should I assume rejection? 168 and 3.82


Assume acceptance. Seriously. Those who have done the interview have all been accepted thus far, including applicants with stats lower than yours. Cheers!

I don't know about everyone else, but I was offered admission on the spot at the end of the interview.

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frissle
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Re: decision at duke

Postby frissle » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:55 pm

Assume acceptance. Seriously. Those who have done the interview have all been accepted thus far, including applicants with stats lower than yours. Cheers![/quote]

thanks dresden doll! let's hope you are right

ufgatorgrad2009
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Re: decision at duke

Postby ufgatorgrad2009 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:28 pm

2/13 Decision made.....got the letter today... denied

anastasia
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Re: decision at duke

Postby anastasia » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:48 pm

2/13 rejected...but that was expected

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apicelp
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Re: decision at duke

Postby apicelp » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:54 pm

My first ding.

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seraphita
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Re: decision at duke

Postby seraphita » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:44 am

I just went to decision on Feb. 17, and apparently will be notified soon.

I'm a bit surprised at getting outright rejected, since I was put on hold or waitlisted at similarly ranked schools. Still, with a 166/3.95, I sure wasn't expecting an acceptance.




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