Top Law Schools

Jwatson wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:

Jwatson wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.

Median private sector salary is 75k.

most of whom accept job offers from private law firms and receive first-year salaries of $75,000 at the median.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/iowa-college-of-law.html

The TLS profiles are very, very outdated.

The average private sector salary is 90k: http://www.law.uiowa.edu/careers/stats- ... salary.php

Median is also different than average but either way those statistics on almost all the schools through TLS profiles are outdated.

um ok and the link you gave me isn't?

Starting salary information varies greatly between the type of employment and the location of employment. Here are the averages for the Class of 2006.

Again MEDIAN>MEAN.

2006 is the last year that MOST schools have reported for there employment information (look at the USN report to confirm) so it is all we have to go by. I'm not arguing with you, no need to get husty. Just making sure the right information is out there. As for median being better than mean, I already said I disagree but that's just my opinion.

rainmaker614 wrote:
2006 is the last year that MOST schools have reported for there employment information (look at the USN report to confirm) so it is all we have to go by. I'm not arguing with you, no need to get husty. Just making sure the right information is out there. As for median being better than mean, I already said I disagree but that's just my opinion.

You should maybe take a statistics class. There are things we call outliers.

Jwatson wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:
2006 is the last year that MOST schools have reported for there employment information (look at the USN report to confirm) so it is all we have to go by. I'm not arguing with you, no need to get husty. Just making sure the right information is out there. As for median being better than mean, I already said I disagree but that's just my opinion.

You should maybe take a statistics class. There are things we call outliers.

Again, I'm unsure why you insist on attacking my opinion? Let's not make this into one of the other TLS threads were people fight about stupid shit. I stated what the average salary was and you decided to post your statistic as if it corrected mine, when it didn't. If it is my opinion that an average salary statistic is important, so be it. Chill.

rainmaker614 wrote:

Jwatson wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:
2006 is the last year that MOST schools have reported for there employment information (look at the USN report to confirm) so it is all we have to go by. I'm not arguing with you, no need to get husty. Just making sure the right information is out there. As for median being better than mean, I already said I disagree but that's just my opinion.

You should maybe take a statistics class. There are things we call outliers.

Again, I'm unsure why you insist on attacking my opinion? Let's not make this into one of the other TLS threads were people fight about stupid shit. I stated what the average salary was and you decided to post your statistic as if it corrected mine, when it didn't. If it is my opinion that an average salary statistic is important, so be it. Chill.

I am not attacking, I am correcting something that is illogical. And may I add, I am not the only one on this board that has attempted to correct you on this. If you think the mean is more significant, please do defend your position.

This is a silly disagreement. How you perform in law school and what type of law you practice--and where--will decide your starting salary. Trying to ascertain what you expect to make three years from now based on a school's outdated average starting salary figures (especially in this economy) is a complete waste of time, IMHO.

Arguing about it is an even bigger waste of time.

Jwatson wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:

Jwatson wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:
2006 is the last year that MOST schools have reported for there employment information (look at the USN report to confirm) so it is all we have to go by. I'm not arguing with you, no need to get husty. Just making sure the right information is out there. As for median being better than mean, I already said I disagree but that's just my opinion.

You should maybe take a statistics class. There are things we call outliers.

Again, I'm unsure why you insist on attacking my opinion? Let's not make this into one of the other TLS threads were people fight about stupid shit. I stated what the average salary was and you decided to post your statistic as if it corrected mine, when it didn't. If it is my opinion that an average salary statistic is important, so be it. Chill.

I am not attacking, I am correcting something that is illogical. And may I add, I am not the only one on this board that has attempted to correct you on this. If you think the mean is more significant, please do defend your position.

Simply put, I think outliers are significant. I want to know about the people that made significantly more or less than what was "normal" at that school. Again, this is just me and my opinion is quite simply none of your business considering that I haven't tried to push it on anyone. I just stated the average salary and said that I think the average is a more important number. Even if you think I'm wrong (and I'm sure many will for completely logical reasons), it is an opinion and thus something you should respect. And may I add, I don't care to discuss this any further.

As for what you said here: "Just because they "hire" at Iowa doesn't mean they will "hire" at Iowa. Take a look at all the vault firms, plenty of them go to schools' OCIs but they didn't end up hiring any from those schools."

This doesn't pertain to the information I was referring to. The list I was looking at is of firms that actually hire at Iowa and gives the statistics of those hires and even goes as far as to compare them to several other midwest schools (unfortunately, only for a few firms though). The list isn't of firms that attend OCI. I'm not sure why you insist on arguing about everything and setting out to disprove things that don't require so, but please chill on the negativity and being a smart ass for the sake of being a smart ass. This is after all an Iowa thread, so if you want to disagree with any point that reflects positive on the school, please take it elsewhere. Now enough of this and back to talking about the school itself....

rainmaker614 wrote: Simply put, I think outliers are significant. I want to know about the people that made significantly more or less than what was "normal" at that school. Again, this is just me and my opinion is quite simply none of your business considering that I haven't tried to push it on anyone. I just stated the average salary and said that I think the average is a more important number. Even if you think I'm wrong (and I'm sure many will for completely logical reasons), it is an opinion and thus something you should respect. And may I add, I don't care to discuss this any further.

As for what you said here: "Just because they "hire" at Iowa doesn't mean they will "hire" at Iowa. Take a look at all the vault firms, plenty of them go to schools' OCIs but they didn't end up hiring any from those schools."

This doesn't pertain to the information I was referring to. The list I was looking at is of firms that actually hire at Iowa and gives the statistics of those hires and even goes as far as to compare them to several other midwest schools (unfortunately, only for a few firms though). The list isn't of firms that attend OCI. I'm not sure why you insist on arguing about everything and setting out to disprove things that don't require so, but please chill on the negativity and being a smart ass for the sake of being a smart ass. This is after all an Iowa thread, so if you want to disagree with any point that reflects positive on the school, please take it elsewhere. Now enough of this and back to talking about the school itself....

I am sure you will become a great lawyer. Ciao

Lawguru wrote:

hoosier1508 wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.

Average salary is not more meaningful than the median.

The average salary is going to be skewed by the students who get high paying big law jobs. Most students at Iowa don't get these jobs and therefore the average is going to be artificially high.

Also, I would not place a lot of reliance on these employment #'s coming from the schools and USNews. These #'s only include students whom actually provided their employment status. Typically the response rate hovers around 50%, so what the rest of the class is doing is largely unknown. In addition, all this data is self-reported, so it could be completely fabricated.

The don't "Get" these jobs? That's a bunch of shit. Most Iowa students in the top half of their class can find a good big law job some place in the midwest in a good economic climate. 40 percent of Iowa grads CHOOSE to stay in state. How many big firms are there in Iowa? Answer: NOT MANY.

Especially for KC, MSP, St. Louis, and even Chi, Iowa places extremely well.

You have to be the most defensive, irrational poster on this website. Is that why you changed your username?

If you look at the data, fewer than 25% of Iowa grads obtain what would be considered "Big Law". This is pretty consistent with other schools in its range, so I don't know why you take issue with it. Also, this silly notion that 40% of the class self selects to stay in state is purely speculative. You could use that argument at just about any Non T14 school. How do you know these students had employment opportunities out of state?

I'm a big fan of the school, but I don't live in fantasyland like Lawguru and Rainmaker. Just like any school in Iowa's range, going to Iowa law and doing well doesn't guarantee you anything.

If people are this sensitive about going to Iowa then I guess its impossible to have a realistic discussion about employment prospects. Rainmaker wants to talk himself into going to Iowa by posting these rosy statistics which will make him feel better about his choice. From this point, I'll let him go forward unimpeded in his little fantasy.

People, these arguments have no bearing on whether Iowa is a good school. This thread is turning into just another biglaw pissing match. If you want to discuss the value of mean salary as a statistic, take it to another board. We all know Iowa =/= Harvard. There’s no point in rehashing this crap. Before the last page or so, this thread was the exemplar of civility on tls. For those of you attending Iowa, you will have to live with each other for 3 years. I suggest you find a way to put this all behind you or find different schools.

Consider yourselves lucky to be admitted a school like Iowa. Some folks who dearly want to attend Iowa (biglaw or not) will not get the chance.

I'll hang out with you in IC, mikey.

crystalhawkeye wrote:I'll hang out with you in IC, mikey.

Good deal, Crystal.

I liked it better when we all just got along. I'm pretty confident I'll have a job post-graduation; if I don't make 80k (or even 60k) right off the bat, oh well, I guess I'll have to work a few years for it just like most others. Odds are good I'll still make more starting salary than my mom does presently after 40 years as a legal secretary. It's the weekend. Stop, smell the roses, have a beer:

Hooray beer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfGkhhm4vXw

I agree! But Guinness is the only beer I know

hoosier1508 wrote:

Lawguru wrote:

hoosier1508 wrote:

rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.

Average salary is not more meaningful than the median.

The average salary is going to be skewed by the students who get high paying big law jobs. Most students at Iowa don't get these jobs and therefore the average is going to be artificially high.

Also, I would not place a lot of reliance on these employment #'s coming from the schools and USNews. These #'s only include students whom actually provided their employment status. Typically the response rate hovers around 50%, so what the rest of the class is doing is largely unknown. In addition, all this data is self-reported, so it could be completely fabricated.

The don't "Get" these jobs? That's a bunch of shit. Most Iowa students in the top half of their class can find a good big law job some place in the midwest in a good economic climate. 40 percent of Iowa grads CHOOSE to stay in state. How many big firms are there in Iowa? Answer: NOT MANY.

Especially for KC, MSP, St. Louis, and even Chi, Iowa places extremely well.

You have to be the most defensive, irrational poster on this website. Is that why you changed your username?

If you look at the data, fewer than 25% of Iowa grads obtain what would be considered "Big Law". This is pretty consistent with other schools in its range, so I don't know why you take issue with it. Also, this silly notion that 40% of the class self selects to stay in state is purely speculative. You could use that argument at just about any Non T14 school. How do you know these students had employment opportunities out of state?

I'm a big fan of the school, but I don't live in fantasyland like Lawguru and Rainmaker. Just like any school in Iowa's range, going to Iowa law and doing well doesn't guarantee you anything.

If people are this sensitive about going to Iowa then I guess its impossible to have a realistic discussion about employment prospects. Rainmaker wants to talk himself into going to Iowa by posting these rosy statistics which will make him feel better about his choice. From this point, I'll let him go forward unimpeded in his little fantasy.

I'm not being irrational Hoosier, my point is that plenty of people choose NOT to do big law. I, for one, don't want to pursue a career in big law. I think people on TLS going to Iowa are defensive (if at all) because of sthe harshness with which the westsides of TLS of been posting on here. It is sort of something we've been trained to do I agree with your stats, but I'm saying that they way the were spun was, well, "shit." Also, considering around 40 % of the student body is from Iowa, and is choosing to go to school in Iowa, the chances of 40 percent of the students being content with staying in Iowa are pretty darn good.

Anyway, I agree, we should all just "get along"

Just got this email:

Dear Mr. ******:

We appreciate your continuing interest in The University of Iowa College of Law.



The Admissions Committee has completed its initial review of your application for admission to the College of Law. We have decided to place your file in the hold decision category. This is a category in which we place applications that have impressive records, and that we are interested in holding on to, at this time. In addition, we want to see how the rest of the application pool develops before we make a final decision on the hold decision files.



Approximately 50% of all applications for admission are placed in the hold decision category.



One final note: There is very little that we will be able to tell you about the status of your file, since the quality and quantity of the applicant pool, and yield rates for admitted applicants, will have an impact on the final admission decisions. On the other hand, you should feel free to send any new information or updates about yourself. All we ask is that the information you send to us be something new or different from what we already have in your file, and will shed a new or unique light on your application for admission.



Once again, we appreciate your interest in The University of Iowa College of Law. We will be in touch with you as soon as a final decision has been made.





Sincerely,





Collins B. Byrd, Jr.

Assistant Dean of Admissions

I guess this is better than a rejection, I didn't think I had much of a shot at Iowa anyway. I won't have much to send them because I'm out of school and just working until law school starts. So, really nothing new is going to happen to me, like new grades, volunteer work, etc. Is there anything I can do to impress them?

Maybe a new statement? Diversity statement? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head to write a targeted LOR...hmmm....I'd really like to go to Iowa.

kak23 wrote:Just got this email:

Dear Mr. ******:

We appreciate your continuing interest in The University of Iowa College of Law.



The Admissions Committee has completed its initial review of your application for admission to the College of Law. We have decided to place your file in the hold decision category. This is a category in which we place applications that have impressive records, and that we are interested in holding on to, at this time. In addition, we want to see how the rest of the application pool develops before we make a final decision on the hold decision files.



Approximately 50% of all applications for admission are placed in the hold decision category.



One final note: There is very little that we will be able to tell you about the status of your file, since the quality and quantity of the applicant pool, and yield rates for admitted applicants, will have an impact on the final admission decisions. On the other hand, you should feel free to send any new information or updates about yourself. All we ask is that the information you send to us be something new or different from what we already have in your file, and will shed a new or unique light on your application for admission.



Once again, we appreciate your interest in The University of Iowa College of Law. We will be in touch with you as soon as a final decision has been made.





Sincerely,





Collins B. Byrd, Jr.

Assistant Dean of Admissions

I guess this is better than a rejection, I didn't think I had much of a shot at Iowa anyway. I won't have much to send them because I'm out of school and just working until law school starts. So, really nothing new is going to happen to me, like new grades, volunteer work, etc. Is there anything I can do to impress them?

Maybe a new statement? Diversity statement? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head to write a targeted LOR...hmmm....I'd really like to go to Iowa.

I'd write to them expressing your continued interest in Iowa, why you are interested in Iowa, whether you'd attend of accepted, etc.

pomona wrote:I'd write to them expressing your continued interest in Iowa, why you are interested in Iowa, whether you'd attend of accepted, etc.

Agreed. Just be very specific and honest. They'll probably get a bunch of these so you'll want to do everything you can to make yours stand out. If you already did a "Why Iowa?" in your PS, though, it may not be a good idea.

I think it's amazing that they put a whopping 50% of the applicant pool into the hold category. Realistically only around 15% are waitlisted or rejected, the other 35% are accepted.

Jwatson, where did you get the numbers you just mentioned? Can you (or someone else) explain in further detail? Thank you.

jrod wrote:Jwatson, where did you get the numbers you just mentioned? Can you (or someone else) explain in further detail? Thank you.

100% - 50% (The Hold guy's letter) + Iowa's acceptance rate = WL/Rej %?


Why is Iowa holding everybody is beyond me.

Jwatson wrote:

jrod wrote:Jwatson, where did you get the numbers you just mentioned? Can you (or someone else) explain in further detail? Thank you.

100% - 50% (The Hold guy's letter) + Iowa's acceptance rate = WL/Rej %?


Why is Iowa holding everybody is beyond me.

Surprising number of apps? Surprisingly high quality of apps? A lot of late apps? I certainly don't either, but this makes me wonder how I was accepted so quickly, if even at all.

crystalhawkeye wrote:

Jwatson wrote:

jrod wrote:Jwatson, where did you get the numbers you just mentioned? Can you (or someone else) explain in further detail? Thank you.

100% - 50% (The Hold guy's letter) + Iowa's acceptance rate = WL/Rej %?


Why is Iowa holding everybody is beyond me.

Surprising number of apps? Surprisingly high quality of apps? A lot of late apps? I certainly don't either, but this makes me wonder how I was accepted so quickly, if even at all.

I am guessing they hold 50% of the applicant pool every year and all of them will end up on the WL. My roommate applied to Iowa and she told me this. Iowa's applicant numbers I doubt will exceed 2,000 this year.

Everyone else get the ASD email? It sounds like parking is going to be horrible...

rainmaker614 wrote:Everyone else get the ASD email? It sounds like parking is going to be horrible...

Yeah, no kidding. I sent an e-mail asking about a parking pass. I may be able to get one, but they apparently can't give out enough for everyone. Why not? They're part of the school, aren't they? Wouldn't it make sense to have free parking for these guests they're trying to intice to enroll here??