IN at University of Iowa

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Lawguru
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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:51 am

New Madrid wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
New Madrid wrote:
Lawguru wrote:So you're saying I might as well go to UST?


I'm pretty sure UST's average starting salary is in the $50,000s. But, as rainmaker said, it's beside the point.

Given the Twin Cities as your possible future home, I'd say the factors you need to consider most are (1) the type of employment you seek and (2) your personal financial situation. Factor 1 may trump factor 2, particularly if you're interested in a prestige-heavy area such as biglaw, academia, etc. Also, if mobility is a concern, avoid UST.

I also am tempted by UST's offer, but I will most likely end up elsewhere. If I happened to be in a more precarious financial situation and I wanted to live and work in Minneapolis, then UST would be high on my list.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain....


I am 30k in the whole w/ stdent loans. That isn't too bad considering I'd pay residence tuition at Iowa is it?


Not bad at all.


HOLE* RESIDENT**

Anonymous0L

Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Anonymous0L » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:52 am

Lawguru wrote:
New Madrid wrote:
Lawguru wrote:So you're saying I might as well go to UST?


I'm pretty sure UST's average starting salary is in the $50,000s. But, as rainmaker said, it's beside the point.

Given the Twin Cities as your possible future home, I'd say the factors you need to consider most are (1) the type of employment you seek and (2) your personal financial situation. Factor 1 may trump factor 2, particularly if you're interested in a prestige-heavy area such as biglaw, academia, etc. Also, if mobility is a concern, avoid UST.

I also am tempted by UST's offer, but I will most likely end up elsewhere. If I happened to be in a more precarious financial situation and I wanted to live and work in Minneapolis, then UST would be high on my list.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain....


I am 30k in the whole w/ stdent loans. That isn't too bad considering I'd pay residence tuition at Iowa is it?



so whatever happened to wisconsin and minnesota?

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:59 am

Jwatson wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
New Madrid wrote:
Lawguru wrote:So you're saying I might as well go to UST?


I'm pretty sure UST's average starting salary is in the $50,000s. But, as rainmaker said, it's beside the point.

Given the Twin Cities as your possible future home, I'd say the factors you need to consider most are (1) the type of employment you seek and (2) your personal financial situation. Factor 1 may trump factor 2, particularly if you're interested in a prestige-heavy area such as biglaw, academia, etc. Also, if mobility is a concern, avoid UST.

I also am tempted by UST's offer, but I will most likely end up elsewhere. If I happened to be in a more precarious financial situation and I wanted to live and work in Minneapolis, then UST would be high on my list.

Just my opinion, take it with a grain....


I am 30k in the whole w/ stdent loans. That isn't too bad considering I'd pay residence tuition at Iowa is it?



so whatever happened to wisconsin and minnesota?


I have yet to hear from Minnesota and for the $$, Wisconsin is pointless since my GF can't work there. I just don't know if I'll get in to Minnesota. I DO have some VERY good softs. Thoughts on that?? Is a WL possible? I'm going to delete those numbers in a bit.
Last edited by Lawguru on Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous0L

Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Anonymous0L » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:01 am

Why did you apply to Natti and Case?

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:04 am

Jwatson wrote:Why did you apply to Natti and Case?

Fee waivers, and Case's Int'l law program. I'm in at case with a 20k/yr Int'l law scholly.

Answer question about U of Mn any one?

Anonymous0L

Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Anonymous0L » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:05 am

Lawguru wrote:
Jwatson wrote:Why did you apply to Natti and Case?

Fee waivers, and Case's Int'l law program. I'm in at case with a 20k/yr Int'l law scholly.

Answer question about U of Mn any one?


If you have very good softs you shouldn't have a problem getting in U of Mn, but that school is largely a LSAT based admissions school.

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coolkatz321
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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby coolkatz321 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:06 am

Lawguru wrote:
Jwatson wrote:Why did you apply to Natti and Case?

Fee waivers, and Case's Int'l law program. I'm in at case with a 20k/yr Int'l law scholly.

Answer question about U of Mn any one?


Did Cincinnati give you any money? I noticed on an earlier thread you said they gave you $16k/year, which I find hard to believe.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:08 am

coolkatz321 wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
Jwatson wrote:Why did you apply to Natti and Case?

Fee waivers, and Case's Int'l law program. I'm in at case with a 20k/yr Int'l law scholly.

Answer question about U of Mn any one?


Did Cincinnati give you any money? I noticed on an earlier thread you said they gave you $16k/year, which I find hard to believe.


no. Not 16 k a year. Pretty sure I said 8500. If I said 16k it was either a mistake or a complete lie.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:08 am

Thoughts on U of Mn though?

Anonymous0L

Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Anonymous0L » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:09 am

Lawguru wrote:Thoughts on U of Mn though?


RE: my previous post. Are you ever going to make up your mind? You've been asking this question for quiet a while now.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:11 am

coolkatz321 wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
Jwatson wrote:Why did you apply to Natti and Case?

Fee waivers, and Case's Int'l law program. I'm in at case with a 20k/yr Int'l law scholly.

Answer question about U of Mn any one?


Did Cincinnati give you any money? I noticed on an earlier thread you said they gave you $16k/year, which I find hard to believe.


I just checked on the nattie thread I said 8500 a year and then asked about a travel stipend. I never mentioned 16 k.

ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON ME and U of MN with my numbers? is it impossible?

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New Madrid
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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby New Madrid » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:12 am

Lawguru wrote:Thoughts on U of Mn though?


I was WL with numbers slightly higher than yours. I withdrew.

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coolkatz321
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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby coolkatz321 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:13 am

Lawguru wrote:
coolkatz321 wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
Jwatson wrote:Why did you apply to Natti and Case?

Fee waivers, and Case's Int'l law program. I'm in at case with a 20k/yr Int'l law scholly.

Answer question about U of Mn any one?


Did Cincinnati give you any money? I noticed on an earlier thread you said they gave you $16k/year, which I find hard to believe.


I just checked on the nattie thread I said 8500 a year and then asked about a travel stipend. I never mentioned 16 k.

ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON ME and U of MN with my numbers? is it impossible?


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62156&p=1313502#p1313502

Lawguru wrote:So...

I'm in at Iowa with no scholly, but rez tuition.

I've been given given a 16k a year scholly at Cincinnati, and a 20k a year at Case Western, as well as a Full ride to a tier 3.

I want to go to Iowa, but I need a little merit based aid. Any possibility I'd be able to negotiate some $??

If so, how do I go about doing this, I actually am not sure what the process is. Thanks.


Anyways, I'll drop it. I'm just happy Cincy gave me anything at all.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:18 am

Oh, OOPS! I did NOT mean that. I was IN CLASS while I typed that, so I'm not sure what the hell I meant. Thank you for making me feel like a mega jack ass. :mrgreen:

So any other thought on UMN. Is it a possibility?

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby NorseHawk » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:16 am

crystalhawkeye wrote:scott, as a current resident of Iowa, I'm sure you can attest to IC's greatness. I visited MSU today and I must say, I was rather underwhelmed. I was thinking it would be pretty happening, lots of options for stuff to do, etc., and it wasn't anything too special. Just a bunch of chain-restaurants and some book stores, not even very great ones! I'm not setting myself up for a similar disappointment with IC, am I? Convince me it'll be better!


It'll be better. Iowa City is awesome and always a really good time on the weekends. Tons of great bars, restaurants, etc. Without question one of the best college towns in the country. You should definitely take the opportunity to head down to the ped mall and take it all in while you're there.

It's really too bad you guys who haven't been before aren't getting to visit during football season too. Iowa City the day of a home game is, as far as I'm concerned, the greatest place on earth.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby rainmaker614 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:48 am

So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby scott82 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:37 am

NorseHawk wrote:
crystalhawkeye wrote:scott, as a current resident of Iowa, I'm sure you can attest to IC's greatness. I visited MSU today and I must say, I was rather underwhelmed. I was thinking it would be pretty happening, lots of options for stuff to do, etc., and it wasn't anything too special. Just a bunch of chain-restaurants and some book stores, not even very great ones! I'm not setting myself up for a similar disappointment with IC, am I? Convince me it'll be better!


It'll be better. Iowa City is awesome and always a really good time on the weekends. Tons of great bars, restaurants, etc. Without question one of the best college towns in the country. You should definitely take the opportunity to head down to the ped mall and take it all in while you're there.

It's really too bad you guys who haven't been before aren't getting to visit during football season too. Iowa City the day of a home game is, as far as I'm concerned, the greatest place on earth.


I've been to Columbia too. IC >> Columbia. I can't explain it, but when you have an hour or two free, just walk around the downtown area and check out all the stores/bars/restaurants. I've lived here three years and I still notice something new every time I'm down there.

This town is built around students, since the university is its lifeblood. The school and the town routinely bring in well known speakers; Michael Chabon, Dan Savage, Karl Rove, Jimmy Carter, and Rachel Corrie's parents have all been here in the last couple of years. John Yoo was here at the law school a couple weeks ago. At caucus time it seemed like some candidate (usually a democrat) was here every week, sometimes more. IC has, for better or worse, a very politically active community, so we're usually a focus for any pol trying to court the youth vote in Iowa. Dave Loebsack, the congressional rep for this district, has an office on the ped mall; I've met with him a couple times since I've been here to voice concerns on veterans issues.

Iowa obviously has no pro teams, so the Hawkeyes are pretty much regarded as the next best thing where football is concerned, since ISU had their 3rd losing year in a row this year. If you're into football, you won't be disappointed. If you're not... well, be prepared to navigate among legions of drunken fans on home game days if you venture downtown.

My favorite thing about this town is the way it clears out in the summer. It's like you were the only one to show up at Disneyland but they opened anyway.

Anyhow, you'll have to see for yourself. I think it's high on the list for QOL though.

Edit: as book stores go, check out Prairie Lights on Dubuque St downtown. It's a fixture in this town.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby hoosier1508 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:03 am

rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.


Average salary is not more meaningful than the median.

The average salary is going to be skewed by the students who get high paying big law jobs. Most students at Iowa don't get these jobs and therefore the average is going to be artificially high.

Also, I would not place a lot of reliance on these employment #'s coming from the schools and USNews. These #'s only include students whom actually provided their employment status. Typically the response rate hovers around 50%, so what the rest of the class is doing is largely unknown. In addition, all this data is self-reported, so it could be completely fabricated.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Lawguru » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:36 am

hoosier1508 wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.


Average salary is not more meaningful than the median.

The average salary is going to be skewed by the students who get high paying big law jobs. Most students at Iowa don't get these jobs and therefore the average is going to be artificially high.

Also, I would not place a lot of reliance on these employment #'s coming from the schools and USNews. These #'s only include students whom actually provided their employment status. Typically the response rate hovers around 50%, so what the rest of the class is doing is largely unknown. In addition, all this data is self-reported, so it could be completely fabricated.


The don't "Get" these jobs? That's a bunch of shit. Most Iowa students in the top half of their class can find a good big law job some place in the midwest in a good economic climate. 40 percent of Iowa grads CHOOSE to stay in state. How many big firms are there in Iowa? Answer: NOT MANY.

Especially for KC, MSP, St. Louis, and even Chi, Iowa places extremely well.

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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby rayiner » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:42 am

hoosier1508 wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.


Average salary is not more meaningful than the median.

The average salary is going to be skewed by the students who get high paying big law jobs. Most students at Iowa don't get these jobs and therefore the average is going to be artificially high.

Also, I would not place a lot of reliance on these employment #'s coming from the schools and USNews. These #'s only include students whom actually provided their employment status. Typically the response rate hovers around 50%, so what the rest of the class is doing is largely unknown. In addition, all this data is self-reported, so it could be completely fabricated.


For universities in Iowa's range, the response rate is typically 80%+. And yes, since the data is self-reported respondents could be completely fabricated, but why exactly would someone who got a $40k job out of Iowa report that they made $160k biglaw?

Remember, this is a T30 public university we're talking about, not some private Tier 4. They will try to spin the numbers the best way possible, but the costs of outright fabrication would be huge.

rainmaker614
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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby rainmaker614 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:23 pm

hoosier1508 wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.


Average salary is not more meaningful than the median.

The average salary is going to be skewed by the students who get high paying big law jobs. Most students at Iowa don't get these jobs and therefore the average is going to be artificially high.

Also, I would not place a lot of reliance on these employment #'s coming from the schools and USNews. These #'s only include students whom actually provided their employment status. Typically the response rate hovers around 50%, so what the rest of the class is doing is largely unknown. In addition, all this data is self-reported, so it could be completely fabricated.


I disagree and interpret the average differently. If anything it is skewed by the people that choose to stay in Iowa and thus is artificially low. Considering that 40% stay in state and 40% choose not to take law firm jobs, I'd say that's a high number and shows how the high salaries of people that choose to get mid-large firm jobs can offset those 40% numbers. That's saying something, in my opinion. These numbers are also not from the USNews, which are usually older and inconsistent with the data from the school and LSAC (from what I've seen). Those numbers are pulled right from Iowa's website. Also, I think the response rate is significantly over 50% (usually the lower tier schools are the ones with that response rate). I acknowledge the weaknesses of these statistics but I still think something positive is to be taken from them. If you look at the 'Iowa vs. ND" thread somewhere on here we talked about the amazing midwest firms that hire at Iowa and what their starting salaries are for Iowa grads. I have a spreadsheet that lists the 2L summer employment statistics from each of these firms and a few other pieces of great info. I also spoke with someone in Dubai (a legal market I WISH I could break into) and he told me that he's hired Iowa grads and he wouldn't hesitate to hire again, that's impressive considering that only certain schools in the T14 can break into an international market like that (GU, NU, UM, Cornell, HYS). The school definitely has a great reputation and gives grads the ability to place very well. Take a look at the distribution of alumni and you'll say they have significant representation in states like California (most peer school's don't), Florida, DC, NYC, etc, as well as a significant international presence. Too many people downplay Iowa's ability to place its grads into great positions.

Let me know if any of you want the spreadsheet that has a list of all the big law firms that hire at Iowa and what their starting salaries, 2L summer employment numbers are, etc.

Anonymous0L

Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Anonymous0L » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:24 pm

rainmaker614 wrote:
hoosier1508 wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.


Average salary is not more meaningful than the median.

The average salary is going to be skewed by the students who get high paying big law jobs. Most students at Iowa don't get these jobs and therefore the average is going to be artificially high.

Also, I would not place a lot of reliance on these employment #'s coming from the schools and USNews. These #'s only include students whom actually provided their employment status. Typically the response rate hovers around 50%, so what the rest of the class is doing is largely unknown. In addition, all this data is self-reported, so it could be completely fabricated.


I disagree and interpret the average differently. If anything it is skewed by the people that choose to stay in Iowa and thus is artificially low. Considering that 40% stay in state and 40% choose not to take law firm jobs, I'd say that's a high number and shows how the high salaries of people that choose to get mid-large firm jobs can offset those 40% numbers. That's saying something, in my opinion. These numbers are also not from the USNews, which are usually older and inconsistent with the data from the school and LSAC (from what I've seen). Those numbers are pulled right from Iowa's website. Also, I think the response rate is significantly over 50% (usually the lower tier schools are the ones with that response rate). I acknowledge the weaknesses of these statistics but I still think something positive is to be taken from them. If you look at the 'Iowa vs. ND" thread somewhere on here we talked about the amazing midwest firms that hire at Iowa and what their starting salaries are for Iowa grads. I have a spreadsheet that lists the 2L summer employment statistics from each of these firms and a few other pieces of great info. I also spoke with someone in Dubai (a legal market I WISH I could break into) and he told me that he's hired Iowa grads and he wouldn't hesitate to hire again, that's impressive considering that only certain schools in the T14 can break into an international market like that (GU, NU, UM, Cornell, HYS). The school definitely has a great reputation and gives grads the ability to place very well. Take a look at the distribution of alumni and you'll say they have significant representation in states like California (most peer school's don't), Florida, DC, NYC, etc, as well as a significant international presence. Too many people downplay Iowa's ability to place its grads into great positions.

Let me know if any of you want the spreadsheet that has a list of all the big law firms that hire at Iowa and what their starting salaries, 2L summer employment numbers are, etc.


Just because they "hire" at Iowa doesn't mean they will "hire" at Iowa. Take a look at all the vault firms, plenty of them go to schools' OCIs but they didn't end up hiring any from those schools.

Anonymous0L

Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Anonymous0L » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:30 pm

rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.



Median private sector salary is 75k.

most of whom accept job offers from private law firms and receive first-year salaries of $75,000 at the median.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/iowa-college-of-law.html

rainmaker614
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Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby rainmaker614 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:38 pm

Jwatson wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.



Median private sector salary is 75k.

most of whom accept job offers from private law firms and receive first-year salaries of $75,000 at the median.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/iowa-college-of-law.html


The TLS profiles are very, very outdated.

The average private sector salary is 90k: http://www.law.uiowa.edu/careers/stats- ... salary.php

Median is also different than average but either way those statistics on almost all the schools through TLS profiles are outdated.

Anonymous0L

Re: IN at University of Iowa

Postby Anonymous0L » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:38 pm

rainmaker614 wrote:
Jwatson wrote:
rainmaker614 wrote:So the average salary (a more meaningful statistic) is actually $90,000 for private practice. It is also worthy to note that the employment rate 9 months out has consistently been 99%.



Median private sector salary is 75k.

most of whom accept job offers from private law firms and receive first-year salaries of $75,000 at the median.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/iowa-college-of-law.html


The TLS profiles are very, very outdated.

The average private sector salary is 90k: http://www.law.uiowa.edu/careers/stats- ... salary.php

Median is also different than average but either way those statistics on almost all the schools through TLS profiles are outdated.


um ok and the link you gave me isn't?

Starting salary information varies greatly between the type of employment and the location of employment. Here are the averages for the Class of 2006.



Again MEDIAN>MEAN.




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