In at Miami!

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
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jewtangclan03
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby jewtangclan03 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:22 pm

Not quite as bad as citing their standing in the new Cooley rankings, but...

dreman510
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby dreman510 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:25 pm

jewtangclan03 wrote:Not quite as bad as citing their standing in the new Cooley rankings, but...

Well, if anything, it was the opposite of citing other rankings, as she was saying that all rankings are virtually useless, even one's that place Miami pretty hi. She didnt say "well look at the Dragon rankings, we're higher here, so we're a good school."

holmesNYC
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby holmesNYC » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:28 pm

project40 wrote:I was just talking to a coworker of mine about getting into Miami

He is a YLS grad and was telling me about the requirements for being accepted to the bar in Florida...

he pretty much said that to practice in Florida you pretty much need to be coming from a florida school and that that's why miami and florida and FSU place so well in the state of florida...

so take that for whatever its worth but I commented on how Miami was one of my safety schools and he was like well that aint too bad because a miami degree will get you pretty far if you want to start your career down there


This makes no sense.

http://www.floridabarexam.org/

Please tell me where it says you need to come from a Florida school or anything of the sort. Each bar exam has a state-specific portion and a multi-state portion. You need to study the state-specific information for each respective state in which you seek admittance. The school you attend does not affect this at all.

2009 Prospective
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby 2009 Prospective » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:34 pm

dreman510 wrote:
jewtangclan03 wrote:Not quite as bad as citing their standing in the new Cooley rankings, but...
, it was the opposite of citing other rankings, as she was saying that all rankings are virtually useless, even one's that place Miami pretty hi. She didnt say "well look at the Dragon rankings, we're higher here, so we're a good school."


Agree with Jewtang though it still seems like a veiled reference to being ranked higher by someone else's rankings masked by her point that rankings don't matter. Also as she states herself, she just comes off overly defensive to an unnecessary level which turns me off just a bit.

On another note, I was told one of their admissions officers that they have lower median scores than some other schools because they take a more "holistic" approach to admissions than most others. It seems to me that the ridiculous turnaround time they have on applications would hint that their process must be far more numbers driven than she led on.

Long story short, I'm just a bit skeptical of the claims they make (as one should be of any school). I certainly haven't ruled out attending but am just a little put off by all of this.

nvoight911
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby nvoight911 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:35 pm

MidwestJosh wrote:
nvoight911 wrote:Barring a few waitlists, it's looking more and more likely I'll be attending in the fall.


hey nick:

congrats! How did the rest of your trip go btw?


It was great. The rest of Miami and Toronto was pretty much an alcohol-induced blur lol I met a ton of really cool people at my hostels.

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project40
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby project40 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:38 pm

holmesNYC wrote:
This makes no sense.

http://www.floridabarexam.org/

Please tell me where it says you need to come from a Florida school or anything of the sort. Each bar exam has a state-specific portion and a multi-state portion. You need to study the state-specific information for each respective state in which you seek admittance. The school you attend does not affect this at all.



yeah i dunno i mean obviously you dont have to...

he was just saying its hard to go to florida and practice if you didnt go to a florida school...just sayin what he told me...

holmesNYC
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby holmesNYC » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:51 pm

project40 wrote:
holmesNYC wrote:
This makes no sense.

http://www.floridabarexam.org/

Please tell me where it says you need to come from a Florida school or anything of the sort. Each bar exam has a state-specific portion and a multi-state portion. You need to study the state-specific information for each respective state in which you seek admittance. The school you attend does not affect this at all.



yeah i dunno i mean obviously you dont have to...

he was just saying its hard to go to florida and practice if you didnt go to a florida school...just sayin what he told me...


I don't think this coworker of yours knows what he's talking about, and he's doing a great job at spreading misinformation. Maybe he's talking about the work required to study for additional bars? That's what's hard. I know people who've taken multiple bars. For each additional state, you have to study additional information. It's a lot of work, but it gives you options. But that goes for any state, not just FL.

For proof, you can just take a look at some lawyer profiles from any of the top FL firms and you will see people who've gone to school all over the country. I'm looking at Greenberg Traurig's Miami site right now and I'm seeing Harvard, Chicago, UVA, Catholic, Duke, NYU, etc. Lots of Miami grads, of course, but nothing near a monopoly.

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project40
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby project40 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:52 pm

holmesNYC wrote:
I don't think this coworker of yours knows what he's talking about, and he's doing a great job at spreading misinformation. Maybe he's talking about the work required to study for additional bars? That's what's hard. I know people who've taken multiple bars. For each additional state, you have to study additional information. It's a lot of work, but it gives you options. But that goes for any state, not just FL.

For proof, you can just take a look at some lawyer profiles from any of the top FL firms and you will see people who've gone to school all over the country. I'm looking at Greenberg Traurig's Miami site right now and I'm seeing Harvard, Chicago, UVA, Catholic, Duke, NYU, etc. Lots of Miami grads, of course, but nothing near a monopoly.



so then you're right...he's wrong..no biggy

holmesNYC
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby holmesNYC » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:27 pm

project40 wrote:so then you're right...he's wrong..no biggy


Well... it actually would be a big deal if people believed what you posted here and based decisions on that. It might also be a big deal if you yourself based your decision on this guy's statements without doing any of your own research to verify what he said. I'm no ambassador for UM, but the blatant untruth of his claim annoyed me.

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flhealth
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby flhealth » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:58 pm

jewtangclan03 wrote:
midrangejumper wrote:they have some points on there that confuse me, like this one : "The sense of community boasted by students at many U.S. law schools does not seem to be present at Miami Law, where grading is based on a curve."


Low curve= tough competition. Combine that w/ the rumor that many scholarship recipients are grouped in the same section, and you can guess why the camaraderie might be lacking.

The tone may be harsh, as it is for a few other similarly ranked schools. Just look at the employment statistics and decide for yourself if they're worth your price of admission.

when i went on my tour, the staff member who gave it said that most of the professors do not observe the curve...i dont know if this is true, but thats what she said

bigred87
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby bigred87 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:36 am

I got into Miami a few weeks ago, applied on around 12/19 or so... 161 LSAT/ 3.34 GPA from ivy league school. Also, 23,000k a year scholarship, but after reading this board, I'm becoming more and more skeptical.

I like Miami, from what I've seen, though I still plan on visiting if I were to choose to go there, never been to miami before, and would really want to check out the campus.

Still have yet to hear from all my other schools...where has everyone else applied?

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Pizon
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby Pizon » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:58 am

holmesNYC wrote:
project40 wrote:I was just talking to a coworker of mine about getting into Miami

He is a YLS grad and was telling me about the requirements for being accepted to the bar in Florida...

he pretty much said that to practice in Florida you pretty much need to be coming from a florida school and that that's why miami and florida and FSU place so well in the state of florida...

so take that for whatever its worth but I commented on how Miami was one of my safety schools and he was like well that aint too bad because a miami degree will get you pretty far if you want to start your career down there


This makes no sense.

http://www.floridabarexam.org/

Please tell me where it says you need to come from a Florida school or anything of the sort. Each bar exam has a state-specific portion and a multi-state portion. You need to study the state-specific information for each respective state in which you seek admittance. The school you attend does not affect this at all.


I know someone who went to Vermont Law School who took the bar in Florida. She definitely doesn't "come from" Florida.

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project40
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby project40 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:09 pm

? for the people that got scholarship offers...

too busy at work to read through the thread...

did the offer come in our acceptance package or after?

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kbigs
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby kbigs » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:10 pm

project40 wrote:? for the people that got scholarship offers...

too busy at work to read through the thread...

did the offer come in our acceptance package or after?


in the mail, shortly after the acceptance. at least for me, and what I gather from other peeps.

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project40
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby project40 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:14 pm

kbigs wrote:in the mail, shortly after the acceptance. at least for me, and what I gather from other peeps.

ok...i got the online acceptance a few days ago

got a formal acceptance in the mail today and there is no mention of $

does that mean i didnt get an offer?

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kbigs
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby kbigs » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:15 pm

not necessarily. wait a few days to a week. you still could get it.

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project40
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby project40 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:17 pm

kbigs wrote:not necessarily. wait a few days to a week. you still could get it.


yeah i hope so i'm not expecting a full ride or anything but mad people with lower #'s then me are reporting offers

so i hope i get atleast some, i really like the idea of miami :D

holmesNYC
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby holmesNYC » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:29 pm

I asked this the other day but received no answer so I'm trying again: We've so far gathered that the scholarship letter comes after the acceptance letter. But did the people who did not get scholarship offers receive any type of informational packet from the financial aid office? Anyone? Thanks.

VAGATOR
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby VAGATOR » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:04 pm

nvoight911 wrote:Below is Therese's response:

Sorry for my delayed response. I have been out of the office on recruiting trips and been swamped. In any event, I have no idea why the author of this commentary has twisted the facts so negatively. I believe this unfairly portrays Miami Law and what we have to offer our students and graduates.



96.2% of our 2007 graduates were employed (93%) or enrolled in graduate studies (2.5%) within 9 months of graduation. The majority of our students work in private practice, with about ¼ of those in large firms and ¾ in small and medium firms. One of the primary reasons that our at-graduation employment rate is not higher is because many of our graduates accept jobs with government employers (a little over 10% of the class) and smaller law firms (28% of the class) which do not extend offers until after bar results are received. Therefore a substantial segment of our students are listed as unemployed at graduation. It is true that more graduates than not practice in Florida or in the SE, but in most cases this is by choice and not because the reputation of Miami does not carry over to other regions.



To get a better sense of some of the jobs held by our students and alumni, I encourage you to review the Student (--LinkRemoved--) and alumni (--LinkRemoved--) spotlight pages. FYI, the Student Spotlight page will be updated soon to include a sampling of summer 2008 experiences.

While I am not a fan of rankings - I feel they tend to leave out much of what is relevant in discerning the numbers - it is inevitable that they be used. But consider this: if you found out that you were relying on easily manipulated data or an obscure sampling of data that may be irrelevant to the outcome for a major investment decision, would you still invest in the same fashion? Probably not. If prospective students are going to pander to the rankings, let’s consider Miami’s #18 ranking in Law Dragon (--LinkRemoved--) . Is this relevant? Probably no less relevant than USN&WR. Should you want to get an idea of why USN&WR is such a sore point with many law schools, I suggest you read Brian Leiter’s March 31, 2008 open letter to Bob Morse of USN&WR (--LinkRemoved-- ... index.html) . Further, you can find an enlightening article in the Southern Methodist University Law Review, Spring 2007 written by Theodore P. Seto called UNDERSTANDING THE U.S. NEWS LAW SCHOOL RANKINGS.



Getting back to Miami Law and jobs prospects, let me assure you that students and graduates are not alone in the job search. We have eight attorneys working in our Career Development Office (see --LinkRemoved-- - a staff that I don’t believe can be matched by many other law schools. These advisors are here to assist our students and graduates in figuring out when, where and how to look for the jobs they want. The CDO sponsors on and off-campus interviewing programs regionally and nationally, hosts guest speakers and networking opportunities, actively seeks job opportunities for our students by visiting firms, judges and other legal employers to promote the school, and works with students and alumni on an individual basis, etc. The resources are here for students to utilize. Additionally, our faculty and alumni regionally and nationally strongly support our students and graduates. If you want to connect with Miami alums wherever they may be (DC, LA, Atlanta, Chicago, NYC, Seattle, Boston, Miami…), just let me know.



As the author mentions, our bar passage rate in Florida is strong (July 2008 Miami was highest in the state at 92.4% vs. the state average of 82.5%) . Further, our graduates who take bars in other states have consistently done as well as or better than the state average.



Miami is a large school* and in order to fill our class, the acceptance rate is high. We don't have the application cluster effect that schools in areas like DC or Boston might have as an advantage as far as the number of applications; e.g., if someone wants to be go to law school in DC, they're likely to apply to all, if not most, of the law schools in DC. The applied to acceptance rate is, unfortunately, a fairly large factor in the rankings. The author compares Miami to the University of Hawaii of the same ranking, which is much smaller than Miami, and as stated on the School’s website, the “only ABA-accredited law school in the Pacific-Asia region.” The bottom line is that Miami has a great applicant pool from which to choose and provides a highly accomplished entering class. Our students have strong credentials and many other characteristics and skills that make the classroom and overall student body dynamic and exciting. Students’ intellect, knowledge, backgrounds and experiences drive much of the discussion in and outside of class enriching the life at Miami Law beyond measure. Providing a student body without this mix would be a disservice to all concerned. Further, the interests of the student body are reflected in the 40 or so student organizations, law reviews and community projects that take place here on a daily basis.



The author mentions the high student to faculty ratio and I must agree that this number has been soft in the recent past. Over a year ago, the Law School started focusing on this issue and has recently hired 3 additional faculty members with plans to hire more in the next year or two.



The author writes that “…there are complaints about the quality of teachers and the out-dated status of many programs at the school.” I am truly surprised to read such a comment. I constantly hear otherwise from both current students and alumni who feel they have received a superb legal education from excellent professors. Outdated programs? Again, this is not the case. If the author wants to give specifics, I could address them. Every school, no matter the ranking, is going to have some disgruntled students or alumni; however to characterize Miami’s students, professors and programs in such sweeping statements without clarification is unjustified.



Miami does have palm trees and great weather, but I assure you, Miami Law offers a great deal more, including a strong academic program and job prospects regionally, nationally, and internationally.



Perhaps you find my discourse above defensive in nature. Since I am constantly asked about and judged by our ranking, I readily admit that I am discouraged by how much weight prospective students (and seemingly parents) put on the USN&WR ranking. Even Bob Morse, the person behind USN&World Report, states that the rankings are given too much weight (see question 28 in our 29 Critical Questions brochure at --LinkRemoved--.) As far as blogs, don’t get me started!



Good luck in the application and decision making process.



*Miami’s 2007 entering class was unusually large (489). The 2008 entering class was considerably smaller (379). Our target class is between 375 and 400.


Was the rumor about sections being stacked with scholarship students ever addressed?

nvoight911
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:40 pm

Re: In at Miami!

Postby nvoight911 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:09 pm

VAGATOR wrote:
nvoight911 wrote:Below is Therese's response:

Sorry for my delayed response. I have been out of the office on recruiting trips and been swamped. In any event, I have no idea why the author of this commentary has twisted the facts so negatively. I believe this unfairly portrays Miami Law and what we have to offer our students and graduates.



96.2% of our 2007 graduates were employed (93%) or enrolled in graduate studies (2.5%) within 9 months of graduation. The majority of our students work in private practice, with about ¼ of those in large firms and ¾ in small and medium firms. One of the primary reasons that our at-graduation employment rate is not higher is because many of our graduates accept jobs with government employers (a little over 10% of the class) and smaller law firms (28% of the class) which do not extend offers until after bar results are received. Therefore a substantial segment of our students are listed as unemployed at graduation. It is true that more graduates than not practice in Florida or in the SE, but in most cases this is by choice and not because the reputation of Miami does not carry over to other regions.



To get a better sense of some of the jobs held by our students and alumni, I encourage you to review the Student (--LinkRemoved--) and alumni (--LinkRemoved--) spotlight pages. FYI, the Student Spotlight page will be updated soon to include a sampling of summer 2008 experiences.

While I am not a fan of rankings - I feel they tend to leave out much of what is relevant in discerning the numbers - it is inevitable that they be used. But consider this: if you found out that you were relying on easily manipulated data or an obscure sampling of data that may be irrelevant to the outcome for a major investment decision, would you still invest in the same fashion? Probably not. If prospective students are going to pander to the rankings, let’s consider Miami’s #18 ranking in Law Dragon (--LinkRemoved--) . Is this relevant? Probably no less relevant than USN&WR. Should you want to get an idea of why USN&WR is such a sore point with many law schools, I suggest you read Brian Leiter’s March 31, 2008 open letter to Bob Morse of USN&WR (--LinkRemoved-- ... index.html) . Further, you can find an enlightening article in the Southern Methodist University Law Review, Spring 2007 written by Theodore P. Seto called UNDERSTANDING THE U.S. NEWS LAW SCHOOL RANKINGS.



Getting back to Miami Law and jobs prospects, let me assure you that students and graduates are not alone in the job search. We have eight attorneys working in our Career Development Office (see --LinkRemoved-- - a staff that I don’t believe can be matched by many other law schools. These advisors are here to assist our students and graduates in figuring out when, where and how to look for the jobs they want. The CDO sponsors on and off-campus interviewing programs regionally and nationally, hosts guest speakers and networking opportunities, actively seeks job opportunities for our students by visiting firms, judges and other legal employers to promote the school, and works with students and alumni on an individual basis, etc. The resources are here for students to utilize. Additionally, our faculty and alumni regionally and nationally strongly support our students and graduates. If you want to connect with Miami alums wherever they may be (DC, LA, Atlanta, Chicago, NYC, Seattle, Boston, Miami…), just let me know.



As the author mentions, our bar passage rate in Florida is strong (July 2008 Miami was highest in the state at 92.4% vs. the state average of 82.5%) . Further, our graduates who take bars in other states have consistently done as well as or better than the state average.



Miami is a large school* and in order to fill our class, the acceptance rate is high. We don't have the application cluster effect that schools in areas like DC or Boston might have as an advantage as far as the number of applications; e.g., if someone wants to be go to law school in DC, they're likely to apply to all, if not most, of the law schools in DC. The applied to acceptance rate is, unfortunately, a fairly large factor in the rankings. The author compares Miami to the University of Hawaii of the same ranking, which is much smaller than Miami, and as stated on the School’s website, the “only ABA-accredited law school in the Pacific-Asia region.” The bottom line is that Miami has a great applicant pool from which to choose and provides a highly accomplished entering class. Our students have strong credentials and many other characteristics and skills that make the classroom and overall student body dynamic and exciting. Students’ intellect, knowledge, backgrounds and experiences drive much of the discussion in and outside of class enriching the life at Miami Law beyond measure. Providing a student body without this mix would be a disservice to all concerned. Further, the interests of the student body are reflected in the 40 or so student organizations, law reviews and community projects that take place here on a daily basis.



The author mentions the high student to faculty ratio and I must agree that this number has been soft in the recent past. Over a year ago, the Law School started focusing on this issue and has recently hired 3 additional faculty members with plans to hire more in the next year or two.



The author writes that “…there are complaints about the quality of teachers and the out-dated status of many programs at the school.” I am truly surprised to read such a comment. I constantly hear otherwise from both current students and alumni who feel they have received a superb legal education from excellent professors. Outdated programs? Again, this is not the case. If the author wants to give specifics, I could address them. Every school, no matter the ranking, is going to have some disgruntled students or alumni; however to characterize Miami’s students, professors and programs in such sweeping statements without clarification is unjustified.



Miami does have palm trees and great weather, but I assure you, Miami Law offers a great deal more, including a strong academic program and job prospects regionally, nationally, and internationally.



Perhaps you find my discourse above defensive in nature. Since I am constantly asked about and judged by our ranking, I readily admit that I am discouraged by how much weight prospective students (and seemingly parents) put on the USN&WR ranking. Even Bob Morse, the person behind USN&World Report, states that the rankings are given too much weight (see question 28 in our 29 Critical Questions brochure at --LinkRemoved--.) As far as blogs, don’t get me started!



Good luck in the application and decision making process.



*Miami’s 2007 entering class was unusually large (489). The 2008 entering class was considerably smaller (379). Our target class is between 375 and 400.


Was the rumor about sections being stacked with scholarship students ever addressed?


No

VAGATOR
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:18 pm

Re: In at Miami!

Postby VAGATOR » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:14 pm

nvoight911 wrote:
Was the rumor about sections being stacked with scholarship students ever addressed?


No[/quote]

Thanks for the quick response. I'm going to point ask the question at the admitted students day. If I don't like the response, I'm probably heading to UF or FSU, even with the scholarship offer.

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Rocky Estoppel
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby Rocky Estoppel » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:16 pm

VAGATOR wrote:
nvoight911 wrote:
Was the rumor about sections being stacked with scholarship students ever addressed?


No


Thanks for the quick response. I'm going to point ask the question at the admitted students day. If I don't like the response, I'm probably heading to UF or FSU, even with the scholarship offer.



I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to ASD. Let us know what they say about this. I'd be really interested to hear what they have to say.

geoanthem
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:32 am

Re: In at Miami!

Postby geoanthem » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:17 pm

kak23 wrote:
VAGATOR wrote:
nvoight911 wrote:
Was the rumor about sections being stacked with scholarship students ever addressed?


No


Thanks for the quick response. I'm going to point ask the question at the admitted students day. If I don't like the response, I'm probably heading to UF or FSU, even with the scholarship offer.



I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to ASD. Let us know what they say about this. I'd be really interested to hear what they have to say.


Same, let us know.

VAGATOR
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:18 pm

Re: In at Miami!

Postby VAGATOR » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:25 pm

kak23 wrote:
VAGATOR wrote:
nvoight911 wrote:
Was the rumor about sections being stacked with scholarship students ever addressed?


No


Thanks for the quick response. I'm going to point ask the question at the admitted students day. If I don't like the response, I'm probably heading to UF or FSU, even with the scholarship offer.



I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to ASD. Let us know what they say about this. I'd be really interested to hear what they have to say.


No problem. I can fly into Ft. Lauderdale pretty cheaply from Virginia, so I am going to check Miami out before I make a decision. One of the main questions I have academic wise is the potential stacking of sections with scholarship students. Of course I plan on doing well in law school, but I will not put myself into a position like that, which would be pretty much the same as playing against a stacked deck.

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kbigs
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Re: In at Miami!

Postby kbigs » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:26 pm

geoanthem wrote:
kak23 wrote:
VAGATOR wrote:
nvoight911 wrote:
Was the rumor about sections being stacked with scholarship students ever addressed?


No


Thanks for the quick response. I'm going to point ask the question at the admitted students day. If I don't like the response, I'm probably heading to UF or FSU, even with the scholarship offer.



I don't think I'm going to be able to make it to ASD. Let us know what they say about this. I'd be really interested to hear what they have to say.


Same, let us know.


I scheduled a campus visit for next friday, so I'll ask them about that.




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