Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018) Forum

[dm1683]

At this point if I don't get JS2 I am just withdrawing my apps and working for a year or two at a bank or something before reapplying. Between being waitlisted at Chi and not in the first round of acceptances at Mich it's pretty clear that K-JD is not a viable route for the T-14 anymore, at least for me.

[appind]

Only a portion of those interviewees were sent on to faculty review, and the faculty review process is likely more straightforward than the adcom review process..

I was under the impression that all JS1s go onto faculty review

You're right according to this 2014 post:

http://hls.harvard.edu/inside-the-black ... s-process/

File checking and distribution --> admissions staff read --> JS1 --> faculty read --> final decision

I think the link is ambiguous about whether they send all interviewees to fr

We only send files off to faculty for review after the interview stage so that they can see all of the information about you, including our interview notes.

[etramak]

Only a portion of those interviewees were sent on to faculty review, and the faculty review process is likely more straightforward than the adcom review process..

I was under the impression that all JS1s go onto faculty review

You're right according to this 2014 post:

http://hls.harvard.edu/inside-the-black ... s-process/

File checking and distribution --> admissions staff read --> JS1 --> faculty read --> final decision

I think the link is ambiguous about whether they send all interviewees to fr

We only send files off to faculty for review after the interview stage so that they can see all of the information about you, including our interview notes.

My assumption is that, if they don't send all off to faculty review, your interview would have to go extremely poorly to be in the reject pile. I also assume that if your file didn't get sent to faculty after JS1 you will be in the first ding wave that is (again, I assume) Monday the 29th or some time around then.

They only bother interviewing people who they find interesting or have the right numbers. It wouldn't make sense to hold off on faculty review unless you acted like a complete idiot during the JS1

[pancakes4ever]

Only a portion of those interviewees were sent on to faculty review, and the faculty review process is likely more straightforward than the adcom review process..

I was under the impression that all JS1s go onto faculty review

You're right according to this 2014 post:

http://hls.harvard.edu/inside-the-black ... s-process/

File checking and distribution --> admissions staff read --> JS1 --> faculty read --> final decision

I think the link is ambiguous about whether they send all interviewees to fr

We only send files off to faculty for review after the interview stage so that they can see all of the information about you, including our interview notes.

Ok, I get you. I guess not all interviewees go to faculty review, but all admits have been reviewed by faculty: "No offer of admission is ever made to HLS without a faculty member signing off. The faculty read helps us to be confident that if you are admitted, you can thrive here"

I'm having flashbacks to logical reasoning drills right now lol

[Slippin' Jimmy]

At this point if I don't get JS2 I am just withdrawing my apps and working for a year or two at a bank or something before reapplying. Between being waitlisted at Chi and not in the first round of acceptances at Mich it's pretty clear that K-JD is not a viable route for the T-14 anymore, at least for me.

I've experienced T14 abnormalities this cycle related to being KJD as well. Duke really stressed my KJD status in my scholarship interview and I think it also had something to do with my rejection from cornell and the silence I've gotten from Michigan. While these might have been for other reasons, I think me being KJD really has something to do with it. Only T14 that didn't seem to care at all was UVA, but then again I haven't gotten a scholarship offer yet (which I keep telling myself isn't unusual).

I'm still set on going next year, and if I don't get a good scholly offer from lower T14 or get into HLS I'll probably just go to WUSTL for free, which is still a good option for my goals.

[jkander31]

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[jkander31]

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[jkander31]

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[jkander31]

How many waves of JS2's can we expect in total?

[principalagent]

How many waves of JS2's can we expect in total?

5 I think?

[jkander31]

How many waves of JS2's can we expect in total?

5 I think?

Oh wow, 5 JS2 waves. That's interesting. Sorry for the multiple posts my phone spazzed out.

[appind]

Only a portion of those interviewees were sent on to faculty review, and the faculty review process is likely more straightforward than the adcom review process..

I was under the impression that all JS1s go onto faculty review

You're right according to this 2014 post:

http://hls.harvard.edu/inside-the-black ... s-process/

File checking and distribution --> admissions staff read --> JS1 --> faculty read --> final decision

I think the link is ambiguous about whether they send all interviewees to fr

We only send files off to faculty for review after the interview stage so that they can see all of the information about you, including our interview notes.

Ok, I get you. I guess not all interviewees go to faculty review, but all admits have been reviewed by faculty: "No offer of admission is ever made to HLS without a faculty member signing off. The faculty read helps us to be confident that if you are admitted, you can thrive here"

I'm having flashbacks to logical reasoning drills right now lol

you are probably right about how many make it from js1 to fr. I think the fr part of the process is more tricky than how it's normally seen. i speculate faculty cannot solely go by numbers when signing off due to wide range of numbers of those admitted at the extremes.

[tortsilllustrated]

Can we ask Spivey about the FR?

[etramak]

Can we ask Spivey about the FR?

He probably wouldn't comment publicly on an individual schools' processes.

[appind]

Can we ask Spivey about the FR?

He probably wouldn't comment publicly on an individual schools' processes.

I am not sure if that's the case as I've seen some stuff about gre on his blog when only hls was considering it.

[principalagent]

Can we ask Spivey about the FR?

He probably wouldn't comment publicly on an individual schools' processes.

I am not sure if that's the case as I've seen some stuff about gre on his blog when only hls was considering it.

To be fair ASU technically moved to the GRE first, and there was no way others weren't going to follow HLS's lead. That was never going to be an "individual process", and in a way, wasn't when he discussed it after Harvard moved in that direction.

Something specific like faculty review wouldn't be divulged outside of a high level.

[aegor]

My application went complete at the end of November. Is it abnormal that I have heard nothing?

[TheKingLives]

My application went complete at the end of November. Is it abnormal that I have heard nothing?

I went complete 11/22 and haven't heard anything myself, so you're not alone, but some who went complete at the end of November have gotten JS1s.

[naguib]

Loving this, *wipes away snot and tears*

We don't need to give up for a while. Seems like there will still be around 10 more JS1 waves this cycle. I think the reason they haven't sent mine yet is that they're busy devising a brand new full ride scholarship to give me.

Is there data on when the JS1s go out for when people went complete?

[appind]

is the % of js1s who get js2 higher for above-median numbers js1s than others?

[tortsilllustrated]

is the % of js1s who get js2 higher for above-median numbers js1s than others?

I think that’s a given

[2021hopeful]

hi late check-in! Short term lurker.

172/GPA>50/KJD
No JS1. Went complete in Oct.

Noticed others in somewhat similar situations stressing out, so I thought Id tell you you're not alone! I've had no luck with CC either though, so maybe theres just something catastrophically wrong with my app.

[InterLaw]

At this point if I don't get JS2 I am just withdrawing my apps and working for a year or two at a bank or something before reapplying. Between being waitlisted at Chi and not in the first round of acceptances at Mich it's pretty clear that K-JD is not a viable route for the T-14 anymore, at least for me.

I've experienced T14 abnormalities this cycle related to being KJD as well. Duke really stressed my KJD status in my scholarship interview and I think it also had something to do with my rejection from cornell and the silence I've gotten from Michigan. While these might have been for other reasons, I think me being KJD really has something to do with it. Only T14 that didn't seem to care at all was UVA, but then again I haven't gotten a scholarship offer yet (which I keep telling myself isn't unusual).

I'm still set on going next year, and if I don't get a good scholly offer from lower T14 or get into HLS I'll probably just go to WUSTL for free, which is still a good option for my goals.

I just wanted to add my experience regarding a couple of schools you mentioned, considering that I'm a K-JD myself. My total WE is of about 5 months of internship and I'm now enrolled in a graduate program (graduated from undergrad last April). Surely, the international status changes at least something in the decision process, even tho many internationals have considerable WE (according to our spreadsheet here on TLS we are K-JDs out of 13). Stats are 172/S, so pretty much same LSAT as yours but not even close to your stellar GPA!
I was among the first acceptances at Michigan and Cornell, and I got money from both, and in as well at GULC (if you include it in t14s). On the other hand, not a single word from UVA and Duke since mid sept, where Jimmy had the fastest turnaround possible! Nothing from UPenn as well, where you dm were accepted. Finally, same outcome as Jimmy at UCLA (waitlist, maybe YP or maybe not) and WUSTL (almost, I got no stipend ). Still absolutely nothing from H/S/Columbia/NYU.
So...
1) We are in the middle of the cycle, let's try to keep the stress down and see how it goes. Thinking about reapplying now makes no sense, let's talk about this in a couple of months in case one actually underperformed the cycle;
2) The K-JD status might explain some outcome but there is no clear pattern in it! I am 100% sure that having 2 years of WE would be so much better for everyone, but we cannot assume for example that Michigan doesn't take k-jd while UVA does. I couldn't believe it when I heard that Jimmy was dinged from Cornell, but he actually was in a very good company (wtf are they doing btw?). I thought dm was a great candidate for Chicago but hey, they are #4... Nobody has more than say 50/60% chances to get in no matter what, especially in a super competitive cycle!
3) T6 just started admitting people and there are still 10ish waves of JS1 to be released from Harvard. Do not give up until the cycle is over. There are so many reasons why someone can get into one school and not into another, all things being equal! Who the hell knows what's going on inside admission offices? (ed. Spivey does)
4) Finally, this is a super competitive cycle, and a very logical explanation for the feeling of underperforming your/our numbers (I still heard back from only 6 schools out of the 16 I applied to between Sept and Oct) is that having such an increase in candidates - with a proportional increase in good/great candidates - brings us K-JD out of the first waves of acceptances, no matter what the numbers are. If the amount of candidates with good numbers AND WE increased, well that's logical. Again, too early to call the cycle over! Never give up, never surrender!

Always rooting for you, you guys rock!
Yours, IL.

[thsauddl]

Checking in! LSAT <25ths, had my JS1 in December. Non URM. I highly doubt I will get a JS2 given that my lsat is so low

[Slippin' Jimmy]

At this point if I don't get JS2 I am just withdrawing my apps and working for a year or two at a bank or something before reapplying. Between being waitlisted at Chi and not in the first round of acceptances at Mich it's pretty clear that K-JD is not a viable route for the T-14 anymore, at least for me.

I've experienced T14 abnormalities this cycle related to being KJD as well. Duke really stressed my KJD status in my scholarship interview and I think it also had something to do with my rejection from cornell and the silence I've gotten from Michigan. While these might have been for other reasons, I think me being KJD really has something to do with it. Only T14 that didn't seem to care at all was UVA, but then again I haven't gotten a scholarship offer yet (which I keep telling myself isn't unusual).

I'm still set on going next year, and if I don't get a good scholly offer from lower T14 or get into HLS I'll probably just go to WUSTL for free, which is still a good option for my goals.

I just wanted to add my experience regarding a couple of schools you mentioned, considering that I'm a K-JD myself. My total WE is of about 5 months of internship and I'm now enrolled in a graduate program (graduated from undergrad last April). Surely, the international status changes at least something in the decision process, even tho many internationals have considerable WE (according to our spreadsheet here on TLS we are K-JDs out of 13). Stats are 172/S, so pretty much same LSAT as yours but not even close to your stellar GPA!
I was among the first acceptances at Michigan and Cornell, and I got money from both, and in as well at GULC (if you include it in t14s). On the other hand, not a single word from UVA and Duke since mid sept, where Jimmy had the fastest turnaround possible! Nothing from UPenn as well, where you dm were accepted. Finally, same outcome as Jimmy at UCLA (waitlist, maybe YP or maybe not) and WUSTL (almost, I got no stipend ). Still absolutely nothing from H/S/Columbia/NYU.
So...
1) We are in the middle of the cycle, let's try to keep the stress down and see how it goes. Thinking about reapplying now makes no sense, let's talk about this in a couple of months in case one actually underperformed the cycle;
2) The K-JD status might explain some outcome but there is no clear pattern in it! I am 100% sure that having 2 years of WE would be so much better for everyone, but we cannot assume for example that Michigan doesn't take k-jd while UVA does. I couldn't believe it when I heard that Jimmy was dinged from Cornell, but he actually was in a very good company (wtf are they doing btw?). I thought dm was a great candidate for Chicago but hey, they are #4... Nobody has more than say 50/60% chances to get in no matter what, especially in a super competitive cycle!
3) T6 just started admitting people and there are still 10ish waves of JS1 to be released from Harvard. Do not give up until the cycle is over. There are so many reasons why someone can get into one school and not into another, all things being equal! Who the hell knows what's going on inside admission offices? (ed. Spivey does)
4) Finally, this is a super competitive cycle, and a very logical explanation for the feeling of underperforming your/our numbers (I still heard back from only 6 schools out of the 16 I applied to between Sept and Oct) is that having such an increase in candidates - with a proportional increase in good/great candidates - brings us K-JD out of the first waves of acceptances, no matter what the numbers are. If the amount of candidates with good numbers AND WE increased, well that's logical. Again, too early to call the cycle over! Never give up, never surrender!

Always rooting for you, you guys rock!
Yours, IL.

Excellent post! You're 100% right, its still early in the cycle and plenty of people have gotten into schools with $$$ extremely late (looking at you Chargers). KJD is only one theory for why some of my outcomes have gone the way they did, others include not showing enough interest, adcoms not liking my PS, my undergrad is a TTT where the median LSAT is a 143.

I'm not giving up on other schools but I would be perfectly happy going to one of the schools I'm already admitted to. Everything after that is a bonus.