Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018) Forum

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
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JS2s are upon us! What would you take over HLS? Anything?

HLS or bust, fam
93
19%
SLS/YLS
134
27%
T6 Full Tuition Scholly
122
25%
T6 w/ Money (< full)
39
8%
T6 Sticker
12
2%
T14 Full Tuition Scholly
60
12%
T14 w/ Money (< full)
21
4%
T14 Sticker
10
2%
 
Total votes: 491

jkander31

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by jkander31 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
InterLaw wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:
dm1683 wrote:At this point if I don't get JS2 I am just withdrawing my apps and working for a year or two at a bank or something before reapplying. Between being waitlisted at Chi and not in the first round of acceptances at Mich it's pretty clear that K-JD is not a viable route for the T-14 anymore, at least for me.
I've experienced T14 abnormalities this cycle related to being KJD as well. Duke really stressed my KJD status in my scholarship interview and I think it also had something to do with my rejection from cornell and the silence I've gotten from Michigan. While these might have been for other reasons, I think me being KJD really has something to do with it. Only T14 that didn't seem to care at all was UVA, but then again I haven't gotten a scholarship offer yet (which I keep telling myself isn't unusual).

I'm still set on going next year, and if I don't get a good scholly offer from lower T14 or get into HLS I'll probably just go to WUSTL for free, which is still a good option for my goals.
I just wanted to add my experience regarding a couple of schools you mentioned, considering that I'm a K-JD myself. My total WE is of about 5 months of internship and I'm now enrolled in a graduate program (graduated from undergrad last April). Surely, the international status changes at least something in the decision process, even tho many internationals have considerable WE (according to our spreadsheet here on TLS we are K-JDs out of 13). Stats are 172/S, so pretty much same LSAT as yours but not even close to your stellar GPA!
I was among the first acceptances at Michigan and Cornell, and I got money from both, and in as well at GULC (if you include it in t14s). On the other hand, not a single word from UVA and Duke since mid sept, where Jimmy had the fastest turnaround possible! Nothing from UPenn as well, where you dm were accepted. Finally, same outcome as Jimmy at UCLA (waitlist, maybe YP or maybe not) and WUSTL (almost, I got no stipend :( ). Still absolutely nothing from H/S/Columbia/NYU.
So...
1) We are in the middle of the cycle, let's try to keep the stress down and see how it goes. Thinking about reapplying now makes no sense, let's talk about this in a couple of months in case one actually underperformed the cycle;
2) The K-JD status might explain some outcome but there is no clear pattern in it! I am 100% sure that having 2 years of WE would be so much better for everyone, but we cannot assume for example that Michigan doesn't take k-jd while UVA does. I couldn't believe it when I heard that Jimmy was dinged from Cornell, but he actually was in a very good company (wtf are they doing btw?). I thought dm was a great candidate for Chicago but hey, they are #4... Nobody has more than say 50/60% chances to get in no matter what, especially in a super competitive cycle!
3) T6 just started admitting people and there are still 10ish waves of JS1 to be released from Harvard. Do not give up until the cycle is over. There are so many reasons why someone can get into one school and not into another, all things being equal! Who the hell knows what's going on inside admission offices? (ed. Spivey does)
4) Finally, this is a super competitive cycle, and a very logical explanation for the feeling of underperforming your/our numbers (I still heard back from only 6 schools out of the 16 I applied to between Sept and Oct) is that having such an increase in candidates - with a proportional increase in good/great candidates - brings us K-JD out of the first waves of acceptances, no matter what the numbers are. If the amount of candidates with good numbers AND WE increased, well that's logical. Again, too early to call the cycle over! Never give up, never surrender!

Always rooting for you, you guys rock!
Yours, IL.
Excellent post! You're 100% right, its still early in the cycle and plenty of people have gotten into schools with $$$ extremely late (looking at you Chargers). KJD is only one theory for why some of my outcomes have gone the way they did, others include not showing enough interest, adcoms not liking my PS, my undergrad is a TTT where the median LSAT is a 143.

I'm not giving up on other schools but I would be perfectly happy going to one of the schools I'm already admitted to. Everything after that is a bonus.
Is it still considered K-JD if I had to work full-time to get myself through college?

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appind

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by appind » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:07 pm

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Last edited by appind on Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

icechicken

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by icechicken » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:04 pm

jkander31 wrote:Is it still considered K-JD if I had to work full-time to get myself through college?
Of course. All the term means is that you are going straight from college to law school. But the work experience will make your resume a lot stronger than most 22-year-olds'.

jkander31

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by jkander31 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:25 pm

icechicken wrote:
jkander31 wrote:Is it still considered K-JD if I had to work full-time to get myself through college?
Of course. All the term means is that you are going straight from college to law school. But the work experience will make your resume a lot stronger than most 22-year-olds'.
Oh okay. Thank you

pghpens

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by pghpens » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Anyone else feeling weirdly nervous thinking about possible JS2s tomorrow?

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dm1683

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by dm1683 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:07 pm

pghpens wrote:Anyone else feeling weirdly nervous thinking about possible JS2s tomorrow?
yup

Even though my JS1 was in january so I probably won't be in this round of decisions anyway.

staggeringelephant

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by staggeringelephant » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:09 pm

I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...

joooookchang

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by joooookchang » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:26 pm

staggeringelephant wrote:I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...
Same situation and freaking out atm. Hope everything goes well for us kjds. :(

dm1683

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by dm1683 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:16 pm

joooookchang wrote:
staggeringelephant wrote:I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...
Same situation and freaking out atm. Hope everything goes well for us kjds. :(
Also freaking out, and my lsat is two points lower. Starting to think Mich/Penn/Duke with $$$ is the best I will swing this cycle. Nothing to complain about of course, but when you're expecting to clean house bc that's what everyone keeps telling you will happen, reality can be sobering.

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14141453

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by 14141453 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:36 pm

dm1683 wrote:
joooookchang wrote:
staggeringelephant wrote:I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...
Same situation and freaking out atm. Hope everything goes well for us kjds. :(
Also freaking out, and my lsat is two points lower. Starting to think Mich/Penn/Duke with $$$ is the best I will swing this cycle. Nothing to complain about of course, but when you're expecting to clean house bc that's what everyone keeps telling you will happen, reality can be sobering.
This cycle has been rough so far for a lot of people, but that can be looked at in a number of ways. The fact that there are multiple 3.9x/173+ candidates who are in this position genuinely gives me more confidence than I would have otherwise, since it would be historically bizarre for lots people with those stats to get rejected by anyone outside of T3. Columbia's first week of RD admits seems a bit smaller than last year's, so they may just be switching their timing up. Looking at all the waitlists Chicago handed out makes me think they might be starting to worry about yield, especially given what I perceived to be the unusually optimistic tone of the waitlist email, where they basically asked us to submit a why Chicago if we hadn't already. December JS2 wave was tiny. Overall I'm still feeling optimistic

pghpens

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by pghpens » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:48 pm

14141453 wrote:
dm1683 wrote:
joooookchang wrote:
staggeringelephant wrote:I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...
Same situation and freaking out atm. Hope everything goes well for us kjds. :(
Also freaking out, and my lsat is two points lower. Starting to think Mich/Penn/Duke with $$$ is the best I will swing this cycle. Nothing to complain about of course, but when you're expecting to clean house bc that's what everyone keeps telling you will happen, reality can be sobering.
This cycle has been rough so far for a lot of people, but that can be looked at in a number of ways. The fact that there are multiple 3.9x/173+ candidates who are in this position genuinely gives me more confidence than I would have otherwise, since it would be historically bizarre for lots people with those stats to get rejected by anyone outside of T3. Columbia's first week of RD admits seems a bit smaller than last year's, so they may just be switching their timing up. Looking at all the waitlists Chicago handed out makes me think they might be starting to worry about yield, especially given what I perceived to be the unusually optimistic tone of the waitlist email, where they basically asked us to submit a why Chicago if we hadn't already. December JS2 wave was tiny. Overall I'm still feeling optimistic
Agreed, and there was (at least) one KJD who got a JS2 back in December, so I'm not particularly worried atm, though I will be if I am passed up this wave. Had JS1 2 months ago, also KJD above both 75ths.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by april_ludgate » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:56 pm

dm1683 wrote:
joooookchang wrote:
staggeringelephant wrote:I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...
Same situation and freaking out atm. Hope everything goes well for us kjds. :(
Also freaking out, and my lsat is two points lower. Starting to think Mich/Penn/Duke with $$$ is the best I will swing this cycle. Nothing to complain about of course, but when you're expecting to clean house bc that's what everyone keeps telling you will happen, reality can be sobering.


Yuup. When I got a 180, everyone was like “have fun at Yale/Harvard!” Now, even though I’ve raised my GPA to 3.95, my chances at the T5 as a k-jd appear to be narrower than people kept telling me. Columbia ghosting me has been especially worrying. Sigh. If only I could have applied last cycle

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by radio1nowhere » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:02 pm

joooookchang wrote:
staggeringelephant wrote:I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...
Same situation and freaking out atm. Hope everything goes well for us kjds. :(
FWIW: Stopping by this thread to say that I'm a c/o 2018 KJD with similar stats who was waitlisted at Chicago/Columbia/Penn but accepted to H and S. Don't needlessly stress yourselves out trying to read the tea leaves!

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pghpens

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by pghpens » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:20 pm

april_ludgate wrote:
dm1683 wrote:
joooookchang wrote:
staggeringelephant wrote:I was super confident going into this cycle 3.9x/175+/KJD.
But being waitlisted at Chicago and not hearing back from Columbia has wrecked my confidence...
I'm super nervous about the next JS2 wave...
Same situation and freaking out atm. Hope everything goes well for us kjds. :(
Also freaking out, and my lsat is two points lower. Starting to think Mich/Penn/Duke with $$$ is the best I will swing this cycle. Nothing to complain about of course, but when you're expecting to clean house bc that's what everyone keeps telling you will happen, reality can be sobering.


Yuup. When I got a 180, everyone was like “have fun at Yale/Harvard!” Now, even though I’ve raised my GPA to 3.95, my chances at the T5 as a k-jd appear to be narrower than people kept telling me. Columbia ghosting me has been especially worrying. Sigh. If only I could have applied last cycle
Same LSAT as you and similar anxieties, but I REALLY would not freak out haha. There has only been one JS2 wave so far and early interviewees with strong stats regularly get accepted in Jan or even Feb. I wouldn't be surprised if you find yourself very happy tomorrow!

TomLawSchool

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by TomLawSchool » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:34 pm

Just curious, what time does the JS2 wave start? and how long is it?

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appind

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by appind » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:39 pm

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by etramak » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:57 pm

appind wrote:anyone know how to see js1->js2 rate for different number categories at lawschoolnumbers.com?
Don't think its possible people only self report JS1s in like the personal info section or something like thar

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by jkander31 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:49 pm

TomLawSchool wrote:Just curious, what time does the JS2 wave start? and how long is it?
Some of us are speculating that it might be tomorrow, but it is also possible that it won't be tomorrow. Nonetheless, the duration of the wave can be 30 minutes to several hours depending on the size of the wave.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by zhyunjc » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:57 pm

jkander31 wrote:
TomLawSchool wrote:Just curious, what time does the JS2 wave start? and how long is it?
Some of us are speculating that it might be tomorrow, but it is also possible that it won't be tomorrow. Nonetheless, the duration of the wave can be 30 minutes to several hours depending on the size of the wave.
What was the reasoning for each side?

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by Llewellyon » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:42 am

jkander31 wrote:
TomLawSchool wrote:Just curious, what time does the JS2 wave start? and how long is it?
Some of us are speculating that it might be tomorrow, but it is also possible that it won't be tomorrow. Nonetheless, the duration of the wave can be 30 minutes to several hours depending on the size of the wave.
Last year the waves after the first seemed to fall on a Wednesday, so I was assuming this Wednesday.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by april_ludgate » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:26 am

Llewellyon wrote:
jkander31 wrote:
TomLawSchool wrote:Just curious, what time does the JS2 wave start? and how long is it?
Some of us are speculating that it might be tomorrow, but it is also possible that it won't be tomorrow. Nonetheless, the duration of the wave can be 30 minutes to several hours depending on the size of the wave.
Last year the waves after the first seemed to fall on a Wednesday, so I was assuming this Wednesday.
I thought the reason people think it might be tomorrow is because there didn't appear to be any JS1s scheduled for that date

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by etramak » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:56 am

april_ludgate wrote:
Llewellyon wrote:
jkander31 wrote:
TomLawSchool wrote:Just curious, what time does the JS2 wave start? and how long is it?
Some of us are speculating that it might be tomorrow, but it is also possible that it won't be tomorrow. Nonetheless, the duration of the wave can be 30 minutes to several hours depending on the size of the wave.
Last year the waves after the first seemed to fall on a Wednesday, so I was assuming this Wednesday.
I thought the reason people think it might be tomorrow is because there didn't appear to be any JS1s scheduled for that date
That's definitely the case. Anyone know if they had scheduled JS1s on wave days last year?

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by dallinpackard » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:32 am

icechicken wrote:
jkander31 wrote:Is it still considered K-JD if I had to work full-time to get myself through college?
Of course. All the term means is that you are going straight from college to law school. But the work experience will make your resume a lot stronger than most 22-year-olds'.
Does that mean that I would count as a KJD as well even though I took two years after high school to serve a mission before starting college?

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by icechicken » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:38 am

dallinpackard wrote:
icechicken wrote:
jkander31 wrote:Is it still considered K-JD if I had to work full-time to get myself through college?
Of course. All the term means is that you are going straight from college to law school. But the work experience will make your resume a lot stronger than most 22-year-olds'.
Does that mean that I would count as a KJD as well even though I took two years after high school to serve a mission before starting college?
Maybe? Who cares? It's not like the folks in the admissions office have a big rubber stamp with the initials "KJD" that they quench in the blood of unworthy applicants before slamming it down on your application, which is then held to a higher standard. The term is nothing more than a mild pejorative for people who don't have "real-world" experience.

Obviously, taking a gap year or two to work as a missionary, or working through college, or fulfilling a military-service obligation in a country that conscripts, etc., puts one head and shoulders above people who have never known life outside the classroom and, like the denizens of Plato's cave, are thus confined in their perspective.

On the other hand, the above activities generally don't offer the "adulty" experiences and skills that K-JDs stereotypically lack but that come pretty quickly after living on one's own for a few years: Paying bills. Holding a job steadily for months and then years. Getting your landlord to fix the heat. Cultivating friendships and hobbies without the massive social crutch of college.

I'm a fan of Dean Zearfoss' words on the matter:
Q: How important is work experience for those students coming straight out of undergrad? Are students who have had trouble finding internships and held the more "typical" summer jobs (e.g. waiter, bank teller, etc.) at any disadvantage?

A: You’re talking to a dean of admissions who worked as a CVS technician — that was one of my glamorous jobs — and probably my most glamorous was my two years in a butcher shop.

I happen to believe that those jobs taught me more about working-world skills than any other experiences I could have had. I am very impressed by people who have managed to sustain that kind of job, and I feel like they’re going to have had a maturing experience. I’m also impressed though by people who have fancy internships, not because I think that their 8 weeks in the internship probably taught them a ton; it will have taught them something, but usually there’s a lot of vetting that goes on to get those jobs, so that tells me that someone else who sees a lot of applications, a lot of talented young people vetted a group and came up with Student A to be their intern, so that’s impressive.

I would like to see a job where you could have been fired. I’d like to see that you didn’t get fired — or even if you did get fired. Sometimes people get fired, but I think that’s a very important developmental experience for people, that you have a job where you have to please someone else, and where if you don’t, the forces of the private sector are going to throw you out on your rear end. I think that’s really helpful. Even if you got fired I think that really teaches people something.
There are few environments where it is more important to have one's shit together than law school. Ditto for legal practice, especially if you'd been suckered into attending HLS and have a golden millstone of debt hanging around your neck. So the people whose job it is to vet you for law school want proof that you have your shit together. Can you muster such evidence without working after college? Of course. But surviving, even thriving, for a few years out on the open ocean of capitalism is perhaps the best way, and the main deficiency of a K-JD application is that it lacks that warranty.

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Re: Harvard Law c/o 2021 Applicants (2017-2018)

Post by rideagain » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:01 am

I wouldn't be surprised if there's JS2's today but I also wouldn't be surprised if it's not until later in the week. Pretty much any day could be the day.

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